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Glengrant
Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.11 13:15:00 -
[1]
For now it looks like CCP would have had less trouble and cost and customer better quality if CCP would have simply created installation packages for Eve + Wine.
YMMV of course - but there are several issues that I have with the official client that don't happen with wine.
Cedega based client has only 2 advantages ATM: 1. More speed - and it sounds like wine 9.49 just caught up with that. Anyway - reports about which version is faster seem inconsistent anyway and probably depend on a number of factors (graphic card, driver version, settings, ...) 2. I expect less hassle on patch days where the official client (hopefully) will have been tested in time before release while wine sometimes has to catch up (rarely takes more than a few days though - thanks for the hackers who get this done every time).
But it's early days - let's hope the bug reports they get now from a larger community will help fix those issues (clipboard, keyboard, codepage, blueboxes, etc...) soon.
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Snowcrash Winterheart2
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Posted - 2007.11.11 15:06:00 -
[2]
I'm going to ignore the OS X equation here.
In the early days WineX took off like a gazel on speed; it had the best D3D/OGL translation routines and it's "wine bottle" system of keeping all the games separate worked exceptionally well. However, the wine project effectively hit critical mass a while ago and very quickly caught up. Then accelerated past in a cloud of UseGLSL=TRUE rendered prettyness. Indeed, the amount of regression in WineX/Cegeda meant that games such as HL2 failed to run whilst wine had them going with, in some cases, full HDR. And whilst it's recommended you do separate .wine directories... I've had no issues with a all-in-one setup. Transgaming, in effect, throw in the towel and look for a different business model as nobody is going to pay for WineX/Cegeda when Wine is 'superior' (it's all subjective, I'm sure Cegeda does something that wine doesn't...).
However, supporting wine would require CCP to submit patches to the wine project, which is open source. Now that's fine but it does mean as a programmer you've got to be careful what you code as you don't, legally, want to tread on anyone's toes and be on the wrong end of the resulting IP/(C) lawsuit. Nor as a small company would you want to officially support the tangled mess that is your average Linux distro once it's running in anger, with users who perhaps aren't all that technical; it requires knowledgeable (read expensive) people to do it officially. Transgaming provide a nice buffer for this, I've already spotted a few posters here with the usual CCP gold surround and who have TG in their name; obviously Transgaming people, thus they're doing all the leg work CCP would have to do (coding, support, packaging, etc.) for a price. As CCP are still a small company, makes sense to rope others in to doing it.
I can see wine being superior to the Transgaming client, but then, if I actually want something broken fixed... I'm stuffed unless the wine community figure out WTF's gone wrong.
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ElfeGER
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.11 15:33:00 -
[3]
wine doesn't need seperate installers/patches as it runs the windows software
comparing speed without a benchmark under eve is like lottery
wine is sometimes lagging behind because wine devs have to find out what's broken first without the ability to look into eve source code or even debug with self compiled versions
codeweavers is able to do task beased development as well and they had eve running on mac for ages already
that bottle system can be used with wine as well (WINEPREFIX and so on) just need a launcher script :D
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Snowcrash Winterheart2
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Posted - 2007.11.11 18:27:00 -
[4]
Originally by: El***ER wine doesn't need seperate installers/patches as it runs the windows software
The only thing I can see tripping up BOTH wine and Cegeda is the requirement for BITS in the new client. I honestly don't know if either of them have implemented something to do this; although I can see it being a trivial thing if it's just http get's.
Originally by: El***ER comparing speed without a benchmark under eve is like lottery
Quite so, even in Windows the EVE client fluctuates like crazy with only, seemingly, minor differences between host computers.
Originally by: El***ER that bottle system can be used with wine as well (WINEPREFIX and so on) just need a launcher script :D
Indeed. My point was that it seems that Cegeda requires this, wine doesn't or at least seems to survive quite nicely as one lump quite well.
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Namaro
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Posted - 2007.11.11 20:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: El***ER
that bottle system can be used with wine as well (WINEPREFIX and so on) just need a launcher script :D
d'oh *slapsforehead* i have several versions of the registry files and copy/move them around in the launcher scripts
thanks for the hint!
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Popsikle
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.11 22:32:00 -
[6]
Yes wine > this release.
I play under the official release and Its so laggy doing anything.
Play under wine with no issues what so ever. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime. |
Blue Rider
Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.12 04:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Blue Rider on 12/11/2007 04:51:03 Noob question (just installed ubuntu this weekend for the first time): Am I to expect lower fps/performance running under a form of Linux and its emulator (Wine or Cedega)?
Hopes shattered if this is the case, as an increase in performance is the only reason I'd move over to ubuntu...
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.11.12 08:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Blue Rider Edited by: Blue Rider on 12/11/2007 04:51:03 Noob question (just installed ubuntu this weekend for the first time): Am I to expect lower fps/performance running under a form of Linux and its emulator (Wine or Cedega)?
Hopes shattered if this is the case, as an increase in performance is the only reason I'd move over to ubuntu...
Depends on your hardware and the status of your windows system really. I have a very messed up windows installation that is so messed up it takes like 5 min just to boot(from login to "workable"). Compared to that linux runs alot faster, also my windows tends to die the ram death.
You can also do a few tricks on older systems like using a really minimalistic windowmanager, or even starting a X session just with eve in it. That all being said, its unlikely to get a speedincrease due to worse drivers on linux currently.
Unlike what people think the actual translation doesnt really cost you speed, it costs you cpu cycles which is NOT the same as speed unless eve already maxes out your cpu in windows.
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Alice Beeblebrox
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.12 15:29:00 -
[9]
Wine is not a solution to run EVE on Linux, it is only a workaround.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
Here is a link for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2 "Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" -Linus "... So does ***** *******. Existence is not a valid endorsement |
Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.11.12 19:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alice Beeblebrox Wine is not a solution to run EVE on Linux, it is only a workaround.
I assume you're including the Cedega/Cider variants also. I beg to differ.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.11.12 21:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bentula Unlike what people think the actual translation doesnt really cost you speed, it costs you cpu cycles which is NOT the same as speed unless eve already maxes out your cpu in windows.
Given that the processor of interest is maxed out then it does impact on framerate.
That said, the compatibility layer itself is not an issue. What causes any real impact on performance is, as you said, functions that aren't optimised for how the game was written.
And vise-versa, sometimes the function utilised under the compatibility layer might be faster than the original.
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Snowcrash Winterheart2
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Posted - 2007.11.13 05:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Solbright altalt
Originally by: Alice Beeblebrox Wine is not a solution to run EVE on Linux, it is only a workaround.
I assume you're including the Cedega/Cider variants also. I beg to differ.
Considering Cegeda == Wine, just a really old fork that's been heavily panel beaten and Cider == Cegeda given a Cocoa (or whatever the damn OS X interface API is called) frontend and tied in to its OGL system. So the point is quite valid.
Chances of seeing an actual native client for either machine? Nil. I can't see CCP having the slightest interest in ripping out all the DX stuff and replacing it with OGL. You never know, perhaps when EVE dies a natural death and EVE 2: Electric Bogaloo appears that'll be Linux/OS X native. So that being the case, I'll doth my hat to them for at least giving us a nod.
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Solbright altalt
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Posted - 2007.11.13 07:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Snowcrash Winterheart2
Originally by: Solbright altalt
Originally by: Alice Beeblebrox Wine is not a solution to run EVE on Linux, it is only a workaround.
I assume you're including the Cedega/Cider variants also. I beg to differ.
Considering Cegeda == Wine
Which is why I assumed he meant them all. Wine is a solution, and a pretty bloody good one at that.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.11.13 20:07:00 -
[14]
There isnt alot of room between works well and does not work. If wine/cedega/cider allows me to play eve its a good solution and i dont care for a native client. People get really angry about it, but unless your a OS evangelist you simly dont care how ccp makes it so that you can play eve on the OS of your choice, you just want to play it.
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