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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Plyn
Random Jedi Industries KRYSIS.
15
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Posted - 2012.01.26 21:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1 for change local.
Since everyone is throwing their two cents in, I'd like it if...:
Local displays number of people in a system, but not who they are or their affiliation in any way, unless they are foolish enough to start talking. Like a wormhole, except you know that other people are or aren't there in general.
Intel is gathered through scanning. Not necessarily probe scanning. D-SCAN provides the name of ship, the shiptype at 360 degrees. Let it start getting more specific intel if you actually narrow on someone. If you get someone at 90 degrees, have it reveal if war target or not, alliance name at 30, etc. etc. You get the idea, the numbers aren't important at this point and we can hash out those details later.
This means that people will see someone is in system with them. They scan... Maybe your alliance all uses the same prefix on ship names, so you see he has the same prefix and you feel safe.... Or do you? Could that be a goon who just happened to put KRY. in front of their name? You'll have to decide whether to actually spend a second gathering that intel.
Once you have the person's details, stuff starts to appear in local. When all you have is the most base level, there is a generic name, and it mentions the ship type and ship name next to it. As you get more info it starts to become more specific, until you reach the full level of intel on that person, at which point they appear in local as normal.
Once the person leaves the system, any data you gathered on them is lost. This benefits and hurts both parties the same way. I know that enemy left the system, which is handy. He knows he can change his ship name and jump back in, and I have no way to know it was him. Come2Nullsec |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
385
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Posted - 2012.01.26 22:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'd prefer an intel tool over an omniscient local chat list.
My support for change isn't unqualified, however. I'd like to know what the intel tool is capable of, how easy (in terms of interface, not player skill) it is to use, and the underlying design philosophy.
Dscan is great, but it seems like a lot of needless clicking. I don't think the hamsters benefit from a mechanic that encourages button spam. |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
146
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Posted - 2012.01.26 22:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Local should be a chat channel, not an early warning system.
A middle ground between w-space local and current local should be the norm for all of k-space. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
155
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Posted - 2012.01.27 01:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shaalira D'arc wrote:I'd prefer an intel tool over an omniscient local chat list.
My support for change isn't unqualified, however. I'd like to know what the intel tool is capable of, how easy (in terms of interface, not player skill) it is to use, and the underlying design philosophy.
Dscan is great, but it seems like a lot of needless clicking. I don't think the hamsters benefit from a mechanic that encourages button spam.
I'm pretty sure most of the "create an intel tool" supporters qualify their support based on whether a "balanced" intel tool can actually be created. What constitutes as balanced also changes with everyone's Point of View. I tried to lay out general guidelines for what would be balanced.... It's a non-trivial task to actually implement it! |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
99
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Posted - 2012.01.27 02:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
I would prefer an intel tool like radar/sonar. If you run it in active mode, you send out fo signal (automatically or manually, your choice) and anything in range can be detected with modifiers for signature radius and mods (ECCM). Object near celestials are harder to discern. In a passive mode the you can detect other ship's signals... which effectively are double the range that they can detect you in active mode. Your ship speed will increase your chances of detection. Being stationary will reduce it.
We already compare EvE to a sub sim, why not take the next step. Such a system would surely be cause of a new set of tactics.
(anything to get away from spamming D-Scan FFS)
-Mad I know I left a battleship in this station. Wait, you can put ships in Station Containers? ****! I just trashed them. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
228
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Posted - 2012.01.27 02:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Despite what some will say, instant local doesn't facilitate combat. Most combat does not happen because of local, it happens despite it. The only thing that instant local facilitates is botting. And that includes the ideas about local showing instant in-system count.
I wish CCP Grayscale would get off the dime already and start on the whole intel rework, including delayed local and the replacement intel tools. |
Ganagati
Perkone Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2012.01.27 02:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Coming from Shadowbane, another PvP anywhere/drop your inventory when ya die game, I like Local how it is. Reminds me of track. I liked track.
Seriously, though, I don't mind the current local. I can see why people would want it changed... personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it become a module you have to fit to your ship. Fit the module, lose a low or mid slot but gain the ability to see everyone in the sector. /shrug |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
186
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Posted - 2012.01.27 02:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Intel tool (minus point A GÇö it shouldn't alert you at all, but rather give you data to analyse so you can alert yourself).
I would like this.
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Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
379
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Posted - 2012.01.27 03:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
i think local in nullsec needs a change, but not sure how it should be done. |
Selinate
609
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Posted - 2012.01.27 04:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think a new system with intel about who's entering or leaving the constellation would be interesting, so long as it has ways that one might bypass it and not show up.... |
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Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
271
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Posted - 2012.01.27 04:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Yeah. I want a chat function that's so overloaded the game crashes every time I log. Nothing like an avalanche of impertinent information to wade through, right?
Vote for me for CSM. I have a cluttered mind, but don't CARE! Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Alouette Bistrot
FOXH0UND Outer Heaven
0
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Posted - 2012.01.27 05:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'd like to see local a destructable object in null, and perhaps a module you can fit to a ship that isn't quite like local but a more powerful dscan.
that and fix the damn angle selector, perhaps provide visual feedback on the cone of angle.
besides that, combat probes and dscan can provide some pretty good intel as it is. |
Khrage
90
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Posted - 2012.01.27 05:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
no idea how it would work, but i am not a fan of the whole local mechanic in null. or i'm more of a fan of the lack there of local in WH space. maybe at the very depths of null, like -0.9 ish space gets effectively crappier stargates that don't record/post in local when people come through. but it's an idea. because as much as i love WHs, i'm not the kind of player that likes dealing with the whole POS setup/warfare stuff. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1698
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Posted - 2012.01.27 05:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Leave local the way it is.
Delayed local will just be another blow to an already dying nullsec. |
Ai Shun
189
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Posted - 2012.01.27 06:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Do you prefer the omniscient, instantaneous Local Chat we have now? [ 7 For Keep Local ] or Would you prefer a more balanced intel system? [ 16 Replace Local with an Intel Tool ] By balanced, I mean a system that:
- A.) Alerts you quickly (not necessarily instantly) to the presence of all potential threats in space.
- B.) Leaves some ambiguity as to whether a potential threat is a friend or foe until you get intel on it.
- C.) Doesn't nerf the cloak out of play, nor boost it into the God of Hunting.
This F&I thread is my idea of a more balanced intel system. That's not the point of this thread though. I'm really just curious whether people think "local is fine as is", or if they want something different assuming a balance between predator and prey, cloakies, and the intelligence gathering mechanics can be achieved.
I would prefer a balanced Intel Tool, supported by ships, skills and modules that facilitate gathering of that Intel.
I do not want any automatic mechanism to alert anyone to any ship in a system.
I would however support a gate or proximity warning mechanism for regions where alliances hold sovereignty; as long as those structures and objects are destructible.
And no delayed Local, please. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
160
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Posted - 2012.01.27 06:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
yes and no. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
378
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Posted - 2012.01.27 06:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:yes and no. Because binary poll responses are too mainstream? |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
57
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Posted - 2012.01.27 06:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Local Chat should just be a chat and nothing more, remove it's intel functions.
Slight improvements to DScanner to compensate, (but not replicate) for Local's Intel functions being removed. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1700
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Local Chat should just be a chat and nothing more, remove it's intel functions.
Slight improvements to DScanner to compensate, (but not replicate) for Local's Intel functions being removed.
nah andski for csm7~ |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
27
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
heh if they aren't on Mumble they are a foe :p
Delayed local is superior, all space should be wh space. +welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1700
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Emiko Luan wrote:heh if they aren't on Mumble they are a foe :p
Delayed local is superior, all space should be wh space.
okay
make all systems accessible only through wormholes, remove gates and delete supercapitals
then all space will be w-space
that's an acceptable compromise andski for csm7~ |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
216
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Andski I don't think anyone wants to see a delayed local in null, or anyone serious anyways. I think that local is a little limiting in its design though.
I liked Grath's point about an intel system that rewards people who good at eve and penalizes people who are bad rather than handing everything to you on a platter. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1700
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
being good at eve is efficiently spamming dscan
yes let's reduce spatial awareness to tedium andski for csm7~ |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
216
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
Never said I wanted carpal tunnel. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
261
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
hey can I shut off the nearby stargate when I hear intel about some fleet of reds riding up to mess up my ratting fortress? |
Halcyon Ingenium
Infomorph Research and Technology
134
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
I would prefer it if they got rid of local and introduced everyone to d-scan, which is sufficient enough as an intel tool. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
159
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Posted - 2012.01.27 07:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Andski wrote:Leave local the way it is.
Delayed local will just be another blow to an already dying nullsec.
I didn't suggest turning local into WH delayed local...
I suggested replacing local with an intel system based on premises to moderately balance it.
Are there particular premises that you think are problematic?
- A.) Alerts you quickly (not necessarily instantly) to the presence of all potential threats in space.
- B.) Leaves some ambiguity as to whether a potential threat is a friend or foe until you get intel on it.
- C.) Doesn't nerf the cloak out of play, nor boost it into the God of Hunting.
From some of your snarky comments, i assume you think local is perfect as is, or is it you just don't think any alternatives are feasible?
10-26 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1701
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Posted - 2012.01.27 08:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:From some of your snarky comments, i assume you think local is perfect as is, or is it you just don't think any alternatives are feasible?
10-26
local is fine as it is
it tells you who is in the system with you and nothing else
I really don't get the obsession with wanting to screw with it without a single forethought of its consequences. You should not be able to move through a system with active, vigilant players undetected, or have your presence be indistinguishable from blue traffic. andski for csm7~ |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
159
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Posted - 2012.01.27 08:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Andski wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:From some of your snarky comments, i assume you think local is perfect as is, or is it you just don't think any alternatives are feasible?
10-26 local is fine as it is it tells you who is in the system with you and nothing else I really don't get the obsession with wanting to screw with it without a single forethought of its consequences. You should not be able to move through a system with active, vigilant players undetected, or have your presence be indistinguishable from blue traffic.
Personally, I think replacing local with an intel system opens up several new interesting game mechanics. I disagree with some of your sentiments, however, I fully acknowledge that any change must be carefully examined for imbalances and abuses. Local is perhaps the most important tool in the game for nullsec PvP, and poorly altering it into a fail intel system would have disastrous consequences for the entire game... |
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
204
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Posted - 2012.01.27 08:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
Local as it is feels very artificial.
The manual clickfest D-scan as it is now is hopeless though, why can't it be automated like a radar? Perhaps a 10-25AU range radar would be a lot better and realistic. |
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