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Stormdeath
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Posted - 2007.10.28 14:13:00 -
[1]
Okay frist off let me say I am freaking out over the DEVS assassinating Compression. Which is complete wrong.
However they are going to give us industrials a new avenue to continue to move massive amounts of minerals into and out of 0.0. The real problem I am having is that nobody knows anything about the skill requirments that will be needed or the cost of the new ship. Depending on who you ask it is very different.
CCP can you please finalize the skills and rough cost. Then let people know before you drop this bomb shell that you are going to destory a fundamental part of someones game. Seriuosly it is the least you can do.
Lastly 2 of the nasty rumors I have heard about the JF that I would like to weight in on.
1. Needing Freighter Lvl V. WOW where to start. First off to fly Carrier you need Carrier Lvl III. To fly a mothership you only need one more skills higher than a Carrier. JF are not going to be supper caps. well at least I hope not, so making one that hard to fly is really not necassary. Please gives us at least that much of a break.
2. JF are being designed more towards the alliance use rather than a indivdual pilots use. I hear that this is primarly thru pricing. I really am hoping this is not true and that JF will be priced around the 1-2.5b isk range. Anything more is going to make it very difficult for people that are not BOB or Blood Sucking Alliance Leadership to get one. While EVE really is a single person game geared towards group cooperation and team work, players really need the ability to grow and function on there own to some degree.
Stormdeath
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fatwhiteguy
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 16:50:00 -
[2]
good post
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Sigras
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Posted - 2007.10.28 20:01:00 -
[3]
good post however,
JFs will be T2 not tier 2 so your comparison between carriers and moms is irrelevant, also, that being said, with the new way T2 stuff gets into the game, that means these are all going to be invented
and as we all know
invented = expensive
that being said, expect these things to be WAY more expensive than their T1 counterpart as it would take some seriously stupid ppl to lose one of these, and one would bear to wonder where such stupid ppl got the money to afford one
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zacuis
Darkest Knights
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.10.28 21:23:00 -
[4]
frieghter 5 sounds pretty standard as a skill req u need crusier 5 for hac bs 5 for the new t2 bs`s dont understnd why this one would be different.
cant agree more on the price tho it needs to be in the 1 -2 bill range
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Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.10.28 21:36:00 -
[5]
T1 Battleships cost around 100mil.
T1 Freighters cost nearly a billion.
T2 Battleships are going to cost more than 500mil to invent and construct in addition to the T1 BS used in production.
T2 Freighters should therefore be expected to cost at least 500mil to invent and construct, possibly much much more, in addition to using a T1 version for the build.
So minimum price is 1,5bil to 2 bil
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk! |
Michuh
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:17:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Aykido
So minimum price is 1,5bil to 2 bil
Thats rather optimistic. 
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Verite Rendition
Caldari
AUS Corporation
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 00:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Michuh
Originally by: Aykido
So minimum price is 1,5bil to 2 bil
Thats rather optimistic.
Yeah, multiply it by 5 or so. They'll be expensive to invent and furthermore the rarity will drive the price way up.
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AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic
EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD |
Cain Calzon
Caldari
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.29 00:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Cain Calzon on 29/10/2007 00:39:37
yeah, its gonna be a pure hell to get an JF. since there wont be BPOs released for these ships the only way is to invent them. and the copying time on a normal freighter today is over 6 weeks(with best copying skills, 8 weeks without), and thats for a 1 single run bpc. if CCP is going through with this plan they seriously needs to reduce the copying time on normal freighters by alot
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Stormdeath
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Posted - 2007.10.29 00:55:00 -
[9]
Okay so after hearing what you guys said, here is where we are.
1. Jump Freighter will be T2, hard to invent and take alot of time to make a single one maybe 2-2.5 months per BPO that is out there for the T1 freighter.
2. Due to the High copy time and building requirments JF are going to be rare and very expensive.
Okay so the only conclusion I can reach from this is that CCP has once again completly screwed the little guy and made another toy for the uber players to use to further seperate the classes of players in EVE. This is one of those times where I wonder why I pay to be screwed over, when my family will do it for free. 
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mamolian
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.29 01:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Stormdeath
Okay so the only conclusion I can reach from this is that CCP has once again completly screwed the little guy and made another toy for the uber players to use to further seperate the classes of players in EVE. This is one of those times where I wonder why I pay to be screwed over, when my family will do it for free.
Pretty much.. But hey! Soon with all these disenfranchised mommy (I would consider myself one of these people  ) to be pilots, might see the benefits to investing the 8-10 (estimated but I'll be surprised if its t2 and cheaper tbh..) Bill isk on a Tech 2 Freighter instead!
Hopefully.. CCP will seed the bpos on the market, and make these jump freighters tier2.. not tech 2.. Because ship invention just falls on its face for cruiser invention.. nevermind capital class invention. And all those folks with max Mechanical Engineering agents can really just **** right off tbh..
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:07:00 -
[11]
It had better NOT be T2 or nobody but bob will have one.
200+ million isk per invention attempt in cores and decrypters, only a ~5% chance of success, 6 weeks to run off a copy from a billion isk bpo? Cost to get a bpc on average: 4 billion isk. Time to get a bpc on average: 2.3 YEARS. Even getting 9 runs out of the bpc with the best decrypter, that's 444 million per run just in invention costs. Add ~400 million in t2 components, and a billion for the base freighter and you are looking at a production cost of close to 2 billion. With the sheer amount of time and luck required just to get a bpc sometime before eve servers shut down and we are all on to something else, we will be lucky to see a dozen of them exist at all in game within a year's time. Being that rare, they will surly have a price point somewhere around 15 billion isk.
All of this just means that nobody will bother using them, preferring rorquals and carriers instead.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:16:00 -
[12]
First, you will use 1-run copies in invention, not max-run copies.
It just takes too long and they are way too expensive for that.
Second, using 9-bonus-run decryptor is not just counter-productive, it's downright stupid, not only do you get nasty ME on it (and the component price HURTS badly), but also you get at best 10% invention chance, if even that much.
The best ones to use MIGHT be the 4-bonus-runs ones, but only if you want to get A result faster (almost 1/3 invention chance), since you still get a lousy ME on the end-product... so, not that good.
The most cost-effective ones overall for T2 freighters are definetely the 2-bonus-runs ones, with no extra ME penality and only a mild decrease in invention chance (so, around one out of 5 attempts succesfull getting 2 runs, not one out of 10 like with the 9-bonus-runs one).
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1|2|3 |
Paddlefoot Aeon
Neogen Industries
Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:36:00 -
[13]
The best arguement against T2 capital ships filling a role that current capital ships fill is the BPC time. With current invention mechanics (failure/success rate of ship invention), getting a ship invention 1/4 of the time is pretty standard.
So, this means that you are going to need:
A. one print running 4 copies 1 run each (4*6 weeks)
or
B. have 4 prints running one copy, one run each (6 weeks, 4 jobs running concurrently)
Either way, there will be a large logistical void left by the carrier, and a long time until the new freighters are able to fill it.
However, there is another option.
1. Release the Jump Freighter as a standard Capital BPO.
2. In addition to the current component cost, the Jump freigher requires additional components (Capital Jump Drive, extra Capital Power Generators, for example), increasing the build cost.
3. Make the pre-req Freighters 4
4. Give it the same jump range as a Dread.
It will need jump skills, so for the standard hauling alt, it will take some training. Existing carrier pilots, on the other hand, will be able to skill for it fairly easily, as I assume most of them have at least racial industrial 5 due to having cargo holds full of haulers for the past 2 years.
This will minimize the logistical vacuum that will arise from the carrier losing its hauling capacity, as well.
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prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:44:00 -
[14]
our current best estimate which is total guess-work at this point
the current build cost would be somewhere around 5-8 bils per freighter
because you may need
a t-1 freighter to invent and another to build plus failures
-datacores OMG
-t-2 materials OMG
unless something is done to make it easier or these just become tier 2 instead of tech 2 freighters your looking at one pricey SOB
signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques(mods@ccpgames.com)
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
First, you will use 1-run copies in invention, not max-run copies.
It just takes too long and they are way too expensive for that.
For freighters, 1 run IS max, and takes 6 weeks to make.
Originally by: Akita T
Second, using 9-bonus-run decryptor is not just counter-productive, it's downright stupid, not only do you get nasty ME on it (and the component price HURTS badly), but also you get at best 10% invention chance, if even that much.
The best ones to use MIGHT be the 4-bonus-runs ones, but only if you want to get A result faster (almost 1/3 invention chance), since you still get a lousy ME on the end-product... so, not that good.
The most cost-effective ones overall for T2 freighters are definetely the 2-bonus-runs ones, with no extra ME penality and only a mild decrease in invention chance (so, around one out of 5 attempts succesfull getting 2 runs, not one out of 10 like with the 9-bonus-runs one).
Base invention chance using a 1 run bpc and no t1 base item is around 5%, so no, you won't be seeing one out of 5 attempts work. Adding a freighter to the invention job might get your chance of success up to 10%, but at more than triple the cost per invention.
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John McDuff
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:13:00 -
[16]
The thing i am most worried about is the role these ships seem to be intended for. The carrier nerf will make these ships next to useless for the logistics work they are widely being used for, and counted upon. I understand that these jump freighters are to take that role, in all honestly a lot more logical. Problem is, on patch day the carriers drop out of service and it will be weeks before these new jump freighters are available to enough people in sustainable amounts to take over the logistics. Especially the fact that they need to be invented, being t2, will put a big delay on their general availability.
Any thoughts?
---
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Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
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F2C MaDMaXX
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:48:00 -
[17]
FYI, look under the variations tab of the T1 freighters on SISI, there you will have your answers to the new jump freighters.
______________________________________
Natural Selection Developer
Sound FX
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
FYI, look under the variations tab of the T1 freighters on SISI, there you will have your answers to the new jump freighters.
Or just find them in market browser under Ships -> Jump Freighters ;-)
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