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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:54:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Wish I could give some constructive criticism on the Paladin. Tuxford acknowledged last Februari (!) that the Apoc needs a change/boost and now you present us with a T2 version that is just as pointless/useless?
Its hidden apoc boost. Its now the cheaper one from 2 equally crappy ships.
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Elseer Radak
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:55:00 -
[242]
Hi,
for the ecm boats, there is a drone oddness:
Sentinel (60m3 drones with 20mbit/s) vs. Keres (10m3 drone bay with 10mbit/s)
it seems like a bug or a misprint
For the Heavy interdictors, why did the Phobos(thorax) and the Onyx (caracel) loose the drone bay of the matching Cruiser? Also, why did the Phobos loose the coveted MWD bonus of the throx? Gallette are close combat folks (e.g. blasters and mwd not rails). Mind you the Armour resists are quite nice but seem more in keeping with Amarr Philospohy of the Maller than the Gallette sensibilities for the thoraz
When looking at the Drone capabilites of the Black Ops Sin (Domini base 125m/s, 400m3 drones) and the Maurder Kronos (megathron base, 125m/s, 125m3 drones) it strikes me that the drone badwith bonus is not balanced correctly. a Dominx is a drone boat designed to field 5x of each drone type (or scads of small / medium) while the Megtron is usually only seen with 5x ogre II's. So why do two diversae ship bases have the same drone data through put (suggesting that the ONLY function difference is drone bay)? Does 125m/s provide enough bandwith to control 5x T2 sentery drones - either way it's a balance problem (A dominx Base should be able to cntrol 5x Sentery II's but not a megathron base)?
Elseer R.
--
Reality: A consensual experience
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Tania Volkova
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:05:00 -
[243]
"the paladin needs to be rethought. it doesn't do anything particularly well. 1) sub par damage (abaddon does more dps) 2) cap amount bonus when it should be a regen bonus. 3) sub par tanking (abaddon gets better resists after bonus)
why is a t2 ship tanking less and doing less dps then a t1 counter part? I don't care if it's a tier 3 battleship. this is tech 2 battleship. and wtf is going on with the kronos doing nearly 2000 dps?
I want to know whose in charge of balancing amarr ships. the guy should be fired."
/Signed
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SmokeTheFly
Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:07:00 -
[244]
I am not impressed at all, anyone can mix up stats and give the ship a new name. I honestly thought we would be getting NEW SHIPS. Just lazy IMO.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:10:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Goumindong on 23/10/2007 20:10:53
Originally by: Elmicker Why does the amarr one get so many drones in comparison to the gallente one? It's ridiculous when coupled with its neuting capability.
As for the black ops, covert cynos are a bad thing all round, imo, but i'll wait to see them in action on sisi before passing judgement. The sin and kronos look to be ridiculously overpowered right from the outset, so situation normal with the gallente, but apart from that, i dont think i can add anything to the discussion. Nice blog and nice work.
The keres is miles miles miles miles better than the Sentinel. Wooo, frigate neuts to 20km, oh wait, worse than a single battleship neut, doesnt incap frigates or any other ships naerly as fast as any of the other three ships, and also isnt a damage bonus.
Its only redeeming feature is that its an amarr frigate and has 4 meds.
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Quote: vargur stuff
It would be awesome if it wad the PG to fit 4 Arties with 1 PG module. It needs at LEAST 9K PG.
I would agree with that. Though with the falloff bonus, ACs should be just fine for missions.
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:13:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Tania Volkova and wtf is going on with the kronos doing nearly 2000 dps?
Oh its getting heigher as longer the thread exists :D
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Magister Herm
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:16:00 -
[247]
Hmm.. with the Eos and the Myrmidons Drone Control amount nerfed,.. is there any other "real" droneboat left?
Or is the Sin the new Gallente Droneboat? (Or did anybody change the "Gallente do drones" to "Gallente do drones after 1 year of skill learning time"?) |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:24:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Magister Herm Hmm.. with the Eos and the Myrmidons Drone Control amount nerfed,.. is there any other "real" droneboat left?
Or is the Sin the new Gallente Droneboat? (Or did anybody change the "Gallente do drones" to "Gallente do drones after 1 year of skill learning time"?)
You mean like the Dominix and Ishtar?
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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Magister Herm
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:30:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Magister Herm Hmm.. with the Eos and the Myrmidons Drone Control amount nerfed,.. is there any other "real" droneboat left?
Or is the Sin the new Gallente Droneboat? (Or did anybody change the "Gallente do drones" to "Gallente do drones after 1 year of skill learning time"?)
You mean like the Dominix and Ishtar?
For Dominix: true, this one is left..
For Ishtar: yes.. but why does a T2 Cruiser class vessel have significantly more Drone control than the T1 BC, and even way more than the T2 BC? In other words: there is no much need anymore for Myrmidon and EOS, as the gap between Ishtar and eg Myrmi is rather small...
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xXxCCxXx
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:41:00 -
[250]
dont tell me that these features are 100% going to rev 3...
IMO tractor beam bonus= Booo TP bonus on golem= Booo
and why didnt the paladin and golem get a damage bonus?!
other than that I like it CCP a reply please
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:44:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Also Amarr. Don't Amarr ships already get the cap use bonus to off-set the general power of lasers compared to other turrets? In effect meaning that Amarr ships get a turret bonus but need cap-use bonus to sustain them. The shift to 4 turrets with 100% damage bonus means you get your turret bonus for free, making the +5% cap the icing on the cake.
Another clueless guy. It is EXACTLY same as apoc. Check bonuses on both ships.
That is exactly my point, it achieves the same cap use as the Apoc without taking a bonus to do so.
In exchange one less turret to avoid the inherent damage "bonus" of lasers pushing the damage too high. Four unbonused Tachyons do the same damage as five unbonused Railguns, though with greater tracking and lesser range.
I'd have thought that this would be apparent to anyone who flies Amarr battleships on a regular basis... or did you believe many of your ships were down a bonus?
One could argue that the capacitor bonus is therefore not as good as the Kronos' damage bonus, however the Paladin doesn't fill exactly the same role. It is designed for stamina (a feature I'd have thought many Amarr players would be happy about) or cap control when fitting neutralizers, again allowing it to outlast it's peers.
Whether or not the capacitor bonus amount is correct will show itself in testing as this is something of a new addition to ship bonuses.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:53:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
One could argue that the capacitor bonus is therefore not as good as the Kronos' damage bonus, however the Paladin doesn't fill exactly the same role. It is designed for stamina (a feature I'd have thought many Amarr players would be happy about) or cap control when fitting neutralizers, again allowing it to outlast it's peers.
Now search for those "many amarr players happy about stamina" or "cap control". And tell me how "cap control" helps in mission running/npcing in belts.
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Franga
Caldari NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:56:00 -
[253]
I am now going to train for Minmatar frigate 5. I want longer webbing range! HOT AS! _____________________________ Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now. |
Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:07:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Mack Dorgeans on 23/10/2007 21:07:59
Guessing all these will be invention-only, will the drops in hacking exploration sites be increased once they're removed from the farmable Cosmos areas? Decryptor prices are going to skyrocket, especially when people are going to lose a LOT of datacores each time a battleship invent fails.
Frankly, I think with this many ships intended for everyday use, the BPOs should be seeded to the R&D agents, or else there won't be enough supply and invention overhead plus demand is going to make capitals look cheap in comparison.
Edit: hacking exploration site drops should not only be increased, but the sites themselves need to spawn more often -- takes forever to find any it seems.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:09:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Guessing all these will be invention-only, will the drops in hacking exploration sites be increased once they're removed from the farmable Cosmos areas? Decryptor prices are going to skyrocket, especially when people are going to lose a LOT of datacores each time a battleship invent fails.
Frankly, I think with this many ships intended for everyday use, the BPOs should be seeded to the R&D agents, or else there won't be enough supply and invention overhead plus demand is going to make capitals look cheap in comparison.
Its not that much tbh. I did my shopping today, abt 900mil for 10x invention job (+9 run decryptors). So after 4 t2 BS sold you should start getting invested iskies back (and thats with LOW BS prices).
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:10:00 -
[256]
None of the new ships will ever be totally unprofitable to invent; people will just have to expect to pay a premium for the ones that are not so much in demand, or possibly ask someone to build them to order.
As for the Sentinel - I'd suggest changing small nos and neuts so that they have optimal of 9-10km, still forcing normal frigates into web range if they want to use them, but allowing the sentinel to operate just outside heavy neut range.
My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Agif
Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:25:00 -
[257]
Ok so we getting new ships yay! There T2 YAY! Oh wait its another raven chasis BOOOO!!!!
Yeah ok the T2 needs to have a T1 predecessor but you picked the raven and the scorp (These for example)
I mean how many versions of the raven and scorp do we need. + the fact that we already have a T2 version of the caracal being the cerb. Along with all the other cruisers they all have a t2 version so why not create a new ship for the heavy interdictor.
Hmmm = lazyness?
So going back to the BS class we have lots of versions of the raven and the scorp so why not use the Rokh chasis for the Marauders class? I mean how many versions of the rokh is there...
Again lack of thinking or was it just easier....
Just my 2c on this but it seems we are getting a crp deal...
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:25:00 -
[258]
thank god i haven't sold my cnr yet. the golem looks completely awefull. and im definitely gonna stick witch my cnr:)
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:27:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Shevar on 23/10/2007 21:31:45 Edited by: Shevar on 23/10/2007 21:28:14
Originally by: Elseer Radak Hi,
for the ecm boats, there is a drone oddness:
Sentinel (60m3 drones with 20mbit/s) vs. Keres (10m3 drone bay with 10mbit/s)
it seems like a bug or a misprint
It's not, each ewar frigate is like a mini force recon.
Basicly meaning amarr got fucked since amarr are the only race using a main EW that is size dependant. It's just plain fucking retarded.
The only good thing about the amarr force recon was using the cap from nos for a really nasty tank and using drones for DPS. Now the recons of amarr are pretty crap to start with but the frigates are even worse...
Wh00t it can solo any frigate that depends on cap to shoot weapons. Now tell me how usefull is that?
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Peepers ForPeeping
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:32:00 -
[260]
caldari BS aint going to be great for missions. Why? NPC Defender missiles now pwn your dps when they take out 1 missile out of 4.
bah
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:38:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Tedric Well, _very_ interesting ships.
I belive Maurders will become the mission runners ship of choice from now on, what with the interesting selection of high slot bonuses. An interesting side effect of this may be to bring back the use of the smart bomb, as the pressure on high slots has been reduced on these ships.
The Black Ops ships will bring Griefing to a whole new level. It will also bring an interesting brand of æcat and mouseÆ in contested system.
ted.
With their raw DPS output, larger cargo capacity, and open high slots I can tell you exactly where you'll find marauders: Ninja Ratting in a belt near you, cloaking and logging just like ravens do now.
No changes implemented to curb that, and these ships just play right into it.
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milao sung
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:39:00 -
[262]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This is what you all have been waiting for, the new Tech II ships coming in Trinity! There are Electronic Attack Ships, Heavy Interdictors, Black Ops and Marauders and stats for them all. Please go read New Tech 2 Ships for Trinity, then come back here and post your feedback, remember to be constructive.
Remember to be constructive ? How about go away and try again , we have time
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Talon SilverHawk
Caldari Patria o Muerte
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:41:00 -
[263]
Baaah want new ship models
Otherwise cool
Tal
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Ma Zhiqiang
Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:44:00 -
[264]
Seems like many of the ships are getting cross racial bonuses...
These seem to be the traditional bonuses:
Amarr - armor resist bonus, laser damage/cap need, cap increase, tracking disr bonus, energy emission bonus Caldari - shield resist bonus, hybrid range bonuses, ecm bonus Gallente - armor rep amount bonus, hybrid tracking/damage, warp jamming bonus Minmatar - shield boost bonus, projectile damage/rof, web bonus
Unless the designers behind these new ship types have "borrowed" technology from other sources.... . .. . ..
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:46:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Ma Zhiqiang Seems like many of the ships are getting cross racial bonuses...
These seem to be the traditional bonuses:
Amarr - armor resist bonus, laser damage/cap need, cap increase, tracking disr bonus, energy emission bonus Caldari - shield resist bonus, hybrid range bonuses, ecm bonus Gallente - armor rep amount bonus, hybrid tracking/damage, warp jamming bonus Minmatar - shield boost bonus, projectile damage/rof, web bonus
Unless the designers behind these new ship types have "borrowed" technology from other sources.... . .. . ..
Well never played WOW but i heard that Blizz did some swapping between char. classes in horde/alliance (sth abt paladin in horde?). It seems ccp did the same here lol.
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Anzig
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:48:00 -
[266]
I think the cloaking bonus of Black Ops are all wrong, but I'm going to argue a different reason why.
The Stealth Bomber no-targeting-delay after cloak makes these ships too powerful in the afk recon role.
These things are tailor made for harrasment tactics. You think it's bad now with cloaking recons, just wait until there is a cloaker in system who can insta lock/tackle after de-cloaking.
Imagine cloaking gatecamps where the damage dealers are 140km off and have no penalty to staying cloaked while waiting for a target. Not only that, but if you show up with something that can tackle it, the BlackOps pilot can have a cyno buddy the next system over and jump out.
Yes, warp-while-cloaked ships in home systems are annoying, but they're nothing on what a dedicated "griefer" could do with one of these things. They give a prospective target almost no time to react once they decloak.
IMHO, it works for bombers due to their tissue paper tanks and the flight time for cruise missles.
On a turret BS with a BS class tank or sniper fit; the de-cloak, volley, cloak cycle has to take longer to give the opposition a chance to react.
Speaking as a covert pilot, and someone who dispises afk cloakers, give us warp-while-cloaked BlackOps ships.
Warp-while-cloaked turns a BlackOps into the ultimate gatecamp buster. If one show up 140km off the gate the light, tackle elements of the camp will run or die. The sensor recalibration delay provides a precious few seconds for the camp to react.
You want fewer blobs? Give us warp-while-cloaked. As it stands no one wants to enter blobed grid due to lag. A BlackOps with warp-while-cloaked can cyno into a lagged system, then warp onto a grid at 300km knowing that his ship will still be there when it loads. Watch the blob scatter when he starts picking off smaller ships.
To summarise (TL,DR): Zero targeting delay is too powerful an ability for BS class hulls used in "grief" tactics. Warp-while-cloaked is of great tactical use against ships actively engaging in PvP.
Switching from one to the other will reduce their usefulness in "what I hate about cloaking ships" situations and encourge pilots to take them into active PvP.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:51:00 -
[267]
No target delay = no sensor recalibration time i think. They still take lots of time to acquire lock (thus need sensor boosters). Same as bombers.
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BlackKnight1717
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:54:00 -
[268]
This is just conirmation on how clueless CCP are when it comes to amarr.
The paladin is nothing short of a joke.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:56:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Now search for those "many amarr players happy about stamina" or "cap control". And tell me how "cap control" helps in mission running/npcing in belts.
I won't argue with you there, in fact I'm of the opinion that the Kronos and Paladin will make decidedly poor mission boats based more on their limited damage types than their bonuses.
I would go so far as to say that the Sin will be the superior mission boat for Gallente players. Missiles and Drones will likely remain the mission runners weapons of choice due to damage flexibility and ease of use.
So yeah, I'm already pretty much convinced these two ships won't be all that great at mission running, not unless CCP introduce the ability to chose what enemies you wish to fight against in missions.
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Caya
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:59:00 -
[270]
I have finished Amarr BS lvl5 like 4 years ago. Since then iv been waiting for t2 battleships and now i wish i just did not see those stats. If i had the power to do it, i would just send it back to designer, tell him to think harder about them and expect better result in 1 week. I think it is not that hard. Many good comments were already written here.
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