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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.20 16:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DubanFP on 20/10/2007 16:48:33 I'm not saying EVE should definately do this 100%, but i'm just asking who would be in favor of taking measures to return some of EVE's former harshness. This is just a request for player opinions on EVE, not a demand.
Basically at one point you had to warp to objects at 15km instead of 0. People were placing bookmarks 15km behind stargates/outposts/stuff and warping to that which effectively made warp to 0 "but some planning was required". Warp to zero was implimented because large amounts of lag were being caused by those insta bookmarks. This has resulted in shuttles, fast interceptors, and escape pods being nearly invincible unless you catch them in a bubble.
Since then they've added a feature that if you try to warp inside a PoS you will warp to just outside the sphere. What if they used this to force warp to 15km even with Bookmarks? No Bookmark lag, and small ships will regain their vulnerabillity in low-sec again.
Remember this isn't a demand, just a thought. If you don't like it feel free to argue against it, just do it constructively. I just want opinions. ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Admiral Annihilation
Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.20 16:49:00 -
[2]
Even at 15km from the gate it only takes an inty 2-3 seconds before their at the gate and jump. It wouldn't solve anything, and just be the major pain in the ass the WT15 thing was.
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Xannder Phienyx
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.10.20 16:53:00 -
[3]
There was a problem and it was solved in the least disruptive way possible. Most of the complaints I've heard about this change are from predators who simply need to adjust their tactics.
Nothing real will be gained by reverting.
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.20 16:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Admiral Annihilation Even at 15km from the gate it only takes an inty 2-3 seconds before their at the gate and jump. It wouldn't solve anything, and just be the major pain in the ass the WT15 thing was.
I'll admit it has certainly made things easier. The question is do we want easy? That and i'll give you ceptors, but are shuttles escape pods and fast frigates really supposed to be invincible in lowsec? ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.20 16:56:00 -
[5]
they aren't invincible, it only takes 1 or 2 large smartbombs
but really removing wtz wouldnt much hurt the small ships, it would brutalise the larger ones I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear
What do zombies and forum posters have in common? They like to sit about and moan! |
SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.10.20 17:03:00 -
[6]
Why is shuttles and small fast to align frigates being "invincible" a problem?
This proposed change seems counter productive for pirates anyway as I assume it would just mean even less traffic through low sec.
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spurious signal
Caldari Brainiacs
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Posted - 2007.10.20 17:39:00 -
[7]
If you want a harsher EVE there's a much better solution than removing WTZ:
Make lowsec worthwhile again.
If there was more reason for people to operate in lowsec then there'd be more lowsec pvp.
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Atavachron
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Posted - 2007.10.20 17:51:00 -
[8]
There has to be a balance between people who want to gank and people who don't want to be ganked, pushing that balance back in the gankers favour does not make a game hardcore, it makes it annoying.
Besides, it will take a travel specc'd frigate 2-3 seconds to go from 15km to the gate, so smartbombs will be the only thing to get them. Cruisers and larger will once again be complete sniper fodder.
In high-sec empire, the 15km thing was nothing but a vulgar time sink.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.20 17:54:00 -
[9]
We where talking about this on the test server the other day with 1 or 2 Devs, cut along story short, reason why we got warp to 0 was to get rid of all the BMs, from what I understand they caused lag. Once warp to 0 was on TQ, server performance was lot better.
Don't think it had anything to do with making the game easier.
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.20 17:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: DubanFP on 20/10/2007 17:57:30
Originally by: F90OEX We where talking about this on the test server the other day with 1 or 2 Devs, cut along story short, reason why we got warp to 0 was to get rid of all the BMs, from what I understand they caused lag. Once warp to 0 was on TQ, server performance was lot better.
Don't think it had anything to do with making the game easier.
Exactly, I already went over that. What I proposed was a possible workaround to return it to what it was before minus the bookmarks. Basically it would be more of a return to normal with a fix to the original problems then a nerf. ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
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Dr Qu
Caldari Firing Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.20 18:10:00 -
[11]
I dont understand your problem with warp to zero, to be honest. Smart pirates adapt, abandoning trying to gank ships coming to the gate and instead getting them on the otherside, where they have to uncloak and align to the next warp. This is where they are the weakest. Forcing warp to 15 would not be a rebalance. It would be an act of extreme unbalancing. Then pirates would have their pick and chose at both sides of the gate, easily picking off slower ships both at warp to, and warp from.
All I can say is this. As long as bumping you out of alignment works without ship collision damages being implemented, low sec gankers should just learn to accept facts, and adapt their game to catch prey on 'the otherside of the gate'. No ammount of warpcore stabilizer will help you from a bumper knocking you out of alignment.
:: "In hullintegrity we trust" :: |
Zy Nox
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Posted - 2007.10.20 18:17:00 -
[12]
Warp to 15km was nice.
It gave homefield advantage if you where fighting on your turf you had complete insta sets that definatley worked. If you where on someone elses turf you maybe had no instas, maybe ones bought off escrow (not allways reliable, easy to bust midpoint BM's) or hastily assembled sets by your scouts/personally.
It brought about chases, chasing that guy to the station to try and finish him off under sentry fire, chasing him to the gate, following him through and chasing through the next system.
Now if someone wants to escape then its insta dock at the station, GG. Warp to 0km on a gate, instajump, warp to 0km on a gate in the other system, instajump and GG following that guy if he aligns even a few seconds faster than you.
"meh" There is probably 0% chance of it ever changing back now but I thought warp to 0km was a crap soloution. This is coming from someone who often flew without instas and got melted by his fair share of sniping BS's.
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General Apocalypse
Amarr Ship Research
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Posted - 2007.10.20 19:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 20/10/2007 16:48:33 I'm not saying EVE should definately do this 100%, but i'm just asking who would be in favor of taking measures to return some of EVE's former harshness. This is just a request for player opinions on EVE, not a demand.
Basically at one point you had to warp to objects at 15km instead of 0. People were placing bookmarks 15km behind stargates/outposts/stuff and warping to that which effectively made warp to 0 "but some planning was required". Warp to zero was implimented because large amounts of lag were being caused by those insta bookmarks. This has resulted in shuttles, fast interceptors, and escape pods being nearly invincible unless you catch them in a bubble.
Since then they've added a feature that if you try to warp inside a PoS you will warp to just outside the sphere. What if they used this to force warp to 15km even with Bookmarks? No Bookmark lag, and small ships will regain their vulnerabillity in low-sec again.
Remember this isn't a demand, just a thought. If you don't like it feel free to argue against it, just do it constructively. I just want opinions.
Ah no than ks . I like the new WTZ . I did 200 jumps in one day before WTZ and i really don't want to repeat that .
Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
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dmosbarge1
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Posted - 2007.10.20 19:09:00 -
[14]
That was my proposal for fixing instas from the beginning, and I for one am sad thet Eve is so easy/soft now.
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citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.20 19:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 20/10/2007 16:48:33 I'm not saying EVE should definately do this 100%, but i'm just asking who would be in favor of taking measures to return some of EVE's former harshness. This is just a request for player opinions on EVE, not a demand.
Basically at one point you had to warp to objects at 15km instead of 0. People were placing bookmarks 15km behind stargates/outposts/stuff and warping to that which effectively made warp to 0 "but some planning was required". Warp to zero was implimented because large amounts of lag were being caused by those insta bookmarks. This has resulted in shuttles, fast interceptors, and escape pods being nearly invincible unless you catch them in a bubble.
Since then they've added a feature that if you try to warp inside a PoS you will warp to just outside the sphere. What if they used this to force warp to 15km even with Bookmarks? No Bookmark lag, and small ships will regain their vulnerabillity in low-sec again.
Remember this isn't a demand, just a thought. If you don't like it feel free to argue against it, just do it constructively. I just want opinions.
/Signed.
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Faith Black
Minmatar Rolls Roids
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Posted - 2007.10.20 19:53:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Faith Black on 20/10/2007 19:55:26
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 20/10/2007 17:57:30
Originally by: F90OEX We where talking about this on the test server the other day with 1 or 2 Devs, cut along story short, reason why we got warp to 0 was to get rid of all the BMs, from what I understand they caused lag. Once warp to 0 was on TQ, server performance was lot better.
Don't think it had anything to do with making the game easier.
Exactly, I already went over that. What I proposed was a possible workaround to return it to what it was before minus the bookmarks. Basically it would be more of a return to normal with a fix to the original problems then a nerf.
Yes, the question was about, if CCP dares to remove BMs and dares to force people to warp to 15. Warp to 15 was the original plan, the intended game behaviour, insta jumps with bms were just a tolerated exploit to circumvent that game mechanics.
CCP didn't dare. The solution was simple. If the warppath of the ship ends within less than 15km of the gate, then shorten the warppath, so that it ends exactly 15km away from the gate. One simple equation applied to a warp-initiation that would have made all warps closer to a gate than 15km impossible and would have made all instas useless, too.
But it was highly unpopular not to be able to warp right into jumprange anymore. That's why we've got warp-to-zero instead of warp-to-15.
Anyway, now it's just a hypthetical what-if thing. CCP will never remove warp-to-zero, because the outcry would be epic. CCP is happy that the problems is out of their eyes now and that the pro- anti-whining has mostly stopped after that change.
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Glynnis Atwode
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Posted - 2007.10.20 20:01:00 -
[17]
An interesting, logically consistent way of making 0.0 more exciting would be to introduce a small uncertainty factor whenever warping to an object. Most of the time you would come out of warp right at your destination but there would always be a chance that you would find yourself several kilometers from where you expected to be. The probabilty of a ending up at particular distance from your destination would vary inversely with its magnitude. Thus there would be a fair chance that you would come out of warp 2 km from your gate and a very slight chance that the distance would be 15 km. It would be pointless to make bookmaks since the direction of variation would be totally random. Seems to me this would spice up 0.0 life.
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Fswd
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Posted - 2007.10.20 20:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 20/10/2007 16:48:33 I'm not saying EVE should definately do this 100%, but i'm just asking who would be in favor of taking measures to return some of EVE's former harshness. This is just a request for player opinions on EVE, not a demand.
Basically at one point you had to warp to objects at 15km instead of 0. People were placing bookmarks 15km behind stargates/outposts/stuff and warping to that which effectively made warp to 0 "but some planning was required". Warp to zero was implimented because large amounts of lag were being caused by those insta bookmarks. This has resulted in shuttles, fast interceptors, and escape pods being nearly invincible unless you catch them in a bubble.
Since then they've added a feature that if you try to warp inside a PoS you will warp to just outside the sphere. What if they used this to force warp to 15km even with Bookmarks? No Bookmark lag, and small ships will regain their vulnerabillity in low-sec again.
Remember this isn't a demand, just a thought. If you don't like it feel free to argue against it, just do it constructively. I just want opinions.
Gates have 2 sides. Adapt --- Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig
*Snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you |
The Socialworker
Minmatar The Socialworkers
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Posted - 2007.10.20 20:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zy Nox Warp to 15km was nice.
It gave homefield advantage if you where fighting on your turf you had complete insta sets that definatley worked. If you where on someone elses turf you maybe had no instas, maybe ones bought off escrow (not allways reliable, easy to bust midpoint BM's) or hastily assembled sets by your scouts/personally.
It brought about chases, chasing that guy to the station to try and finish him off under sentry fire, chasing him to the gate, following him through and chasing through the next system.
Now if someone wants to escape then its insta dock at the station, GG. Warp to 0km on a gate, instajump, warp to 0km on a gate in the other system, instajump and GG following that guy if he aligns even a few seconds faster than you.
"meh" There is probably 0% chance of it ever changing back now but I thought warp to 0km was a crap soloution. This is coming from someone who often flew without instas and got melted by his fair share of sniping BS's.
What this guy says and ..//signed.
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