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Draydin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.16 05:43:00 -
[1]
So.... My brother and I were out doing a lvl 4 mission today in our battleships. There is nothing new there, we have done it many times. But today, concord decided to come out and blow up my brother mid-mission for reasons that niether of us can figure out.
To start off, we both think it is somehow related to a large armor repair drone. We have done hundreds of missions together without ever seeing concord. But for this mission my brother decided to try out a new armor repair drone and see if it worked as advertised. It seems likely that these 2 events are somehow related.
So heres what happened:
1. I warp in, get agro from the pops, and turn on my armor hardeners. (like normal) 2. My brother warps in, and turns on his remote armor repairer. (like normal) 3. We proceed to kill for a little while, as the frigates close in, we send out our drones. (like normal) 4. My brother sends his 1 repair drone to repair me, and gets a message asking if he is sure. 5. He clicks yes, and the little guy comes over to repair me. So far, it is working fine. 6. A group pops, and agros one of my drones, I manage to recall him in time, but he took armor damage. 7. About 15 or 20 minutes later, everything is dead except for 3 battleships that are 85 km away; it seems they never agroed. 8. We both recall our drones and start flying for the BS off in the distance. 9. I decide to leave my damaged drone out to see if his armor repair drone could fix my drone's armor damage. 10. He launches his armor repair drone 11. About 1 second later (before any commands were givin to the repair drone) his speakers say 'your security status has been lowered'. 12. Concord comes in and blows up my brothers battleship.
So.... is there something I am missing? What would make Concord come and blow my brother up? He has the friendly fire warning turned on, so its not like he accidently shot me. And there was nobody else anywhere in the area. If anything you would think concord would attack when the repair drone was sent after me the first time, they wouldnt wait for the drone to be returned and sent out again.
We sent in a petition, but we didnt really know what to put in there. Should I say that the armor repair drone sabotaged me?
Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks. Pillazo > Thats crazy! Draydin > Crazy like an amarr! Pillazo > amarr arent crazy... Drayin > O |
Artemis Dragmire
Deadspace Armada Lost Children of Eve
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Posted - 2007.10.16 05:48:00 -
[2]
was anything near your brother and aggressing him?
I don't generally use repping drones in missions, but I've heard tales of repping drones going off to "attack" aggressors (rats) automatically just like combat drones, and causing a concord-duken.
Basically if you had somehow accidentally remote repped the rats, you get concorded.
Most likely what happened is somehow a rat got remote repped. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the concord attack.
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Draydin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.16 06:07:00 -
[3]
So, launching a repair drone with a NPC rat targeted will get you blown up?
That seems like a major bug.
Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks. Pillazo > Thats crazy! Draydin > Crazy like an amarr! Pillazo > amarr arent crazy... Drayin > O |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.10.16 09:40:00 -
[4]
You would have thought that with penalties as harsh as CONCORD that the supplier of the software would make sure that bit is bug free, but this is not the case.
If you are in High Security and most especially if you use drones you simply have to accept that in the end CONCORD will skull **** you, your newborn daughter, your grandmothers decaying corpse and your ******** brother.
I realise this is a rather graphic way of explaining the situation, but without illustration, CCP are highly, highly unlikely to ever consider that maybe just maybe the software has bugs in it.
Of course, CCP have hired a legion of fanboiz, called GMs to protect them from reports of errors in software. Frankly no software guy who is making enough money to fund his penchant for opium and women ever wants to hear the word "bug". All he requires is the USENET community (or wherever the cool kids have gone) patting him on the back for shaving 2 cpu cycles off some standard algorithm. And opiates and women.
Moderation in Five. Four. Three. Two. One.
-- Any views or opinions expressed are only the ones I want to ram down your throat. |
Asharaak
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Draydin
7. About 15 or 20 minutes later, everything is dead except for 3 battleships that are 85 km away; it seems they never agroed. 8. We both recall our drones and start flying for the BS off in the distance. 9. I decide to leave my damaged drone out to see if his armor repair drone could fix my drone's armor damage. 10. He launches his armor repair drone
Quick question for you - in the time between #7 and #10 did the remaining BS aggro your brother? i.e was he being aggressed by the npc when he released his repair drone?
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Xtreem
Gallente Naughty 40 Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:25:00 -
[6]
happened to me when i was trying to get some cash together.
My alt had his drones out, i was on the OTHER screen, and for some reason the drones attacked my alt lol, alt Died in his domi, CCP said they could find no issue.
oh well easy come easy go :)
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:39:00 -
[7]
It's not a bug, it's a 'feature'.
Only suggestion I have is to not use support drones in high-sec.
Yeah, it's ********, but until CCP does something (like put in, say, a warning box like every other CONCORDable offense has) that's your only real option.
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Asharaak
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xtreem and for some reason the drones attacked my alt lol
A corp mate of mine lost his ship when his logistics drones attacked some npc's. He was alone, no other people involved (had combat drones as well, but released the wrong ones). Says he didn't give his drones any orders.
We know that under certain circumstances, drones will automatically aggress.
My guess is that for some reason (or maybe under certain circumstances) the logistics drones are following the same rules as combat drones and aggressing something - which is then classed as 'assisting criminals' - which in turn is followed by the inevitable visit from the local Concord.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:49:00 -
[9]
Now if I read this correctly it is just an example of software entropy.
The repair drone was launched and idle when an NPC aggressed. So the repair drone behaved like any drone and went to bash the NPC.
Of course this is totally the wrong thing for a repair drone to do. But in the past all you did was recall the repair drone and all was good.
But because some uber piwats thought is was great to repair mission NPCs and so get the mission runner killed that way, a change was made so that repairing NPCs would result in a Concord killing.
So now the annoying but non-fatal repair drone agressing bug becomes a critical ship loss bug.
Bug report it and petition for the ship loss.
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Major Death
Caldari Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.10.16 10:57:00 -
[10]
From personal experience, don't use repair drones on missions in high sec. While very, very rate, it is possible for the drone 'AI' to start reparing NPCs and trigger a Concording. Also I have also been present when someone died while trying to use the repair drones on a ' friendly' non-corp mate (who was in the gang), and got Concorded for his troubles.
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) |
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Draydin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.16 19:10:00 -
[11]
Well, CCP responded to the petition and said that 'nothing unusual occured'.
I dont know about CCP, but i think that concord blowing up my brother for no reason is rather unusual. Is there anyway to re-petition this, or appeal it in some manner?
Its not really the money thats the problem, after insurance the loss is about 80 million. That can be made up in a good afternoon. The problem is that concord blew up my brother's ship which was a gift from a good friend. Its rather frustrating when your first battleship was blown up by Concord for no reason, and CCP doesnt seem to think thats a problem.
Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks. Pillazo > Thats crazy! Draydin > Crazy like an amarr! Pillazo > amarr arent crazy... Drayin > O |
Seleucus
Gallente STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.16 19:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Draydin Well, CCP responded to the petition and said that 'nothing unusual occured'.
I dont know about CCP, but i think that concord blowing up my brother for no reason is rather unusual. Is there anyway to re-petition this, or appeal it in some manner?
Its not really the money thats the problem, after insurance the loss is about 80 million. That can be made up in a good afternoon. The problem is that concord blew up my brother's ship which was a gift from a good friend. Its rather frustrating when your first battleship was blown up by Concord for no reason, and CCP doesnt seem to think thats a problem.
Have the petition escalated to a senior GM. You shouldn't have to stand for this kind of ****e.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.10.16 19:29:00 -
[13]
concord coming because you rep npcs in high sec is indeed intended
however, until drones FINALLY get fixed (been holding my breath for 2.5 years) this change is a ship lose waiting to happen.
you can petition it, bu**** unlikely youll get anything back. logs will just show you remote repped something, which is exceedingly easy to do by accident to the wrong target.
they also need to change the whole logistics interface so it doesnt use the same targeting interface weapons use. but heres to dreaming.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Draydin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.16 19:44:00 -
[14]
How do I escelate the petition to a senior GM?
Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks. Pillazo > Thats crazy! Draydin > Crazy like an amarr! Pillazo > amarr arent crazy... Drayin > O |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2007.10.16 20:27:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Butzewutze on 16/10/2007 20:29:27 Hi,
maybe u are interested in my thread. It has almost the same story but i got my ship back via petition.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=611394
Edit:
It seems that CCP is generaly to incompetent to create a bugfree dronesystem... there are bugs over and over about them and they are ingame since the beginning. I had the usual "our logs show nothing" message too, but i dont gave up so quickly. I guess that this is the standard-answer for petitions.
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Gavriel Black
Amarr Disillusioned Perfection Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.16 21:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gavriel Black on 16/10/2007 21:23:17 A couple of weeks ago i lost a bhaal in a lvl 4 to concord for "no" reason. I petitioned it and the GM's refused to return my bhaal 3 times. I asked to have a senior GM involved, and it turned out that a small shield repair drone that i had been using on my noob friend wandered off and repped a rat without any warning... Bit of a pain in the ass really, got my bhaal back eventually.
Edit: typo
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.10.16 21:45:00 -
[17]
Hey guys lets not use a feature of the game in case it causes a bug where we loose our ships.
/sig --->Enter at your own risk<--- |
PhalHell
Minmatar Rubra Libertas Militia
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Posted - 2007.10.16 21:47:00 -
[18]
Quote from the latest patch says it all :
Exploit Fixes
CONCORD CONCORD officers will now drop the donuts and immediately deploy with the intention of smoking your criminal derriFre if you remote repair criminal NPCs. They will no longer set up a roadblock at the next stargate and wait for you.
It is ment to be against griefers....
The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my corps, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary.
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.16 21:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Paulo Damarr Hey guys lets not use a feature of the game in case it causes a bug where we loose our ships.
I blame it on wiping carebear butt to begin with.
Wouldn't have an issue if we didn't have to code up a bunch of ridiculous AI...
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Felzius
Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.16 23:28:00 -
[20]
Just do like me, and stay docked while training for a raven. Drones are ******* scary doublesided blades flying TOO close to your ship. And concord is just waiting for something to happen.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.16 23:33:00 -
[21]
no sympathy to the noobs who thought to aid the pirates in their own destruction
I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear
Someone found Jesus, please buff cloaking! |
Draydin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.17 03:00:00 -
[22]
Ok, so we repetitioned it, and CCP says that my brother got concorded becuase he attacked me.
Wouldnt this trigger a warning first? He has accidently targeted me many times, and he has always gotten a warning. Also, I never saw him shoot me. So is CCP just making this up because they dont want to admit there is a problem with the repair drones, or has the repair drone somehow over-written the warning messages?
Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks. Pillazo > Thats crazy! Draydin > Crazy like an amarr! Pillazo > amarr arent crazy... Drayin > O |
Druadan
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.10.17 03:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Draydin Ok, so we repetitioned it, and CCP says that my brother got concorded becuase he attacked me.
Wouldnt this trigger a warning first? He has accidently targeted me many times, and he has always gotten a warning. Also, I never saw him shoot me. So is CCP just making this up because they dont want to admit there is a problem with the repair drones, or has the repair drone somehow over-written the warning messages?
Elevate it to a senior GM. It's the only way to get to the bottom of it. I swear the regular GMs don't even play the game, some of the answers I've got back from petitions.
### I nearly finish carriers, and they nerf it. I nearly finish Amarr recons, and they make them useless. Vagabond pilots beware... I have bought Minmatar Cruiser. |
Lord XSiV
Amarr Mystery Machine Builders
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Posted - 2007.10.17 04:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Druadan
Originally by: Draydin Ok, so we repetitioned it, and CCP says that my brother got concorded becuase he attacked me.
Wouldnt this trigger a warning first? He has accidently targeted me many times, and he has always gotten a warning. Also, I never saw him shoot me. So is CCP just making this up because they dont want to admit there is a problem with the repair drones, or has the repair drone somehow over-written the warning messages?
Elevate it to a senior GM. It's the only way to get to the bottom of it. I swear the regular GMs don't even play the game, some of the answers I've got back from petitions.
I had the same scenario happen - initial GM rejected and now it has been escalated. So I guess we can only hope that they clue in to the issue.
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Artemis Dragmire
Deadspace Armada Lost Children of Eve
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Posted - 2007.10.17 07:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Draydin Ok, so we repetitioned it, and CCP says that my brother got concorded becuase he attacked me.
Wouldnt this trigger a warning first? He has accidently targeted me many times, and he has always gotten a warning. Also, I never saw him shoot me. So is CCP just making this up because they dont want to admit there is a problem with the repair drones, or has the repair drone somehow over-written the warning messages?
Odd, are you not in the same corp?
If you ARE in the same corp your brother can attack you all he wants. Note, I said CORP, not Alliance. (there's a differance)
If you are not in the same corp and he remote repped you, shot you, or did anything to you in general then yes, he would get concorded.
And yes, it SHOULD trigger a warning.
As others have suggested, reply to the petition you submitted and ask that it be escalated to a senior GM.
Don't hold your breath though, I would bet money that your brother's ship is gone for good and CCP will tell him to suck it up and deal with it.
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Bodwad
Gallente British Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.17 07:46:00 -
[26]
I notice they have said Revalations 3 has improved drones. lets hope it fixes this odd bug.
I hope CCP refunds your brother in some way too. Its an odd bug lol
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