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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:19:00 -
[1]
Heres the situation,
Player A goes to a popular site and buys 10x GTC's to sell. He then goes on the EvE-O forums and finds a buyer. He agrees to sell all 10 for 3.5 billion. He uses the secure payment method. Two weeks later he has the 3.5 billion removed from the account. A GM said the ISK used to buy his timecards was bought.
Theres no way this is right! Can anyone give any feedback!?? GMs/Devs feel free to comment!
<3 Treb
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Jonathan Xavier
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:26:00 -
[2]
This will not end well.
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Tonkin
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:28:00 -
[3]
there should be a call center to these idiots
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Empire marketslave
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:30:00 -
[4]
if you used the approved secure method there would have been proof
i assume you didn't
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:35:00 -
[5]
I dont have a problem with taking money from ISK sellers.(not me I swear :p ) I do have a problem when GM's start taking from people who do things by the books.
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Taison
AB INITO
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Heres the situation,
Player A goes to a popular site and buys 10x GTC's to sell. He then goes on the EvE-O forums and finds a buyer. He agrees to sell all 10 for 3.5 billion. He uses the secure payment method. Two weeks later he has the 3.5 billion removed from the account. A GM said the ISK used to buy his timecards was bought.
Theres no way this is right! Can anyone give any feedback!?? GMs/Devs feel free to comment!
<3 Treb
So u say u used the secure method? Did all the timecodes go to 1 char? So u wanna say someone bought 10x 90 days GTC from you? That would mean that he extended his playing time for 3 years. )))) Sorry i dont believe you.
I assume u just sent him the 10 GTCs vial eve-mail and he transferred the isk to you. But this is not the secure method and is actually forbidden for a while now. So i see no problem with the GMs taking that isk away since you broke the rules.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:39:00 -
[7]
Petition, escalate until solved. Some smaller GM bleeped up big time. Sales of GTCs via secure method should be 100% proof for the GTC seller. The only one affected should be the GTC buyer, who should have a -3.5 bil ISK wallet. _
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Taison Edited by: Taison on 02/11/2007 06:36:48
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Heres the situation,
Player A goes to a popular site and buys 10x GTC's to sell. He then goes on the EvE-O forums and finds a buyer. He agrees to sell all 10 for 3.5 billion. He uses the secure payment method. Two weeks later he has the 3.5 billion removed from the account. A GM said the ISK used to buy his timecards was bought.
Theres no way this is right! Can anyone give any feedback!?? GMs/Devs feel free to comment!
<3 Treb
So u say u used the secure method? Did all the timecodes go to 1 char? So u wanna say someone bought 10x 90 days GTC from you? That would mean that he extended his playing time for 3 years. )))) Sorry i dont believe you.
I assume u just sent him the 10 GTCs vial eve-mail and he transferred the isk to you. But this is not the secure method and is actually forbidden for a while now. So i see no problem with the GMs taking that isk away since you broke the rules.
EDIT: yeah sorry i know. not You but your friend. But doesnt change the situation. I still cant believe someone prolongs his gametime for 900 days.
Regardless about extanding for 900 days, he did buy them all. My freidn just logged off so I cant ask any more details but assuming he bought them all, is he responsible for interrogating the guy on why he needs 900 days of GTC. ASAIK theres no limit on how many you can sell to a guy.
<3 Treb
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T Petition, escalate until solved. Some smaller GM bleeped up big time. Sales of GTCs via secure method should be 100% proof for the GTC seller. The only one affected should be the GTC buyer, who should have a -3.5 bil ISK wallet.
I disagree, not only should the ISK be removed, the time codes that were bought with the ISK should be removed. In which case, the person who sold the codes, i.e. the OP (or his friend) should get replacement codes.
So then the OP would be out 3.5B ISK but he would have the GTCs to sell again.
But yeah, petition it and kick and scream until they fix it.
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Niffetin
Gallente CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:51:00 -
[10]
CCP is known to have quite a few idiot GMs/Mods amongst their lines.
WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor |
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Maglorre
I disagree, not only should the ISK be removed, the time codes that were bought with the ISK should be removed. In which case, the person who sold the codes, i.e. the OP (or his friend) should get replacement codes.
So then the OP would be out 3.5B ISK but he would have the GTCs to sell again.
But yeah, petition it and kick and scream until they fix it.
Exactly what I thought. From the GM responses I've read between him and GM's, it sounds like they think 'they did the right thing'. I know the EvE-O forums isnt the best place to verify your sanity but I felt like I was going crazy for a second when I read that the GM's felt justified.......
So I'm semi-sane right??
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Vidork Drako
Amarr Ramraiders
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:56:00 -
[12]
The GM is a ******, not just that but he's talking out of his arse |
Darken Two
Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.11.02 06:59:00 -
[13]
Once the sane people at CCP hear about this, you should be fine. It was prolly one of the junior GM's.
Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Exactly what I thought. From the GM responses I've read between him and GM's, it sounds like they think 'they did the right thing'. I know the EvE-O forums isnt the best place to verify your sanity but I felt like I was going crazy for a second when I read that the GM's felt justified.......
So I'm semi-sane right??
Well, can't comment on your sanity, many insane people make perfect sense a lot of the time.
IMO, and assuming he has done everything by the books as you say, he should either get replacement codes or replacement (RL) money. The codes would be a lot easier.
I would also want confirmation from the GMs that the ****** that used bought ISK to buy his codes had the time added by those codes removed (or at least have another 3.5B removed from his wallet as well )
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:03:00 -
[15]
Just escalate it.
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Sathenu
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:08:00 -
[16]
People on these forums are real idiots!!
Trebor, I feel your pain, though I am not a GC seller. Regards who bought your GTC's if it was done with bought isk, CCPhad the right to remove the isk from your wallet but CP shouls also refund the GTC's since you used the secure method.
Note: even if the person bought 10xgtc's, who said he was going to use them on his account,or use them at all. 3.5 bill means he can make a profit selling each for more one at a time, rather than 1 big block!
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:12:00 -
[17]
Yea, I'm going to follow-up and make sure everything gets handled with him, assuming hes 100% telling the truth. Hes a good friend and a great player and I just got kinda ****ed because I found out the reason I haven't seen him for two weeks is because he can't leave the NPC station because hes -3.5bil in the hole and he can't upgrade his clone.
But yea, assuming he isnt lying to me I'm feeling a little more confident things will work out next week cause I'm sure the CCP team is drunk in a ditch in Iceland from FanFest. Lazy faks....back to work...
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:46:00 -
[18]
If it really was secure trade then as pointed out several times above be escalation is the answer.
If it's not then ... well ... nobody to blame in that case. Note that even if non secure trade is not supported scammers will still get permanent vacation from EVE when you petition them and GM's are thru with the logs. 'Not supported' in this case means that if seller gets scammed he will not get his isk back. Nowdays it might even be possible to get short vacation from EVE for trading timecodes non secure method I think (assuming it's one of the first violations against rules).
On the other hand there might be reason buried there somewhere why he's -3.5 bil short for past few weeks and GM's tell him that they did the right thing. It's not like they do stuff out of spite - their actions have reasons also somewhere in logfiles.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.02 07:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Heres the situation,
Player A goes to a popular site and buys 10x GTC's to sell. He then goes on the EvE-O forums and finds a buyer. He agrees to sell all 10 for 3.5 billion. He uses the secure payment method. Two weeks later he has the 3.5 billion removed from the account. A GM said the ISK used to buy his timecards was bought.
Theres no way this is right! Can anyone give any feedback!?? GMs/Devs feel free to comment!
<3 Treb
Standard procedure, the same used in RL with illegal money:
first the isk is seized, then you can present a memory for defence. If you did all right the isk will be returned.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Lazuran on 02/11/2007 08:14:40 No surprises there. CCP have been known to take ISK away * from people who sent ISK to their alts (paid with the same CCs) * from people who have only been accused of buying ISK by several members of a hostile alliance (without any proof)
If your description of the situation is correct and the banned guy can still be bothered to play this game, he should just escalate and hope to reach a sane person to deal with it.
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:21:00 -
[21]
What I find mystifying is that your friend is now 3.5 billion in the negative...
... So you're saying that the 3.5 bil was never posted in the first place, since removal of it would leave him where he was before selling the GTCs originally?
I agree, though, that if the secure transfer method was used (impossible, IMO, since the secure method credits the time paid for to the account, it does NOT send the buyer the time code from all that I've ever been told) then the GM should post 10 new time codes to the original seller.
I'm smelling scam, really, somewhere. Big stinky.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Akita T Petition, escalate until solved. Some smaller GM bleeped up big time. Sales of GTCs via secure method should be 100% proof for the GTC seller. The only one affected should be the GTC buyer, who should have a -3.5 bil ISK wallet.
I disagree, not only should the ISK be removed, the time codes that were bought with the ISK should be removed. In which case, the person who sold the codes, i.e. the OP (or his friend) should get replacement codes.
That would be an acceptable solution too, if at all possible. _
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Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:22:00 -
[23]
Petition. Also keep in mind that sometimes people tell these kind of things to their friends to explain their negative wallet balance because they are ashamed of admitting that they bought ISK from farmers. So they make up stories of how GMs screwed them out of legitimate ISK and insist that it is their faulr. If the trades were indeed secure it is quite a simple case as the GMs can then check the logs.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: I SoStoned What I find mystifying is that your friend is now 3.5 billion in the negative...
... So you're saying that the 3.5 bil was never posted in the first place, since removal of it would leave him where he was before selling the GTCs originally?
People who sell GTCs usually need the ISK to buy something. His friend probably spent the ISK, then 3.5b were removed from his wallet.
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:26:00 -
[25]
As indicated by a previous thread(the epic thread about a traded character), if you receive dirty ISK trough legitimate business and it gets removed, petition. the GM's will jump down the food chain and compensate you with ISK taken from the wallet of the one who sent you the dirty ISK.
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:41:00 -
[26]
OK, this is getting F'ing ridiculous! If CCP's GM's can't determine good from bad, what the hell? The GTC secure method was set up by CCP. Why would a legitimate seller lose the isk? Regardless of who bought it. Do they really thing that macro farmers spend actual money to wash isk?
Rather then hassling all the paying players, they should get off their a$$ abd implement a method to rid the game of OCR bots. Change belts from anchored to random spawn, move the exploration sites, etc.
I love this game, but damn, stories like this have me on the verge of going back to RTS games. At least that can use stuff like Punkbuster and keep their games clean. I have lost count of how many times I have reported macro players, only to watch them play 23/7 for months to come.
This is getting VERY old CCP.
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:43:00 -
[27]
If you look in the GTC forums, there are several chars who are buying GTCs for over 60 different Accts..... Something is not right here.
But damn. 10 GTCs ? :o
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Shoppaholic
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:47:00 -
[28]
I didnt think the GTC stacked, you buy one, it gets added from the day its used.....so buying 10 of them would be the same as using one...? |
Ibuy Andsell
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Posted - 2007.11.02 08:49:00 -
[29]
I've noticed this myself. One person will buy 3 time codes for 3 accounts. Not in itself a big deal, but when the names are all random gobblede**** it and are barely out of trial period it just smacks of pharmers.
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Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:02:00 -
[30]
that BK520 dude that makes a lot of posts is in some huuuge workshop, there must have been already nearly a hundred different character names that he requested codes for over the past few weeks
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Shoppaholic I didnt think the GTC stacked, you buy one, it gets added from the day its used.....so buying 10 of them would be the same as using one...?
Buying a GTC adds the gametime, it does not replace the "expiry date". You can pay for years in advance using multiple GTCs if you want to. If this DOESN'T happend, petition it as a bug. _
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.02 09:13:00 -
[32]
the guy who bought the GTC in the end had probably ebay ISK, thats why the ISK got removed. but the OPs friend should get the GTC trade undone by ccp
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Cold Sleeper
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:23:00 -
[33]
I have sold GTC using the secure method, but I won't sell to the people in the "Other" trade channel who are trying to buy codes for 15-20 different toons. I think he could be macroing and could be a farmer so I don't do business with them.
Use your brain
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Swamp Ziro
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:33:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cold Sleeper I have sold GTC using the secure method, but I won't sell to the people in the "Other" trade channel who are trying to buy codes for 15-20 different toons. I think he could be macroing and could be a farmer so I don't do business with them.
Use your brain
while this is solid advice to avoid bad situations like these, it is by no means the OP's fault
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah From the GM responses I've read between him and GM's
Unfortunately, we've seen plenty of cases where people who are guilty of exactly what the GMs say they are have convinced their friends that they are innocent. Rarely do you ever see the pilot who lost his isk posting on the forums, it's always a concerned friend who in many past cases has turned out to have been misled.
There are appropriate channels to go through for these problems and the forum is not one of them. First you petition. If the GM response is not satisfactory, request escalation to a senior GM. If they refuse or the senior GM gives the same response, contact internal affairs and report GM misconduct. If internal affairs say nothing's wrong, petition again and ask for a copy of their operating procedures in the case you outlined in the first post.
If you find that it is in fact CCP's policy to remove isk from someone who sold legitimately over the secure GTC system and not reverse the gtc sale (which, incidentally, punnishes the gtc seller and not the person that bought the isk), THEN you should post about it on the forums and complain. Until you've gone through senior gms and internal affairs, you can't be sure that it's official policy and not a mistake.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:51:00 -
[36]
IF
the secure method was used, the seller need only petition it, and escalate if necessary, however I'm under the impression that the OP is not the seller and just another "friend" posting on the boards for someone playing with dirty isk,
so proof or stfu
I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear
What do zombies and forum posters have in common? They like to sit about and moan! |
Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:58:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Matalino on 02/11/2007 14:58:42 To the OP - just to be clear on this:
Did your friend buy and sell 10 x 30 day GTC's for 3.5 billion?
or
Did your friend buy and sell 10 x 90 day GTC's for 3.5 billion?
This would make all the difference in the world.
If it is the first, the I am with the GM's. Just how stupid do you think they are. If you friend arranged to sell those GTC's at more 75% higher than market value, their by netting 1.5 billion more than the market value. It is ultimately the same as buying a unit of ammo from a known ISK seller for 1.5 billion. Your friend tried to beat the system and got caught. The GM's could not reasonably expect the GTC's to sell at that price on the open market, so there is obviously illegal price fixing going on outside of the game. That price was almost certainly fixed because your friend paid the ISK seller to buy the GTC's at that price.
If it was the second, then he should escalate the appeal to a senior GM. Obviosly the trade was done near or below market value, so there should be no grounds for his ISK to be taken even if it came from a known ISK seller. There would be no legitmate reason to accuse your friend of buying ISK as the open market would have quickly purchased 90 day GTC's at that price.
************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO |
Lacranora
Gallente Pagan Rites Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.02 14:59:00 -
[38]
Let me play master of the obvious here for a momentà.
I am a former GM for a few other games, and every time this issue came up, it is just a matter of looking over logs. Where something came from, and where something went. It does not matter how many people that something might have gone through, as everything has its own code, for the most part with some work it is easy to track something.
Sure money can be given or collect to or from multiple people, but even then it is just a simple matter of math, and more tracking. Yup, could take a week or two to go through all of it, BUT WE ALWAYS FIGURED IT OUT.
So for all you leg humpers out there, that think they can be slick about something, your not doing anything new, your not coming up with a new idea, your just doing the same old same old. If things are done right, and this is legit, then in a little bit of time it will all be returned and things will be square, but if it is not, YOU HAVE BEEN BUSTED JACKASS, QUIT YOUR COMPLAINING.
If I sound harsh, it is because this is a old complain, people cheat, get busted, whine about it, and then get mad because they got busted. Trying to give a game a bad name because you suck at cheatingà.that is kinda sad.
Always looking for new players, as we are a new player Corporation. Check out the site and let us know. http://paganrites.x10hosting.com |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:00:00 -
[39]
well i hope this is not true cause i just sold 2 for 1 bill..
anyway just petittion they should be able to track down the isk..
->My Vids<- |
PostOp Voodoo
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Carniflex their actions have reasons also somewhere in logfiles.
Someone who's obviously never dealt with GMs.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:11:00 -
[41]
As I see it he used a legitimate and CCP appointed way to get himself Isk. There is NO REASON AT ALL to think anything fishy is going on using this allowed method. EVEN when someone buys a lot, it could be he has 10 accounts or that they're for his corp.
ONLY if he delivered to 10 different characters himself (I'm not up to speed with timecard sales, not sure if you can buy 10 timecodes from someone and then later on distribute them to different accounts) and all those 10 chars were names like "Egeevhe", "fhsidffh" and "tgortdf". And then even THEN it could be someone wanting to hide the fact that he buys GTC (for some reason) so he used an alt on each account.
Via the official method there is no reason and no method for the seller to verify the non-isk-seller status of the buyer. As such the GTC seller can't be blamed for where that Isk came from. They should give him back the Isk and a HUGE "I'm very sorry" from the GM department.
Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:15:00 -
[42]
of course thats assuming he DID use the secure method, and this isn't just a forum dramabomb launched to try and collect sympathy isk, like the last one
I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear
What do zombies and forum posters have in common? They like to sit about and moan! |
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GM Nova
Game Masters
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:20:00 -
[43]
Nonsense. Absolutely moronic nonsense.
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GM Guard
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:24:00 -
[44]
Greetings.
Before people get too carried away speculating on this incident, let me assure you that GMs DO NOT remove ISK from players that sell time codes through the secure ETC system. We have not had a chance to look into this supposed incident yet but if a mistake has been made somewhere I urge the original poster to file a petition so this can be looked into properly.
We want all ISK for ETC trade to go through the secure system. The secure system is the only allowed method of trading ETCs for ISK.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.11.02 15:26:00 -
[45]
Well, if he sold the GTCS via the secure system. He's good to go.
But if he sold them to the local ajsdoiasjdasdasjd with the throw away account, he should get screwed.
I'm dangerous! Watch out! |
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CCP kieron
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:59:00 -
[46]
The player this happened to needs to submit a petition to the GM team with a request for a review. The forums are not the proper venue for this matter.
kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait... |
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