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goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.20 07:07:00 -
[91]
Edited by: goodby4u on 20/10/2007 07:12:28
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: goodby4u I cant talk for people with no skills but ive worked out two setups on EFT with no skillpoints,the abaddon does 40 less dps but with a buffer setup(both have 2 plates 2 named eanms 1 DCU)the abddon has 1k more armor...Now its also a given that the abaddon setup was quite easy to fit,the mega i was unable to pack an mwd without an rcu or electrons instead of ions(which would pretty much make the mega have the same dps)... Added to that the abaddon has bonuses that are more affective then the mega(ie turret damage bonus on 8 turrets instead of 7 and resistance bonus)....Now if it were a hyperion vs abaddon with the low skillpoint setup it might win,but thats purely because it can tank actively better then the abaddon could pump out with such a lack of skillpoints.
Just curious, care to post those two setups? And how fast would that Abaddon cap out?
The real test here would be an "average pilot" setup. A mix of best named T1 and T2 with skills to support it, decent supporting skill set. It's going to produce a lot of anecdotal evidence (Running T2 reppers -vs- a ship with best named T1 guns or vice-versa), but across a large enough data set you'll start to see patterns. Who here is willing to bet against the premise that the data set will support that Amarr ships piloted by a mediocre pilot are typically outclassed by equally mediocre pilots flying a similar non-Amarr ship? (Holy run-on sentence Batman!)
Both were cap booster so whenever the abaddon runs out of cap boosters it runs out of shootage.
I cant be arsed to setup something along the lines you are suggesting in EFT,however im not the best bs pilot in the world(all t2 stuff is usable but not the guns yet)and whenever i would dual megas and else on the test server ive won even against t2 setup megas,well unless they pack heavy jamming drones,i hate those
My 3 fittings. (gank) 8x modulated mega pulse. 1x 20km scram 1x fleeting web 1x t2 cap inject 1x sensor booster. 2x RT plates 1x eanm t2 1x damage control t2 3x heatsink t2. (large buffer) 8x modulated mega pulse. 1x 20km scram 1x fleeting web 1x t2 cap inject 1x sensor booster. 3x RT plates 3x eanm t2 1x damage control t2. (gang) 7x modulated pulse 1x solace large rep. 2x cap injector t2(not in desperate need but i pack two so i have 5 extra charges)1x 20km scram 1x fleeting web. 3x RT plate 2x eanm t2 1x damage control t2 1x heatsink t2. All of the above have trimark rigs. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.10.20 07:18:00 -
[92]
From my playtime on the Armageddon Day thing in SiSi, testing and re-testing some researched EFT fits and testing them out in single, gang, and at one time a fleet-vs-cap fight near one of Perimeter's planets, most of Amarr's lineup sucks up until BC stage.
Upsides: +Abbadon's fine. Its not meant to be an extended-battle combatant in the first place so dont bother trying to make it cap-neutral. +Armageddon's fine. It has been for so long. +Harbinger is fine. Its a gank-friendly platform, something Amarr needs. +Arbitrator's fine. Its an oddball in the lineup, but it shines because of it.
Downsides: -Frigates suck, Punisher needs to fit other racial weapons just to compete -other cruisers besides the Arbitrator suffer. -Apocalypse needs work so bad it isnt funny. -Laser fitting and cap use, more specifically beam lasers. End of.
Of course, the real test is when I finish my Amarr spec training this coming Feb (T1 ships only) when I can actually give more input other than a single day of insanity. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
cheesyhead
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2007.10.20 08:17:00 -
[93]
Edited by: cheesyhead on 20/10/2007 08:17:29 Man, whining here....
Amarr cant tank and e-war and use guns at the same time, care! my guns kill my cap , care !
i try to look at the bigger picture, people who whine about amarr here are instapopping my ships on tq... Have u guys ever consired amarr should be flown differently? Like, use armor buffs and whalot of damage?. Minmatar cant do that. Amarr has such a sweet optimal range and such nice damage, u actually want them to be capless? If you look into it, every race has a ship to whine about... And in my opinion, the ships most used for (leet) pvp (bc,bs,hacs,cs) contain 1 wonderful amarr ship each. you just need to know how to use it..
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Arvald
Caldari House of Tempers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 09:01:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cikulisuy well im an abaddon pilot, and the only way i can actually maintain cap is to fit 3 CCCs and a whole bunch of cap recharger IIs, (i use pulses because of the ridiculous PG requirements on beams) i cant put a webber or scrammer on because then i cap out in the middle of a fight and die. and i still eventually run out of cap! i use dual injectors sometimes, but you can still run out of charges, and the minmatar bastard is running a dual rep tank with no probs, and he can actually fit ewar /end frustrated rant
stop trying to fit a full rack of tachyons AND a dual rep tank, oh and get yer damn cap skills up sissy --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING forum warrior in training |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.10.20 09:03:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Arvald
Originally by: Cikulisuy well im an abaddon pilot, and the only way i can actually maintain cap is to fit 3 CCCs and a whole bunch of cap recharger IIs, (i use pulses because of the ridiculous PG requirements on beams) i cant put a webber or scrammer on because then i cap out in the middle of a fight and die. and i still eventually run out of cap! i use dual injectors sometimes, but you can still run out of charges, and the minmatar bastard is running a dual rep tank with no probs, and he can actually fit ewar /end frustrated rant
stop trying to fit a full rack of tachyons AND a dual rep tank, oh and get yer damn cap skills up sissy
You're doing it wrong.
Correct reply: "I'm sorry to hear you're having such troubles. Keep at it, and I'm sure you'll see positive results. By the way, I could always swing by and see if I can't help you figure out where the problem lies. Where are you docked ATM?"
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Arvald
Caldari House of Tempers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 09:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Arvald
Originally by: Cikulisuy well im an abaddon pilot, and the only way i can actually maintain cap is to fit 3 CCCs and a whole bunch of cap recharger IIs, (i use pulses because of the ridiculous PG requirements on beams) i cant put a webber or scrammer on because then i cap out in the middle of a fight and die. and i still eventually run out of cap! i use dual injectors sometimes, but you can still run out of charges, and the minmatar bastard is running a dual rep tank with no probs, and he can actually fit ewar /end frustrated rant
stop trying to fit a full rack of tachyons AND a dual rep tank, oh and get yer damn cap skills up sissy
You're doing it wrong.
Correct reply: "I'm sorry to hear you're having such troubles. Keep at it, and I'm sure you'll see positive results. By the way, I could always swing by and see if I can't help you figure out where the problem lies. Where are you docked ATM?"
yeah ypur right, but hey cut me some slack its 4 am and there isnt any caffine anywhere nearby and everyehre taht sells it is closed this late --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING forum warrior in training |
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.20 11:29:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 19/10/2007 23:04:03 I have Energy Op 5, Energy management 5, and amarr BS 5 (along with controlled burst 5). I still cap out quite easily.
Oh btw, does energy skills or controlled burst even matter when boosters are required fits?? I know recharge is not very important in PvP sub-cap)
I think Atius here is opening his mouth without having a clue what he is talking about. gg
Actually, I was refering to the OP - who is complaining about cap on the abaddon.
What I am trying to say is: with max energy skills and cap regulation, not using multi-specs (just use scorch 24/7) and yes, fitting a cap injector - you can squeeze a lot of juice out of your ship.
Of course, MWD is a nono with Amarr (25% cap hit is too high most of the time) and trimark + plate tanking actually does a great deal. I also think a logistics alt to 'tag along' is a solution too :)
But ultimatly, I was refering to the OP, not to you. . .
In anycase, I see the issue, but I also see the best BB in the game for fleet and close range gank. . .so. . .
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.20 15:36:00 -
[98]
Originally by: cheesyhead Edited by: cheesyhead on 20/10/2007 08:17:29 Man, whining here....
Amarr cant tank and e-war and use guns at the same time, care! my guns kill my cap , care !
i try to look at the bigger picture, people who whine about amarr here are instapopping my ships on tq... Have u guys ever consired amarr should be flown differently? Like, use armor buffs and whalot of damage?. Minmatar cant do that. Amarr has such a sweet optimal range and such nice damage, u actually want them to be capless? If you look into it, every race has a ship to whine about... And in my opinion, the ships most used for (leet) pvp (bc,bs,hacs,cs) contain 1 wonderful amarr ship each. you just need to know how to use it..
Amarr whining detected, activate gall/minnie overpowered protection algorithm: (x) step 1) Bring up points that have no bearing or have been disproven ( ) step 2) ignore all facts, bring up range and no ammo use ( ) step 2) Personal attacks (x) step 3) Misdirection ( ) step 4) Leave the thread, alt # 7762 will repeat the process
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.21 17:05:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Arvald
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Arvald
Originally by: Cikulisuy well im an abaddon pilot, and the only way i can actually maintain cap is to fit 3 CCCs and a whole bunch of cap recharger IIs, (i use pulses because of the ridiculous PG requirements on beams) i cant put a webber or scrammer on because then i cap out in the middle of a fight and die. and i still eventually run out of cap! i use dual injectors sometimes, but you can still run out of charges, and the minmatar bastard is running a dual rep tank with no probs, and he can actually fit ewar /end frustrated rant
stop trying to fit a full rack of tachyons AND a dual rep tank, oh and get yer damn cap skills up sissy
You're doing it wrong.
Correct reply: "I'm sorry to hear you're having such troubles. Keep at it, and I'm sure you'll see positive results. By the way, I could always swing by and see if I can't help you figure out where the problem lies. Where are you docked ATM?"
yeah ypur right, but hey cut me some slack its 4 am and there isnt any caffine anywhere nearby and everyehre taht sells it is closed this late
lol, try fitting a full rack of tachies.... hey try fitting a full rack of mega beams.
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Aries Acheron
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.22 03:27:00 -
[100]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Uhm I think you understood my comment wrong.
And btw what sniper fleet has mwds on its battleships? Sounds a bit rtrded to me. And what sniper fleet is active (ie rep) tanking its sniping battleships instead of passive plate tanking them?
Go look at his PvP fits in the other thread. He has no clue what he is talking about.
What sniper fleet fits MWDs? How about oh... All of them? MWD is a REQUIREMENT in pretty much any Fleet I've ever been in. It's great in case of trouble on a gate or if the enemy drops bubbles into your formation. The uses are seriously endless. ~~~
Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.22 03:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Aries Acheron
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Uhm I think you understood my comment wrong.
And btw what sniper fleet has mwds on its battleships? Sounds a bit rtrded to me. And what sniper fleet is active (ie rep) tanking its sniping battleships instead of passive plate tanking them?
Go look at his PvP fits in the other thread. He has no clue what he is talking about.
What sniper fleet fits MWDs? How about oh... All of them? MWD is a REQUIREMENT in pretty much any Fleet I've ever been in. It's great in case of trouble on a gate or if the enemy drops bubbles into your formation. The uses are seriously endless.
Got space to rent between your ears?
1. Its stupid to let your sniper fleet jump into a gate without a scout checking if its clear. You shouldnt be in a situation where your sniper fleet has to reaproach gates.
2. Think mwd going to save you if you let the enemey warp in on you and bubble you? Trust me if they can warp a suicide bubblemaker into the mids of that fleet they can damn well warp a whole fleet of close range gank BS's too and then youre pretty much dead mwd or not. Learn to lead sniper fleets.
3. Sniper warfare: Snipers dont have great dps so it may take a while to take down targets, so its kinda stupid to waste a slot on a capbooster and run to a station after every fight to fill up the boosters.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 06:27:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 22/10/2007 06:28:21
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Aries Acheron
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Uhm I think you understood my comment wrong.
And btw what sniper fleet has mwds on its battleships? Sounds a bit rtrded to me. And what sniper fleet is active (ie rep) tanking its sniping battleships instead of passive plate tanking them?
Go look at his PvP fits in the other thread. He has no clue what he is talking about.
What sniper fleet fits MWDs? How about oh... All of them? MWD is a REQUIREMENT in pretty much any Fleet I've ever been in. It's great in case of trouble on a gate or if the enemy drops bubbles into your formation. The uses are seriously endless.
Got space to rent between your ears?
1. Its stupid to let your sniper fleet jump into a gate without a scout checking if its clear. You shouldnt be in a situation where your sniper fleet has to reaproach gates.
2. Think mwd going to save you if you let the enemey warp in on you and bubble you? Trust me if they can warp a suicide bubblemaker into the mids of that fleet they can damn well warp a whole fleet of close range gank BS's too and then youre pretty much dead mwd or not. Learn to lead sniper fleets.
3. Sniper warfare: Snipers dont have great dps so it may take a while to take down targets, so its kinda stupid to waste a slot on a capbooster and run to a station after every fight to fill up the boosters.
1. Scouts screw up, it happens, sometimes you need the mwd to do tricky manuvering anyways.
2. You realize sabre can be ontop of snipers 180km away in 20 seconds flat? Thats how you save your fleet, mwd out of bubble.
3. 30 fleet bs firing on 1 guy will kill it very quickly. Its called focus firing. And cap boosters? You're not turning on the mwd constantly, you're only using it to get out of trouble. You really have no clue wtf you're talking about do you? Howabout the fact that every single decent pvp alliance makes mwd on fleet bs a mandatory requirement?
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Soultaker Angel
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Posted - 2007.10.22 08:05:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Soultaker Angel on 22/10/2007 08:06:20 I dont know Somebody notice that you all guys are in repeat mode in the same thread??
Yes amarr do this No amarr dont Pvp? Yes of course ..... silence (they are pvping in Eve Fitting Tool)
Now the alts atack the forum...
He its go to win No he its not... pvp? yes of course ........ Again.. Preparing more alts and EFT sheets
I was wondering.. What a girl need to do For you people stop talking like parrots (repeat mode on) ???? and make some constructive?
And yes i know after reading my answer u will think OMG-im-so-pwned and i will answer you.. kkthx kk? kk
Good morning
Btw sorry i need to do this..
----------------------------------------------------------------- Brainless Who continue the Cicle of this post _________________________________________________________________
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Rutefly
Amarr Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:27:00 -
[104]
Soultaker Angel wins
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:29:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 22/10/2007 06:28:21
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Aries Acheron
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Uhm I think you understood my comment wrong.
And btw what sniper fleet has mwds on its battleships? Sounds a bit rtrded to me. And what sniper fleet is active (ie rep) tanking its sniping battleships instead of passive plate tanking them?
Go look at his PvP fits in the other thread. He has no clue what he is talking about.
What sniper fleet fits MWDs? How about oh... All of them? MWD is a REQUIREMENT in pretty much any Fleet I've ever been in. It's great in case of trouble on a gate or if the enemy drops bubbles into your formation. The uses are seriously endless.
Got space to rent between your ears?
1. Its stupid to let your sniper fleet jump into a gate without a scout checking if its clear. You shouldnt be in a situation where your sniper fleet has to reaproach gates.
2. Think mwd going to save you if you let the enemey warp in on you and bubble you? Trust me if they can warp a suicide bubblemaker into the mids of that fleet they can damn well warp a whole fleet of close range gank BS's too and then youre pretty much dead mwd or not. Learn to lead sniper fleets.
3. Sniper warfare: Snipers dont have great dps so it may take a while to take down targets, so its kinda stupid to waste a slot on a capbooster and run to a station after every fight to fill up the boosters.
1. Scouts screw up, it happens, sometimes you need the mwd to do tricky manuvering anyways.
2. You realize sabre can be ontop of snipers 180km away in 20 seconds flat? Thats how you save your fleet, mwd out of bubble.
3. 30 fleet bs firing on 1 guy will kill it very quickly. Its called focus firing. And cap boosters? You're not turning on the mwd constantly, you're only using it to get out of trouble. You really have no clue wtf you're talking about do you? Howabout the fact that every single decent pvp alliance makes mwd on fleet bs a mandatory requirement?
Im not sure about the other races ships but good luck fitting an amarr BS with and mwd (=severing its recharge and amount) and not fit a cap booster, and even if you fit the cap booster they run out of cap very fast. Are you sure you are flying amarr ships into these sniper fleet battles?
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:41:00 -
[106]
Sorry, Lyria, but he is right. A MWD *is* a requirement for *all* fleet snipers in all major alliances. At least those who tend to win fleet engagements.
The cap problems of lasers do not get better by that, but you'll still do more dps than if you are dead because you were killed in a bubble. The huge survival bonus you get is worth the cap sustainability disadvantage.
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Grytok
HighTech Research
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:53:00 -
[107]
Problem with Cap today is because of the massive HP-boosts in the past.
The longer the fights are lasting, the more Amarr-Laser-Boats get affected /period. .
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.22 12:41:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Aramendel Sorry, Lyria, but he is right. A MWD *is* a requirement for *all* fleet snipers in all major alliances. At least those who tend to win fleet engagements.
The cap problems of lasers do not get better by that, but you'll still do more dps than if you are dead because you were killed in a bubble. The huge survival bonus you get is worth the cap sustainability disadvantage.
Thank you all for proving my point wichever way it is. Its a *requirement* because all races except amarr have no trouble fitting an MWD and keep cap up. Try doing that in an abaddon with tachyons, also fit 800s caps on it and see how many engagements your cargo capacity will last. If the cap problems were equal then you wouldnt see that many mwd fitted sniper fleets. Conclusion? Another reason to buff lasers for their insane cap use. This is funny because the person that started this mwd fitted sniper fleet comment was of the oppinion that amarr is fine.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.22 13:09:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Aramendel on 22/10/2007 13:09:13 You utterly miss the point.
Fact of life is that in 0.0 sniper BS fleets will meet bubbles. It is unavoidable. You cannot scout a cloaked dictor. Nor can you avoid getting probed out at a sniper spot and bubbled within 30 secs.
It happens and it happens constantly. No matter how "good" or "bad" your FCs are. Getting bubbled is about as unavoidable as getting shot at. With a MWD you can run bubbles. Without one you cannot.
Fitting a MWD is no requirement because the other races can do it easier, it is a requirement because without one fleet BS are at a severe disadvantage. Even if both sides are amarr only the side with a MWD will do better.
As said already: The huge survival bonus you get is worth the cap sustainability disadvantage.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.22 13:42:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Goumindong on 22/10/2007 13:44:24
Originally by: Aramendel
Fitting a MWD is no requirement because the other races can do it easier, it is a requirement because without one fleet BS are at a severe disadvantage. Even if both sides are pure amarr the side with MWDs will do better.
This isnt quite true in the direct sense. The side with the MWDs will do worse in any pitched engagement.
But in any engagement where the side with the MWD is at a disadvantage and needs to leave, it will suffer less losses than the side without mwds.
Winning when you have an advantage is not the issue, and winning a bit harder will not make your fleet significantly better. Its being able to get that advantage and reducing disadvantage when you are in a bind that makes a good fleet ship. The difference between losing 2 and losing 10 ships is huge when you must flee. The difference between losing 2 and losing 4 ships is tiny when you dont have to. This is the essense of fleet warfare, and everything revolves around it.
The problems of course for Amarr is that they do not co-inside with that well. If you could stick Amarr in one location where they didnt have to move and fighting an equal force their snipers would be fantastic, doing absolutly amasing dps and good range with decent to plenty of hit points. The penalties from the MWD combined with the way that lasers work and the fitting issues make it very hard to get the fittings good for fleet warfare.
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Soultaker Angel
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Posted - 2007.10.22 13:50:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Soultaker Angel Edited by: Soultaker Angel on 22/10/2007 08:06:20 I dont know Somebody notice that you all guys are in repeat mode in the same thread??
Yes amarr do this No amarr dont Pvp? Yes of course ..... silence (they are pvping in Eve Fitting Tool)
Now the alts atack the forum...
He its go to win No he its not... pvp? yes of course ........ Again.. Preparing more alts and EFT sheets
I was wondering.. What a girl need to do For you people stop talking like parrots (repeat mode on) ???? and make some constructive?
And yes i know after reading my answer u will think OMG-im-so-pwned and i will answer you.. kkthx kk? kk
Good morning
Btw sorry i need to do this..
----------------------------------------------------------------- Brainless Who continue the Cicle of this post _________________________________________________________________
I will quote some wise words.. that some boys missed it
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.22 13:57:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Goumindong This isnt quite true in the direct sense. The side with the MWDs will do worse in any pitched engagement.
If we assume equal conditions - which means both sides bubbled by their respective dictors - both sides will start to loose an equal amount of ships at the start of the engagement. After ~30 secs the MWD side will start to loose far fewer ships since most of their side will be able to warp out if primaried since they should have cleared the bubble by then.
By the time the MWD side will have cap issues ships of their side which have warped out previously will have warped back in again to counter this disadvantage. Which is temporary since the non-MWD side will get the same cap issues not soon after too. Leaving both sides with cap issues, but the MWD side with more ships.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:33:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
More than 3.6 million ships active in EVE. Amount of Caldari spaceships flying in space: 1.2 million Gallente: 1 million Minmatar: 670 thousand Amarr: 635 thousand
Source: Dev blog.
Oh yeah im sure amarr is just fine...
I just want to point out that this is ships *owned* in EVE. Not literally "Active." Show me a statistic that lists the types of ships literally active (meaning the pilot is sitting in them either docked or flying) and I think you'd be on a better track for validity. I am an Amarr/Minmatar pilot and I own many more caldari ships than any other race but I fly Amarr/Minmatar much more often.
Your statistic fails to show those sorts of things =P ---
Put in space whales!
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:41:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Goumindong This isnt quite true in the direct sense. The side with the MWDs will do worse in any pitched engagement.
If we assume equal conditions - which means both sides bubbled by their respective dictors - both sides will start to loose an equal amount of ships at the start of the engagement. After ~30 secs the MWD side will start to loose far fewer ships since most of their side will be able to warp out if primaried since they should have cleared the bubble by then.
By the time the MWD side will have cap issues ships of their side which have warped out previously will have warped back in again to counter this disadvantage. Which is temporary since the non-MWD side will get the same cap issues not soon after too. Leaving both sides with cap issues, but the MWD side with more ships.
The lack of an MWD allows the side without to field tracking computer instead of the MWD and switch a TE for a 1600 plate[or invuln in the case of rokhs]. The side without the MWDs will lose ships much slower and the side with the MWDs, and the side with the MWDs, MWDing out of the bubble will have a hard time hitting ships with their mwd on.[since transversal increases quite high, but sig of the target does not, as well since the opposing ships ought to be manuvering out of the bubble in the opposite direction of the opposing snipers].
This puts the relative transversal of the MWDing side at about 1500m/s and the transversal of the non-mwding side at about 300-400.
A megathron for instance will hit a target about 50% of the time at 400 sig, 1000 transversal at 170/180km this means that its doing 39% of its dps against targets that have larger hit point buffers. Against 1500m/s trans it will hit less than 25% of the time, meaning about 15% dps. I.E. they need to change to tech 1 ammo to even have a chance of dealing dps. Which means low range and dps.
The non-mwding megathrons will hit about 95% of the time.
I maintain that in a pitched battle with equal forces the non-mwding ships will be at an advantage. Its that fleet battles are about perserving yourself when you would lose so that you can fight again.
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Terazuk
Amarr Rogen's Heroes Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:45:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Terazuk on 22/10/2007 14:45:32 I've run a couple of setups myself on EFT and that shows me that on a basic level, cap performance is about equal with the Mega ever-so-slightly ahead by mere seconds, compared to the Abaddon.
but then comparing ships on EFT with 'All lvl 5' skills is not really very accurate.
Originally by: Amarria Black Just curious, care to post those two setups? And how fast would that Abaddon cap out?
The real test here would be an "average pilot" setup. A mix of best named T1 and T2 with skills to support it, decent supporting skill set. It's going to produce a lot of anecdotal evidence (Running T2 reppers -vs- a ship with best named T1 guns or vice-versa), but across a large enough data set you'll start to see patterns. Who here is willing to bet against the premise that the data set will support that Amarr ships piloted by a mediocre pilot are typically outclassed by equally mediocre pilots flying a similar non-Amarr ship? (Holy run-on sentence Batman!)
QFT!
There's the problem right there on a 1-vs-1 paradigm, excellent cap/grid skills are a prerequisite for any Amarr character (lvl 4/5). This is no small time investment and with the legion of other skills you *need* won't be coming around any time soon™ unless you spend the first 3 months of play time only logging on to change skills in a very focused manner and when do new chars ever do that? (alts & returning players notwithstanding)
As for sniper BS requiring MWD as standard (*terms and conditions apply) imo, from a defenders standpoint not so important... as an aggressing fleet, without question necessary as is some kind of tank but it's the price you pay and Amarr pays hard! Generally from a lack of mid-slots and epic grid req's for beams but that's not so bad once you have high skills.
I know while I was < 15m sp I was feeling pretty emo about Amarr now @ > 20M sp I'm feeling pretty upbeat, I just resent the 2 years it took to get there is all
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Alyxa Mahan
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:00:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Grytok Problem with Cap today is because of the massive HP-boosts in the past.
The longer the fights are lasting, the more Amarr-Laser-Boats get affected /period.
But isn't that exactly opposite as it should be? Amarr are known for their heavy armor, good cap (hah!) and ammo-less weapons. Logic says they should do better the longer the fight lasts...
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Soultaker Angel
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:02:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Grytok Problem with Cap today is because of the massive HP-boosts in the past.
The longer the fights are lasting, the more Amarr-Laser-Boats get affected /period.
But isn't that exactly opposite as it should be? Amarr are known for their heavy armor, good cap (hah!) and ammo-less weapons. Logic says they should do better the longer the fight lasts...
They dont CCP dont like Logic
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:41:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Grytok Problem with Cap today is because of the massive HP-boosts in the past.
The longer the fights are lasting, the more Amarr-Laser-Boats get affected /period.
But isn't that exactly opposite as it should be? Amarr are known for their heavy armor, good cap (hah!) and ammo-less weapons. Logic says they should do better the longer the fight lasts...
They are also known for their long range, and if long range weapons are better the longer a fight goes, then the short range ships are utterly useless. Since the shorter a fight is the more important range is due to the way that dps, range and hit points interact.
Such unless amarr lose their range or have really anemic dps, really, really anemic dps, they cant be good with heavy active tanks[I.E. stuff good for longer encounters]. This is why amarr gets resistance bonuses[I.E. hit point buffer, better for remote rep] and Gallente get repair bonuses[I.E. better against lower dps, better for self rep] to extend the strength of both in their respective area.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.23 09:09:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: Grytok Problem with Cap today is because of the massive HP-boosts in the past.
The longer the fights are lasting, the more Amarr-Laser-Boats get affected /period.
But isn't that exactly opposite as it should be? Amarr are known for their heavy armor, good cap (hah!) and ammo-less weapons. Logic says they should do better the longer the fight lasts...
Good cap in conjunction with lasers = amarr not so great cap race, infact the worst = bad for long engagements because we have few mids and that cap boosters is not easy to fit with high laser fittings either.
What mofo runs out of ammo? They are killing a few ships, not a pos.
Logic says boost amarr
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Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2007.10.23 15:11:00 -
[120]
Amen to logic. The one thing that never fails. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The A in Amarr seems to stands for Adapt... |
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