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Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:06:00 -
[1]
So I'm a brand new trader, have only about 5 mill capital. Is it possible to trade with this low base fund? I have: Broker Relations 2 Daytrading 5 Marketing 4 Retail 4 Trade 5
I haven't made much money, only about 1 mill so far. Am i doing something wrong? I only have the money to place 1-2 buy orders and that leaves me with one mill left, then i sell what the buy orders pick up
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Investigador
Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:11:00 -
[2]
You are doing well. 5mill does not allow much room for profit.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:20:00 -
[3]
how do you want to approach trading? as something you spend hours working on? or something you spend a few minutes here and there checking up on?
how much profit/turnover are you doing right now?
are you doing anything to supplement your trading until you get a good grasp on it? i.e. mining, ratting, missioning, et cetera...
i'm hoping you're not in jita. assuming you're not in some huge trade hub thing like the monster that is jita... do a little ratting, see what sort of loot drops. after you notice a pattern, put up some el cheapo buy orders for those type items; then resell them for what the market will bear. heck, maybe fill a hauler with them and make 200-1000% profit at a trade hub.
just messing around with say a dozen orders, i can fill up 8 buy orders, combine those into 4 sell orders and turn a good 50-300% profit a day with maybe 10-25 minutes a work a day.
now i've got other buys/sells that take a little effort, and sometimes my standard dozen has to be tweaked/changed out; but, it's very possible to make 50% profit on all your stock on a daily basis, with little actual "work" involved. there may be a bit of time involved in researching out where you want to set up shop and what items you want to buy/sell; but it's not hard to find places where there is little competition, or where the competition is rather friendly (i.e. the other guys only update their orders once a week or so).
i'm rambling. hope this helps. if you have any questions, shoot me an evemail and i'll try to help out.
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Banni Vinda
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:25:00 -
[4]
1 mil return on 5 mil capital is 20% return. That's not bad going at all. The tricky bit is keeping that rate of return as 5 mil becomes 50 mil, then 500 mil, then...
The most basic rule (which I'm sure you've figured already) is of course buy low, sell high. How much of a gap there is between low and high depends on you, the time you are prepared to put in, a bit of luck, keeping records (Excel is your friend), how good you are at spotting patterns, and a number of other aspects.
If you haven't already, run missions (and train up a few social skills) to improve your standing with the corp where you set up your orders. This will help to reduce your fees a little further. It will also bring in a little more capital to help. It will also provide an important thing which is vital to a trader: knowledge of how people play this game we call EVE. Think about what you need when you run your missions. Chance are, other people might need the same. Does this give you an edge you can trade on?
If you're looking to turn that 5 mil into 100 mil overnight, you won't do it. (Well unless you get lucky and find a mis-priced order you can capitalise on.) Just stick at it and you'll get there eventually.
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Rhiraven
Gallente Epic Empire Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.14 22:11:00 -
[5]
I personally started trading at about 8m. I began with an Iteron mk3, hauling around NPC traderoutes with Eve-Central.com price lists. When I hit 12m, I found a trade hub and started trading in modules and minerals that were familiar to me.
In three weeks I had 200m.
So, yes, I would say that it's possible. -
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.10.14 22:37:00 -
[6]
The important bit at that stage is to maximize against required investment. You're probably going to run out of cash much more quickly than you're going to run out of time / cargo space.
So make sure to evaluate the different things you could be doing in terms of profit/isk "tied up."
Later, that'll probably change, but for now, optimize for your most scarce resource.
Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.10.14 23:04:00 -
[7]
At the 5 mil level you're not really trading, you're basically hauling stuff from point A to point B. I guess some may consider this trading, but it's more grunt work. Trading comes when you have other people doing the grunt work and you making the money off of them.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Idrift
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2007.10.14 23:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Idrift on 14/10/2007 23:11:25 Sounds like you are doing just fine for a start. Just remember that the more money you have the more you can make so keep plowing profits back into more/bigger trades. Hold of on the fancy new ship or named mods as long as possible. The main things I would recommend:
Keep raising the trade skills, I notice you don't have accounting listed. Get it going fast and get broker relations going to, both up to 4. Daytrading 5 is a bit of overkill in my opinion but too late to change it now. Margin trading was a God send for me starting out (puts less of your cash in market escrow).
As others have said, study your market. Also be flexible. There are thousands (not kidding here) of things to trade so don't get attached to certain items if competition gets heavy and your margin shrinks to nothing.
Also as stated, do mission running to raise your faction with the station you are going to be placing orders out of. It will also help if you get into refining/reprocessing.
And finally, congrats for not asking where the hubs are or what you should be trading in.
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Gunner O'Buachalla
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.14 23:27:00 -
[9]
I'm a relative noob at trading myself (2 months played and 200 million in capital) but I'm a little farther along the path than you so I'll share a sip from my meager cup of experience.
"It takes money to make money"
5 million in capital will make for very slow growth if player-trading is your only surce of income. Build up a fatter wallet with some mission running and NPC trading.
Mission running, in addition to putting cash in your wallet, has the additional benefit of providing you with looted ammo and modules to use for market research to see what you can trade in for good profit.
Hint: A Salvager module is your friend.
With some mission cash in your wallet, you can now add NPC trading to your mix of income sources. There are a handful of NPC produced items that you can trade in that will return 20%-25% profit on less than 10 milion invested for just driving your Iteron around the region. It's actually possible to double a small investment hauling Garbage :)
You'll very quickly outgrow NPC trading once you've piled up enough cash to get serious about player-trading. Although I still trade in one NPC product every other day or so that returns 20 million plus on a 100 million investment for one load :P
Hint: Do NOT fly cargo through low-sec space if you can't afford to lose it all.
Hint: If you insist on traveling through low-sec space with all your eggs in an Iteron, train for agilty (quick alignment); give up som cargo expanders to equip TWO Warp Core Stabilizers and an Inertial Stabilizer; keep shuttles in adjoining high-sec systems for scouting ahead; set up, ahead of time with your shuttle, bookmarks in the low-sec space more than 150km out from the gates. Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who do not. |
Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:01:00 -
[10]
Well this is a trader alt... i have a main that runs missions/pvps and i started this character so i could make a lot more money as I found myself running into a low budget.
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jackie Lor'Aul Well this is a trader alt... i have a main that runs missions/pvps and i started this character so i could make a lot more money as I found myself running into a low budget.
Give yourself something decent to start with like say 100m instead of 5m. You'll go a lot farther. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:08:00 -
[12]
Well my main can only run level 1s :/
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Oron
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Posted - 2007.10.15 03:44:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Oron on 15/10/2007 03:44:56
Originally by: Jackie Lor'Aul Well my main can only run level 1s :/
Missions sux. :D You are doing fine. If you dont mind hauling (or paying someone who dos it for you) take a look at the cross region mineral market. If you dont mind (heigh) risk try this.
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Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.15 03:56:00 -
[14]
Well I was actually planning on training for a freighter once I get the learning skills up.
Currently I'm training those in the day time and broker relations/a couple other trading skills at night.
Is there a way to view prices in two regions?
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.10.15 04:04:00 -
[15]
Get your social skills up to get past the hump of level 1 mission's otherwise it takes forever. Once you hit L2's its a lot easier to accrue standings. Level 1's are like a trap for newbs. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:18:00 -
[16]
Go to jita. Put a buy order up for trit at best station buy (say 3.04). (make sure sell is above this). It will fill within about 10 minutes as long as you remain on top.
Then put the best sell price (say 3.52) and make sure you keep the best sell in station. Within about another 10 minutes your item will sell. Utilising 5m of capital you have just:
Purchased 1,644,736 units of trit = 5,000,000 Sold 1,644,736 units of trit = 5,789,470 Net profit = 789,470 or 15.7% return on capital in a 20 minute window.
Rinse and repeat, and this time tomorrow you will come in here telling us about how you have 50m capital to work with.
It doesn't just restrict itself to tritanium. Any item in Jita has this capability. The idea is to find the items that have the quickest turnover or the largest associated trades.
This may be ships, minerals, etc.
Dealing with such small amounts of capital (5m to 50m) you should have no problem managing this trade without ever undocking from station.
Good luck. Feel free to send me 5% of your incurred profits after 24 hours if it works
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:26:00 -
[17]
Do you not have any friends in game?
Bum 50 million and use Ricdic's tactic. You should be able to pay them back in less than a day.
Hell, launch a 7 day bond issue in here saying this is what you plan on doing. Some chum here with more money than sense will back for for the jollies alone. You'd only need to offer a 3% return and your capital base would be 10x what you are working with now.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.15 07:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 15/10/2007 06:30:37 Do you not have any friends in game?
Will you be my friend Taikun
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.15 07:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ricdic Will you be my friend Taikun
Depends... do you really want the universal scorn and hatred of those 'regular posters' in here?
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Rhiraven
Gallente Epic Empire Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.15 12:15:00 -
[20]
Aren't you the ****head who can't tell the difference between a defunct webpage and an isk sale advertisement? -
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bluejeansandpudding
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:14:00 -
[21]
Keep hauling while you are online. When you get offline put up a few buy orders first.
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Taikun on 15/10/2007 22:56:13
Originally by: Rhiraven Edited by: Rhiraven on 15/10/2007 16:10:22 Aren't you the ****head who can't tell the difference between a defunct webpage and an isk sale advertisement?
Edit: talking to Taikun
1. You are a foul mouth potty mouth who deserves to be removed from this game, and life itself. 2. Shar has been promoting a webpage in his bio that promotes ISK for cash. I care not a fig that it was "defunct" or not. Shar was promoting an activity that was against the EULA and that is not under dispute. He has his excuses, but that does not forgive the behaviour. 3. You have a beef with me personally? Fine.. go ahead and dig your eyes out with a couple of forks. Don't come in these forums and derail somebodys thread just so you can feel all important saying a naughty word. It reminds me of a 4 year old dropping the F-Bomb. You might have a smile on your face but it is going to be smacked off by a mommy (Moderator) sooner or later. 4. Finally, your signature file exceeds the allowed dimentions of these forums. What makes you so extra special that you can ignore the forums rules at your whim?
Much love, Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.16 00:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 15/10/2007 06:30:37 Do you not have any friends in game?
I have no friends :(
Ricdic, I have a lot of questions about your tactic.
And about the hauling: From the guides ive read, is hauling really required?
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Galgorth
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Posted - 2007.10.16 00:55:00 -
[24]
Buy a 90 day GTC for $30
Sell it for 400 million ISK (or whatever they're going for these days)
You now have a very comfortable starting amount of capital.
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Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.16 02:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jackie Lor'Aul Well my main can only run level 1s :/
Train connections 4 and you'll magically be able to run mid-quality level 2 missions right away without doing any of those level 1 ones that pay nothing. I'd suggest low sec or 0.0 ratting though if you got a few million skills points on that char already. Kill a few 0.0 battleships in your cruiser and make 10-20 mil an hour, then give your trade alt some more ISK to trade with because 5 mil is very limiting.
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Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:36:00 -
[26]
Quote: Ricdic, I have a lot of questions about your tactic.
There is nothing else you need to know. I will test my tactic now, starting with 5m capital and see what I can turn it into within 2 hours with zero undocking, and zero stock on hand. Should be interesting
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Daeva Vios
Ardent Adversary Anvil.
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Galgorth Buy a 90 day GTC for $30
Sell it for 400 million ISK (or whatever they're going for these days)
You now have a very comfortable starting amount of capital.
Actually, this is not a terrible suggestion really. If you are a successful trader (if you can at least double the 400m in a month, that is) it could be the last $30 you ever spend on the game.
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Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.16 17:49:00 -
[28]
Well ricdic, I'm making very low returns, in the range of maybe 100k per buy/sold. Of course I'm not in Jita. Is jita really that much bigger than Hek, or Rens?
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Rhiraven
Gallente Epic Empire Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.16 18:15:00 -
[29]
Depending on your investment, 100k per item may not be bad.
I am personally fine with trading high amounts of low-profit short-term sales. The only danger I watch out for is when the profit margin becomes too low (I cut off at about 7% usually, depending on the item, sometimes more) because there is danger of the sell price dropping below your initial buy price.
Sometimes the risk of this loss is not enough to deter me from trading in a particular item. Recently one particular mod was selling extremely fast for a 5% margin, but I stuck with it and made a boatload due to lack of competition. Other times I stick with my gut and don't make the buy if it's too close. On the occasion, I've lost up to 5 million on a buy order (but this has been offset by the other buy orders compensating).
In my opinion, it is usually better to just swallow a loss than to stop trading a high-turnover item. The lost profits from pulling out of a market or searching for a new one is usually much greater than the measely 5 million loss from one 30-50 item purchase gone sour. However, I'd say 75% of the time I've gone with my gut and pulled my isk out I've saved it from a dire fate.
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Jackie Lor'Aul
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Posted - 2007.10.16 18:20:00 -
[30]
Okay, one more question. All my trit playing has lowered the price of trit by .01 continually where I am selling. Is there a way to manipulate the markets to make that rise?
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