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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:22:00 -
[61]
Edited by: shinsushi on 24/10/2007 00:24:54
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
Originally by: shinsushi
Slightly overpowered?
HEy, with 5 turrets and 5 medium drones, the EOS will still be the # damage dealing fleet command ship won't it? How many DPS is it still pumping out anyway?
Are you too busy whining about Amarr or are you joking?
Show me a fleet command ship that will outdamage it
OH, thanks for trolling.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Kaker
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:26:00 -
[62]
dont nerf the myrm or the EOS any smart pilot will realize that they can one volley or two volley their drones. Why does CCP help those that cant think but screw those who have adapted? [url=http://www.eve-triumvirate.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=4059] [/url] |
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:30:00 -
[63]
Edited by: shinsushi on 24/10/2007 00:30:21
Originally by: Kaker dont nerf the myrm or the EOS any smart pilot will realize that they can one volley or two volley their drones. Why does CCP help those that cant think but screw those who have adapted?
I guess its a non-issue, since any smart pilot wouldn't field 5 vulnerable heavy drones like that then.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:15:00 -
[64]
Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.
The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.
Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)
I dont really think people understand. Your not supposed to solo in FLEET command ships. Heck, this is a mmog, your not supposed to really solo at all.
The point is that the Eos is now balanced with the rest of the command ships. It does low dps to coincide with the Damnation, Vulture and Claymore. If you want to do damage you should (omg) get a Astarte?
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Mourn Navarre
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:16:00 -
[65]
Originally by: CCP Atropos The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?
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Derrios
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:47:00 -
[66]
Originally by: slothe eos was always overated tbh
truth. its just the people on the losing end who whined enough to get it changed. ----------------------------------------------- New T2 ships give me a raging hard Deimos. |
Praxis1452
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:20:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Horza Otho
Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.
The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.
Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)
I dont really think people understand. Your not supposed to solo in FLEET command ships. Heck, this is a mmog, your not supposed to really solo at all.
The point is that the Eos is now balanced with the rest of the command ships. It does low dps to coincide with the Damnation, Vulture and Claymore. If you want to do damage you should (omg) get a Astarte?
well why doesn't CCP just make a A kills B kills C kills A system. Because it's boring. Ships have roles and bonuses help them toward roles but if a ships can solo there is no reason why it shouldn't. CCP should not force people to play a certain way. Also soloing is quite fine in Eve, just because you believe everyone needs another person to play with doesn't mean that the devs should actively stamp it out.
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Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:56:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Praxis1452
Originally by: Horza Otho
Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.
The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.
Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)
I dont really think people understand. Your not supposed to solo in FLEET command ships. Heck, this is a mmog, your not supposed to really solo at all.
The point is that the Eos is now balanced with the rest of the command ships. It does low dps to coincide with the Damnation, Vulture and Claymore. If you want to do damage you should (omg) get a Astarte?
well why doesn't CCP just make a A kills B kills C kills A system. Because it's boring. Ships have roles and bonuses help them toward roles but if a ships can solo there is no reason why it shouldn't. CCP should not force people to play a certain way. Also soloing is quite fine in Eve, just because you believe everyone needs another person to play with doesn't mean that the devs should actively stamp it out.
Its not what i believe its what ccp encourages through the way they make their game.
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Wigglytuff
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.24 04:17:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Xao Wen Ok, so the EOS bonus to drone has been nerfed to oblivion : from 50m3/lvl, it is on Sisi, it is now 15m3/lvl. 250 at lvl 4.
On the plus side, it's base drone bay is now 150, so it's 210 at lvl 4. Not big of a nerf. But wait.
The bandwith has been set to 75. 75, that means 5 meds, or a bizarre mix of unbonused drones (2H, 2M and 1L). Ok.
And, now, looking closely, I see that it as lost TWO, not one, but TWO ******* TURRET HARDPOINTS!!! Only 5 out of 7.
Well? It was slightly overpowered, ok, now it is just pathetic. Please, CCP, if you don't want it to field 5 Heavy drones (without bonus), ok fine, but give us back our turrets! Or give us bonus like the myrm to drones...
The Eos has been horrifically overpowered compared to the other 3 racial ships that this change is long, long overdue.
There was no reason for Gallente Commandships to outclas all 3 other races so badly, and were it not for my 3 charisma (go achura monks!) I'd be training/trained to fly them.
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Wigglytuff
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.24 04:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.
The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.
Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)
Because Fleet Commands are suppose to be decent damage and sweet gang bonuses.
In the case of the Gallente they had sweet gang bonuses and WTFPWNAGE damage.
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Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.10.24 06:08:00 -
[71]
although I think the eos was a really cool ship and would loved to have flown one at some point the way it was, the ship was not really in the same class as its alternatives,
the vulture can kinda snipe but is basically a wet noodle with a good tank, the claymore is pretty much limp, and the damnation although nifty with the new changes is still pretty low on the dps side, eos was doing a whole hell of alot of gank for a class of ships that doesnt have much.
to be honest I wouldnt mind the astarte being turned into the old eos as the attack version and then getting a new weaker command for the logisitics ones.
Originally by: Stamm Some people might have been convinced by the official announcement posted by Steelrat, but not me, I wasn't convinced until some random alt posts a brand new thread.
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2007.10.24 06:22:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xao Wen Ok, so the EOS bonus to drone has been nerfed to oblivion : from 50m3/lvl, it is on Sisi, it is now 15m3/lvl. 250 at lvl 4.
On the plus side, it's base drone bay is now 150, so it's 210 at lvl 4. Not big of a nerf. But wait.
The bandwith has been set to 75. 75, that means 5 meds, or a bizarre mix of unbonused drones (2H, 2M and 1L). Ok.
And, now, looking closely, I see that it as lost TWO, not one, but TWO ******* TURRET HARDPOINTS!!! Only 5 out of 7.
Well? It was slightly overpowered, ok, now it is just pathetic. Please, CCP, if you don't want it to field 5 Heavy drones (without bonus), ok fine, but give us back our turrets! Or give us bonus like the myrm to drones...
Less dps for EOS is good :-)
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 06:34:00 -
[73]
Seems ccp are going to nerf every ship not demmed to be worthless, you know, instead of boosting the bad ones all the best ships get kne-jerk nerfed to oblivion, this way the bad ones look alot better!
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 06:44:00 -
[74]
The only reason the Eos could outdamage its field command counterpart is that it could field heavy drones.
Of course to rectify that CCP needs to reduce drone bay size, restrict drone usage by crappy bandwith and remove two turret hardpoints.
WTS two Eos and a frikkin clue.
Btw, can we expect the vulture to get nerfed too? I mean it's the only fleet command that can outrange its field command counterpart after all...
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Dracu1a
Gallente Warrior Nation United SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 07:00:00 -
[75]
Ok so, its been touched on but i'll re-emphasize for some of the idiots here.
People whine that the EOS was too overpowered? Yeah it was good at solo. But its by far the WORST out of the fleet command ships for....well...fleet commanding. The tank was and Is still pitiful. Now that this nerf goes through its utterly useless. I mean, you people act like the dps on these ships HAS to be within 5dps of each other for it to be "balanced" or else you cry nerf. Seriously wtf. God forbid a ship be good at something another ship isnt as good at.
So fellow gallente people. I think its time we whine about the REDICULOUSLY hard tank that the Vulture has. I mean, its better than all the others so it should be nerfed right? NERF THE VULTURE.
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Plave Okice
Gallente 0utlaws
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Posted - 2007.10.24 07:38:00 -
[76]
I can't be bothered to read all the posts, I know what most of them will say.
I'm a 40 mill sp all Gallente combat pilot, I have almost 5 mill sp in drones, 10 mill in hybrids including med blaster spec V, Command V and lots and lots of other V's too. I loved the Eos, obviously. Why? Tank, Gank, flexibility. Small gang, solo, fleet, it was able to operate effectively in all situations and could be fitted to suit, fantastic ship.
However, let's be honest, it was way out of line with the other fleet commands, the only one better than its field counterpart. A nerf was always going to come, I've always expected it and I can't believe people are surprised, even I will admit from a balance point of view, it was too good. Is the nerf too much? Well, I'll fly it and find out, I'd rather see it with a drone damage bonus as opposed to hybrid bonues to make it more different from the Astarte though.
Just done a very quick calc, in full tank mode (dual rep, dual cap booster) I could get around 750dps, it'll be around 500 now as although it's only 5 turrets it can be 5 Neutrons instead of mixed Electrons/Ions. For full Gank mode there's still the Astarte (great ship too).
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DeMundus
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:38:00 -
[77]
Id like to point out Eos can only do a ceritian dmg type with guns... ppl that say we should look at the other ship to compare... well you can change dmg type, minmatar and caldari... ok I admit I dont wanna be Amarr... Nerfing both guns and drones seems to much... and why does every ship have to be balanced? Some minmatar ships are ******* great some are poor, so is it with the other races... in the end all ships only do diffrent dmg if CCP keeps going this way.... Abandon all hope But take care of teh cake!11 - Immy |
Waut
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:39:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Waut on 24/10/2007 08:40:20 Edited by: Waut on 24/10/2007 08:39:59 What us it with all these silly nerfs lately? Has CCP been secretly bought by EA? Or Sony Online perhaps
WTS and Eos or 2
In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
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Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:41:00 -
[79]
Originally by: DeMundus Id like to point out Eos can only do a ceritian dmg type with guns... ppl that say we should look at the other ship to compare... well you can change dmg type, minmatar and caldari... ok I admit I dont wanna be Amarr... Nerfing both guns and drones seems to much... and why does every ship have to be balanced? Some minmatar ships are ******* great some are poor, so is it with the other races... in the end all ships only do diffrent dmg if CCP keeps going this way....
you still have drones to choose dmg so that point is pretty mute, just the same though the nerf might have been a bit much but well see how it makes it to live
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:53:00 -
[80]
To reiterate what I said in another thread: yes, the Eos needed a nerf, but as usual CCP went overboard here.
Eos has problems as a fleet command ship: sub-par and cap-intensive tank compared to the other fleet commands, far and away the worst gank link set. It used to make up for that with massive dps, but now that's gone, it's gone from one of the best fleet commands to easily the worst.
My suggestions for a compromise:
- add a bit more bandwidth (to 95 or so?). I don't want to field 5 x heavies, but a bit more than the current number would be needed - restore the old drone bay size. Why nerf that, with the new bandwidth in place, all you're doing is adding insult to injury and harming versatility - change the damage bonus from a gun-based one to a drone-based one
Another important point would be fixing the infowar gang links so they were equal to the other 3, but I guess that's another project...
As is, I see little reason to fly an Eos as a fleet command ship (or for any other reason). The other fleet commands have vastly better gang link bonuses and better tanks.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 08:59:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Shevar
So yes it is brought inline in terms of DPS of the other fleet command ships.
...while ignoring that fact that the full Eos dps is only available at 2-3km range, unlike the other fleet commands.
The new Eos is just sad. Low, close-range dps, poor tank, crappy gang links (as compared with the other fleet command ships).
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Reacz
Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:01:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Reacz on 24/10/2007 09:02:43 Whatever the complaints, the Eos will probably become nice and cheap now.
Meaning that whatever the problem you're still getting a ship capable of soloing in 0.0 and < 0.5 probably for half the price of its counterparts.
170 mil for the Astarte? I shall look forward to paying < 80 for the nerfed Eos!
Yay! :P
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:17:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Reacz Edited by: Reacz on 24/10/2007 09:02:43 Whatever the complaints, the Eos will probably become nice and cheap now.
That's true. Expect Eos prices to go into freefall, starting about... now.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:33:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Shevar
So yes it is brought inline in terms of DPS of the other fleet command ships.
...while ignoring that fact that the full Eos dps is only available at 2-3km range, unlike the other fleet commands.
The new Eos is just sad. Low, close-range dps, poor tank, crappy gang links (as compared with the other fleet command ships).
?
Optimal is 2250m with a 6250 m fall off.
Also I didn't include ANY dronedamge.
So if only the bandwidth and no turrets would be changed and both eos and damnation got 1 dmg mod you get;
709 dps eos with 7 neutrons 2 ogres 2 hammerhead 1 hobgobs 382 dps damnation with 5 hams and 2 pulse 5 hobgobs
But since you hate short range appearantly
489 DPS with 7 rails 2 ogres 2 hammerheads and 1 hobgob.
And you get a higher range then the damnation to boot.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Spenz
Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:45:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Spenz on 24/10/2007 09:45:51 I love all the supporters. They are glad the Eos was nerfed because its a fleet command ship, but conveniently forget about its performance in the fleet command role. Double standards aplenty.
Going to sell mine. Only reason I kept it was because it could fight well in a small gang while giving some ganglink love (even if the good ones were unbonused). Now that it is 100% useless because its turrets were nerfed, its drones were nerfed, the module that its info links gave a bonus to were nerfed , and drone shields were nerfed, the Eos is officially dead.
Paper DPS once again wins. Practical experience once again is forgotten.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Spenz
Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:47:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Spenz on 24/10/2007 09:55:19 Edited by: Spenz on 24/10/2007 09:47:21
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Shevar
So yes it is brought inline in terms of DPS of the other fleet command ships.
...while ignoring that fact that the full Eos dps is only available at 2-3km range, unlike the other fleet commands.
The new Eos is just sad. Low, close-range dps, poor tank, crappy gang links (as compared with the other fleet command ships).
?
Optimal is 2250m with a 6250 m fall off.
Also I didn't include ANY dronedamge.
So if only the bandwidth and no turrets would be changed and both eos and damnation got 1 dmg mod you get;
709 dps eos with 7 neutrons 2 ogres 2 hammerhead 1 hobgobs 382 dps damnation with 5 hams and 2 pulse 5 hobgobs
But since you hate short range appearantly
489 DPS with 7 rails 2 ogres 2 hammerheads and 1 hobgob.
And you get a higher range then the damnation to boot.
WTB a setup like that that will actually work in a real fight. You also fail because Eos has 5 turret slots now, not 7.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:49:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/10/2007 09:54:26
Originally by: Shevar
709 dps eos with 7 neutrons 2 ogres 2 hammerhead 1 hobgobs 382 dps damnation with 5 hams and 2 pulse 5 hobgobs
But since you hate short range appearantly
489 DPS with 7 rails 2 ogres 2 hammerheads and 1 hobgob.
Fail. If you'd actually read the changes, you'd notice that the Eos now has only 5 guns (it lost 2, along with the drone nerf).
It now has comparable damage at range to the Damnation, while sporting a (relatively) poor tank and much, much worse gang links. Not to mention that is has a weapon system that can partially be killed (drones) or jammed (tracking disruptors), unlike the Damnation's HAMs.
... and good luck fitting a rack of neutrons *and* a tank on the Eos. Another problem the Damnation doesn't share.
As a fleet command ship, it now sucks compared to the others.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:57:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Spenz
Paper DPS once again wins. Practical experience once again is forgotten.
Yeah. Gotta love all the EFT Warriors with their theoretical DPS numbers.
I've actually flown the Eos in combat, in a gank linked fleet support role. I have some idea of what I'm actually talking about, outside EFT numbers. Something I'm pretty doesn't apply to the majority here...
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 09:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/10/2007 09:54:26
Originally by: Shevar
709 dps eos with 7 neutrons 2 ogres 2 hammerhead 1 hobgobs 382 dps damnation with 5 hams and 2 pulse 5 hobgobs
But since you hate short range appearantly
489 DPS with 7 rails 2 ogres 2 hammerheads and 1 hobgob.
Fail. If you'd actually read the changes, you'd notice that the Eos now has only 5 guns (it lost 2, along with the drone nerf).
It now has comparable damage at range to the Damnation, while sporting a (relatively) poor tank and much, much worse gang links. Not to mention that is has a weapon system that can partially be killed (drones) or jammed (tracking disruptors), unlike the Damnation's HAMs.
... and good luck fitting a rack of neutrons *and* a tank on the Eos. Another problem the Damnation doesn't share.
As a fleet command ship, it now sucks compared to the others.
Whats all this funny bizz with drones being destructable? You killing frigs and AFs in that large thing? Or how many ships actually use SBs? Drone killing drones? So can you. I dont see this as a major set back. Drone damage is the most annoying damage type in the game tbh.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:01:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Whats all this funny bizz with drones being destructable? You killing frigs and AFs in that large thing? Or how many ships actually use SBs? Drone killing drones? So can you. I dont see this as a major set back. Drone damage is the most annoying damage type in the game tbh.
Ok, you've proven that you don't know enough to be worth talking to on this matter.
If you've never flown enough drone boats to know the basics of what I'm talking about, you have no business discussing something like Eos balance.
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