Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 21 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 16:45:00 -
[121]
CCP while you are making these changes keep 1 thing in mind.
Not every player in EVE is part of Goonswarm or BOB. No we do not all have titans. No we do not have 8 billion isk lying around to spend on jump frieghters. And (off subject) we do not all blob with 40 carriers in a big circle jerk.
|
Standard Deviation
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 16:48:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Syberbolt8
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
right answer
jump logistics is part of the pos problem
Your joking right? This will only mean that now instead of every alliance big or small being able to own a system through pos spam, now only large alliances with titains will be able to. This wont hurt pos spamming on the large alliance scale, this will make it almost impossible for a small alliance to hold and secure space, This only promotes alliances with titains to start taking over more space because of the lack of smaller alliances ability to effectively move fuel without the carriers as is.
T2 frighters huh? you kidding right, only 8 bil isk huh, thats not a small number to most smaller alliances either, and the skill sink in it is huge, with poor jump range even at JDC lvl 5 its not going to be good jump range. Mean while large Alliance X jumps in a titain, opens a jump portal and BAM 3 normal cheap in comparsion t1 freighters jump in with fuel pos parts, and refuel a whole system of pos's and takes all the mins to highse, around the same time small alliance x has to make 30 jumps from highsec to lowsec with 3 freighters, and a huge gang to defend it, if they can even get a huge gang togather, and if they can't then they are taking a huge risk with the 3 all I can do is hual stuff around ships. Have you ever been 10 jumps moving at .7 au/s, or 20, how about 30, your talking about 6 to 8 hrs depending on the range in those systems, just to get them there, now then you have to fly back, thats stupid.
Then again you say t2 freighters, OK so even if they small alliance can afford one and they get a pilot for it. its not even comming out with this patch. so what till then, all the small alliances are in huge risk of loseing what little space they have. not a good idea. If you want to remove ships from having cargo in them in the sma, then the corp hanger bay, and the cargo hold need to be made much bigger. I myself wouldnt mind hualing stuff in my own cargo hold, and CHA instaed of holding and indy ship full of stuff. and small ships should be allow to hold ammo and such, otherwise may as well anchor the carrier in space put up a pos sheild and us it like a mobile pos.
The problem is POS mechanics and POS tied to sov. Part of that problem is jump logistics, making maintaining pos easier.
I would like to see them change POS mechanics, to make it less of a job and less time consuming, its stupid now.
|
EwokPoacher
Nubs. D-L
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 16:56:00 -
[123]
The only positive thing I see coming from this is people saying screw conquerable space and moving back to **** holes like Syndicate or low-sec.
I do not support this at all, I just like killing people in low-sec :)
stealth boost to low-sec!
|
Syberbolt8
Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 16:57:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Originally by: Syberbolt8
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Originally by: Pilgrippa What's ridiculous is the amount of pos there are. Making them harder to maintain = far fewer pos = good.
right answer
jump logistics is part of the pos problem
Your joking right? This will only mean that now instead of every alliance big or small being able to own a system through pos spam, now only large alliances with titains will be able to. This wont hurt pos spamming on the large alliance scale, this will make it almost impossible for a small alliance to hold and secure space, This only promotes alliances with titains to start taking over more space because of the lack of smaller alliances ability to effectively move fuel without the carriers as is.
T2 frighters huh? you kidding right, only 8 bil isk huh, thats not a small number to most smaller alliances either, and the skill sink in it is huge, with poor jump range even at JDC lvl 5 its not going to be good jump range. Mean while large Alliance X jumps in a titain, opens a jump portal and BAM 3 normal cheap in comparsion t1 freighters jump in with fuel pos parts, and refuel a whole system of pos's and takes all the mins to highse, around the same time small alliance x has to make 30 jumps from highsec to lowsec with 3 freighters, and a huge gang to defend it, if they can even get a huge gang togather, and if they can't then they are taking a huge risk with the 3 all I can do is hual stuff around ships. Have you ever been 10 jumps moving at .7 au/s, or 20, how about 30, your talking about 6 to 8 hrs depending on the range in those systems, just to get them there, now then you have to fly back, thats stupid.
Then again you say t2 freighters, OK so even if they small alliance can afford one and they get a pilot for it. its not even comming out with this patch. so what till then, all the small alliances are in huge risk of loseing what little space they have. not a good idea. If you want to remove ships from having cargo in them in the sma, then the corp hanger bay, and the cargo hold need to be made much bigger. I myself wouldnt mind hualing stuff in my own cargo hold, and CHA instaed of holding and indy ship full of stuff. and small ships should be allow to hold ammo and such, otherwise may as well anchor the carrier in space put up a pos sheild and us it like a mobile pos.
The problem is POS mechanics and POS tied to sov. Part of that problem is jump logistics, making maintaining pos easier.
I would like to see them change POS mechanics, to make it less of a job and less time consuming, its stupid now.
While a change in the pos mechanics would be nice, this fourm is about the carriers ability to hold between 40k m3 and 70k m3 for pos fuel, and or about being able to fit ships with ammo in them, Yes there are ways around it, but seeing as there will be no change to the pos mechanics anytime soon, and the t2 costs way to much to make own fly lose freighter this is the only option that works well atm. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO
Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life |
Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:03:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Pilgrippa Absolutely.
I don't think anyone disagrees that it makes logistics harder. I think that's the point.
Then you're stupider than i thought.
Harder logistics does not mean fewer poses. It just means harder logistics. Those responsible for big pos wars and pos spams already have jump nets or titans available to do their logistics for them on easy-mode.
This only damages small-medium sized alliances and corps who don't have massive pos nets available. Hell, even when jump freighters are available, probably in about 3 months, they're going to cost half a mothership. Only the alliances who probably dont need them will actually be able to afford them. Everyone's just going to have to switch to the next best thing; expanded Revelations, which are ridiculously boring.
|
Xanetia Ravenfrost
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:12:00 -
[126]
In addition to the points listed above, this change to capital ships pretty much goes against the Need for Speed initiative.
Let's make a necessarily annoying game mechanic even more annoying because we are bringing out a new ship!
|
Syberbolt8
Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:18:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Xanetia Ravenfrost In addition to the points listed above, this change to capital ships pretty much goes against the Need for Speed initiative.
Let's make a necessarily annoying game mechanic even more annoying because we are bringing out a new ship!
QTF ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO
Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life |
Cyberus
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:25:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Cyberus on 26/10/2007 17:25:44 Edited by: Cyberus on 26/10/2007 17:25:25 WTF!!!!!!!111 CCP ITS ****ING 50 DKP MINUS
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:28:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Ce Domina Uh I really like your game CCP but why do you insist on making us focus on the boring parts? This just makes fueling POS's/logistics more of a pain than it already is. What does that add to the game?
I know the idea is that then everyone can use jump freighters but those take a long time to train for and are going to cost 3-4 times what a carrier does minimum, not to mention the shortened jump range to make it take twice as long. This also has the comical side effect of making SMAs at POS's sort of worthless. Now everyone will need to anchor a GSC to store their ammo? What does that add to my gaming experience?
I don't expect any of these questions to be answered because it seems you're intent on nerfing nullsec as much as you can, and this is a great step towards making it unappealing. Between the mind-numbing logistics and the nerf to the highends that's probably coming when you get rid of trit pricecaps you're really making an effort to make everyone live in empire.
Oh wait I forgot we'll have superveld in 0.0 so all we need to do is mine that then compress it using a rorqual so we can jump it to empire in our jump freighters and then refine and sell it there! So mining profitably in 0.0, which used to take a retriever (if that) and a fast frigate to run the mega/zyd now requires 7-8 billion in investments plus months of training!
Seriously I like this game but please let us focus on the fun parts. Nerfing the carrier's logistics ability really only serves to make the game less appealing, by making the parts that everyone hates take longer and be more expensive to do.
I think they want alliances to have LESS pos and LESS territory.
In fact at long run this sould be "bennerical" on sense that will nerf e huge imperial alliances over large extensions..
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:35:00 -
[130]
Also guys you can use rorqual as jump second grade freighter as of now. So calm down.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
|
Montaire
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:40:00 -
[131]
What part of "Use the Rorqual" is hard for people to understand ?
These things are now BETTER than a carrier for logistics. DOUBLE the size. 150k in the main cargo hold.
|
Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:41:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 26/10/2007 17:42:52
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
I think they want alliances to have LESS pos and LESS territory.
In fact at long run this sould be "bennerical" on sense that will nerf e huge imperial alliances over large extensions..
Nope, the effect will be opposite that.
Only huge alliances will be able to perform the logistics necessary for POS chains. Once they have sov, they just need to build sufficient POS jump bridges and they can use T1 freighters to bring in all the fuel they need.
And huge alliances also (generally) have access to build titans, which with its Jump Portal Generator means that T1 freighters will be jumped all over the place to POS spam. In short, the only ones who cannot effectively compete will be those alliances too small to build a pos chain leading to empire, or to afford a titan bridge.
This reinforces large alliances, because smaller alliances will be unable to effectively challenge territory. Not that they really can now, but they don't even have a chance with this nerf.
If jump freighters were TIER two, then that would be another story. The BPs would be accessible to everyone, they wouldn't require ludicrous amounts of expensive T2 components, and pricing on them would be normalized. As it stands, I stand by my estimate that they'll run 5-8 billion and be rarer than polite monkeys due to low invention attempt rates (month long BPC copy times) and even lower invention success rates (one in ten if you're lucky).
Edit: IF the rorqual keeps that hold and its not a typo, that would be an OK solution too. Hell, it would be several times better than the jump freighters in that case, so I wouldn't count on the rorqual keeping that cargo bay size.
----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards |
Syberbolt8
Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:41:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Syberbolt8 on 26/10/2007 17:42:10
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Ce Domina Uh I really like your game CCP but why do you insist on making us focus on the boring parts? This just makes fueling POS's/logistics more of a pain than it already is. What does that add to the game?
I know the idea is that then everyone can use jump freighters but those take a long time to train for and are going to cost 3-4 times what a carrier does minimum, not to mention the shortened jump range to make it take twice as long. This also has the comical side effect of making SMAs at POS's sort of worthless. Now everyone will need to anchor a GSC to store their ammo? What does that add to my gaming experience?
I don't expect any of these questions to be answered because it seems you're intent on nerfing nullsec as much as you can, and this is a great step towards making it unappealing. Between the mind-numbing logistics and the nerf to the highends that's probably coming when you get rid of trit pricecaps you're really making an effort to make everyone live in empire.
Oh wait I forgot we'll have superveld in 0.0 so all we need to do is mine that then compress it using a rorqual so we can jump it to empire in our jump freighters and then refine and sell it there! So mining profitably in 0.0, which used to take a retriever (if that) and a fast frigate to run the mega/zyd now requires 7-8 billion in investments plus months of training!
Seriously I like this game but please let us focus on the fun parts. Nerfing the carrier's logistics ability really only serves to make the game less appealing, by making the parts that everyone hates take longer and be more expensive to do.
I think they want alliances to have LESS pos and LESS territory.
In fact at long run this sould be "bennerical" on sense that will nerf e huge imperial alliances over large extensions..
This wont hurt large alliances at all, believe it or not, the time it takes with multiple cyno ships and cap recharging ships along a path that a titian wants to take is very little, same for any cap ship, carriers get a very nice range boost to that effect, however again this will only serve large alliances as they have to manpower to do this, med and small alliances don't. For the large alliances its as simple as get large gang togather, have cyno and caprep ships jump to systems needed to make a path from point a to point b freighters start with the titian, titian jumps, opens portal, mean while caprep ships rep the titian's cap for the next jump, and portal. freighters jump in and repeat. takes alot of people todo, but for a large alliance this would be easy, then use the pos jump bridge network that any large alliance would be stupid not to setup, to fuel the area then go back the same way you came.
Small alliances can't do this. This wont hurt the big guys, it will just give them more power. and maybe give them reason to crush the small alliances that own space between there jump network so they can complete the link. either way the little guy loses ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO
Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life |
HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:03:00 -
[134]
Hey if a developer could confirm/disconfirm or take any of the things said by Grayton (who is one of the kingpin logistics guys in the the second largest 0.0 alliance in the game) into consideration then that would be great. Please don't leave us in the dark like you did for the GSC-in-SMA nerf.
|
Wil Smithx
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:04:00 -
[135]
**RABBLE!!!**
we must make another 100 page long thread of protest against ccp making billions of isk worths of investment and years of training worthless
|
Shaddam V
Amarr Project EVE Research
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:10:00 -
[136]
People keep saying use a rorqual. Am I missing something - rorquals have ship maintence arrays too. Yes they have nice cargo holds, but the real power for the hauling is in the SMA there. Does this change affect all SMA (like in rorquals, poses and carriers) or just in carriers?
|
Wil Smithx
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:12:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Shaddam V People keep saying use a rorqual. Am I missing something - rorquals have ship maintence arrays too. Yes they have nice cargo holds, but the real power for the hauling is in the SMA there. Does this change affect all SMA (like in rorquals, poses and carriers) or just in carriers?
this is more than likely all ships
|
Jehuty Vanricadia
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:12:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Grayton rabble rabble rabble
SPOT ******* ON. They have no clue about the logistics of this stuff, its yet another ballsy move by a completely clueless game design team.
Can someone confirm if the fighter assignment previous bull**** is still on the server? Its possible that this is intended to be rolled back but hasnt been done yet as per the dev blog.
|
Syberbolt8
Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:18:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: Shaddam V People keep saying use a rorqual. Am I missing something - rorquals have ship maintence arrays too. Yes they have nice cargo holds, but the real power for the hauling is in the SMA there. Does this change affect all SMA (like in rorquals, poses and carriers) or just in carriers?
this is more than likely all ships
Don't remember who said it, but its been said this effects all SMAs not just carriers and moms ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO
Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:37:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Tonkin u noticed they are not doing a dev blog over it, they are doing all the changes behind peeps backs
If this change does actually go through, this is what I'd be most upset about. After the backlash of the last carrier nerf, I guess instead of being forward about it and looking for honest feedback they just don't care anymore because they *know* carriers are overpowered, despite the vast majority of people disagreeing with them.
|
|
Bund
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:38:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Bund on 26/10/2007 18:39:30
Originally by: Montaire What part of "Use the Rorqual" is hard for people to understand ?
These things are now BETTER than a carrier for logistics. DOUBLE the size. 150k in the main cargo hold.
Uh huh. Check this out. compressed asteroid shipping container
10 isk says the only thing you'll be able to put inside haulers inside Rorquals or inside the main cargo area are these cans, and the only thing these cans will be able to hold is compressed ore.
CCP is ******* things up intentionally, so that the ONLY option for moving more than 20k m3 of stuff is to use an 8 billion isk ship with a ****ty jump range.
|
Lianlan Lou
Caldari ISK Farmer and Sweatshop INC.
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:44:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Audri Fisher this is a stealth boost to amarr.
Fianlly, just what we all wanted. signature goes here |
NoghriViR
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:50:00 -
[143]
The only way the devs are ever going to understand how this game is played is if they actually lived in conq. space. Open up jove and I bet the devs wouldn't last a week.
|
Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 18:57:00 -
[144]
What they should really do is push this change off 2-3 months and tell everyone it's coming. That way people start shifting over to jump freighters before being totally cut off from using carrier. It will take months of training probably and months of ramping up invention/production.
Also on that note, I really hope that the process for creating jump freighters isn't going to be what everyone thinks it is. A month to copy a single BPC with a maximum 25% chance for success just really isn't going to work. At all.
|
Damned Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 19:08:00 -
[145]
Originally by: NoghriViR The only way the devs are ever going to understand how this game is played is if they actually lived in conq. space. Open up jove and I bet the devs wouldn't last a week.
YEAH, open Jove space. u can keep your uber ships just dont use cheats. we would see how long u can stand there!!!
|
Montaire
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 19:12:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Bund Edited by: Bund on 26/10/2007 18:39:30
Originally by: Montaire What part of "Use the Rorqual" is hard for people to understand ?
These things are now BETTER than a carrier for logistics. DOUBLE the size. 150k in the main cargo hold.
Uh huh. Check this out. compressed asteroid shipping container
Rorqual cargo hold is 150k and I can put anything I want in it. So far, seems pretty awesome.
10 isk says the only thing you'll be able to put inside haulers inside Rorquals or inside the main cargo area are these cans, and the only thing these cans will be able to hold is compressed ore.
CCP is ******* things up intentionally, so that the ONLY option for moving more than 20k m3 of stuff is to use an 8 billion isk ship with a ****ty jump range.
|
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 19:44:00 -
[147]
Couldn't POSes just be run on a rent basis out of the corp wallet? Surely that would INSTANTLY make the game more fun for a lot of people
|
Swanny231
KAOS.
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 19:45:00 -
[148]
Oh good god, CCP wth are you trying to achieve ? the total removal of the carrier, FFS just stop it already, atleast allow it to have combat ships in its bay with ammo, and allow us to expand the Corp hangar with a mod , so if we choose to use it for logistics then we take away from it's DPS, this nerf will only hurt the small guy's out there its just gettn harder for them to live in 0.0 specially deep 0.0, 47 jumps in a freighter and back will take 10 hrs , wth kinda fun will that be for 40+ Pod Pilots
I am starting to really thing I am wasting my fun time with this game, the only thing keeping me here is the guys I have being playing this game with for 3 years, but the fact that I am wasting my isk and time invested, training for this ship, it's making me sick,If this goes through, Thank you CCP for messing up a good thing.
------------
|
Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 19:58:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Montaire I've not seen those cargo containers seeded, but I've seen items like them floating around the DB for a while. I doubt they will restrict the Rorq's cargo this way.
The Capital Industrial Ship should be better than a carrier at hauling. Much like an Itteron 5 is better at hauling than a Raven
This has nothing to do with hauling capabilities. IT's the fact that suddenly, without warning, a fortnight before a major expansion, CCP have said "Oh, you can't use this anymore. Bye!". Rorquals are now (finally) better haulers than carriers, as are the new jump freighters. CCP should leave carriers alone and allow rorquals and JFreighters to take over the logistics role naturally and then think about adjusting the mechanics of the ship maintenance bays, instead of forcing it on us and grinding just about all 0.0 logistics to an immediate halt.
Ideally, they shouldnt even need to adjust the ship maintenance bays - ships SHOULD be able to have cargo in their bays, otherwise the entire role of transporting assembled, combat-ready ships to a combat zome is useless. You end up having to waste fuel space for the ammos of the ships inside and you have to waste time doling out that ammo every time someone needs a ship. CCP need to stop plain outright nerfing things and instead need to move towards encouragement and buffs of alternatives.
|
Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 20:09:00 -
[150]
I won't make any assumptions either way on "logistics 'nerfs'", but I think it'd be a good idea for CCP to release a new dev blog soon on the changes to logistics, mineral compression, and POS maintenance. Everyone is curious to know what planned changes are on the table even if they're still a work in progress, they would like to know what's the reasoning behind it and the overall goal, and they would like to know what preparations they will have to make to adapt in time.
I prefer to remain more-or-less neutral when it comes to compression and logistics "nerfs", though I must admit that I tend to lean towards the view that it could be good for the game in the long term. From what little I have seen in the "crystal ball" on Singularity, it is clear that CCP is very responsibly taking some steps to both soften the blow and accommodate different playstyles while "nerfing" logistics.
My only concern is whether or not the players will be ready and able to switch gears by release day. I am sure many players would appreciate some information on the scope of the changes so that they can plan accordingly, myself included. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 21 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |