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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:13:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Whats all this funny bizz with drones being destructable? You killing frigs and AFs in that large thing? Or how many ships actually use SBs? Drone killing drones? So can you. I dont see this as a major set back. Drone damage is the most annoying damage type in the game tbh.
Ok, you've proven that you don't know enough to be worth talking to on this matter.
If you've never flown enough drone boats to know the basics of what I'm talking about, you have no business discussing something like Eos balance.
I have used alot of drone ships thank you very much. If youre outnumbered 3 to 1 yes youll have hard time keeping your drones alive if they are a threat to the enemy. But then again youre in a world of hurt anyway. In 1 on 1 you both have equal skill and opportunity to kill eachothers drones. No medium guns or up are gonna try web and pop your drones, dear. In larger engagements 3vs3 and up no one will be arzed to kill drones. You sure we playing the same game?
Now how are drone far worse then turreted weapons? 1 TD and poof all turrets gone if youre in a bad situation.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:16:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Shevar
Eos without drones and 1 mag stab 499 DPS, damnation with 2 pulses and 5 heavy assault launchers with 2 BCU's 348 DPS. And the damnation can only field 5 light scout drones.
So yes it is brought inline in terms of DPS of the other fleet command ships.
The issue is though the eos might not be as good of a gang booster as the others. And CCP won't chang that probably, but then again this is how it usually goes. Did the curse/pilgrim get any bonusses for gang work after their solo ability got omgwtfpwned by the nerbat?
Welcome to the world of missiles, and prepare to get flamed at every corner for daring to compare their crappy dps to real close range weapon systems, because - without a doubt - some troll will point out their far superior range and say something like "Caldari always want easy mode!".
Anyway, any attempt to get a decent kind of damage out of a damnation is doomed from the start because it has no damage but a missile range bonus.
The question is - however - does it have to be this way for every fleet command ship? I see that having one good ship and three crappy ones is not fair, but nerfing the good one into uselessness is not the right way to go.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:19:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Shevar
Eos without drones and 1 mag stab 499 DPS, damnation with 2 pulses and 5 heavy assault launchers with 2 BCU's 348 DPS. And the damnation can only field 5 light scout drones.
So yes it is brought inline in terms of DPS of the other fleet command ships.
The issue is though the eos might not be as good of a gang booster as the others. And CCP won't chang that probably, but then again this is how it usually goes. Did the curse/pilgrim get any bonusses for gang work after their solo ability got omgwtfpwned by the nerbat?
Welcome to the world of missiles, and prepare to get flamed at every corner for daring to compare their crappy dps to real close range weapon systems, because - without a doubt - some troll will point out their far superior range and say something like "Caldari always want easy mode!".
Anyway, any attempt to get a decent kind of damage out of a damnation is doomed from the start because it has no damage but a missile range bonus.
The question is - however - does it have to be this way for every fleet command ship? I see that having one good ship and three crappy ones is not fair, but nerfing the good one into uselessness is not the right way to go.
Is there a difference in boosting 3 to perform as the 1 that is overpowered or nerfing that 1 down to the level of the other 3? Option 1 doesnt really appeal...
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:22:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I have used alot of drone ships thank you very much. If youre outnumbered 3 to 1 yes youll have hard time keeping your drones alive if they are a threat to the enemy. But then again youre in a world of hurt anyway. In 1 on 1 you both have equal skill and opportunity to kill eachothers drones. No medium guns or up are gonna try web and pop your drones, dear. In larger engagements 3vs3 and up no one will be arzed to kill drones. You sure we playing the same game?
Now how are drone far worse then turreted weapons? 1 TD and poof all turrets gone if youre in a bad situation.
Did you actually read what I wrote earlier?
I said that:
- the Eos now has 5 turrets, not 7 - fitting all-neutrons is not a realistic setup on Eos (Ions are the way to go) - missiles do not have the drawbacks that drones and gun do, as weapon systems - the Eos now does comparable dps to the Damnation, while being sub-par in all other fleet command respects
It would be balanced if the Eos tank was comparable to the Damnation, and if the infowar gang links were even close to being comparable to the armor tanking ones. But it isn't, and they aren't.
There is no reason to fly the Eos now, unless you are supporting a dedicated ECM squad -- and even for that, the Eos bonuses are a bit weird. That's a very, very niche role, compared to the other 3 fleet commands, all of which are nearly universally useful. If that's the only role it now has, it has become effectively a useless ship.
In almost all cases, you'd now be much better off flying any of the other 3 in fleet support. You get about the same dps (plus or minus), a much better tank, vastly superior gang bonuses.
My Damnation was already a more generally useful gang support ship than my Eos. Now the situation is just sad.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:26:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Is there a difference in boosting 3 to perform as the 1 that is overpowered or nerfing that 1 down to the level of the other 3? Option 1 doesnt really appeal...
READ what has been written EARLIER. Like for example post # 51 in this thread.
The Eos is way behind the other 3 in the role of ganglink ship. With this nerf, the Eos is effectively useless for solocombat (like the other fleet commands) but it is also USELESS FOR GANGLINKS (which the other fleet commands are not).
Is it really that hard to understand? Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:29:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Is there a difference in boosting 3 to perform as the 1 that is overpowered or nerfing that 1 down to the level of the other 3? Option 1 doesnt really appeal...
First the one is going to be nerfed below the other 3.
And the the prospect of increasing the number of ships worth flying by three appeals far more than reducing it by one.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:37:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I have used alot of drone ships thank you very much. If youre outnumbered 3 to 1 yes youll have hard time keeping your drones alive if they are a threat to the enemy. But then again youre in a world of hurt anyway. In 1 on 1 you both have equal skill and opportunity to kill eachothers drones. No medium guns or up are gonna try web and pop your drones, dear. In larger engagements 3vs3 and up no one will be arzed to kill drones. You sure we playing the same game?
Now how are drone far worse then turreted weapons? 1 TD and poof all turrets gone if youre in a bad situation.
Did you actually read what I wrote earlier?
I said that:
- the Eos now has 5 turrets, not 7 - fitting all-neutrons is not a realistic setup on Eos (Ions are the way to go) - missiles do not have the drawbacks that drones and gun do, as weapon systems - the Eos now does comparable dps to the Damnation, while being sub-par in all other fleet command respects
It would be balanced if the Eos tank was comparable to the Damnation, and if the infowar gang links were even close to being comparable to the armor tanking ones. But it isn't, and they aren't.
There is no reason to fly the Eos now, unless you are supporting a dedicated ECM squad -- and even for that, the Eos bonuses are a bit weird. That's a very, very niche role, compared to the other 3 fleet commands, all of which are nearly universally useful. If that's the only role it now has, it has become effectively a useless ship.
In almost all cases, you'd now be much better off flying any of the other 3 in fleet support. You get about the same dps (plus or minus), a much better tank, vastly superior gang bonuses.
My Damnation was already a more generally useful gang support ship than my Eos. Now the situation is just sad.
You cant compare it with amarr :-) Damnation tanks better? We'll as many say we are supposedly the tanking race, WOW its true for this ship! Unfair! Damnation has better gang support? Does the phrase "Amarr shine in groups" ring a bell. WOW, this also holds true for this ship! Unfair!
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:42:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
You cant compare it with amarr :-) Damnation tanks better? We'll as many say we are supposedly the tanking race, WOW its true for this ship! Unfair! Damnation has better gang support? Does the phrase "Amarr shine in groups" ring a bell. WOW, this also holds true for this ship! Unfair!
You're again not making any sense, and effectively dodging most of the issues.
I'm done talking to you.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:02:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/10/2007 09:54:26
Originally by: Shevar
709 dps eos with 7 neutrons 2 ogres 2 hammerhead 1 hobgobs 382 dps damnation with 5 hams and 2 pulse 5 hobgobs
But since you hate short range appearantly
489 DPS with 7 rails 2 ogres 2 hammerheads and 1 hobgob.
Fail. If you'd actually read the changes, you'd notice that the Eos now has only 5 guns (it lost 2, along with the drone nerf).
It now has comparable damage at range to the Damnation, while sporting a (relatively) poor tank and much, much worse gang links. Not to mention that is has a weapon system that can partially be killed (drones) or jammed (tracking disruptors), unlike the Damnation's HAMs.
... and good luck fitting a rack of neutrons *and* a tank on the Eos. Another problem the Damnation doesn't share.
As a fleet command ship, it now sucks compared to the others.
The reason I show these numbers is to show that just changing bandwidth so it can't field 5 heavies isn't enough to put them inline in terms of DPS with other command ships.
And the setup I posted fits fine with 2 PG rigs, allows for an injected, MWD, dual rep tank. And looking at the amarr balancing threads how they always compare tachs to 425's and 1400's I don't think that that is uncalled for.
But yes the setups are pretty theoretical, I mean who puts 2 pulse lasers on a damnation?
And for the record I agree that just as the curse/pilgrim the Eos needs to be boosted for gang use now that it's strong solo ability got nerfed. But then again, get back in line. The apoc has been utter ****e for like 2 or 3 years now?
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:18:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Shevar
The reason I show these numbers is to show that just changing bandwidth so it can't field 5 heavies isn't enough to put them inline in terms of DPS with other command ships.
Sure, I'm quite ok with them removing the 2 turrets. I'm just saying that they went too far in the drone nerfage department, I'm like something between the new 75 bandwidth and the old 5 x heavies one.
I'd prefer if drones were made the primary weapon systems here, actually, it would make it easier for the thing to stay at some range, at least, if it's supposed to be supporting the EW squad.
Originally by: Shevar
And for the record I agree that just as the curse/pilgrim the Eos needs to be boosted for gang use now that it's strong solo ability got nerfed. But then again, get back in line. The apoc has been utter ****e for like 2 or 3 years now?
Well, I'd much prefer that ships weren't made useless in the first place (and yes, Pilgrim Apoc and others also need help!).
The Eos was always a so-so gang support ship, but that was compensated by its good solo capabilities and good dps, making it pretty nice in gangs too.
Now it's bumped down to a very mediocre solo ship, and has lost the one thing that made it reasonable as a gang support ship. Since the infowar gang links are so lacking, and since this ship is now inferior to the others in so many other respects, it seems it's left with no role.
It's no good solo, it's no good in a gang.
Again, I agree that it needed a nerf. But this one went way overboard.
If infowar gang links were boosted, or if the tank was improved, then maybe. But as is... meh. I expect Eos prices to drop to rock-bottom, fast.
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AlphaM
Doom Guard FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:19:00 -
[101]
These changes dont make the Eos any more usefull as a fleet command, just taking away its one usefull roll
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:24:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Shevar
The reason I show these numbers is to show that just changing bandwidth so it can't field 5 heavies isn't enough to put them inline in terms of DPS with other command ships.
You've got to remove a few more turrets to reach vulture levels...
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:25:00 -
[103]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 24/10/2007 11:26:10 "Slightly overpowered"
5 T2 heavy drones, and 7 blasters with a damage bonus?
Yeah, ok. Now compare that to the other fleet commands:
Vulture: 25m3 dronebay. 5/5 turret launcher split. Optimal bonus
Damnation: 25m3 dronebay, 4/5 turret launcher split, missile velocity bonus
Claymore: 40m3 dronebay, 5/3 turret launcher split, tracking bonus.
So, basically all the other fleet commands can do 5 'primary' weapons, without a damage bonus, and light drones. Ok, so you might get a couple of meds in on the claymore.
Now. Lets compare that to the Eos, as is now:
210 m3 dronebay 5 meds, or 2h/2m/1l. 5meds being 158dps with max skills, and 2h,2m,1l being 210dps. (5 lights clocks in at about 100)
5 turrets (which is the same), but a damage bonus.
So, still, in fact, does noticably more damage than the others.
Regardless, this patchday is going in my calendar as The Day Gallente got Nerfed. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:46:00 -
[104]
Originally by: James Lyrus
So, still, in fact, does noticably more damage than the others.
Actually, no. With ions (the blasters you can actually fit in a realistic fitting), the dps is only slightly above the others. With said dps only doable at a few km range, while the other fleet commands have a lot more range on theirs.
So you'd never choose and Eos over the other for dps, the fact that the Eos has to MWD over to actually use the full damage makes it lose to the others.
You'd also never choose it for tank, the others do much better in that regard.
You'd almost never choose it for the gang bonuses, the others as so much better it's not even funny.
So the only time you'd choose an Eos in its intended role is if you have a large ECM squad that you want to boost, or if you're facing an enemy that's using lots and lots of ECM. That's it.
That's a pretty sad, niche role for a ship.
Amarr: great for any fleet which includes armor tankers Caldari: great for any fleet which includes shield tankers Minmatar: great for pretty much any close-med range fleet Gallente: great for any fleet that has a large, dedicated ECM group
See the problem here? With the Eos ship dps reduced to near the level of the others, with a tank that's already weak compared to the others, and a gang role that's useless in 90% of the cases, this nerf moves the ship from a great one into a useless on, without passing "Go".
Sure, it needed a nerf, it did way too much dps. But this "balancing of dps" is now totally ignoring the other weakenesses of the ship as compared to the others, so balancing the dps effectively makes is useless compared to the others.
Sure, if they boost infowar gang mods and/or boost the Eos tank, I'll have a different opinion. But as is, this change totally kills the ship.
You need to take everything into account when doing balance. Just looking at dps gives results like this.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:52:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
You cant compare it with amarr :-) Damnation tanks better? We'll as many say we are supposedly the tanking race, WOW its true for this ship! Unfair! Damnation has better gang support? Does the phrase "Amarr shine in groups" ring a bell. WOW, this also holds true for this ship! Unfair!
You're again not making any sense, and effectively dodging most of the issues.
I'm done talking to you.
Yes im dodging the billions of technical data, but im not dodging the big picture. Amarr is always told: "Dont whine about lasers and your ships, you got the best tank and you are awsome in gangs". Hmm problem is mostly this isnt even true. In this case funny enough, it is and it suddenly gets to everyone and they feel its unfair. No fun being on the recieving end of these so called justification on why you have to suck at this and that? We amarr know the feeling....I thought it'd be fun to slap the same crap back at the race that usually put up similar arguments about our race and why we should be inferior to them.
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Valea Silpha
Death Monkey's With Knives Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:08:00 -
[106]
I feel it needed to add to this an idea probably quite alien to gallente players.
Just because something is THE BEST doesn't make it worthless. Your all bleeting because your fleet command is no longer a gank ship... well too bad for you. My claymore does... well ... less than impressive DPS. But you know what ? I use my claymore like its supposed to be used. It has a minimum of two gang links on it at all times, and aside from that is deigned to survive long enough to make its bonuses count.
Oh and don't start saying how rubbish information links are, thats the price you pay for having everything else in eve going for you.
So to sumerise. Your not the best for once. OHNOES. Better quit eve now.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
DeMundus
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:09:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Shardrael
Originally by: DeMundus Id like to point out Eos can only do a ceritian dmg type with guns... ppl that say we should look at the other ship to compare... well you can change dmg type, minmatar and caldari... ok I admit I dont wanna be Amarr... Nerfing both guns and drones seems to much... and why does every ship have to be balanced? Some minmatar ships are ******* great some are poor, so is it with the other races... in the end all ships only do diffrent dmg if CCP keeps going this way....
you still have drones to choose dmg so that point is pretty mute, just the same though the nerf might have been a bit much but well see how it makes it to live
But thoese are the ones getting nerfed Abandon all hope But take care of teh cake!11 - Immy |
Justice Bringer
Minmatar Space-Bar FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:57:00 -
[108]
Originally by: DeMundus
Originally by: Shardrael
Originally by: DeMundus Id like to point out Eos can only do a ceritian dmg type with guns... ppl that say we should look at the other ship to compare... well you can change dmg type, minmatar and caldari... ok I admit I dont wanna be Amarr... Nerfing both guns and drones seems to much... and why does every ship have to be balanced? Some minmatar ships are ******* great some are poor, so is it with the other races... in the end all ships only do diffrent dmg if CCP keeps going this way....
you still have drones to choose dmg so that point is pretty mute, just the same though the nerf might have been a bit much but well see how it makes it to live
But thoese are the ones getting nerfed
And what's worse is that the drones don't currently work!
You launch 5, scoop them back to bay, then try to launch again and you're told:
"You cannot launch a Vespa II because you are already controlling 5 drones, as much as you have skill to."
A clear bug so I hope that gets fixed before they release this.
Justice.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Valea Silpha I feel it needed to add to this an idea probably quite alien to gallente players.
Just because something is THE BEST doesn't make it worthless. Your all bleeting because your fleet command is no longer a gank ship... well too bad for you. My claymore does... well ... less than impressive DPS. But you know what ? I use my claymore like its supposed to be used. It has a minimum of two gang links on it at all times, and aside from that is deigned to survive long enough to make its bonuses count.
Oh and don't start saying how rubbish information links are, thats the price you pay for having everything else in eve going for you.
So to sumerise. Your not the best for once. OHNOES. Better quit eve now.
QFT. Justice has been served and it tastes like a million buck meal.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:09:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Valea Silpha I feel it needed to add to this an idea probably quite alien to gallente players.
Just because something is THE BEST doesn't make it worthless. Your all bleeting because your fleet command is no longer a gank ship... well too bad for you. My claymore does... well ... less than impressive DPS. But you know what ? I use my claymore like its supposed to be used. It has a minimum of two gang links on it at all times, and aside from that is deigned to survive long enough to make its bonuses count.
Oh and don't start saying how rubbish information links are, thats the price you pay for having everything else in eve going for you.
So to sumerise. Your not the best for once. OHNOES. Better quit eve now.
QFT. Justice has been served and it tastes like a million buck meal.
See, this is how you differentiate between intelligent people and utter ******* morons.
The intelligent people recognize sub-par ships even when they don't fly them themselves, and hope that all ships are made useful regardless of whether they have a personal stake in things themselves.
The morons sound like the people above, and usually follow the logic: "our ships X, Y and Z suck, so it's great that ship N (which I don't fly) is also made to suck! Woohoo!"
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:24:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
See, this is how you differentiate between intelligent people and utter ******* morons.
The intelligent people recognize sub-par ships even when they don't fly them themselves, and hope that all ships are made useful regardless of whether they have a personal stake in things themselves.
The morons sound like the people above, and usually follow the logic: "our ships X, Y and Z suck, so it's great that ship N (which I don't fly) is also made to suck! Woohoo!"
Suck and great are relative numbers, meaning a ship sucks means it sucks relatively to the other ships. If the other ships become worse then the sucky ships then suddenly the sucky ships are great ones.
That being said the Eos is sub par and not sucky after the changes, and you should wonder for how many roles does gallente have sub par ships and compare that to other races. Sorry but I really can't start caring to much since gallente specced players got loads of top end shiplines left.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:29:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Valea Silpha I feel it needed to add to this an idea probably quite alien to gallente players.
Just because something is THE BEST doesn't make it worthless. Your all bleeting because your fleet command is no longer a gank ship... well too bad for you. My claymore does... well ... less than impressive DPS. But you know what ? I use my claymore like its supposed to be used. It has a minimum of two gang links on it at all times, and aside from that is deigned to survive long enough to make its bonuses count.
Oh and don't start saying how rubbish information links are, thats the price you pay for having everything else in eve going for you.
So to sumerise. Your not the best for once. OHNOES. Better quit eve now.
QFT. Justice has been served and it tastes like a million buck meal.
See, this is how you differentiate between intelligent people and utter ******* morons.
The intelligent people recognize sub-par ships even when they don't fly them themselves, and hope that all ships are made useful regardless of whether they have a personal stake in things themselves.
The morons sound like the people above, and usually follow the logic: "our ships X, Y and Z suck, so it's great that ship N (which I don't fly) is also made to suck! Woohoo!"
Dont expect any sympathy tears from any other race if youre gallente. Youve had your overpowered ships for long enough. Cry me a river, baby.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:31:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Shevar
That being said the Eos is sub par and not sucky after the changes, and you should wonder for how many roles does gallente have sub par ships and compare that to other races. Sorry but I really can't start caring to much since gallente specced players got loads of top end shiplines left.
The only race that can really complain right now are the Amarr, the others all have (or are getting) a ton of excellent ships and weapon systems. Amarr also have lots of nice toys, but they have a disproportionate number of crap ships at the moment.
...and I actually fly Amarr a lot, I'm not "specced" anything, for what it's worth.
Sorry, but the "you can't complain about one ship being made useless since you have so many others" argument never did hold much water. If there are balance problems in either direction, they should be fixed.
Especially since we're talking about something on the test server, where things are still pretty fluid and open to change.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:41:00 -
[114]
To be honest, the most disappointing thing about these changes is drone bays actually becoming smaller, didn't someone say bandwith was supposed to enable bigger drone bays while still restricting the number/class of drones active?
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:45:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Ogul To be honest, the most disappointing thing about these changes is drone bays actually becoming smaller, didn't someone say bandwith was supposed to enable bigger drone bays while still restricting the number/class of drones active?
Yeah, that's another "wtf?" moment right there. Why nerf drone bay size, when the whole point of the bandwidth thing was to limit the number of active drones while boosting drone versatility? They say one thing, then do the exact opposite.
It's like the summer interns have taken over CCP. You'd get ship modifications just like this if you left them to relative newbies who used EFT as their main balancing tool...
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Fuazzole
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:46:00 -
[116]
Only ever used 5x Guns + 2 Warfare, will feel the 5 Heavy logistixs drone nerf
I can't complain, I like CCP prefer to see ships in specific roles then botched into poon-mobiles
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:50:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Fuazzole Only ever used 5x Guns + 2 Warfare, will feel the 5 Heavy logistixs drone nerf
I can't complain, I like CCP prefer to see ships in specific roles then botched into poon-mobiles
I actually agree with that, I fly the Eos as a fleet support ship, not a pwnmobile.
Thing is... after these changes, it's pretty crappy in that fleet support role.
The infowar gang links have always been crap compared to the others, and now it can't even use lots of utility drones to help other ships. I'm not seeing what use this thing is to a fleet, anymore, unless they have a dedicated ECM squad to support... and that's one hell of a small niche.
Boost the infowar links, boost Eos tanking, boost the drone bandwidth. Anything. But the new Eos needs help.
I will be glad to see the end of the solo-pwnmobile Eos setups, though. That's not what the ship was meant to do.
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Gabriel Magnar
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:04:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/10/2007 20:21:25 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/10/2007 20:21:10
Originally by: Xao Wen Compare the tanks too. Have you seen the monster tank on those ships? Now the Eos has a 5 slot tank (yay), no drones, no guns. It's not "inline", it's "reducing to worthlessness".
Uh? EOS has one of hardest tanks to *****, surely better than claymore (unless sleip faction fits), comparable to damnation (better in longer run). Only vulture has best fleet command tank.
You damn dirty liar.
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:05:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Barthezz on 24/10/2007 14:05:50 Cross training to another fleet command ship takes a whopping +-20 days (depending on attributes / implants).
I personally went for the absolution instead of the claymore because the tank on the absolution is much better while still allowing me to tackle people.
Ever tried to fit a claymore for 'normal' gang operations? You know the parts where you need at least an MWD and Injector? That leaves you 4 mid slots for a tank (and no tackle gear).
Yea if you go pure tank (which is still only a 5 slot tank, as you still need an injector), it could perhaps be better then an EOS. But an EOS gets a good tank + injector + tackle gear while the claymore watches people warp off (or not tank).
It was a needed nerf, it was too powerful and I do think its more inline with other fleet command ships. Its perhaps no longer top dog, but each command ship has its own pro's / con's.
[note I said good tank, not great] ---
Dont be a victim of what I do to survive! |
phillie blunt
Live And Let Die
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:11:00 -
[120]
please leave the turret hardpoint to 7!!!!
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