| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Topic |
Lord LeBlanc
Amarr
The Society of Amarrian Industrialists
    |
Posted - 2007.11.02 02:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lord LeBlanc on 02/11/2007 02:18:26
A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to visit a station in the Bleaklands. Several hard working Ammatar builders had asked me to come and lecture about the benefits of quality control and customer service surveys. We talked awhile about the concept of organizing a business around the time honored Amarr concepts of integrity and morality. They were very receptive and I left encouraged at what I'd seen there.
On the way back I detoured through a system where I noticed several wrecked ships near a gate. Sensors detected Minmatar designs were dominant in this field of destruction. Just then a Hoarder industrial ship flew in at 15k from the gate and moved toward it. I cloaked immediately fearing it may be a trap and just then a Rupture warped in as well. Before I could even order a slow cloaked retreat a Maller appeard through the jump gate. The Amarrian vessels golden hull reflected the light from the sun and temporarily blinded me.
The Minmatar were blinded by much more.
Lasers shot out from the Maller while the Rupture pathetically tried to fire back. Fires soon appeared as the tinfoil armor of the Minmatar vessel was shreaded by the light of holy fire from the Maller. Soon the Rupture managed to move out of web distance and fled the scene under warp. The Maller then destroyed the Hoarder which had been disabled and jumped out.
A short time later while still sitting cloaked at the gate the Rupture returned. Moving slowly toward the gate the fires on board glowed brightly in the shadow of the massive stargate. Two systems over I knew was a Minmatar scrapyard station where they were probably headed for repairs. It then dawned on me the entire problem with the thinking of some pilots.
You get what you pay for.
That old addage proves true even today. Many view the Maller as a poor combat ship yet it's armor plating and power are second to none among heavy cruisers. Sure the lack of missile slots is bemoaned by some but overall it's a tough ship with a glorious history. Often I've seen the shoppers in the stations around Amarr buying cruiser class vessels at auction. The Rupture is often less expensive then the Maller and thus those purchasers are buying with their wallets and not their mind. They are forsaking the high quality armor of the Amarr Maller for the cheap bargin basement price of the Rupture.
This repeats itself time and time again with many classes of vessels. Going as far as looking at Titans where it seems every Titan built is an Avatar of the Amarr design rather than the lessor designs of other races. Those Titan pilots have found "You get what you pay for" and have chosen wisely.
As my ship moved under cloak back to Amarr space I gave much thought to the entire concept of "bargain shopping" and the trend some have to save even .01isk if they can. I consider those to be among the most poor of shoppers not financially but in terms of intelligence. Like a fine spiced wine or a nice home you do "get what you pay for" in the end.
Lord LeBlanc
SAINTS Spokesman
|
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
Naughty People
The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 05:24:00 -
[2]
While I'm inclined to dismiss this as shameless salesmanship from a starship dealer. However, if it happened at all, I'm more than somewhat confident that pilot error (in the form of poor skill or improper loadout for the circumstances) played a large part in the destruction of the Rupture. I say this because I know that even unreinforced armor is fairly resistant to the Maller's laser weapon systems, while the typical loadout of high-velocity explosive rounds that are standard for most Rupture platforms will shred the armor of even the hardiest Maller.
Tell you what. You fly a Maller, I'll fly a Rupture. We'll meet in a nice quiet place and go at it, hammer and tongs. It'll be fun. Call it a field test.
_
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
 Originally by: CCP Prism X
This topic is so full of fail >.<
|
Grr
Amarr
Epitoth Fleetyards
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:39:00 -
[3]
An excellent example of inferior Matari design and build well done Lord LeBlanc. But has to be a market for such cheap toys us matari ships.
Epitoth Fleetyards produces on average 1,220,000 tonnes of scrap waste as a by-product for the main ships. I'm pondering, could we perhaps convert this scrap into matari ships easyly and help the poorer pod pilots who can not afford quality?
 |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 05:04:00 -
[4]
I'm inclined to agree with Ledoux-haan. As a satisfied owner of many Matari ships, from the least frigates through powerful battleships, I can attest that they are more than capable of performing their missions according to the skills of their pilots.
Which is, I think, what that whole story comes down to.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 06:29:00 -
[5]
This story is a complete falsehood and an obvious fabrication on the part of a tired, washed-out hasbeen trying to make a business selling ships that have been proven to be inferior in nearly every measure by statistical analysis done by every race, even the Amarr themselves. Why do you think the Khanid constantly turn to the Caldari for inspiration?
The Avatar was at first the most popular class of Titan but it's being quickly overshadowed by the far superior Gallente Erebus. Compared to the Typhoon, all three Amarr battleships are jokes. The Drake outpaces both Amarrian battlecruisers in both durability and damage.
And then there's the problem with electromagnetic damage, which your weapon systems are known for doing. You may not have noticed but the people who really have the most to worry about from EM are the Caldari, because of their tendancy to rely completely on shields. It's a pity you're not fighting them, isn't it? Ever wondered why so few people outside of the Amarr Empire fly Amarrian ships? It's because they're not useful.
Minmatar ships that shield-tank are the only people who seriously have to worry about the impact of laser weaponary. Other than that, a Minmatar has very little to fear if he's properly set his ship up. You portray an example in which the pilot has probably misconfigured his ship. With proper modules a Rupture can outpace a Maller any day of the week - their onboard upgrades to projectile weaponary are truly deadly.
There are DED laws against false advertising and slander. I suggest you read up on them, because this article would come under them.
-----
Mixed Metaphor is now recruiting! Contact me for details. |
Imuri Tsugasa
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 07:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Imuri Tsugasa on 03/11/2007 07:13:33
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
There are DED laws against false advertising and slander. I suggest you read up on them, because this article would come under them.
I am afraid you are mistaken on this point, sir. Advertising regulations are a matter of empire jurisdiction, and to my knowledge, there is no law in any jurisdiction against qualitative claims. Quantitative claims, however, must be true in most cases, depending on the legal jurisdiction where the sale occurs.
As an example, he can say with impunity:
Amarr ships are the best.
Amarr ships are better than Minmatar ships.
Minmatar ships are junk.
Everything else is just rust!
These statements are based on the opinion of the seller, and make no guarantee of specific performance. The following examples, however, are quantitative, and must be substantiated:
SAINTS ships are all equipped with engine housings that allow speeds over 500 m/s!
SAINTS ships all provide armor ratings in excess of 3200 hp and structural integrity rated over 5000 hp!
Those sorts of claims can be tested and verified under controlled conditions, and therefore must be true for an advertisement to be legal (again, depending on the jurisdiction in which the sale transpires).
As for determining which of an advertiser's claims are qualitative, and therefore grounded in nothing but the seller's opinion, and which are quantitative, it is a case of caveat emptor. I encourage pilots to make their purchase decisions based on factual data, and their own skill at equipping their ship of choice. Please keep in mind that the seller always thinks his ship is the best on the market, and will go to great lengths to convince you to agree.
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 07:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
ships that have been proven to be inferior in nearly every measure by statistical analysis done by every race, even the Amarr themselves.
Of the CVA's top 10 ships, 7 come from Amarrian shipyards.
The top used battleship by the CVA is Amarrian.
The top used battlecruiser by the CVA is Amarrian.
The top used heavy assault cruiser by the CVA is Amarrian.
The top used interceptor by the CVA is Amarrian.
I could go on.
As an interesting counterpoint, our most popular targets are minmatar terrorists, quite well known for using minmatar vessels. Our measurable success against them is a matter of (controversial and bitter) public record.
Not quite the clear-cut disadvantage to Amarrian vessels as many would have the public to believe.
|
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 08:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
ships that have been proven to be inferior in nearly every measure by statistical analysis done by every race, even the Amarr themselves.
Of the CVA's top 10 ships, 7 come from Amarrian shipyards.
The top used battleship by the CVA is Amarrian.
The top used battlecruiser by the CVA is Amarrian.
The top used heavy assault cruiser by the CVA is Amarrian.
The top used interceptor by the CVA is Amarrian.
I could go on.
As an interesting counterpoint, our most popular targets are minmatar terrorists, quite well known for using minmatar vessels. Our measurable success against them is a matter of (controversial and bitter) public record.
Not quite the clear-cut disadvantage to Amarrian vessels as many would have the public to believe.
Statistics are meaningless unless you place them in context, your alliance is well know to be an Amarrian loyalist group, you need to look at what ships your enemies field as well, if Amarrian ships were demonstratively superior would not their use have become popular with the independent, non-empire affiliated capsuleers. Looking at DED supplied figures for both alliance and my alliances enemies provides the following information. We are not discriminatory about our members background and I assume my enemies do not discriminate either.
Ship % of kills ship participated in
Typhoon 16.62
Drake 13.71
Hurricane7.63
Myrmidon7.46
Dominix 7.28
Maelstrom7.2
Huginn 4.63
Rapier 4.37
Vagabond3.77
Thorax 3.77
Caracal 3.77
Ishtar 3.6
Tempest 3.43
Crow 3.26
Raven 3.08
Nidhoggur3.08
Megathron2.83
Ishkur 2.66
Cerberus2.49
Eagle 2.4
You will note not one single Amarrian ship in the top 20, why is it that both my alliance and my alliances enemies are reluctant to use these so called 'superior' ships. Thinking back I can recall flying alongside only one single Amarrian ship and that was a Damnation class command ship. It performed admirably enough though I believe it's pilot now favor's the Caldari Nighthawk. I'd be interested in comparing these results with others especially those that operate in a region other then the South East.
|
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
Naughty People
The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 09:19:00 -
[9]
I think we're getting a bit far afield here. I'm not making any sweeping statements about Amarrian ships in general. I'm quite willing to admit that they have their uses. However, my point is that the Rupture-class cruiser is, contrary to 'Lord' LeBlanc's statements, superior to the Maller. I have offered to put his assertation to a combat test, but I notice that he's become mysteriously absent from the discussion. It seems that some folks just don't like taking a chance on being proven wrong. Probably bad for business.
_
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
This topic is so full of fail >.<
|
Ardan
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 11:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ardan on 03/11/2007 11:50:26
Well all I know on this subject is, I can fly all tech 1 Matari ships under capital, in a few days all t2 Matari frigs. I can fly all T1 amarr ships up to and includeing the Armagedon. The only one I actualy like is the punisher, the only thing I like it for is belt hunting. Usualy I fit it with ACs.
The only Matari ships I like that I have flown are the Breacher, Slasher, Rifter, Claw, Stilleto, Wolf, Jag, Thrasher, Bellicose, Stabber, Rupie, Cyclone, Hurricane, Typhoon, Tempest and Maelstrom. I think. May have missed a couple though.
"Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." Colligula |
|
Lord LeBlanc
Amarr
The Society of Amarrian Industrialists
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:29:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Statistics are meaningless unless you place them in context, your alliance is well know to be an Amarrian loyalist group, you need to look at what ships your enemies field as well, if Amarrian ships were demonstratively superior would not their use have become popular with the independent, non-empire affiliated capsuleers. Looking at DED supplied figures for both alliance and my alliances enemies provides the following information. We are not discriminatory about our members background and I assume my enemies do not discriminate either.
They would be popular among independent capsuleers if those some capsuleers were not blinded by ignorance and deviant lifestyles and focused on the best bargain over quality.
I am pleased to annouce the beginning of "When Only the Best Will Do" a new campaign highlighting the superior virtues of the Amarrian build warships.
I will also add that several of our members build non-Amarr hulls. Using superior Amarrian technologies they are thus able to infuse these inherently inferior designs with some of the benefits of our golden ships thus making them better then they were before. There are situations where an Amarrian designed ship may be inferior if it is built by a non-Amarrian not focused on quality and morality and instead focused solely on profit.
As for the CVA and their use of ships they have no requirements on ship usage yet they have chosen for the most part the superior Amarrian designed vessels. Given their success against enemies in recent conflicts I find their choice to clearly have been a wise one.
People will fly what they wish our only purpose at S.A.I.N.T.S. is to identify the differences in quality and design and bring people the knowledge needed to make an informed buying decision. They can take that knowledge and still foolishly purchase something inferior or not it is their choice.
Lord LeBlanc
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Statistics are meaningless unless you place them in context, your alliance is well know to be an Amarrian loyalist group, you need to look at what ships your enemies field as well
You're quite correct...and what more context do you need? Who better to demonstrate the superiority of Amarrian ships, particularly over minmatar hulls, than an Amarr loyalist organization who flies Amarrian designs and daily demonstrates their superiority?
|
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |