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Agetec Core
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Posted - 2007.11.13 11:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Agetec Core on 13/11/2007 11:05:11
Somewhere on this site (cant remember where) there was an article on how after amarr developed warp technology, it basically co*k slapped every other race it met until it faced the Gallentes and Jovians.
I'm curious how such a large empire with the fleet it had could be stopped by a Gallente nation many times smaller than its own. Fluff wise anyway, this being completely irrelevant to any ingame situations.
Basically, how the hell did Gallente "match" Amarr? I assume it would be a technological advantage but Amarr developed the warp drive first. This of course dosent rule out the possiblity that a fundamentalist government might be slow on the technology but I assume that the emperor isnt an idiot and wont not take a chance to buff up his fleet with new technology. The sheer number of amarr ships alone should've been a huge factor of the war.
Note: if anyone has links to amarr history fluff, please feel free to share 
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Drethon
Gallente
Lutin Group
Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.13 12:11:00 -
[2]
From what I've seen reading the backstory, I'm not sure that the Amarr ever faced the Gallente. I believe the Amarr discovered the Gallente and Jove at the same time and decided to go after the bigger one first.
The Jove then decimated a large portion (not sure how many were at the battle of Vak'Atioth but I suspect a large part) of the Amarr navy. As a result the Amarr no longer had the strength to face the Gallente and have either changed their tune or are biding their time until they can properly rebuild.
"I may not believe in what you believe in but I will fight to the death to protect your right to believe." |
Tileal
Gallente
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:04:00 -
[3]
Additionally right after the Amarr lost their battle with the Jovians the Minmitar rebelled, covertly supported and equipped by the Gallente.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.14 01:26:00 -
[4]
Amarr got nerfed 
sorry i know that exactly the reponse you were trying to avoid but i couldnt resist.
According to the literature they met the jovians and decided to take them out but in thier overconfidence they didnt send their entire fleet and the large section they did send got obliterated. During the following turmulent times caused by the different amarrian familys accusing eachother of this failure the minmatar siezed the chance to rebel.
By the time the new minmatar republic was formed and direct hostilities had died down the ammarians had apparently begun to enjoy the benefits that trading with such a vibrant economy could bring.
Now im sure the amarrian still view gallente as heathens but they know that any attack on the gallentte would bring in the minmatar republic which means it wouldnt be an unresisted crusade like in the former days and there would probabaly be at least some lost battles. The battle with the jovians proved that the empire does not hold up well to loosing and therefore a fragile peace will hold... at least until the caldari decide they fancy joining in.
(although in terms of in state can you imagine caldari and amarr fighting minmatar and gallentte  )
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NightHaunter
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.14 03:16:00 -
[5]
Although the Amarrians rediscovered most of the technology lost after the eve-gate first. They didn't exactly develope it to its full potential. This could probably be attributed to their closed-minded conservative attitude towards development of technology and its uses. (They still hate genetically modified food) Second issue the Amarr face, rigid military structure. Amarr tactics in combat really come down to "Get in a line, march towards them and let God decide who will be the victor (it's going to be us! Anyone who thinks otherwise gets a las round in the head!)" So despite superior numbers, they were not able to subjugate the Gallente due to poorer utilization of space technology and tactics. Although I don't think the Amarr and Gallente actually ever engaged each other on a large scale, some smart cookie in the Amarr high command must of seen what would happen and made sure they just stayed in a cold war for a few hundred years.
Thats my 2 cents.
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Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2007.11.21 02:51:00 -
[6]
Theodicy has quite some information regarding this story.
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Relain Linday
Amarr
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.25 22:59:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Firkragg
Amarr got nerfed
Not only nerfed, but SO NERFED, that as far as Amarr goes, Tyrrax Thorrk is more interesting than the whole Amarr backstory.
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Arron S
Gallente
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.26 06:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Arron S on 26/11/2007 06:44:47
The Amarr empire mite have the largest fleet in eve, but as stated before, their battle tactics are poor and crap. In all likely hood the Amarr would be able to make some gains into Gallente Territory, but end up being replied and then losing territory to the Gallente before turning into a stale mate.
The Minmatar were able to repel the Amarr with much less sophisticated technology because of superior battle tactics likely drew up from Gallente advisor's. Also to mention the Gallente had a lot of experience in Guerrilla warfare, from the Gallente - Caldari war.
If the Mimatar keep up with "reviving" traditions they are going to end up at each others throats and end up being subjects of the Amarr empire again.
signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques(mods@ccpgames.com)
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Silas Vitalia
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Posted - 2007.11.26 19:03:00 -
[9]
As is my understanding, there were several contributing factors as to why the Amarrians were unable to go after the Gallente:
-Khanid II withdraws from the Empire and takes a good portion of the fleet with him (he was head of the navy at the time)
-Joves wipe out another huge portion of the fleet at V.A.
-Resulting confusion allows Minmatar to rebel and split off (with weapons/assistance from the Gallente, don't forget).
At this point, not enough left to keep the reclaiming going and go after anyone; I suspect all resources were directed into keeping things under control within the empire.
Going to be very interesting after the EVE novel comes out and they finally get the story/wars going again next year. Here's hoping for an Amarr/Caldari alliance versus the Minmatar/Gallente, which things seem to be headed towards anyway.....
-Silas
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FreeMarket
Incognito Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.26 21:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: FreeMarket on 26/11/2007 21:53:51
I would not mind seeing links to the Amarr history myself. I hope to see a book soon.
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Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2007.11.27 00:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arron S
Edited by: Arron S on 26/11/2007 06:44:47
The Amarr empire mite have the largest fleet in eve, but as stated before, their battle tactics are poor and crap. In all likely hood the Amarr would be able to make some gains into Gallente Territory, but end up being replied and then losing territory to the Gallente before turning into a stale mate.
The Minmatar were able to repel the Amarr with much less sophisticated technology because of superior battle tactics likely drew up from Gallente advisor's. Also to mention the Gallente had a lot of experience in Guerrilla warfare, from the Gallente - Caldari war.
If the Mimatar keep up with "reviving" traditions they are going to end up at each others throats and end up being subjects of the Amarr empire again.
Actually this is not necessarily correct. The Amarr had inferior battle tactics because they never had any need for them. Before the Jove they had never found any enemy worthy enough, any capable of resisting them. The Minmatarr only really took the right moment.
But the Amarr learn, like everyone does. And probably now days their fleet is propperly trained in complex battletactics, in the weaknessess of the other Empire's fleets and their strengths; their battletactics, and so on. Like everyone of the Empires. Afterall, the Amarr aren't stupid, and know that the next war to come will probably mark the destiny of the Empire: another defeat will make the Dream dissipate, and a victory can restart the path of the Reclaiming and the grandeour of the Empire. So they have to be preparing for it very deeply.
And they have a good source to learn from. The Amarr loyalist paramilitaries are probably the most active loyalist group in space (together with the Minmatarr). They have thousands of battlereports and tactics to learn from there, and the CVA conquest of Providence is a great source of "field trials" for such theories and techniques. Proof of this is that the Amarr had an obsolete and old fleet before the Jove (massive, but old), but now they are coming up with new ships as fast as anyone else (obviously due to game mechanics, but that is background at the same time).
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:20:00 -
[12]
The Gallente Federation is not many times smaller than the Amarr Empire. They're slightly smaller, but not by a lot. And their technology makes up for the size difference.
The Gallente and Amarr never went to war, but if they had, it would have been a long and brutal war. Though if the Caldari had joined (which they might have - the reason for peace was that both sides saw the Amarr as a greater threat) they would have tipped the scales in favor of the Gallente.
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Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
Sofring Eternus
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.27 20:25:00 -
[13]
Here's a link to the EvE stories on jump gates (source) and how the Amarr were the first to start interstellar travel, by about 1200 years, but it took the Gallente and Caldari only 800 years to catch up to them.
Here's a link to the Battle of Vak'Atioth
According to the Chronicle, there were 200 Amarr ships at the battle, and that was "a force not even approaching the full size of the great Amarr Navy."
The Amarr started to gather the rest of their fleet for another attack, but thats when the Gallente supplied Minmatar slaves had a massive revolt. The Amarr signed a peace treaty with the Jovians so that they could attend to it.
The slave rebellion led to the Minmatar Republic forming, as well as the Ammatar Mandate forming as a buffer zone between the Republic and the Empire. The Ammatar Mandate is mostly peopled by the old Aristocrats and Tribal Leaders of the Minmatar that were given positions of power under the Amarrians. The Ammatar Mandate is backed militarily by the Amarr when under direct threat, and covertly supported by the Caldari.(Source)
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ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ
Amarr dont need Grr... and RAWR is definately too much, but some Oomph would be nice. |
Mithfindel
Gallente
St. Julian Social Club
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mithfindel on 02/12/2007 18:58:43
Besides of what Sepherim mentioned, the fiction does actually support that the Amarr haven't been standing still. According to the fiction (ship descriptions), several of the more popular Amarr ships are brand new, including all T2's, likely Abaddon and Harbinger and certainly the Arbitrator and the Punisher as well as the Executor. Also, one of the chronicles (Malaetu Shakor) does mention Amarr Navy elite squadrons developing new counters.
Also, it is worthy to remember that besides of plain odds in the game, to the imaginary people within the universe psychological effects would also be notable. Whereas before the Amarr had been the only warp and jump capable race in existence (by their point of view) they now discovered three races in rapid succession (Gallente, Jove and Caldari).
It is also good to remember that the Gallente were a military might back then, locked in a war for quite some time against the Caldari. This would likely mean larger than normal fleet. The Amarr fleet is larger than any two fleets together, but it must be partially tied at patrolling the 40 % share of Empire space it's supposed to control, and then it had just faced a setback against the Jove. And a largish (secretly Gallente-supported) revolt wouldn't help, either - it was rather wise for the Gallente to create a buffer zone.
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Soratah
Amarr
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Soratah on 08/12/2007 02:00:50
I believe the entire Amarr military doctrine is based pretty much on their ship designs. The Amarr in early stages of war would allow encroachment upon it's territory. Amarr would fall back until it had sufficient forces to compeltely overwhelm and outnumber the assaulting fleets. The Navy would probably respond then with targetting the logistics chains or attacking colonies on the border with endgame level concepts. E.g. burn it dont conquer it, then the opposing fleet would have to garrison units across the entire border to protect it's people. With the fleet spread thin the Amarr navy could then focus on particular points again with overwhelming force.
As for the fight with the Jove, The battle caused the Amarr to lose 200+ ships and from what it mentions in the PF that was a small detachement of the military.
In regards to Gallente, I believe it was their support of the Minmatar with weapons and technology that caused a distabilisation in the area. I dont believe the Gallente would of been able to hold off an Amarr result for long, as the above post mentions that there was battles between the Caldari and the Gallente, considering the Caldari were merely a single planet at that point leaves that the Gallente military was ill-prepared or undermanned until after the war.
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Xauxau
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Posted - 2007.12.11 19:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Soratah
Edited by: Soratah on 08/12/2007 02:00:50
The Amarr in early stages of war would allow encroachment upon it's territory. Amarr would fall back until it had sufficient forces to compeltely overwhelm and outnumber the assaulting fleets.
Which by itself provides powerful motives for the Amarr to avoid a large-scale war with any of its interstellar neighbors. This strategy would result in a massive loss of wealth and property to the affected Holders.
The Amarr backstory & lore provides lots of justifications for them to avoid war, despite their penchant for religious fanatacism and their very powerful military. The Empire is highly decentralized with power split up among Holder familes that hate each other to begin with. And the heads of these families are all eligible to become emperor if the current one dies, but have to commit ritual suicide if they fail to be selected. That's why Khanid seceded, BTW.
That little governing feature is enough to make any sitting emperor, and most of the top Holders, VERY reluctant to go to war. A war represents a perfect opportunity for another Holder to assassinate the sitting emperor and attempt to take over, or to secede if he would prefer to enjoy the benefits of cloned immortality for a few thousand years rather than take an 80% chance of slitting his wrists while sitting in a warm bathtub during the next decade.
The Amarr political system and culture was a great spur to conquest while enslaving helpless primitives. When dealing with enemies that can shoot back its a major liability.
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Avel Kereka
Amarr
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.11 20:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Soratah
Edited by: Soratah on 08/12/2007 02:00:50In regards to Gallente, I believe it was their support of the Minmatar with weapons and technology that caused a distabilisation in the area. I dont believe the Gallente would of been able to hold off an Amarr result for long, as the above post mentions that there was battles between the Caldari and the Gallente, considering the Caldari were merely a single planet at that point leaves that the Gallente military was ill-prepared or undermanned until after the war.
The Caldari actually had a few secret colonies at the time, so it was a bit more than one planet... and people neglect to mention that, while the Caldari did manage to hold off the Gallente for awhile, it was only a matter of time before they were crushed by the greater part of the Gallente fleet (hence why they abandoned Caldari Prime). The Federation wasn't that much smaller than the Empire when they first met, and they generally posses better technology and tactics, placing them on equal footing.
In response to the question, war with the Federation would be utterly massive and it would drain the Empire's stretched resources, leaving it open to invasion from others. It wasn't feasible then, and it isn't feasible now, short of an alliance with the Caldari and re-absorption of the Khanid.
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Cipher7
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.12 04:36:00 -
[18]
Same as any Empire.
First you go around gobbling up your neighbors.
Then the other powers become concerned and team up to bring you down.
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