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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Zeros Omega
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:38:00 -
[91]
I like titans. --- History is written on the sands of Arrakis. A chapter has ended, swept away by the whirlwind. One door has closed, but another has opened. And on the other side... our future... |
Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:44:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Elmicker on 26/10/2007 14:45:01 jesus... what the **** are you thinking?!
Right.
The nerf, on paper, makes sense. +1.
The nerf, in game, IS IDIOTIC. -100.
First wtfmajor huge flaw: A carrier is meant to carry combat-ready ships. How, exactly, is it meant to do this when the ships it is carrying cannot hold any ammo or cap charges?
Second flaw: You're removing the ONLY current viable logistics tool and providing no viable alternative. Jump freighters will be costing half as much as a mothership, and regardless, will probably take a couple of months to get built and trained for. How are we meant to do corp/alliance level logistics in the mean time?
Third flaw: You've also nerfed capital module sizes. You want to force carriers to refit to perform multiple roles. How exactly are they meant to refit when they can't actually carry more than 2 capital modules?
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Cadiz
Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:46:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Elmicker How are we meant to do corp/alliance level logistics in the mean time?
so, i herd u liek 3-hour freighter ops...
Actually, by the sound of it, the Rorqual is getting a cargo hold boost or something. So maybe if all of your logistics guys petition CCP, they can get their Racial Carrier skills swapped over to Capital Industrial Ships. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Sandra Sun
Caldari The Collective
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:01:00 -
[94]
This is a terrible idea.
THIS
IS
A
TERRIBLE
IDEA.
Idea? Terrible this is.
Is this idea terrible?
IS: THIS TERRIBLE IDEA.
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Kublai Khan
Caldari TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:01:00 -
[95]
As Rexthor said, this is a good nerf to carriers. They just have to balance the T2 freighters so they arent way too expensive and cant carry too much. If you want to carry loads, bring a T1 freighter. I also agree that they way to do this is to increase the size of haulers and not screw with the carrier shipbay.
Also, if you all read the other thread they talked about wanting to specializing fighters for a certain role. Not do everything at once. So most likely you'll still end up being able to haul fuel with it, eventhough ****ty (hoped this would reduce the POS spammage around EVE), you just have to fit a cargo bay module to your ship.
As they said: Just wait and see till they get everything implemented
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Serilla
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:04:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Sandra Sun This is a terrible idea.
THIS
IS
A
TERRIBLE
IDEA.
Idea? Terrible this is.
Is this idea terrible?
IS: THIS TERRIBLE IDEA.
^^ this __________________
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Aegices
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:06:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Kublai Khan As Rexthor said, this is a good nerf to carriers. They just have to balance the T2 freighters so they arent way too expensive and cant carry too much.
You do realize that T2 freighters are TECH 2, right? That is, they need to be invented. Have fun coping with your logistics until you got some built :)
Also, more people need to read Grayton's post on page 1.
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Porks
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:06:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Aegices
Originally by: Kublai Khan As Rexthor said, this is a good nerf to carriers. They just have to balance the T2 freighters so they arent way too expensive and cant carry too much.
You do realize that T2 freighters are TECH 2, right? That is, they need to be invented. Have fun coping with your logistics until you got some built :)
Also, more people need to read Grayton's post on page 1.
Well they're only going to cost like 8 billion dude I'm gonna pop out and grab like 6 of them
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:07:00 -
[99]
Oh dear, you know a change is good when people threaten to quit EVE. Oh dear my pants are being ruined. OH DEAR
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Pilgrippa
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:12:00 -
[100]
What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
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Snot Gargle
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:13:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Oh dear, you know a change is good when people threaten to quit EVE. Oh dear my pants are being ruined. OH DEAR
Thanks for your helpful and positive contribution. Going on how your main is banned from posting here, not surprising though, eh digi?
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Kublai Khan
Caldari TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:13:00 -
[102]
Well, if you fit a cargobay or two three in your high, maybe you can carry the fuel in your hangar instead of in the industrials in your ship bay. You just cant instantly jump to a battlefield and be useful. And if it's abit less total capacity, so its abit more work to keep all those POSes up and running, it might end up reducing the total amount of POS spammage. I'm all for that.
Carriers should be combat logistic ships, not fuelers.
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:13:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
You think this will reduce the number of poses?
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Porks
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:14:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
Yeah brb offlining a bunch of towers so each station system only has 2 online pos's and can be taken by pos spam
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Cyberus
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:21:00 -
[105]
I can be agree with that change on carriers if we get something for it back in form of:
a)tier2 jump frigthers in place of tech2 b)they will come at same time on TQ as the change on carriers so we at least could field those in 1 week after the change.
P.S. I have fealing that CCP HQ was infected by some strange cosmic virus probebly coming from Jovians space. Thats causing all unexpected and most rarely/stupedly new ideas in form of visions how EVE should be by eployes of CCP. Hopefully Jove will discover soon they leak from biochemical labs and bring new medications to Iceland before the patch hit the TQ.
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Pilgrippa
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:26:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
You think this will reduce the number of poses?
Absolutely.
I don't think anyone disagrees that it makes logistics harder. I think that's the point.
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Jelana Travit
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:30:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Grayton Ok, as one of the main logistics directors for the largest alliance...
This is a good post. Agree with everything, especially the extremely convoluted and boring logistics requirements of POS / 0.0 EVE.
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mamolian
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:33:00 -
[108]
Not really sure what to say about this change, other than your upsetting a large portion of your active player base along with 10,000 carrier pilots with this change. Guess I'm far too biased to see the wisdom in these changes.. for you see I've invested something close to 3 bill isk in a character to fly carriers/capitals, along with the ship cost and fittings. Not to mention tying up 6 months + training time on a character.. so I've also invested 90 Euros keeping that account active during this time. I'm sorry CCP.. but this really is making me angry.
What was once a game so epic.. It was worthy of song.. is fast becoming the most boring pile of **** I've ever spent my money on..
-------------------------------
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Standard Deviation
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:38:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
right answer
jump logistics is part of the pos problem
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zero2espect
Amarr Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:45:00 -
[110]
welcome to the world of amarr. ccp nerfing you with a smile and saying, "but it's good for you".
i'm over this game
//sometimes less is more...zero
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Xanetia Ravenfrost
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:48:00 -
[111]
I'm hoping that modules will be introduced to offset this outright nerf of current carriers. I don't mind not having offensive capability if I'm doing a logistics job. However, leaving the only choices for 0.0 logistics either a 40-jump freighter convoy or an 8 billion isk Jump Freighter that won't show up at all until 2 months after Rev3 is shortsighted.
The last time a company made sweeping, unannounced changes to a class role in a game was Star Wars Galaxies, and we all know how well that turned out (offering bounties to blow up abandoned player houses).
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corporal hicks
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:50:00 -
[112]
woot so now instead of having 30+ fitted frigs ready to go in my ship bay as replacments for people I now need to have x ammount of ammo of all different types in my corp hangers so my friends can open my corp hanger in space and lag the hell out of a system, now multiply that by 5-10 carriers at the one spot outside a pos and see how much lag they generate.
CCP's Offical answer to lag is to create even more lag. Way to go, maybe we should all keep our bookmarks in our corp hangers also so we can really screw the server.
" Stay Frosty "
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Zequi
Caldari Princeps Corp YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:53:00 -
[113]
STOP NERF CARRIER CCP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) |
Arokan Manturi
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:56:00 -
[114]
I like it.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:14:00 -
[115]
At the risk of coming off as rather arrogant, I have to say this:
If you don’t do pos refuelling and/or alliance level logistics, then your opinion is worthless.
Why? Because if you don’t do it then you have zero idea what it actually involves, you have no concept of just how much time and effort is spent on it, you have no clue as to how boring it is, or how much like a second job it feels like.
In-fact I would go so far as to say that if you don’t do pos/alliance logistics, and your in a 0.0 alliance AND stating here that this is a good change, then tbfh you need to grow up and stop being so god damn selfish.
There are a large number of people, who are conversely a small minority in this game, like myself, who work tirelessly to do all the slow, boring, tedious, monotonous, laborious and never-ending task of bringing in pos fuel and other such crap for the benefit of every other person in there alliance, we likely do it more or less every day, or at least several times a week, we give up our precious playtime to do a JOB that no-one else wants to do, that very few are qualified to do (because you need a carrier to do it) and we almost never complain about it… because its just the way the game is and we’ve all just fallen into the trap of accepting it.
As far as I’m concerned, anyone rejoicing over this change is ignorant, selfish and quite frankly scum not worthy of being in a 0.0 alliance in the first place.
If this change does go through, I’m almost going to be amused at the drama that will follow, all the people who think this change is a good thing are going to be VERY UNamused when the following happens:
-Weekley mandatory freighter ops to bring in fuel -Daily transport/hauler escorts to get pos fuel out in the field -Alliances losing space because they no-longer have any means of sustaining there pos’s. -Alliances losing outposts because there freighters can’t get through enemy space/fleets/entry points
Why? Because people Do Not do these things, its like getting blood from a stone.
If you read the above list and through any of it was exaggeration or hyperbole, you seriously need to get a clue, as you obviously have zero idea how much effort it already is to sustain a large amount of space even with using carriers as transports, Ask yourself this: if this change is good, and carrier hauling is overpowered/unnecessary, why are CCP introducing jumpfreighters? Hmmm?
If this change gos through, you can forget the whining from carrier pilots, it will be absolutely NOTHING compared to all the people who currently have no idea just how much time and effort 0.0 logistics already takes, when they are all suddenly being called to do 3-6 hour freighter ops on a regular basis, and if they decide – as many probably will – that escorting a bunch of slowass freighters around for 20,30,60+(!) jumps is too damn boreing for them, then lets see how much they whine if there alliance falls because of it.
-
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Goca
KAOS.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:23:00 -
[116]
I have a feeling these people who claim to be "developers", who claim to care about this game, who claim to know wtf is going on, should perhaps READ posts like this and fix this goddamn game before doing any further nerfing or changing..
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=587827
Seriously do you guys running this game have any clue about this game?
Fix the ******* game, then worry about the nerfbat.. cripes.
It's seriously like they gathered up some preschoolers and said "hey wanna be developers"..
btw ffs leave the goddamn carriers alone.. they are just fine as they are..
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:23:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Kublai Khan Well, if you fit a cargobay or two three in your high, maybe you can carry the fuel in your hangar instead of in the industrials in your ship bay.
The fact remains that there is no real acceptable alternative for logistics, unless you have titans or really love the idea of escorting freighters for six hours at a stretch.
If this nerf were to be balanced with a greatly expanded cargobay or Corporate Hangar array (to the tune of 35-50K m3), be it "natively" or via fitted modules, then I'd grind my teeth but accept it.
Anything short of that, is a ludicrous and downright abusive change to their customers that have to do logistics...and even those that don't do the logistics, since they rely on those that do.
Welcome back to 2005.
----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards |
Montaire
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:26:00 -
[118]
They also gave the Rorqual an INSANE boost.
150k m3 in the Rorq's cargo hold.
Let logistics live with the Capital Industrial Ships.
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ColwirthGG
Gallente Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:42:00 -
[119]
ship maint. Array was meant for ships, not cargo. Thats why they have a corp hanger. I support this and the other change to fighters.
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Syberbolt8
Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:42:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
right answer
jump logistics is part of the pos problem
Your joking right? This will only mean that now instead of every alliance big or small being able to own a system through pos spam, now only large alliances with titains will be able to. This wont hurt pos spamming on the large alliance scale, this will make it almost impossible for a small alliance to hold and secure space, This only promotes alliances with titains to start taking over more space because of the lack of smaller alliances ability to effectively move fuel without the carriers as is.
T2 frighters huh? you kidding right, only 8 bil isk huh, thats not a small number to most smaller alliances either, and the skill sink in it is huge, with poor jump range even at JDC lvl 5 its not going to be good jump range. Mean while large Alliance X jumps in a titain, opens a jump portal and BAM 3 normal cheap in comparsion t1 freighters jump in with fuel pos parts, and refuel a whole system of pos's and takes all the mins to highse, around the same time small alliance x has to make 30 jumps from highsec to lowsec with 3 freighters, and a huge gang to defend it, if they can even get a huge gang togather, and if they can't then they are taking a huge risk with the 3 all I can do is hual stuff around ships. Have you ever been 10 jumps moving at .7 au/s, or 20, how about 30, your talking about 6 to 8 hrs depending on the range in those systems, just to get them there, now then you have to fly back, thats stupid.
Then again you say t2 freighters, OK so even if they small alliance can afford one and they get a pilot for it. its not even comming out with this patch. so what till then, all the small alliances are in huge risk of loseing what little space they have. not a good idea. If you want to remove ships from having cargo in them in the sma, then the corp hanger bay, and the cargo hold need to be made much bigger. I myself wouldnt mind hualing stuff in my own cargo hold, and CHA instaed of holding and indy ship full of stuff. and small ships should be allow to hold ammo and such, otherwise may as well anchor the carrier in space put up a pos sheild and us it like a mobile pos. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO
Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life |
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