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Astro Jones
AJ Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Clone activated From: Astro Jones Sent: 2012.01.26 00:43
So you died? Well you have a Clone Grade Alpha at Mirilene IV - Moon 1 - Federation Navy Logistic Support station. Enjoy your afterlife. Note that 1024000 skill points were lost from the skill Astrometric Rangefinding.
You were last cloned at 2012.01.26 00:22
and
Clone activated From: Astro Jones Sent: 2012.01.26 00:22
So you died? Well you have a Clone Grade Alpha at Mirilene IV - Moon 1 - Federation Navy Logistic Support station. Enjoy your afterlife. Note that 1024000 skill points were lost from the skill Gallente Battleship.
You were last cloned at 2012.01.07 15:27 |
malaire
191
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
28 million SP is hardly a "new player". New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:New Player Pays the Price eh?
OP created the character on: 2009.03.28
I call troll.
Or he bough/ aquired the toon. Hardly an uncommon practice.
The clone thing is probably just meant to be part of the Sci-Fi space game imersion thing. Trying to make it seem so real to you that you yell out "I was there!".
Currenty, there is some discussion going on as to removing some of the clone requirements or at least a price restructuring. You're not alone in thinking the system is stupid.
CCP made up for this by offering $70 monocles for you to buy. You're welcome. |
ugh zug
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
the clone system acts as a minor ISK sink so, its not going away anytime soon. Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
320
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
Sishen Gzi wrote:I'm tempted to dis-believe the op, several weeks ago I got podded and forgot to update the clone before getting podded again and all I lost was 11 days off of battlecruiser V so not even the whole skill.
QFT.
The SP loss mechanic is as follows:
If you have more SP than your clone has, you lose the LESSER of: 1) The difference between the amount of SP you have and what your clone is rated for 2) Up to half of one level of the skill which has the most sp trained in it.
IIRC, not even Battleships V will cause you to lose 20 days of training in a single podding. It would have to be cap/super cap skills. |
Astro Jones
AJ Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:48:00 -
[66] - Quote
Pavel Bidermann wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:New Player Pays the Price eh?
OP created the character on: 2009.03.28
I call troll.
Or he bough/ aquired the toon. Hardly an uncommon practice. The clone thing is probably just meant to be part of the Sci-Fi space game imersion thing. Trying to make it seem so real to you that you yell out "I was there!". Currenty, there is some discussion going on as to removing some of the clone requirements or at least a price restructuring. You're not alone in thinking the system is stupid. CCP made up for this by offering $70 monocles for you to buy. You're welcome.
i've turned my account on and off a couple time's....not that i was upset with the game just had other things i had to do... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:48:00 -
[67] - Quote
I'm just baffled by his not knowing this rather fundamental mechanic.
Granted, four years down the line, I can't recall where and when I learned about it, but I'm fairly certain that it was long before I even had to worry about it (and Tippia was made back in the day when you started at 800k SP, so the 900k free clone limit wasn't all that far away).
They've improved the new player education quite a bit since, and even back then, it wasn't something that was exactly hard to learn. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
Why would you be baffled that somebody doesn't know about all the undocumented mechanics in EVE? The new player experience, while improved, is still the same crappy system it always was. Partly because its designed by a company that doesn't play it's own game. How would they know what a new player needs?
Also, there are lots of ways to have a toon that's old but the pilot still doesn't know about key functions. I played for over 2 years without knowing how to interact with the corp hanger in an Orca. For 2 years i never needed to worry about it. And then one day I did. Complex games have a lot to know. With no actual documenttion and a training system that could only be called "poor" on its best day, it isn't a mystery that people don't know the mechanics of some of the game functions. Information in EVE is tribal knowledge. If you don't look at the right cave paintings at the right time, you will miss key information.
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
1044
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Considering 'paying the price': As a new player, clones cost next to nothing and I would regularily let myself get podded to travel home the fast way - it was free and saved me a lot of jumps - now I still do it on occasion, but each time I do, it costs me 30 mill isk... morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 17:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
Pavel Bidermann wrote:Why would you be baffled that somebody doesn't know about all the undocumented mechanics in EVE? Because this particular mechanic is not just incredibly well documented, but even comes with its own tutorial and falls squarely in the GÇ£even the newbies know thisGÇ¥ category. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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Astro Jones
AJ Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Pavel Bidermann wrote:Why would you be baffled that somebody doesn't know about all the undocumented mechanics in EVE? Because this particular mechanic is not just incredibly well documented, but even comes with its own tutorial and falls squarely in the GÇ£even the newbies know thisGÇ¥ category.
it seems your wrong...lol |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
320
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
Astro Jones wrote:Tippia wrote:Pavel Bidermann wrote:Why would you be baffled that somebody doesn't know about all the undocumented mechanics in EVE? Because this particular mechanic is not just incredibly well documented, but even comes with its own tutorial and falls squarely in the GÇ£even the newbies know thisGÇ¥ category. it seems your wrong...lol
Unlike Tippia - I DO remember when I learned about this mechanic. I learned in my FIRST day of EVE during the Aura tutorials. And this was 6 years ago when there wasn't really any sort of NPE. |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
1311
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Astro Jones wrote:Tippia wrote:Pavel Bidermann wrote:Why would you be baffled that somebody doesn't know about all the undocumented mechanics in EVE? Because this particular mechanic is not just incredibly well documented, but even comes with its own tutorial and falls squarely in the GÇ£even the newbies know thisGÇ¥ category. it seems your wrong...lol
*you're
And no, she's not.
All necessary information is provided by CCP, even in a manner so that it's not that hard to find.
Those who don't spend their first weeks reading up tons about how the game works, (most people i've met have done so) have to blame themselves. Sadly, decadence and stupidity has taken over. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Ai Shun
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Astro Jones wrote:Clone activated From: Astro Jones Sent: 2012.01.26 00:43
So you died? Well you have a Clone Grade Alpha at Mirilene IV - Moon 1 - Federation Navy Logistic Support station. Enjoy your afterlife. Note that 1024000 skill points were lost from the skill Astrometric Rangefinding.
You were last cloned at 2012.01.26 00:22
and
Clone activated From: Astro Jones Sent: 2012.01.26 00:22
So you died? Well you have a Clone Grade Alpha at Mirilene IV - Moon 1 - Federation Navy Logistic Support station. Enjoy your afterlife. Note that 1024000 skill points were lost from the skill Gallente Battleship.
You were last cloned at 2012.01.07 15:27
Wait a second. Did you train 40,000,000 SP in 19 days?!? If not, then what happened to you on the 7th in terms of skillpoint loss and why did you not update your clone then? |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Astro Jones wrote:Tippia wrote:Pavel Bidermann wrote:Why would you be baffled that somebody doesn't know about all the undocumented mechanics in EVE? Because this particular mechanic is not just incredibly well documented, but even comes with its own tutorial and falls squarely in the GÇ£even the newbies know thisGÇ¥ category. it seems your wrong...lol *you're And no, she's not. All necessary information is provided by CCP, even in a manner so that it's not that hard to find. Those who don't spend their first weeks reading up tons about how the game works, (most people i've met have done so) have to blame themselves. Sadly, decadence and stupidity has taken over.
Just because something is sitting out there doesn't mean it been located or even understood. You assume too much. Also, most people have read up on the mechanics of EVE? First off who would that be since the channels in newb corps are full of nothing but basic questions like "how do I open a cargo container?"? Where is this vast datbase of written EVE lore you speak of? I call Shenanigans! there is no "even newbies know this" catagory in EVE. CCP clearly doesn't even know how EVE works so why should a new player know what they don't? Granted, a new player is at least trying to play EVE, so that's an advantage a dev doesn't have. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
236
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:32:00 -
[76] - Quote
I think what CCP could do is make it clearer when you're flying with a clone that isn't up to date.
I mean it's great that we all use EVEMon, but the fact this warning is exclusive to third party tools seems a little silly. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4623
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 18:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
Maybe SAK was just a superior newbcorp. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death.
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
I lost a few mil SP from just forgetting to upgrade my clone after losing a pod. Just in a hurry to rejoin the fight and rushed back out the door. My mistake completely.
But on a higher level, I agree that it's a needless mechanic. Eve's complexity can be good, or it can be there just for the sake of making something complicated. The whole clone/jump clone thing adds a needless layer to an already byzantine system.
Eve's community is bi-polar. People bemoan the lack of PvP going on but demand unneeded complexity and risk to even step a toe into it. Upgrading your clone is a small thing, insignificant in fact in overall game play terms- so why have it at all? We have implants and jump clones- the levels of clone for SP is a pointless addition.
I think SP's should be retained (do away with levels of clone entirely). I am all for losing MATERIAL things in battle. Implants, ships, modules, whatever. But I think losing TIME is a big mistake. It's the one thing you can't grind back after a mistake. Eve is still just a game, and losing months of real time played is a price too steep to be reasonable for a GAME.
I really like Eve, stuck with it thru that harsh learning curve without rage-quitting. But TBH, if I just forgot to upgrade a clone and set myself back months again- I wouldn't keep playing. Gankers, losing all my implants, loser FC's and corp drama- the game is still worth it. But basically losing the months of real time I've put into Eve-- is the only thing that would actually make me just pack it in. No game is worth that to me, not just Eve. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:10:00 -
[79] - Quote
[quote=Pavel Bidermann] Just because something is sitting out there doesn't mean it been located or even understood. You assume too much. Also, most people have read up on the mechanics of EVE? First off who would that be since the channels in newb corps are full of nothing but basic questions like "how do I open a cargo container?"? Where is this vast datbase of written EVE lore you speak of? [quote] You have obviously never heard of Evelopedia which can be accessed by pressing the big button marked 'Evelopedia' at the top of this very page.
Try typing 'clones' in the searchbox and see what the results are. |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
77
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
LOL you lost TWO clones? You would have thought you had learnt the first time, you are a n00b alright but its not in terms of age or skillpoints, more of intelligence |
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Roll Sizzle Beef
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:I really like Eve, stuck with it thru that harsh learning curve without rage-quitting. But TBH, if I just forgot to upgrade a clone and set myself back months again- I wouldn't keep playing. Gankers, losing all my implants, loser FC's and corp drama- the game is still worth it. But basically losing the months of real time I've put into Eve-- is the only thing that would actually make me just pack it in. No game is worth that to me, not just Eve.
There should be punishment for laziness and forgetfulness. That stuff should always kill you. Yet after years of play, that punishment becomes pretty damn severe. And the reward for sticking with the game for so many years only nets you higher and higher clone costs. Makes sense in a real world scenario but in a game aspect is just demoralizing. |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Pavel Bidermann wrote: Just because something is sitting out there doesn't mean it been located or even understood. You assume too much. Also, most people have read up on the mechanics of EVE? First off who would that be since the channels in newb corps are full of nothing but basic questions like "how do I open a cargo container?"? Where is this vast datbase of written EVE lore you speak of?
You have obviously never heard of Evelopedia which can be accessed by pressing the big button marked 'Evelopedia' at the top of this very page. Try typing 'clones' in the searchbox and see what the results are.
Oh yes I have heard of that and actually tried to look around in that mess. Its so poorly done that it looks like something I would have put together. that "system" sucks bad enough that even CCP is trying to fix it (with hillarious results I'm sure!). |
Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death.
62
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 19:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Laziness can cost you- but simply tossing in the loss of real time (and possibly months at that) has nothing to do with gameplay. You can be lazy watching local, D-Scan, fitting for PvP when in low/null, autopiloting, spamming approach/orbit, etc---and all those will cost you material losses.
But there is no higher game mechanic than clicking on an NPC menu box with clones. There is no actual benefit, only the most severe of punishments for failing to remember this one, not often used thing. No other player benefits from the loss either. I agreed with putting implants on KM's- again it's a material loss. Loss of SP is pointless at best.
I am just fundamentally opposed to losing SP. To me that represents real time of my life I've invested into what will always be just a game. Much of that time was spent grinding boring content so I could get to the 'meat and potatoes' of Eve. Being set back to that point again? I just wouldn't do it. I already wrap up what is nearly a part time job worth of my life into this one game-- to have that all essentially wasted because I forget to click on a box before getting back out to fight??? That is beyond ridiculous.
It's just a totally extraneous game feature. |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:Laziness can cost you- but simply tossing in the loss of real time (and possibly months at that) has nothing to do with gameplay. You can be lazy watching local, D-Scan, fitting for PvP when in low/null, autopiloting, spamming approach/orbit, etc---and all those will cost you material losses.
But there is no higher game mechanic than clicking on an NPC menu box with clones. There is no actual benefit, only the most severe of punishments for failing to remember this one, not often used thing. No other player benefits from the loss either. I agreed with putting implants on KM's- again it's a material loss. Loss of SP is pointless at best.
I am just fundamentally opposed to losing SP. To me that represents real time of my life I've invested into what will always be just a game. Much of that time was spent grinding boring content so I could get to the 'meat and potatoes' of Eve. Being set back to that point again? I just wouldn't do it. I already wrap up what is nearly a part time job worth of my life into this one game-- to have that all essentially wasted because I forget to click on a box before getting back out to fight??? That is beyond ridiculous.
It's just a totally extraneous game feature.
Well said. there doesn't seem to be a really good reason for this even being there other than being a useless and antagonistic mechanic. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2701
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:16:00 -
[85] - Quote
If, by the time you've accumulated 28MP SP, you haven't learned a very fundamental, widely known mechanic, and then you proceeded to make the same mistake again right after being notified via EVEmail, why have you come to these forums for anything but to be laughed at? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2701
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:22:00 -
[86] - Quote
If, by the time you've accumulated 28MP SP, you haven't learned a very fundamental, widely known mechanic, and then you proceeded to make the same mistake again right after being notified via EVEmail, why have you come to these forums for anything but to be laughed at? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
77
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
Pavel Bidermann wrote:Alaric Faelen wrote:Laziness can cost you- but simply tossing in the loss of real time (and possibly months at that) has nothing to do with gameplay. You can be lazy watching local, D-Scan, fitting for PvP when in low/null, autopiloting, spamming approach/orbit, etc---and all those will cost you material losses.
But there is no higher game mechanic than clicking on an NPC menu box with clones. There is no actual benefit, only the most severe of punishments for failing to remember this one, not often used thing. No other player benefits from the loss either. I agreed with putting implants on KM's- again it's a material loss. Loss of SP is pointless at best.
I am just fundamentally opposed to losing SP. To me that represents real time of my life I've invested into what will always be just a game. Much of that time was spent grinding boring content so I could get to the 'meat and potatoes' of Eve. Being set back to that point again? I just wouldn't do it. I already wrap up what is nearly a part time job worth of my life into this one game-- to have that all essentially wasted because I forget to click on a box before getting back out to fight??? That is beyond ridiculous.
It's just a totally extraneous game feature. Well said. there doesn't seem to be a really good reason for this even being there other than being a useless and antagonistic mechanic.
Because the skills are the greatest sink in the game, check the most recent QEN even though the last one was Q4 of 2010 i doubt it would have changed, because keeping the idea of losing SP means CCP can keep you subscribed longer, you lose 1million SP from one pod kill means CCP will probably be able to keep you subscribed another 20 days more while you train it back along with the rest of the skills. LRN2EVE and update your clone, its been there since forever |
baltec1
506
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:29:00 -
[88] - Quote
Astro Jones wrote:thanks, i know it's my mistake but the question still stands...why do you lose skill? i mean what's the point?
To teach you a lesson and punish you for your foolishness. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:Laziness can cost you- but simply tossing in the loss of real time (and possibly months at that) has nothing to do with gameplay. You can be lazy watching local, D-Scan, fitting for PvP when in low/null, autopiloting, spamming approach/orbit, etc---and all those will cost you material losses.
But there is no higher game mechanic than clicking on an NPC menu box with clones. There is no actual benefit, only the most severe of punishments for failing to remember this one, not often used thing. No other player benefits from the loss either. I agreed with putting implants on KM's- again it's a material loss. Loss of SP is pointless at best.
I am just fundamentally opposed to losing SP. To me that represents real time of my life I've invested into what will always be just a game. Much of that time was spent grinding boring content so I could get to the 'meat and potatoes' of Eve. Being set back to that point again? I just wouldn't do it. I already wrap up what is nearly a part time job worth of my life into this one game-- to have that all essentially wasted because I forget to click on a box before getting back out to fight??? That is beyond ridiculous.
It's just a totally extraneous game feature.
Ever lost a strategic cruiser? |
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 20:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yes I have. Sucks. However, what is accomplished from the drop in skills? Not very much. I guess they just had to make it feel different. |
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