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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 26/10/2007 00:22:27 Hey all, I'm just wondering if anyone can breifly explain to me the mechanism that prevents under/overcutting to go on forever?
Say I set up a sell order for the lowest price in the region for an item. Someone then undercuts, and I undercut them, repeat forever. A few days later, after I've sold my items, I'll notice that the price has gone up again by alot. What was it that 'reset' the price? Can this be predicted?
-edit- And also, does this constant rising/falling pattern mean that it might be pro*****ble to never undercut and just let the order sit at its original price? (Assuming you're not in a hurry to move the items)
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Kendar Zek
Gallente Interstellar Aid Society
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:24:00 -
[2]
Supply and demand Elasticity Diminishing Marginal Utility
All these economic principles are just as real in EVE as in any other economy.
-- Owner, Venture Racing Team
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 26/10/2007 00:22:27 Hey all, I'm just wondering if anyone can breifly explain to me the mechanism that prevents under/overcutting to go on forever?
Say I set up a sell order for the lowest price in the region for an item. Someone then undercuts, and I undercut them, repeat forever. A few days later, after I've sold my items, I'll notice that the price has gone up again by alot. What was it that 'reset' the price? Can this be predicted?
-edit- And also, does this constant rising/falling pattern mean that it might be pro*****ble to never undercut and just let the order sit at its original price? (Assuming you're not in a hurry to move the items)
This is advanced trading right here... to understand these patterns and to learn to take advantage of them. I honestly doubt you'll get a great answer, though a few people may give you some fairly obvious answers. If you can find the best way to price an item you'll make a lot more money than someone who doesn't know how to.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Treelox
Amarr Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:37:00 -
[4]
it sounds like you got played by a better trader
who got you to drop your stock to a low price, which he bought up, marked up and continued to dominate the market after you so kindly restocked his inventory.
Quote: And also, does this constant rising/falling pattern mean that it might be pro*****ble to never undercut and just let the order sit at its original price? (Assuming you're not in a hurry to move the items)
well if it "sits" at its orginal price, and your not selling any units, because you dont have the lowest price, is that profitable?
---
It looks to me that you have seen the black and white of trading, now you need to learn the grey area where all the real isk is made. There is no FAQ or guide for that, its grey its murky it doesnt exsist within codified rules. At this point its all about experimentation, observation, timing and luck. --
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Hanoi Hana
Mitsubishi Group
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 26/10/2007 00:42:52
Originally by: Treelox it sounds like you got played by a better trader
who got you to drop your stock to a low price, which he bought up, marked up and continued to dominate the market after you so kindly restocked his inventory.
He's talking about a different phenomenon. If you take a look at a lot of items that you would expect to be nearly stable based on number produced/sold, there are patterns that show up where the price rises and falls over the course of a week or two, but usually the period is not regular and varies by a few days either way each time the cycle happens.
This is still a little mysterious to me, but I have several guesses as to what is going on. I think this fluctuation/pattern is what Shadarle is referencing above.
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Nathan Grey
Gallente Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.10.26 00:52:00 -
[6]
A trader with more money than you "reset" the market by buying A LOT of modules, then selling them at a marked up price. ----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Morgan Cats
Amarr Cogswell Cog Investing
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Posted - 2007.10.26 02:40:00 -
[7]
I buy and sell on the market quite a bit.
i notice that the market fluctuates. sometimes i have good sale days and sometimes i dont. sunday and monday were good sale days for me while yestarday and today were not so good.
you can keep lowering your price till they sell but that lowers your profit margin. i simply wont sell if my profit is less than 10%. if my competitor sells for less, i'll let his stuff sell first, then put mine back up on the market. especialy if he has few items to sell and i have a bunch.
just wait for the market to go back up.
it is supply and demand. some will buy for there corp, some buy cause they need components for invention or t2 builds. some buy cause they are in a war and need to restock there supplies cause they cant mine and build there own.
when a patch comes out that changes the way things work (the one with invention) the market really made things drop, especially things like hulks.
* the market is mostly player driven. some are isk buyers/macro miners with more money than sense. * some are builders that think that there time mining is worthless. they build and sell stuff below cost.
it is possible someone bought you out so they can sell there stuff at a higher price. or it is possible that others were in need of the item and bought yours and a bunch of others till all that was left was the hi priced stuff.
check your journal to see who bought it.
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.26 05:34:00 -
[8]
Alright. It makes a bit more sense now. Someone likely has bought my low-priced stuff just to take me out of the game. That's what I'd do. So if you've got the cash to throw around, you can really control the market, huh.
Fascinating stuff, and a welcome distraction from the usual pewpew!
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Saidor
The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.26 08:03:00 -
[9]
IMO the best appoach depends on is the item produced by you or not and how much time you have to recheck the prices.
The easiest situation is when you make the items as you know the production cost, and the minimum profits you will accept. If you're not interesting in the petty 0.01 isk wars, aggressively drop you prices towards you chosen level. If they undercut by 0.01, undercut by 1/4 to 1/2 the difference between your min and now.
Some people may not like this approach as it lowers the pricing/averages for everyone and thats just tough in my book. Some say you could have made more money not dropping the price aggressively and keeping it at the original level and to that I would say no. You wouldnt have made any money that way as 10 people would have 0.01isked you.
This way you get your minimum profits+ and a higher turnover. If stuffs selling you can make more :-)
If you have a lot of time to check prices and fight the 0.01isk wars then dont waste time producing stuff. Play the market for the non-produced items like faction ammo, implants etc.
Theres a number of posts on the tactics to be wary of here but you can begin with little capital and make a killing. However you MUST know the big players tactics beforehand or you will be economically killed instead.
Hope that helps
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tornpain
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Posted - 2007.10.26 13:43:00 -
[10]
usually the simplest explanation is the right one.
weekends are great for selling high because demand is higher. weekdays are great for buying because demand is lower.
i often get competed up to razor thin margins on the weekends and then have prices reset on monday/tuesday back to healthy 10-15% margins.
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:25:00 -
[11]
Ah thanks. I concede that my first approach to trading was ALWAYS to under/overcut so aggressively that profit became a secondary objective to 'beating' the other guy. I've now fallen into the 1 isk wars: I've now got some manufactuing skills and researched BPOs, so after that kind of investment, profit would be convenient!
And is that really true tornplan? I never noticed that pattern, but I'm going to pay attention, to see what I see.
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Oriella Trikassi
Trikassi Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hanoi Hana He's talking about a different phenomenon. If you take a look at a lot of items that you would expect to be nearly stable based on number produced/sold, there are patterns that show up where the price rises and falls over the course of a week or two, but usually the period is not regular and varies by a few days either way each time the cycle happens.
One item that my Corp manufactures and sells at Jita always does best midweek. The item also drops as loot though not in large enough quantities to satisfy demand, and the loot sellers weekend shopping at Jita always undercut manufacturers as they want a quick sale. By Monday their stuff has gone. They will always undercut, even to below production prices, as for them the item is 'free'. I do of course have the option to buy them out and resell, but unless they are actually blocking my sales there's no point.
--- Trikassi Enterprises, oiling the jumpgates of commerce without microbidding. |
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