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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Poister
Amarr THEM. Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:26:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Poister on 24/10/2007 13:26:04
Originally by: GM Grimmi Hello everyone,
I just want to clear this up real quick. GMs are NOT able to see users' Windows Product IDs. What we are able to see, is a hashed value of Windows Product ID key. We have no way to see the actual Windows Product ID key but we can cross reference the hashed value and see if a given user shares that with another user.
I'd just like to point out something .. I hope CCP are aware Of "Windows Corparation" product ID's, As that 1 ID can cover hundreds and in very large organisasions thousands of PC's
Just a thought.
Thank you all,
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Tzar'rim
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Poister Edited by: Poister on 24/10/2007 13:26:04
Originally by: GM Grimmi Hello everyone,
I just want to clear this up real quick. GMs are NOT able to see users' Windows Product IDs. What we are able to see, is a hashed value of Windows Product ID key. We have no way to see the actual Windows Product ID key but we can cross reference the hashed value and see if a given user shares that with another user.
I'd just like to point out something .. I hope CCP are aware Of "Windows Corparation" product ID's, As that 1 ID can cover hundreds and in very large organisasions thousands of PC's
Just a thought.
Thank you all,
And they are allowed for home/non-corporate use for us to play games on.... kinda.
Act quickly, think slowly. |
flashfreaking
LFC FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:36:00 -
[33]
GM's are a necessary evil, and so is the constant hunt against ISK-sellers and farmers, I for one don't care at all what they do to extinguish it asap, as I'm not being harmed at all, 'caus I ain't one...
-This statements reflects my opinion, and not the one from my corporation and alliance-
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Lagerstars
Caldari Independent Operations Amen Anera
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:45:00 -
[34]
Its definitely good to see action being taken in such a comprehensive manor. Fingers crossed our corporate keys arent leaked and mis-used :) -----------------------------------------
- This space intentionally left blank - |
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CCP Lingorm
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:45:00 -
[35]
Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/10/2007 13:46:02
Originally by: Poister Edited by: Poister on 24/10/2007 13:26:04
Originally by: GM Grimmi Hello everyone,
I just want to clear this up real quick. GMs are NOT able to see users' Windows Product IDs. What we are able to see, is a hashed value of Windows Product ID key. We have no way to see the actual Windows Product ID key but we can cross reference the hashed value and see if a given user shares that with another user.
I'd just like to point out something .. I hope CCP are aware Of "Windows Corparation" product ID's, As that 1 ID can cover hundreds and in very large organisasions thousands of PC's
Just a thought.
Thank you all,
That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
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Lagerstars
Caldari Independent Operations Amen Anera
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:50:00 -
[36]
So based on that, it would be near on impossible to exclude someone on this basis by mistake.
Goodbye Farmers -----------------------------------------
- This space intentionally left blank - |
Maximillion Carter
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
So accounts which connect with the same hashed Product ID as a known ISK farmer has in the past must be connecting using the same PC and therefor there's a pretty good chance it's the same person.
Why not prevent the client connecting with known bad user Product ID's.
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Maltitol
Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:54:00 -
[38]
this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well boohoo.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
Now that is a nice feature, too bad this thread just revealed that info to the farmers...
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Maximillion Carter
Originally by: CCP Lingorm That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
So accounts which connect with the same hashed Product ID as a known ISK farmer has in the past must be connecting using the same PC and therefor there's a pretty good chance it's the same person.
Why not prevent the client connecting with known bad user Product ID's.
Well, then they couldnt ban that account :) much better to get the isk sellers to give ccp money for the account and then ban their sorry assess...
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Maltitol this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
Is your friend a isk seller?
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Poister
Amarr THEM. Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:57:00 -
[42]
That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
excellent ... thx for the reply ..... now i can go back to playing eve at work
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Maltitol
Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:58:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Maltitol this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
Is your friend a isk seller?
lol, no a real player.. but as per the eula, account sharing is bannable.. but how loose/tight is that?
does sharing mean full out playing the account? or even logging in once to change a skill and gtfo
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well boohoo.
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:01:00 -
[44]
Edited by: DubanFP on 24/10/2007 14:02:20 Also if he means the same Physical IP adress as opposed to the same Logical IP adress that can't be faked. Normally you see & use the logical IP adress. However, every Network card in the world has it's own unique MAC adress "Physical IP adress". Basically unless you're using someone else's NIC to connect to the internet you're guilty as charged. ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Maltitol
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Maltitol this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
Is your friend a isk seller?
lol, no a real player.. but as per the eula, account sharing is bannable.. but how loose/tight is that?
does sharing mean full out playing the account? or even logging in once to change a skill and gtfo
I dont know how harsh ccp are with this rule, it's not allowed in the EULA to account share but I think that is mostly to protect them from stupid support cases.
i.e. no we do not cover cat explosions in the microwave under the home insurance contract.
Besides, gaining account sharing evidence from windows hash id's isnt valid as I could be visiting my friend and I logged in to change skills.
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Maltitol
Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Besides, gaining account sharing evidence from windows hash id's isnt valid as I could be visiting my friend and I logged in to change skills.
exactly why i asked the question.. how far does the law go here before you get banned? what if you wanted to play for a bit on your friends pc, who also has an eve account...
where is the line?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well boohoo.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:27:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Maltitol this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
No you are not allowed to share your login details.
This feature is probably only used for serious offences (account hacking / isk laundry) as I would have been banned otherwise as I have used my friends computer while visiting to swap skills.
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:28:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 24/10/2007 14:31:59
Originally by: Maltitol
lol, no a real player.. but as per the eula, account sharing is bannable.. but how loose/tight is that?
Simple answer: if CCP would actually enforce this rule, there wouldnt be a single alliance left in eve.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/10/2007 13:46:02
Originally by: Poister Edited by: Poister on 24/10/2007 13:26:04
Originally by: GM Grimmi Hello everyone,
I just want to clear this up real quick. GMs are NOT able to see users' Windows Product IDs. What we are able to see, is a hashed value of Windows Product ID key. We have no way to see the actual Windows Product ID key but we can cross reference the hashed value and see if a given user shares that with another user.
I'd just like to point out something .. I hope CCP are aware Of "Windows Corparation" product ID's, As that 1 ID can cover hundreds and in very large organisasions thousands of PC's
Just a thought.
Thank you all,
That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
Does this mean CCP are not going to be the next line of defence against people pirating windows? Probs more effective than WGA tbh
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Taedrin
Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:50:00 -
[50]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/10/2007 13:46:02
Originally by: Poister Edited by: Poister on 24/10/2007 13:26:04
Originally by: GM Grimmi Hello everyone,
I just want to clear this up real quick. GMs are NOT able to see users' Windows Product IDs. What we are able to see, is a hashed value of Windows Product ID key. We have no way to see the actual Windows Product ID key but we can cross reference the hashed value and see if a given user shares that with another user.
I'd just like to point out something .. I hope CCP are aware Of "Windows Corparation" product ID's, As that 1 ID can cover hundreds and in very large organisasions thousands of PC's
Just a thought.
Thank you all,
That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
Unless you have a Hash Collision, but now I'm just being picky
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:51:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 24/10/2007 14:52:18
Originally by: Maltitol this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
Comment please from Dev/GM. There are literally thousands who exercise this for their friends in good faith (and unfortunately, quire a few who dont), and seeing a sizable portion of EVE's playerbase banned because of a skillchange for one's buddy just sounds a bit overkill, even if it isnt outright bannable at this stage.
I just dont want another grey area of coverage from the GM's on this matter. We've had that before already with suicide ganking before it became "legal". -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:56:00 -
[52]
Edited by: DubanFP on 24/10/2007 14:56:21
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 24/10/2007 14:52:18
Originally by: Maltitol this bring up a question...
can somebody an online friend log in and change a skill for you once in a blue moon? or is that automatically a double ban for sharing?
Comment please from Dev/GM. There are literally thousands who exercise this for their friends in good faith (and unfortunately, quire a few who dont), and seeing a sizable portion of EVE's playerbase banned because of a skillchange for one's buddy just sounds a bit overkill, even if it isnt outright bannable at this stage.
I just dont want another grey area of coverage from the GM's on this matter. We've had that before already with suicide ganking before it became "legal".
The main reason they have the rules is so if someone shares their account or password then that person tries to take over the account & kick off person #2 they don't have to deal with the ****feast he said/she said situation. Whole lot easier to either force them to figure it out themselves or ban them both. Short of a situation like that I don't think CCP really cares, even if it is technically against the EULA. Just don't go around announcing it "like on a public forum" . ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: yuancongxin01's Wife I think so, GM dont have the right to see our Windows ID. But they are doing that, as I known I am lucky, that I am not in China. And I am not a Farmer. But some of my best friend were be banned. because 'your Windows Product ID is same as isk seller, how can you explain that?'
Can anyone explain that to me?
I think, almost everyone know, that in China, almost no one using original-Windows System, even the other Software. That mean, its possibly they have all the same Windows ID.
GM, you wanna Ban them all?
Well I guess using pirate copys of windows does suck in some cases, oh well...
if the eve player has or not an original windows, is none of CCPs business. actually there are many countries (for example all .SK domains, which i don't know what country exctaly it is) which have no software copyright laws, so it's actually perfectly fine to run pirate copies in those countries. but as said, the windows ID is none of CCP business and i don't think it should be possible to use a windows ID as argument for a ban.
world of warcraft has had big complaints from all users a few years ago, as their game loader gathered just "a little bit too much" info. i would like to know what's CCP stand on this issue.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Seamus Drummer
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gner Dechast
So, I guess using Product ID and IP based screening is well within the legal boundaries. ...this also makes alot of sense why would such a thing exist in the first place, as Product ID (over using License key).
But that would be a foolish attempt. All of the PCs in our company have the same Product ID as they were set up from one image. So are my two PCs at home. Nothing wrong with this, as long as you have a valid license for each copy.
You just simply don't run around and set up hundreds of PCs from CD/DVD.
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:01:00 -
[55]
Edited by: DubanFP on 24/10/2007 15:04:08
Originally by: Seamus Drummer
Originally by: Gner Dechast
So, I guess using Product ID and IP based screening is well within the legal boundaries. ...this also makes alot of sense why would such a thing exist in the first place, as Product ID (over using License key).
But that would be a foolish attempt. All of the PCs in our company have the same Product ID as they were set up from one image. So are my two PCs at home. Nothing wrong with this, as long as you have a valid license for each copy.
You just simply don't run around and set up hundreds of PCs from CD/DVD.
Yeah but they also catch him on the MAC adress "Physical Adress". This isn't the logical IP adress that most people are used to using. This is an address unique to each and every Network card. In theory you can switch Network Cards around, but it's pretty doubtful someone would have the same Windows ID & MAC address as a Isk selling company computer unless they're guilty as charged. Especially in a small game like this. ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:06:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 24/10/2007 15:07:15
Originally by: DubanFP
Yeah but they also catch him on the MAC adress "Physical Adress". This isn't the logical IP adress that most people are used to using. This is an address unique to each and every Network card. In theory you can switch Network Cards around, but it's pretty doubtful someone would have the same Windows ID & MAC address as a Isk selling company computer unless they're guilty as charged. Especially in a small game like this.
MAC is not a valid identification method either. it can easily be changed to something else. PLUS some of the first realtek cards had a bug in the winXP driver which made the OS and the drivers think your mac was 00-00-00-00-00 (digit missing? cant remember, lol)
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Tradelade
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:09:00 -
[57]
Yes!
Go go GM's, ban them all!
Good work CCP, don't let the whines stop you, get rid off these farmers and sellers. You are obviously atleast hurting 'em! Good job!
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Freya Selene
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:10:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/10/2007 13:46:02
Originally by: Poister Edited by: Poister on 24/10/2007 13:26:04
Originally by: GM Grimmi Hello everyone,
I just want to clear this up real quick. GMs are NOT able to see users' Windows Product IDs. What we are able to see, is a hashed value of Windows Product ID key. We have no way to see the actual Windows Product ID key but we can cross reference the hashed value and see if a given user shares that with another user.
I'd just like to point out something .. I hope CCP are aware Of "Windows Corparation" product ID's, As that 1 ID can cover hundreds and in very large organisasions thousands of PC's
Just a thought.
Thank you all,
That is true, but when windows hashes the Product ID it uses stuff like the CPU S/N, and Motherboard S/N so that the HASH is unique for each machine it is installed on.
So while machines maybe installed using the same Product Key the Hashes will be different.
Still baning accounts based on the windows hash ID, instead of any other prove like CC card, NAP or other avidence alike sounds a bit thin.
But probly one of the last resorts, unless you require cc information on trail accounts (and losing the easy "try and get hooked" trick)..
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: DubanFP
Yeah but they also catch him on the MAC adress "Physical Adress". This isn't the logical IP adress that most people are used to using. This is an address unique to each and every Network card. In theory you can switch Network Cards around, but it's pretty doubtful someone would have the same Windows ID & MAC address as a Isk selling company computer unless they're guilty as charged. Especially in a small game like this.
MAC is not a valid identification method either. it can easily be changed to something else. PLUS some of the first realtek cards had a bug in the winXP driver which made the OS and the drivers think your max was 00-00-00-00-00 (digit missing? cant remember, lol)
You can make it look different to an outside viewer yes. However, the actual MAC is still on the NIC. Not to mention the changing of a MAC address is more likely to be used to avoid getting busted. The likelyhood of someone changing their MAC address to perfectly match up with an ISK buyer's AND having the same Windows key AND who plays EVE is just soo small I can't really see it happening. Not to mention if the MAC comes from within "data gathered in the connection from client to Server" it wouldn't be hard to get the real MAC address rather then the changed one.
Basically it's theoretically possible, but increadibly unlikely that the Windows key and the MAC adress would line up by coincidence. Unless the OP at least has some tie/ties to the company even if second hand "like buying a used computer that used to belong to an ISK buying company". ___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Sun Ra
Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:24:00 -
[60]
Lets me guess
You heard rumours of M$ buying EvE & your thinking that M$ mite found out your using a illegal copy of windows ?
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