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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:59:00 -
[31]
astarte is the best all around.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.01 23:06:00 -
[32]
The sleipnir and nighthawk are the most versitile and consistent field commands you will find.
The sleipnir will have to run from a sacriledge, its just a weakness to missile ships that most minmitar have.
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Packe
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.03 12:23:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Xequecal
Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:36:46
Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:35:18
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Originally by: Xequecal
Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:25:45
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from.
Sacrilege will destroy a Sleipnir. A gank fitted Sleip only does like 60 DPS to it, seriously.
I think you forgot a zero somewhere.
Sleipnir with 7x 425mm autos, Barrage, 3x Gyrostab, and 4x Hammerhead II does 701 DPS. 313 explosive, 261 kinetic, 127 thermal.
Standard Sac nano fit is 2x MAR II, 2x OD II, EANM. After those resists, Sleipnir does (313 * 0.112) + (261 * 0.211) + (127 * 0.366) = 136.5 DPS. Ok, I did kind of exaggerate on the DPS there, but that amount of DPS is EASILY reppable by 2x MAR II, and the Sac can run them for a LONG time.
Note that this is 136.5 DPS at OPTIMAL. You won't be at optimal. You will be into falloff and do substantially less than this.
EDIT: What do you mean the "missiles won't hit?" Nano-sac is faster than you, that means it can web you.
You would want to use Fleet Phased Plasma against Amarr resists
Damage at optimum becomes 600*0.366 thermal + 120*0.211 kinetic = 244 dps after armor resists.
2x MAR II give about 640/9 hp/sec = 71 hp per second repped - note that barrage does 65 dps over this, where as fleet plasma does 173.. almost 2.5 times more damage above the tank.
1741 shield hps takes about 5 secs; 2730 armor hps last longer, 170 dps against 2730 hps, maybe 17 secs, hull lasts 3 secs.
Sacrilege can tank this damage when the sleip is putting out about 80 dps ... deep into falloff, at about 25-30km
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Liet Traep
Minmatar
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.03 15:12:00 -
[34]
Back on Armageddon Day on test server I tested a sacrilege against someone else in a sleipnir. With both of us having max skills I was able to easily tank his damage while breaking his shield tank. I would avoid getting close to a sac while in sleipnir nless the odds were heavily stacked in your favor. It's tank is pretty obscene and finally with the khanid changes it's a fearsome ship. If the damnation was a field command instead of a fleet command it would be THE top command ship. Ammar t2 armor tanks + caldari missile tech is pretty narsty.
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Karandor
Minmatar
Wildlands Heavy Technologies
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2007.11.03 16:37:00 -
[35]
Soloing in a command ship is a bit silly IMO. There are many HACS that may not have the DPS but have much higher survivability which is what you need when soloing. 1 Vagabond finds you in almost any CS fit and you'll be held down until his friends arrive. Same goes for a huginn or rapier or arazu or even a falcon. I don't know where people are soloing in command ships but in the space I fly in it is pretty much suicide.
Don't ***** about having to train a lot of skills until you fly minmatar. |
Temp Boi
Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.03 19:05:00 -
[36]
Vagas get shredded by Sleipnirs. They have the same falloff, therefore they'll both be hitting eachother, except the Sleipnir has an excellent tank, while the vaga simply has a hitpoint buffer. Also, 7 guns > 5 guns; that vaga wouldn't last 30 seconds.
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Panteroid
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.11.03 19:08:00 -
[37]
Unless you have an idiotic pilot.. Abso > Astarte anyday of the week. Period.
I do agree with the survivability of the sleip. I still don't agree that it is the best command ship though. They all have their strong points. And as far as tank and gank capabilities go.. it is the Abso.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.11.03 20:10:00 -
[38]
Its your playing style...
sleip-hugeass vagabond.
astarte-deimos but with a tank.
absolution-more towards tank then gank but does both.
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Galen Silas
Gallente
Lucky Hydra Corp
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.04 07:00:00 -
[39]
I like the versatility of the Eos, it has many purposes and capabilities but I got curious and now I am looking forward to flying my damnation. So I am kinda iffy on it for now.
Yes, i love stating my opinion... because people don't like it! |
Sandzibarr
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.04 09:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Galen Silas
I like the versatility of the Eos, it has many purposes and capabilities
Not for long... 
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Lady Gadiva
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.06 11:18:00 -
[41]
Seriously, who gives a sh!t. All the command ships rock.
Command ships > All other ships in Eve.
I love the Absolution, it's the only Command Ship this char can fly. But would I fly it solo? Let's say I did and I dropped my web for a point. Okay, so I'm going to kill a Nighthawk. The Sleipnir is going to either kill me or warp away of which there is a 50/50 chance tbh). I'm going to kill a rail Astarte but a blaster Astarte is going to web me and pwn me.
There is no best Field Command Ship. They are all awesome.
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Lady Gadiva
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.06 11:20:00 -
[42]
Just give the Abso its 4th mid-slot and we won't have to endure this question any longer. 
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20
Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk
Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk
Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk
PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso
Overall best: Sleipnir
When you fall, you fall hard. How is the Minmatar training going Deschenus?
Solo, does not exist but Astarte because you can kill your target before the friends come.
Small Gang, Absolution. You will not get called primary and still do massive damage.
Large Gang, Nighthawk. Lets face it, they are roxorz.
PvE, buy a raven, its faster then any of these.
In all seriousness, all the command ships are very well balanced, but overall, the Sleph has the weakest tank, for the least damage of the 4. But it can run - like all Minmatar ships.
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Almarez
Setenta Corp
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.11.06 14:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: BludThirst
Edited by: BludThirst on 01/11/2007 19:07:34
Okay, so nighthawk is best solo PvE field command. How about the best solo PvP???
And also resons why.
Is the astarte going to be hit hard by the drone nerf the way the Eos has been???
People criticize the Nighthawk for its lack of DPS but I'll tell you what, that ship can be set up with the best tank out of all of the field command ships (passive tank nonetheless) making it immune to cap warfare and with fof's it can be immune to EW also. If you really want solo PVP then the Astarte is hands down the best because of the raw damage of blasters and the decently sized drone bay.
News flash: Alliance losing members at an astounding rate but it's okay cause I just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to Geiko.
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Prevelance
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.06 17:38:00 -
[45]
I think any of the feild command ships can be deady, but some require a tackler to be used to there full potential, specifically the sheild tankers.
Don't discount the nighthawks damage when fitted with 3-4 bcu II's and good skills, it can tear through pretty much any battleship as long as the nighthawk isn't primaried the whole fight. And thats with heavy's, heavy assalts on the other hand, would be very nice damage indeed if gank fitted.
And also, the sleipnir is versatile, sure it has limited mids, but you dont need many slots for T2 minnie sheild tanks.
Yea you can speed fit it to go 4.5k without snakes, but you can also damage/tank fit it and go close range Hail and 3-4 gyro II's with web, and then tell me it cant stack up to the astarte's damage and still tank great.
It's all about the pilot/ skill/ fitting
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Lorz0r
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Posted - 2007.12.09 16:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20
Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk
Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk
Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk
PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso
Overall best: Sleipnir
When you fall, you fall hard. How is the Minmatar training going Deschenus?
Solo, does not exist but Astarte because you can kill your target before the friends come.
Small Gang, Absolution. You will not get called primary and still do massive damage.
Large Gang, Nighthawk. Lets face it, they are roxorz.
PvE, buy a raven, its faster then any of these.
In all seriousness, all the command ships are very well balanced, but overall, the Sleph has the weakest tank, for the least damage of the 4. But it can run - like all Minmatar ships.
lol what? you would really hope the sleipnir was at least doing more DPS than a nighthawk or there is something seriously wrong. It can be fitted (sacrificing tank as with all things) for some extreme DPS...
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.09 16:21:00 -
[47]
As has been said before and let me re-iterate: Nighthawk is the most versatile. Longest range, ability to do damage to largest variety of targets, strongest cap warfare immune tank, and FOF's to ignore EW as well. Its consistency is the selling point. That it is the slowest and does the least DPS are the downsides.
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Verlaine Glariant
Knights of the Flame
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.09 16:40:00 -
[48]
There is a vast difference of opinions. However, I'd go with Nighthawk with no doubt. Best overall tank and nice DPS. No tracking issues due to missile usage and of course the ubahpowerful Caldari agility bonus (courtesy of CCP).
Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
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Vathar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.09 17:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Temp Boi
Vagas get shredded by Sleipnirs. They have the same falloff, therefore they'll both be hitting eachother, except the Sleipnir has an excellent tank, while the vaga simply has a hitpoint buffer. Also, 7 guns > 5 guns; that vaga wouldn't last 30 seconds.
well, the poster mentionned tank you until his friends arrive, I would assume that this means orbitting far enought from the sleip to reduce damage with fallof, and also with mwd on to reduce damage with "vaga-like" speed.
Sure the vaga won't deal damage, no big deal since it can't really hurt the sleipnir by itself, but it can probably reduce damage enough to tank the sleip until his mates come, which is what the aboveposter suggested.
Originally by: Radeberger
If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts[/qu |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.09 17:50:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
When you fall, you fall hard. How is the Minmatar training going Deschenus?
Going very well, thank you. Still need to work on my shield tank and nav skills, but it's coming along.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Solo, does not exist
I beg to differ, considering I used to solo in my Absolution.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Small Gang, Absolution. You will not get called primary and still do massive damage.
Small gangs are best served by ships who can do massive damage at close range while keeping the target scramed and webbed (Astarte) or by ships that can do good damage whilst providing gang links to remain highly mobile (Sleipnir). The Absolution falls in neither categories.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Large Gang, Nighthawk. Lets face it, they are roxorz.
Target will be dead before your missiles hit, and the big tank isn't going to be of much help if you're the last one to die (no one primaries NHs).
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
PvE, buy a raven, its faster then any of these.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
In all seriousness, all the command ships are very well balanced, but overall, the Sleph has the weakest tank, for the least damage of the 4. But it can run - like all Minmatar ships.
Erm, where are you getting your numbers? In a practical setup, the Sleipnir has the second highest damage output (after the Astarte) and the second stongest tank (behing the Nighthawl) AND it's the fastest. Oh, and it can actually fit a gang mod without too much effort. The only thing I don't like about them is that they are ******* expensive.
D-F-C recruitment closed |
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Drezzster
The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2007.12.09 18:10:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Drezzster on 09/12/2007 18:10:54
Why is everyone saying that soloing in a cs is suicide? Are you all only referring to 0.0?
For piracy they are ideal, just because they are so powerful, as long as you pick solo targets...
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Vaine Amarr
Amarr
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.12.09 20:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lady Gadiva
Seriously, who gives a sh!t. All the command ships rock.
Command ships > All other ships in Eve.
I love the Absolution, it's the only Command Ship this char can fly. But would I fly it solo? Let's say I did and I dropped my web for a point. Okay, so I'm going to kill a Nighthawk. The Sleipnir is going to either kill me or warp away of which there is a 50/50 chance tbh). I'm going to kill a rail Astarte but a blaster Astarte is going to web me and pwn me.
There is no best Field Command Ship. They are all awesome.
If you take midslots out of account, the abolution would beat the sleipnir, astarte, and eos up close. Sleipnir wins on longer range combat, aka 15+ km. Trust me, I've done the duels.
__________________________
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
O rly? |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.09 20:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vaine Amarr
If you take midslots out of account, the abolution would beat the sleipnir, astarte, and eos up close.
I can't see any situation where that might be true (for the Astarte).
D-F-C recruitment closed |
Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.09 20:37:00 -
[54]
lot of eft warriors in this thread talking about paper matchups with no consideration for ingame performance.
first off, all these people saying that a nano sac with two mar's can take out a sleip, its debatable if it could od it when they are both sitting still, but if a sleip tries to run and hoses the nano sac while running the nano sac is gonna be out of cap real fast running two mars and an mwd. In which case it can run away, also you need to have an understanding of how the tank on a sleip works, even with 5 hams you would not have to pulse the shield booster that often to tank that dmg. Whish means the sleips large cap compared to a cruiser sized cap will keep that booster going for a long time.
lets also not forget that a nano sleip will run circles around a nano sac that just has two overdrives for its speed....
and finally if you engage near a gate the sleip can by far tank the dmg to deagress and jump through.
so the phrase can kill everything it cant run away from holds true.
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mallina
Caldari
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2007.12.09 21:16:00 -
[55]
Edited by: mallina on 09/12/2007 21:17:24
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Vaine Amarr
If you take midslots out of account, the abolution would beat the sleipnir, astarte, and eos up close.
I can't see any situation where that might be true (for the Astarte).
You'd be suprised. Absolution has a significantly more resiliant tank than the Astarte and is still capable of dealing heavy damage. I've 1v1ed Astartes in my Abso on numerous occasions and I don't even have CS 5.
IMO the Astarte is overhyped. It's minimal range and poor speed (particually with armour rigs) leaves it incredibly vunerable to anything that moves faster than it (that also has better range) and is a poor choice for ops outside lowsec. It can't do a thing to speed tankers since it simply can't get in webrange and isn't able to deal any significant damage outside it. I'd even go as far as to say it's the worst Field Command Ship for 0.0 PvP. It has DPS, sure, but what's really the point if it can't be applied?
Seriously, I would MUCH rather Abso and Slieps in a gang over Astartes. I suppose the Nighthawk can be useful too if any of their pilots had the guts to put BCUs on the damn thing instead of SPRs.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.09 21:39:00 -
[56]
I really dont understand how a ship with only 3 mid slots (Absolution) can beat any of the other CS's in a one on one.
Ideally you would need MWD,Web,Scram,Cap injector.
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 23:12:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20
Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk
Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk
Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk
PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso
Overall best: Sleipnir
I disagree,
For solo, if such a thing did exist in eve, the Astarte is the hands down best because it does the most damage - second is the Sleph because it fits a warp jammer - neither the Nighthawk nor the Absolution should fit a warp jammer - so they don't solo.
For Small Gangs - The Astart and Absolution tie in this cagagory - The Astarte because it will kill things, the Absolution because it can cover a large area with crysstals and put out a lot of damage. The Nighthawk comes in third for the same reasons as the Absolution, and FoFs. The last place is the Sleph because while its dps is ok (third best) and its tank is ok (worst of the four), its only redeaming feature is its speed. But its not a vegabond by any means. Ultimatly, it will flee (because it will get primaried) and spend a lot of time keeping itself alive.
Large Gang: Absolution is hands down the strongest because its beam setup is so powerful. The Nighthawk come in second because Heavy Missles, the Astart comes in third because its actually an 'ok' rail boat (but its a waste to fit rails) and last is the Slpeh because Arti slephs have too sacrifice too much tank and speed to fit a proper 720HII setup.
PvE - Best tank = Best ship. Nighthawk, Absolution, Astarte, Sleph.
Ultimatly, the command ships are probably the best balanced ship class in the game. I know that any of them can beat any of the other ones given good skills and good tactics. But the idea that the slpeh is the best is simply a foolish idea, DPS and a very short lived shield tank are its weakness, high speed and the ability to rep a lot of damage for a short time is its strength. The other ships each have their weakness' and strengths. But in a fight where running was not an option, I would pick the Astarte and Absolution because they do the most damage and have a good enough tank to kill the opponent.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.09 23:31:00 -
[58]
Originally by: mallina
You'd be suprised. Absolution has a significantly more resiliant tank than the Astarte and is still capable of dealing heavy damage. I've 1v1ed Astartes in my Abso on numerous occasions and I don't even have CS 5.
I've tried it as well, and it ended with getting my ass handed to me. I've also tried it in a Sleip, which results in me getting totally owned if the Astarte gets in web range, or me totally owning the Astarte, to the point where it wasn't even funny, if I manage to keep him at range (speed ftw).
Originally by: mallina
IMO the Astarte is overhyped. It's minimal range and poor speed (particually with armour rigs) leaves it incredibly vunerable to anything that moves faster than it (that also has better range) and is a poor choice for ops outside lowsec. It can't do a thing to speed tankers since it simply can't get in webrange and isn't able to deal any significant damage outside it. I'd even go as far as to say it's the worst Field Command Ship for 0.0 PvP. It has DPS, sure, but what's really the point if it can't be applied?
Seriously, I would MUCH rather Abso and Slieps in a gang over Astartes. I suppose the Nighthawk can be useful too if any of their pilots had the guts to put BCUs on the damn thing instead of SPRs.
I completely agree with this part of your post. Astarte are low sec solo machines, but Absos, and especially Sleipnirs, are much better for 0.0 ops.
D-F-C recruitment closed |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.09 23:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
I disagree,
For solo, if such a thing did exist in eve, the Astarte is the hands down best because it does the most damage - second is the Sleph because it fits a warp jammer - neither the Nighthawk nor the Absolution should fit a warp jammer - so they don't solo.
Erm, I've soloed in my Absolution before. It's certainly not ideal a ship to do so, but it IS feasible.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
For Small Gangs - The Astart and Absolution tie in this cagagory - The Astarte because it will kill things, the Absolution because it can cover a large area with crysstals and put out a lot of damage. The Nighthawk comes in third for the same reasons as the Absolution, and FoFs. The last place is the Sleph because while its dps is ok (third best) and its tank is ok (worst of the four), its only redeaming feature is its speed. But its not a vegabond by any means. Ultimatly, it will flee (because it will get primaried) and spend a lot of time keeping itself alive.
Hmm, you may be right that the Astarte is best for small gangs, since it can fit a web and point, both very useful to a small gang. However, Sleipnir comes second because a) it does more damage than the Abso (run the numbers), b) its speed allows it to get out of dodge when you get blobbed and c) it can fit a gang link easily, which is always a boon for small gangs.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Large Gang: Absolution is hands down the strongest because its beam setup is so powerful. The Nighthawk come in second because Heavy Missles, the Astart comes in third because its actually an 'ok' rail boat (but its a waste to fit rails) and last is the Slpeh because Arti slephs have too sacrifice too much tank and speed to fit a proper 720HII setup.
Erm, all of this is assuming you use long range weapons, and while I could understand for the Nighthawk and Astarte, there's really no reason to do so with the Abso and Sleipnir.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
PvE - Best tank = Best ship. Nighthawk, Absolution, Astarte, Sleph.
Absolution is only worth a damn in Sansha/Blood missions, while the Slep can switch ammo to the proper damage types. That alone takes it above the Abso.
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Ultimatly, the command ships are probably the best balanced ship class in the game. I know that any of them can beat any of the other ones given good skills and good tactics. But the idea that the slpeh is the best is simply a foolish idea, DPS and a very short lived shield tank are its weakness, high speed and the ability to rep a lot of damage for a short time is its strength. The other ships each have their weakness' and strengths. But in a fight where running was not an option, I would pick the Astarte and Absolution because they do the most damage and have a good enough tank to kill the opponent.
Again, Sleipnir does more damage than the Abso. And its burst tank is better, which is not a bad thing.
D-F-C recruitment closed |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 23:55:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/12/2007 23:56:41
Nighthawk has two main problems - gimped PG and the fact that it does only slightly more DPS than a Drake, when both are gank-fit. As such, I can't see the point of it in pvp - it can't fit a gang mod without multiple T2 RCUs, and Drake does almost as much damage - and can tackle - for a fraction of the price.
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