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3ll3 Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.24 02:24:00 - [1] I have been reading some thing that puzzles me, who ever wrote the Epitoth in the Book Entitled Scriptures must have been writing some fiction or fantasy to jazz up the real events of that time. I mean it's not possible to just age so much over night, and more than likely he sent the Sefrim home feeling all pouty and sorry for himself because he couldn't get his own way, in my opinion sounds like he was being a big baby about it. Then realizing he'd made a big mistake tried to hide it with some junk about dreams and what not, as for the sceptre and crown probably in some pilots hanger gavering dust. As for the Sefrim they where probably just Warriors of the Faith or fanatical nobles who until being sent away where charged with defending each emperor during times of War or great unrest. The sceptre may have been a weapon like an energised Maul that could disrupt mater at a cellular lever hence tearing the target apart, while the Crown may have been a primitive form of implant that could be attached to the head and then removed as many time as the user wished unlike the implant of today. Though this is just my own personal view of this and As such probably not worth much at all, but I thank Those who have taken the time to read these thoughts on the subject.
Madrosynth Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.24 04:12:00 - [2] Interesting ideas. I have poured over scriptural references to Ametat and Avetat more times than I would like to admit. They were a pet obsession of my Master's. As far as the stories surrounding the scepter and crown go, you must take faith into account. It is easy to look at many of the scriptures and dismiss the stories therein as "impossible." To a person of faith, who openly believes that God created everything - all of us and the universe besides, nothing is "impossible." I think that most can see the underlying theme of the story. It is a story of good and evil, a story about the power of faith, a story about the virtues of loyalty and the burdens of leadership. One who looks at the scriptures with an eye tuned solely towards historical accuracy and reality-based probability misses the point entirely. This can be said of detractors as well as unquestioning followers. Run silent.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:31:00 - [3] I find the lack of faith amongst non-believers to be disturbing. How is it that they are so unable to take the truth for what it is? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Karanth Gallente Crazy 88's	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:39:00 - [4] Truth is truth, but for those without minds open to it, it is not truth. All that's left... There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of us left! -Rauth
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Ebon Seraph The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Rodj Blake I find the lack of faith amongst non-believers to be disturbing. How is it that they are so unable to take the truth for what it is? The Scriptures are not the only form of the truth out there Rodj. There are several books from the Empire that suggest other versions of what is listed there. Casserina Morchuna of the Blinded Eye Ebon Seraph recruiting!
Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Rodj Blake I find the lack of faith amongst non-believers to be disturbing. How is it that they are so unable to take the truth for what it is? Erm, Admiral...If they had Faith they wouldn't be non-believers, would they? I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Ardan Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.24 20:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Rodj Blake I find the lack of faith amongst non-believers to be disturbing. AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! Did I.Q.s drop sharply while I was a way? I mean come on! I Find the lack of faith amoung unbeleivers disturbing. Is that not much the same as: I find the lack of lungs on deep sea crustateans disturbing? I have watched Rodj spout incredible amounts of useless drivel, watched him write line after line of party rehtoric and religious dogma, but... If you ever needed an example of mindless obedience... well there it is. Instead of spouting what ever has been pounded through your thick skull all your life, why don't you try thinking for yourself? You would be surprised at how liberating it can be. P.S. For my brothers and sisters in U.K. I shall be returning to the fight soon. My other business is nearly complete. "Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." Colligula
Scourge Drakonis Minmatar Legio Decimus Inc	Posted - 2007.10.24 21:54:00 - [8] I believe the point that the honoured Admiral was attempting to make to you heathens was that he finds the lack of faith in anything amongst you non-believers in the one True God to be disturbing. Pro Imperia! "Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the Heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots fights a war on 12 fronts!" -Londo Mallari, Centuari Ambassador
Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.25 09:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Scourge Drakonis I believe the point that the honoured Admiral was attempting to make to you heathens was that he finds the lack of faith in anything amongst you non-believers in the one True God to be disturbing. Pro Imperia! OK, I see what your saying, but I don't agree! I think we "Non-believers" do have faith, just maybe not the way you understand it. I have faith in my Technicians (or I wouldn't fly my ships), I have faith in my judgement (even though as we all find out that can fail us sometimes), I (sort of) have faith in my ancestors and that they are looking out for me, I have faith in my friends and know that they have my back in a "big hairball"! I think it rather narrow-minded opinion that just because we do not believe in your "True God" that we have no faith, when some of my colleagues and friends are just as vociferous in their own personal beliefs. I think their is a lot of belief out their, just not wrapped up in your canonical ways! I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Nasaria Kayl Minmatar Little Sapling	Posted - 2007.10.25 10:33:00 - [10] Edited by: Nasaria Kayl on 25/10/2007 10:36:54 My good Sir, I'd like to draw your attention to the age of the readings in question. What item, made by the corrupted hands of mortals, has endured the ravages of time? Despite all our faith and reverence, these things corrupt little by little, a word here, a connotation there, some syntax in this jumbley bit at the end. While I'm on the subject of one can of fedo bait, I might as well kick another one over. How old are the Jovians, hmm? Surely they are not the oldest, and while they may be the most advanced today, they were not always thus. Could that possibly "explain" some of the more "impossible" happenings in our Holy, and wholly true, Scriptures? History is a patchwork of scribbles made by the winners of the day, and if you read some of the more outlandish and fanciful accounts of Gallente history, you may find yourself to be dressed in the same black you call us, Pot. What should be of issue, however is how disconcerted you should be that you do not have God's Chosen to lead you into His grace, no matter how ancient their writings. Of course, that can always change if you accept them, the True Faith, and work to reunite the Tribals with the more enlightened of the Matari, and help guide all of God's lost children, whomever, and wherever they may be. Respectfully Nasaria Kayl (edited for syntax) ~~ 1:2"And the sun went black as night and birds fell from the sky and flowers shriveled in the field and people fell sick in the streets and in the houses." Epitoth, of Scriptures

Mad Scorpion Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:54:00 - [11] 2 And the sun went black as night and birds fell from the sky and flowers shriveled in the field and people fell sick in the streets and in the houses. 3 And in this moment of terrible distress the skies opened with a loud shriek and angels, bright as the sun was black, descended down to earth and their beauty soothed all the people and the animals alike. 4 And when the angels touched the ground with their feet the earth shook violently and fire engulfed those daring too near the divinities. Their power being mighty and their presence potent the people were wise not to look too closely upon them. I also feel that these Serfim were early Jovians. The above passages remind me greatly of ships landing during a Solar eclipse. 11 The sefrim stood tall and beautiful, clad in their white and amber robes, with masks of gold and silver to protect people from being struck dead by their angelic beauty. The masks were no doubt used to hide their true visage from a superstitious people more than 6000 years ago. How would they react to seeing a Jovian as they truly are. 13 Then Molok the Deceiver sundered the lands and the people suffered floods and plagues conjured by him. Molok turned the people against the sefrim and people who once sang their praise now abhorred them. 14 The emperor saw that all was not good and summoned the sefrim and said unto them, The people are in great distress, what remedies doest thee have? 15 And the sefrim answered, My Lord, the land has split against thou, thou must make war upon thy enemies to reclaim what is justly thine. 16 And the emperor asked, Will thee aid us in this perilous endeavor? 17 But the sefrim answered, No my Lord, we are here only to guide and guard, it is forbidden to us to aggress upon any man. 18 Then be gone! The emperor said in anger, for his foes were formidable. Isn't this the way of Jovians, to watch and never to interfere directly. 7 The sefrim offered unto the emperor a present from God as one brother to another: Ametat the Scepter and Avetat the Crown, showing the great pleasure God had in the earthly work of the emperor. 12 And all this time the emperor Amash-Akura did not age one day and was as healthy and strong as the day he came of age. The Scepter gave him vigor and the Crown gave him acumen and his rule was wise and fair. Perhaps these devices were akin to the same cybernetics used today to maintain a longer than average life span to Amarr emperors, or considering we have no idea how much further advanced the Jovians are to us, they may have been much more efficient. If this hypothesis is true, it's easy to see how people from 6000 years ago could write the events as a divine happening. They of course would have no other way of expressing such an event. Mad Scorpion
Ardan Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.25 13:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Mad Scorpion 13 Then Molok the Deceiver sundered the lands and the people suffered floods and plagues conjured by him. Molok turned the people against the sefrim and people who once sang their praise now abhorred them. 14 The emperor saw that all was not good and summoned the sefrim and said unto them, The people are in great distress, what remedies doest thee have? 15 And the sefrim answered, My Lord, the land has split against thou, thou must make war upon thy enemies to reclaim what is justly thine. Not only does it appear that it could have been the Jovians, let me point out another thought. The emperor was not charged with conquering all people and enslaveing them for god. He was merely instructed to reunite his own kingdome. Since the Matari were not part of that kingdome, the emperor had no devine direction to conquer, murder and enslave our people. Since the Matari lived on different worlds, had no previous contact with the ammar, they were not enemies, nor were they previously the emperor's. So how could the empire be under devine order to conquer the univers and enslave everyone for god when the Matari, Gallante and Caldari where never "Justly yours"? Just a thought from an ignorant savage. "Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." [i]Colligula
Mad Scorpion Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:56:00 - [13] Good point Arden; Well look, in my opinion the Apostle Council and the church have been rewriting the scriptures over the centuries to achieve whatever they want. Since the assassination of Zaragram the church has been nibbling at the core to gain greater and greater power. Today when a serious event happens do we hear that the Amarr government will do an inquery? No, it's always an Inquisition, or church based investigation. The last two emperors, who were the most liberal of all the emperors who questioned the very act of slavery, died under 'mysterious circumstances'. How could an Amarr emperor, the most guarded and watched after person in the universe die from mysterious circumstances? And now it appears no Holder family leader wants to be the next emperor, I mean how long has the position been empty. Oh, and by the way we constantly hear how primitive we Minmatar are because we used to choose our clan leaders with trial by combat, yet the last Amarr emperor was chosen by trial by combat of frigate teams. Hmmmmm. Mad Scorpion
Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:36:00 - [14] I have a question, not being an archaeologist IÆm not to sure about this, but IÆm sure someone from Re-Awakened tech can answer this. As some of the others have commented about the possibility of the Sefrim actually being Jovian's, what about the other culture's and their potential influence (i.e. Sleeper/Talocan/Yan Jung/Takmahl)? Like I said, not my field but do any of these culturesÆs existence overlap with the timeframe involved? Not trying to go against the Jovian theory, just fielding some other possibilities. Seems to me the Takmahl civilization would be the most likely to be involved considering their expertise in cybernetics and Biotech. Just my thoughts. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Nasaria Kayl Minmatar Little Sapling	Posted - 2007.10.26 15:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Ardan He was merely instructed to reunite his own kingdome. The Emperor's Kingdom is the mortal Kingdom of God, which encompasses all of His children. Would you deny you are a miracle of creation? All humans, no matter race, creed, gender, or birth, are God's children, and he shall have them. The Amarr are merely the chosen sent to lead us out of the darkness and into His grace. As for you, Mister Scorpion, I refute that the Jovians are the Sefrim. Firstly, I don't think they are old enough to have been sufficiently advanced to do God's work in the time frame in question. I was merely pointing out that there are older, and in many instances, dead, cultures scattered amongst the stars. Whether or not the Sefrim are infact angels or mortals doing God's bidding, is an endlessly circular debate, as most all of the facts have been destroyed with time, and it therefore comes to rest solely on faith. My faith says that it would not matter if the Sefrim were divine beings, the Jovians, Sleepers, or the misguided tribals themselves. What matters is that they inspired the Emperor to lead the Chosen to their rightful path: the reclaiming of all of God's lost children. For that, they are divine, no matter their origins. Many of my siblings in the church would disagree with me, especially the more Orthodox ones, but such does not concern me, so long as I, they, and everyone do God's will. ~Nasaria Kayl ~~ 1:2"And the sun went black as night and birds fell from the sky and flowers shriveled in the field and people fell sick in the streets and in the houses." Epitoth, of Scriptures
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:20:00 - [16] Quote: Would you deny you are a miracle of creation? Err, yeah. Evolution. Look it up, any dictionary near you (except and Amarr one). -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:32:00 - [17] Edited by: Evanda Char on 26/10/2007 18:33:56 Originally by: Hooch Flux I have a question, not being an archaeologist IÆm not to sure about this, but IÆm sure someone from Re-Awakened tech can answer this. As some of the others have commented about the possibility of the Sefrim actually being Jovians, what about the other cultures and their potential influence (i.e. Sleeper/Talocan/Yan Jung/Takmahl)? Like I said, not my field but do any of these culturesÆs existence overlap with the timeframe involved? Not trying to go against the Jovian theory, just fielding some other possibilities. Seems to me the Takmahl civilization would be the most likely to be involved considering their expertise in cybernetics and Biotech. Just my thoughts. The problem with scriptural evidence is that it's very difficult to date. Did the events take place at the time they're claimed to, or are they an older legend patched into a new culture's own history? The book of Epitoth suggests that the Sefrim "spoke the language of God." Living as they do in the Takhmal's ancient lands, it could well be that the Amarr took some survival of the Takhmal's ancient tongue as their own holy language. (It's my theory, also, that some survival or reinterpretation of ancient Takhmal practice gave rise to the beliefs and practices known as Sani Sabik - with regard to the Sefrim's masks of gold and silver, see Kai Zion's work, "The Dichotomy of Silver".) The technology suggested by the alleged effects of the Ametat and Avetat, on the other hand, yes, this could well be a survival of Takhmal artefacts... that, or some fusion of ancient tech, such as Re-Awakened are trying to achieve. The names suggest a definite Takhmal link, and if Ametat were indeed a weapon of some form, their expertise in the harnessing and redirection of massive amounts of energy from very small sources would almost certainly be the most likely progenitor. Given that it is described as "granting him vigour" and the potential connection between the Takhmal and the Sani Sabik cult, with their endless quest for immortality, one wonders if this might be some kind of biotech energy vampire... The scriptures describe Amash-Akura "wielding" the sceptre and crown, and state that the crown gave him acumen. Therefore some kind of implant array used in conjunction with the sceptre is one possible theory... the forerunner of talisman implants, perhaps? These are, I would stress, just one of many of many, many possibilities. If I get a chance to update my notes from the Takhmal data crystals kindly "donated" by Vigilia Valeria into some kind of presentable paper, I'll go into it in more depth, assuming there's any demand for such works. Of course, what people really should be wondering about is which planet these events took place on, and whether there is a natural eclipse of the sun there every hundred years... or if that was a ship... -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:54:00 - [18] All this talk is irrelevant. The Sefrim are the servants of God, and Ametat and Avetat were handed to God's people to carry out His will. That's all you need to know. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Mad Scorpion Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.26 23:28:00 - [19] 18 Then be gone! The emperor said in anger, for his foes were formidable. 19 And the sefrim, not longer in the emperorÆs favor returned to from whence they came that very day. And the moment they left the sun went black and people cried in anguish for this was an evil omen. Well Rodj, does this mean the emperor threw God out of the Amarrian way of life??? Just who or what have you people been worshiping for the last 6000 years then????? WoW! Mad Scorpion
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Mad Scorpion 18 Then be gone! The emperor said in anger, for his foes were formidable. 19 And the sefrim, not longer in the emperorÆs favor returned to from whence they came that very day. And the moment they left the sun went black and people cried in anguish for this was an evil omen. Well Rodj, does this mean the emperor threw God out of the Amarrian way of life??? Just who or what have you people been worshiping for the last 6000 years then????? Then maybe you should have read the last lines of the Chapter as well? You can read, no? Or maybe you skipped it in favour of dancing naked around some fire, daubing mud on yourself and waving around some sort of tribal phallic symbol? 20 And that night God spake unto emperor Amash-Akura in his sleep, Thy folly is great, Amash-Akura, thou hast rejected those I sent to thee in thine hour of need. Thou must redeem thyself to me by thy own merits. 21 And next day Amash-Akura had aged all his days and his hair was white and his skin wrinkled. But his spirit was high and his will resolute. God had charged him to take back his empire. 22 For five years Amash-Akura battled his enemies, wielding the Scepter and the Crown, and triumphed in the end. The day after Molok the Deceiver was brought before him in chains and sacrificed on the altar of God; the emperor died in his bedchamber, his task fulfilled. 23 And that night the sky turned red and the people were again happy that God was content with them and the new emperor. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.

Mad Scorpion Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.27 12:03:00 - [21] Certainly I can read Nomakai, and write. I also don't dance naked around fires, though the Gallente blood in me says that may be a fun time with the right group of people. Nor do I pay homage to such a privative and barbaric deity that condones slavery, a practice that's barely above the acts of cannibalism. You see we civilized peoples of the universe abolished such antiquated and primitive practices millennium ago. So before you take the high ground and tout your Amarr superiority know that there is a difference between technological advancements and social advancements. Yes you have many technological marvels, but how many of them were actually created by the very peoples you have conquered and how many were of Amarr design. At least I can fly a ship and not worry if some slave wired my weapons systems into the self destruct mechanism. Mad Scorpion
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2007.10.27 20:16:00 - [22] Actually Mad, as regards technological advances, when the Amarr conquered your planet, apart from your lack of ability to travel at superluminal velocity, the Minmatar Empire was actually, scientifically and technologically at the very least, far in advance of the Amarrians. Of course, the Amarrians destroyed most of that technology out of pure jealousy and spite. ----- Mixed Metaphor is now recruiting! Contact me for details.
Nasaria Kayl Minmatar Little Sapling	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Quote: Would you deny you are a miracle of creation? Err, yeah. Evolution. Look it up, any dictionary near you (except and Amarr one). I know all about evolution, perhaps better than you, based on your fantastical ideas of it. This is not the place to enter into a scientific argument, but I will snap back. The various races are all human, though in some instances, border on sub-species (for instance, Deteis and Brutors can not easily procreate, without the use of modern medical marvels). We exist on hundreds of planets, thousands of stations, and endeavor to terraform more moons and planets every day. In all our searching and expanding, we have yet to find another sentient species to rival us. That you would claim Evolution is proof you are not a miracle of creation is absurd. If anything, you only support my claim, especially if you wish to argue that we developed independently on numerous planets. I wouldn't put it past you, tribal. ~Nasaria Kayl ~~ 1:2"And the sun went black as night and birds fell from the sky and flowers shriveled in the field and people fell sick in the streets and in the houses." Epitoth, of Scriptures
Yulith Marek Little Sapling	Posted - 2007.10.29 09:52:00 - [24] Oooh she's clever ay? giggles
Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Nasaria Kayl In all our searching and expanding, we have yet to find another sentient species to rival us. Doesn't mean they are not their though, if you were an intelligent sentient species who could rival us would you want to contact us (Look at the Amarr reaction to the Jove)? That aside, Space is big, I mean really big. It's so big that if you imagined the biggest thing you could imagine, and then go even bigger you still wouldn't even touch the tip of the iceberg. Out of the 5,000 or so charted systems that we know of, how many of them can support life (as we know it), Something like 1%, so that is like 50 systems that can support life, and as far as IÆm aware non of those systems had an indigenous sentient species and we know we did not originate in the cluster so our point of origin was somewhere else (Fabled Earth). So it's not really surprising that we havenÆt encountered anything (If it is out there), the maths are against it right now. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.29 12:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Evanda Char ...Of course, what people really should be wondering about is which planet these events took place on, and whether there is a natural eclipse of the sun there every hundred years... or if that was a ship... Wow, their is just so much about our past we just don't understand. Has their ever been any evidence of these culture's taking any interest in our ancestors, or is it still a bit too vague? I guess it's like a puzzle, waiting for that one piece to make all the others make sense. Going with the working theory that we have going here, what motivations would such a society have to so drastically intefere with a more primitive culture? Why back simply one leader? Guess that is only for time to tell. Would very much like to see where your research leads. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!

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