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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:16:00 -
[91]
I think CCP got annoyed about all the crap before about devs in alliances being a problem and how it should not be allowed and decided to teach us all a lesson and have left the devs who do not play in charge
Ok onto a more serious note the nerfs in the pipeline and on sisi are a mixed bag
Myrm,Ishkur,Eos-- yep fully agree these ships were way out of whack with the ships in the same field and need to meet the nerf bat
Interdictors- Yeah the sabre needed slowing down but wtf nerfing the other 3 especially the Flycatcher ?
Carriers--- Has anyone advocating any of the nerfs for carriers be it combat or Logistics ever had the dubious pleasure of running POS and as for wanting them to need surport they all ready do a solo carrier is basicly a wreck waiting to happen fighters are nice but die easy and cost more than most ppl who want the carrier nerfs ships
Motherships---- somthing needed to be done about low sec gate gamnkers but that was it
The new T2 ships--- They appear very lacklustre and underwhelming to say the least not to mention a cynic may think that some nerfs to current ships are to make these look better
I was going to say more but i need to go pick g/f up from work
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:33:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Shidhe Edited by: Shidhe on 08/11/2007 19:21:20 Remember that CCP want the game to succeed (i.e. be interesting and make people want to play) just as much (or more than) we do. It would be good to remember that they have thought things through quite hard before doing something. It doesn't stop them making mistakes, and it doesn't stop them nerfing your particular speciality, but they have thought about the game.
I'm not really sure they have at least from where I am standing a lot of the nerfs appear to be way OTT and some seem to be for no apparent reason whatsoever or completely contrary to CCPs previously stated aims. I think they should expect the playerbase to react to that.
They also fail to engage in meaningful conversations even when they are raised so the playerbase don't really know where they stand and the only apparent means of registering their frustration and getting heard is a thousand whine threads.
I mean don't these forums have a poll feature ? why not just post up a sticky thread asking player views.
The bottom line is it's the players who have to accept a change and if CCP goes against the wishes of their customers it's their own lookout.
When I joined Eve I picked my race and made my specialisation choices. Now a couple of years down the line and with all the nerfs I am really wishing I had trained Caldari or Minmatar. I am really in two minds whether I renew my sub when the current time expires as I can't face having to divert all those SP in cross training when I could use them for something more useful and exciting.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.08 22:14:00 -
[93]
CCP are well aware that we are the very vocal minority (what 10%?) of their playerbase.
The fact that the player population continues to increase is more praise than we could ever give.
That said the way some people talk on these forums is enough to ruffle anyones feathers. When you read a post like that you just have to remember that angry little people sat behind their monitor, who wouldn't pipe up in real-life if you served them a plate full of steaming crap, really aren't worth getting worked up about.
CCP have been at this a long time and in my opinion they manage to sift through the crap to find the diamonds remarkably well. I don't agree with everything they do but this is still a damn fine game and you can't please all of the people all of the time.
I will say this community is indeed taking a turn for the worse, perhaps once this update is out and things calm down we might see a return to more a reasonable attitude. Theres a lot of change, and a lot of people don't know why some things are changing.
Change, the unknown, and confusion lead to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to the Darkside.
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Leroy Payne
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Posted - 2007.11.08 22:15:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Leroy Payne on 08/11/2007 22:15:42
Originally by: Turin Edited by: Turin on 08/11/2007 21:00:48
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Gorebane
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria
I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.
boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.
Over-analytical trolling won't you look any less of a moron.
no i disagree wholly with your point of view and think you look like a whiny child using an adult's words. Does that make me a troll? maybe from your very limited perspective. The same limited perspective that has you whining about all these changes in the first place. Also it makes you look like an extremely sweaty nerd, from my perspective of course.
No, he's right, you are a troll. His post was well thought out and coherent. Not once did he resort to childish name calling unlike yourself.
I think you'll find it is your perspective that is limited if you really look at yourself.
listen we aren't in a court of law here. I don't give a **** whether you find me credible or not. At least I have the depth of view to see the upcoming changes have a purpose and a reason, rather than just diggin my heels in the sand because I'm happy with my little corner of the game as it is right now.
Being polite, and writing in a certain way does not make you any less unreasonable. I'm not a troll because I don't mince my words like the pair of you two have been. MY opinion is just as valid as yours, and part of my opinion is based on the fact that a lot of people are being obsessively nerdy and can't see the wood for the trees on anything that directly effects them in this game. The guy we referred to all but admits at the end of his first post he is an obsessive nerd and feels 'very defensive' about a computer game. I repeat that back to him and suddenly I'm a troll.
Calling anyone who disagrees with your point of view a troll may satisfy your very limited world-view of self-righteousness, but doesn't mean your arguments are any better thought out than mine. His arguments aren't well thought out, they are just wordy and pompous. He still fails to consider any one else in the game but his onwn precious little sandcastle which he himself admits he doesn't want changed and gets very defensive about.
His own argument utterly floors itself and demonstrates quite how unreasonable he is being. He expects the game to be built around his wishes . I'm just pointing out to him the solid truth that most people dont give two ****s about his wishes. That isn't trolling even if you see it as such.
No. He really is right. Your a worthless suckarse troll. Yes, his arguments are better thought out than yours. No, your opinion really is less valid due to your trolling. Go play in a freeway pls.
LOL YOU JUST OWNED YOURSELF MR CONSTRUCTIVR
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Leroy Payne
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Posted - 2007.11.08 22:17:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Turin Edited by: Turin on 08/11/2007 21:00:48
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Gorebane
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Leroy Payne
Originally by: Cadela Fria
I for one, am not ashamed to admit that that in itself can make me feel cornered and VERY defensive.
boohoo for you. the sky is falling obviously. not anything everyone's heard a million times before at every patch day. I for one don't give a toss about your pretty sandcastle you've built. If it concerns you that much you need to be irrationally defensive then you need to take a deep breath and go outside and get a sense of perspective not related to a computer game, same goes for all like you.
Over-analytical trolling won't you look any less of a moron.
no i disagree wholly with your point of view and think you look like a whiny child using an adult's words. Does that make me a troll? maybe from your very limited perspective. The same limited perspective that has you whining about all these changes in the first place. Also it makes you look like an extremely sweaty nerd, from my perspective of course.
No, he's right, you are a troll. His post was well thought out and coherent. Not once did he resort to childish name calling unlike yourself.
I think you'll find it is your perspective that is limited if you really look at yourself.
listen we aren't in a court of law here. I don't give a **** whether you find me credible or not. At least I have the depth of view to see the upcoming changes have a purpose and a reason, rather than just diggin my heels in the sand because I'm happy with my little corner of the game as it is right now.
Being polite, and writing in a certain way does not make you any less unreasonable. I'm not a troll because I don't mince my words like the pair of you two have been. MY opinion is just as valid as yours, and part of my opinion is based on the fact that a lot of people are being obsessively nerdy and can't see the wood for the trees on anything that directly effects them in this game. The guy we referred to all but admits at the end of his first post he is an obsessive nerd and feels 'very defensive' about a computer game. I repeat that back to him and suddenly I'm a troll.
Calling anyone who disagrees with your point of view a troll may satisfy your very limited world-view of self-righteousness, but doesn't mean your arguments are any better thought out than mine. His arguments aren't well thought out, they are just wordy and pompous. He still fails to consider any one else in the game but his onwn precious little sandcastle which he himself admits he doesn't want changed and gets very defensive about.
His own argument utterly floors itself and demonstrates quite how unreasonable he is being. He expects the game to be built around his wishes . I'm just pointing out to him the solid truth that most people dont give two ****s about his wishes. That isn't trolling even if you see it as such.
No. He really is right. Your a worthless suckarse troll. Yes, his arguments are better thought out than yours. No, your opinion really is less valid due to your trolling. Go play in a freeway pls.
oh and enjoy your carrier before it gets nerfed. Devs agree with this troll, remember that. You can "constructively argue" all you like. To me i tlooks like the whinging of a 5 year old, and for pointing that out in abrasive style i get called names. Bottom line, I get what I want, you don't. No amount of circle jerking with your alliance mates changes that.
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Siresa Talesi
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Posted - 2007.11.08 22:45:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 08/11/2007 22:46:57
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Originally by: Tortun Nahme since when did "paying customer" mean lord and master
Since the dawn of capitalism. Haven't you ever heard the mantra "the customer is always right"?
Of course, individuals have to be taken on a case by case basis, and if a customer is too much of a hassle for you as a business owner, you have every right to exclude that person from your business. The trick is to not upset or anger enough customers as to negatively impact the success of your business. Start getting snippy with your customers in general, or ignoring them in large groups, and you will very soon be out of business. So yes, it's your business, you can do whatever you want with it, just be prepared for the consequences!
That might be true whereever you live, but it isn't necessarily the case here. Many times it's a matter of you adhering to their rules, and behaving yourself. If you don't behave and/or break the rules, you get the finger.
And that's fine for the one or two customers now and then who are jerks, but start giving the finger to a third of the people coming in your door and you'll feel the impact in your wallet pretty quick.
Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 08/11/2007 20:22:47
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Since the dawn of capitalism.
I think you misunderstand Capitalism. Capitalism means: their property = their rules.
Your money is not worth so much to them that they would let you **** all over their rules. It's not like you're the only paying customer out there.
Seriously, you pay pocket change. You should be grateful you get as much for it as you are getting.
And I think you need to read complete posts, maybe then you'll understand. Maybe I should clarify: A "paying customer" does not necessarily influence the actions of a company. However, "paying customers" in sufficient quantity, do hold such influence, or the business fails. That's the business side of capitalism, you either provide a service people want, at a price they will pay and in a manner they like, or they go somewhere else, it's called free market economy.
And I strongly resent your insinuations that I am doing or suggesting anything against any rules. I really have no idea where you got that idea or where you're coming from. Once again, you probably need to read a bit more before opening your mouth.
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sapanda1102222
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Posted - 2007.11.08 23:13:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
I will say this community is indeed taking a turn for the worse, perhaps once this update is out and things calm down we might see a return to more a reasonable attitude. Theres a lot of change, and a lot of people don't know why some things are changing.
Want to know why the community is taking a turn for the worse?
The whiners get their way and I'm not just talking about game changes. I mean when a whiner files a petition most of the time the GM autoresponds without checking the facts. Whether it is a ship loss or an interaction with another player. Keep petitioning and eventually you get your way and once you do the GMs rarely reverse their actions.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.08 23:20:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi And I think you need to read complete posts, maybe then you'll understand. Maybe I should clarify: A "paying customer" does not necessarily influence the actions of a company. However, "paying customers" in sufficient quantity, do hold such influence, or the business fails.
That's assuming a "sufficient quantity" of Eve players feel the same way about something to begin with. Come on, most Eve players don't even know what they truly want in a game, and if they were given that they think they want they would probably end up hating it.
Quote: That's the business side of capitalism, you either provide a service people want, at a price they will pay and in a manner they like, or they go somewhere else, it's called free market economy.
You provide a good product people will want it. But a good product is not necessarily what some customer or other (who may have zero clue on the subject) thinks will be a good product.
Quote: And I strongly resent your insinuations that I am doing or suggesting anything against any rules. I really have no idea where you got that idea or where you're coming from. Once again, you probably need to read a bit more before opening your mouth.
I think you should go back and read, and you'll see where it came from.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.09 00:17:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 09/11/2007 00:18:33
Originally by: Leroy Payne To me it looks like the whinging of a 5 year old, and for pointing that out in abrasive style i get called names.
I've never seen hypocrisy happen so fast in one sentence. That's amazing O.o
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.09 00:32:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Edited by: Gone''Postal on 08/11/2007 15:37:43 What do you expect from a game that brings out the darkest desires of human nature.. Hell I think a few players would *****the damsal(sp?) if the game had the option too.
I dunno about sexual assault, but I'd get a boneflute polishing for my trouble.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.09 00:41:00 -
[101]
Originally by: sapanda1102222
Want to know why the community is taking a turn for the worse?
Is it because people don't post with their main anymore?
Because I seriously doubt that petitions, that cannot even be mentioned on the forums, are having a huge effect on the forum community.
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Claude Rapolla
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Posted - 2007.11.09 00:53:00 -
[102]
I, personally, am terribly proud that CCP is willing to nerf things that need it even in the face of a stampede of whiners. It's called "tough love". |
Sarah McTeef
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Posted - 2007.11.09 00:53:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Is it because people don't post with their main anymore?
I don't get that whole thing, posting with the main. Why would I expose my main to meta-gamers on an out of game board for things written out of game. If it's supposed to be in game it should only be accessible from in the game, that would solve the 'mains problem'. Otherwise people are going to meta game me. |
sapanda1102222
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Posted - 2007.11.09 00:59:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: sapanda1102222
Want to know why the community is taking a turn for the worse?
Is it because people don't post with their main anymore?
Because I seriously doubt that petitions, that cannot even be mentioned on the forums, are having a huge effect on the forum community.
I can't post with my main because the petition is being ignored.
Your post is ironic at best.
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Dete Data
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Posted - 2007.11.09 01:18:00 -
[105]
What really gets me is this "you know what, we dont give a **** what you guys think, you gonna play it and like it" attitude lately....
I've played this game for a very long time (probably far to long) and I can't EVER remember the community in such a uproar over changes.. seriously can anyone else?
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sapanda1102222
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Posted - 2007.11.09 01:21:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dete Data What really gets me is this "you know what, we dont give a **** what you guys think, you gonna play it and like it" attitude lately....
I've played this game for a very long time (probably far to long) and I can't EVER remember the community in such a uproar over changes.. seriously can anyone else?
The game changes are nothing. That attitude is very disgusting in the way petitions are handled or in other words everything to do with eve OOG.
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Elridon
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.11.09 03:37:00 -
[107]
We will know the devs are ****ed off with us when they hand US the nerf bats, and go off to have a party.
Honestly though, I'm sorta ticked about how they are nerfing everything, but some of the stuff deserves it, ya know? Myrms shouldnt be able to go around with their uber tanks and 5 Ogre IIs... And with the whole EW thing, I would be happy if they left the mods at the strengths they are now, with some exceptions (RSDs... ) and forced us to use scripts with them. They would work best on their race's EW ship, but still work on other ships too, with a semi-decent strength. *Lurk mode active* |
Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.09 03:47:00 -
[108]
Hey, they have a serious responsibility on their shoulders. If you guys dont like the content and quit, half of you will think CCP destroyed your lives, you will quit, and half of you will go on a high school killing spree. They dont want that on their cons ions! The fate of the world and domestic terrorism depends on them! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:34:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Sarah McTeef
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Is it because people don't post with their main anymore?
I don't get that whole thing, posting with the main. Why would I expose my main to meta-gamers on an out of game board for things written out of game. If it's supposed to be in game it should only be accessible from in the game, that would solve the 'mains problem'. Otherwise people are going to meta game me.
I generally don't have a problem with it and realize many have valid reasons. However a lot of forum users find that being able to post anonymously is a little more than they can handle. It allows them to post insulting or poorly thought-out posts without worrying about the usual flak they would get from the more sensible forum users, and means that foolish, harmful, or downright dumb posts don't affect the reputation of their main.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:47:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 09/11/2007 12:47:11
Devs != Doormats.
--- The Disclosure Project | My UFO Thread (read it!) |
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Roc Wieler
Polytope
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Posted - 2007.11.09 12:55:00 -
[111]
I was going to comment, then realized why bother. Never seen so many individuals who are ALL right before. It's quite outstanding really. *** Lt.Colonel Roc Wieler
"Never start a fight you can win." - Roc Wieler |
thisiswrong
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Posted - 2007.11.09 13:21:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: MaxSkywalker CCP can suck my balls, for what its worth!
I'm pretty sure they feel the same way about you
Were you a DEV groupie at the fanfest like the rest of the Mercenary coalition?
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.11.09 15:44:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Turin Eh, that is inherintly a problem in MMO's though. There is ALWAYS a "best" setup. a "best" weapon a "best" armor. or whatever. ALWAYS. No MMO I have ever played has solved this issue. In competetive environments, people will always gravitate to what they perceive as "the best" no matter what you do.
This creates a cycle of nerfs wich IMO are pointless, because it will just create the same situation but with some other ship / mod / whatever.
While you are correct, you need to elaborate that that "best" at a specific thing. Variety is inherently encouraged because different things will be "best" for different purposes. And you should still aim for balance in two key areas:
1) Nothing should be the "best" at lots of things at the same time. If you have something like that, you shouldn't even be pretending to operate a multi-class system. Equally important is to ensure that you don't get a class that's "good enough" in too many areas at once, as the flexibility itself is an attractive option. While an opposing ship may be able to beat you in one area, it would fall down further in the other areas and lose overall. That's the danger of the jack-of-all-trades, it can be overpowered overall without being the best at anything.
2) Minimizing the difference between the "best" and the "next best" within a class of ideal equals. You'll never stop one thing being the "best", but by minimizing the difference, you minimise the impact, especially in a system where there are a myriad of other minor differences between the options that will lead to variety being used as long as the primary difference is not too large.
And of course, life is never perfect. That doesn't mean you should not strive to make it as good as you can, even if you know you will fall short of the ideal. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Optique
Sixth Degree Communications
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Posted - 2007.11.09 15:52:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Optique on 09/11/2007 15:52:26 I'd be frustrated too if it was my job to wade through the unending torrent of completely unconstructive criticism to try and find VALID concerns that weren't written by 15-year old WoW noobs.
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Liam Liam
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Posted - 2007.11.09 17:23:00 -
[115]
I must admit I've been amazed at the amount of nerfs they're coming fast and furious you train something then you find it nerfed to a shadow of it's former self IE; It no longer fulfills the function you trained it for.
One example: I noticed Nossing was a much used strategy so I trained up passive shield as a counter ( Nos me all you want now I thought I won't die through lack of cap ) only to find passive shields nerfed. It was no great comfort to find nos nerfed soon after, not only was my passive shields of limited use but the whole reason I had trained them was pretty much removed.
If this is a long term plan to "balance" the game and a one off series of nerfs fine. It should have been explained as such and there would be fewer moans on the forum.
If it's a new trend to constantly nerf, change and tweak things then people will definitely moan and expect lots more. |
Tao Han
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:00:00 -
[116]
I personally blame the ****posting alliance, CAOD has more or less infected the rest of these forums ------ *snip* Your signature image is password-protected. -Rauth Kivaro([email protected]) I know, CEO was being a tard. -Tao |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: thisiswrong
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: MaxSkywalker CCP can suck my balls, for what its worth!
I'm pretty sure they feel the same way about you
Were you a DEV groupie at the fanfest like the rest of the Mercenary coalition?
I wasn't even at the fanfest mr. Alt loser who seems to be MaxSkyWalker's guardian.
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Mag's
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:24:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Leroy Payne oh and enjoy your carrier before it gets nerfed. Devs agree with this troll, remember that. You can "constructively argue" all you like. To me i tlooks like the whinging of a 5 year old, and for pointing that out in abrasive style i get called names. Bottom line, I get what I want, you don't. No amount of circle jerking with your alliance mates changes that.
Wow, you really should get out more. You talk as though you're on the moral high ground, but infact you are far from it. You and your kind are the reason this forum get such a bad name.
There have been many constructive posts, from MC, Goons and BoB, all against the carrier and MS change, so they have stopped it for now, so you don't get what you want. It's a shame that, you're seemingly too bitter and twisted to understand that.
Take a break from EvE young man.
Mag's
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:29:00 -
[119]
Well i usually just comment on other peoples whines, most times i tell them to get a life and stop whining allready, sometimes i think it was a waranted one and contribute a post as well, i hardly ever start a thread myself, mainly cuz i don't really feel the need to whine about something i dislike and also cuz the interesting non whine threads get snowed under rapidly anyways so not even bothering anymore with constructive or informative ones.
I know eve is a tough world, but i do think the increase in players has dilluted the community feel a bit we had when it was just 7k players online and 10k online at once was the next record and this has given both the game and the forums a less friendly feel.
I know it would be bad for the game if we ever went back to those figures but sometimes i do long for those times, where eve really felt like a big universe sometimes, flying through system after system (in hi and low sec) without so much as running in to anyone else. U could make camp in a system and see nobody else in local for days. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Ztrain
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.09 19:05:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Benilopax Ive been looking at a lot of the "OMG WTF CCP NERFARAMA" threads today and noticed that the devs are leaving sarcastic,****ed off comments. To be honest I don't blame them, there seems to be a bad case of affairs on the forums these days, I don't know if it's new players or a general dissatisfaction. I myself have been and am annoyed with CCP due to certain things some of which will become apparent in due course. However I must say I have seen too many "eleventyones" recently.
I am always trying to pour oil on the water on these forums, but let me just say next time you hover over new topic or reply, take a deep breath and think will what I am about to type get an answer or help this situation? I leave you with this, look on the brightside, at least its been another fanfest without Hellmar announcing they sold up to SOE!
Well they can't fix their problems and can not come up with good solutions technically or mechanically. I'm sure it has to be frustrating when your inept at what you claim as your living. So when people are going that sucks every time they think of something yeah I can see how they'd get a little miffed. Problem is it's because they can't come up with solutions to incompetance.
Rather then fix technical problems they are still looking at trying to fix the game through nurfs and subscriber population control. They've destroyed the whole "EVE is a sandbox" sales pitch, destroyed their games end game, and probably have no idea how they've done it let alone how to fix it.
TBH this game has now been around a while. The more CCP ****es people off the easier it will be for a competitor to suck up the player base. Don't look at this as a burden but an opertunity.
Z
Originally by: CCP Zulupark That's the rough idea, yes. We still have in no way started thinking about what modules to introduce, what they would do or anything of the likes, but the idea is that.
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