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Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
111
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Posted - 2012.02.03 20:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Back to the OP...I think that there's a couple of ways to look at this.
If you are in nullsec and you aren't RR fit, you basically need to toe the line with the kiting MWD stuff in gangs. This may see you get vaped every now and then by alpha shots, but you are more likely to have to suck up ceptors, and GTFO Sabres. The number of people with decent rail and arty fit ships that can gank you before you GTFO is actually usually pretty small. I mean, yes, you might be unlucky to land a AHAC sniper zealot blob but AB won't save you anyway.
If you are fitting for the RR AF doctrine, then you need AB for the sig tanking. No way out of it. You just have to get a good warpin on BC's or similar and its all gravy. You'll struggle with ceptors and so on, but you can tank them till they get bored.
In lowsec for solo work it will depend on your strategy how you fit it - and on how good an AF pilot you are. You won't be doing much fighting on gates unless its to bait aggro, and in this case you'll want an AB so that they won't lock you up before you are back within jump range...and if they do, you'll survive the DPS that actually lands on you. Its not likely a thrasher will be trying to insta you under gate guns (unless he's suicidal).
Hisec, you probably want a MWD or dual prop just because you'll either be trying to munch mission runners in their missions, or trying to escape some dude who has 65 guardians backing him up. If you are fighting on undock, you really don't need MWD, you need your head looked at.
For wormholes, AB fit, the whole way. You'll be either getting a warp at zero with sleepers on the field (often) and need the low sig to survive the latter and no need to motor 40km @ 1.5km/s to your victim, or you'll be within 5km of a wormhole.
So, TL;DR version: I DUNNO!!!
I was in my Ishkur yesterday with an AB, scram, and cap booster in mid slots. I had a coercer chasing me who I knew was using t2 medium pulse lasers. I looked up his fit on BC. He kept trying to land at his optimal and started pounding me with his lasers at 20KM or so.
With an AB, I wasn't confident that I could get under his guns before I would pop. So I bailed. I couldn't help but think if I had a MWD that I could easily go in real fast, set orbit at 2500, and blast away. He had no tank as he was using 2-3 TEs and a heat sink in his low slot.
Do you think I could've closed that 20KM distance and get under his guns with my repper and AB?
Edit: BC said he 1 or 2 fits in regards to his high slots. It was either all medium pulse lasers or 5-6 medium pulse lasers and 2-3 dual light lasers. I guess he was hedging Apparently, once you create a sig. You can't completely delete it. So this is my sig...for now. |
Berendas
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
191
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Posted - 2012.02.03 23:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:
I was in my Ishkur yesterday with an AB, scram, and cap booster in mid slots. I had a coercer chasing me who I knew was using t2 medium pulse lasers. I looked up his fit on BC. He kept trying to land at his optimal and started pounding me with his lasers at 20KM or so.
With an AB, I wasn't confident that I could get under his guns before I would pop. So I bailed. I couldn't help but think if I had a MWD that I could easily go in real fast, set orbit at 2500, and blast away. He had no tank as he was using 2-3 TEs and a heat sink in his low slot.
Do you think I could've closed that 20KM distance and get under his guns with my repper and AB? What's the optimal on his guns? I don't fly Amarr ships so I wouldn't know.
Edit: BC said he 1 or 2 fits in regards to his high slots. It was either all medium pulse lasers or 5-6 medium pulse lasers and 2-3 dual light lasers. I guess he was hedging
If he was hitting you at 20km, he would be using Scorch. You could try to close range, but he would pretty easily track you while you moved in. Just before you would get to your own optimal, he probably would have switched to faction Multifrequency, and then he would have a much closer optimal. Trying to close on a Coercer from 20km with an AB frig is a pretty bad idea, I would only try it if you had a flight of EC-300's to break off his damage while you closed in. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
752
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Posted - 2012.02.04 00:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yeah, coercer is just bad news. It puts out good DPS at all ranges and has fantastic tracking. You aren't likely to survive to get in range with an AB and you aren't likely to be able to outtrack it with a MWD. I don't know whether you can survive approach and outtrack it up close with with an AB (obviously dualprop).
They're just really tough customers with the weakness that they can't actually hold you down.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
273
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Posted - 2012.02.04 05:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Two years ago I lost my DLP Coercer (8-guns, MWD, 3-HS/DCU .. Gank or Bust!) to a DP ishkur with barely a dent made in his armour .. Dessies now have more dps and Ishkur has more tank (+lowslot). Tracking close targets are nigh impossible if the assailant knows to ignore the orbit button.
If he has a MWD (check his speed/agility), I'd say go for it. |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
231
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Posted - 2012.02.04 07:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Two years ago I lost my DLP Coercer (8-guns, MWD, 3-HS/DCU .. Gank or Bust!) to a DP ishkur with barely a dent made in his armour .. Dessies now have more dps and Ishkur has more tank (+lowslot). Tracking close targets are nigh impossible if the assailant knows to ignore the orbit button.
If he has a MWD (check his speed/agility), I'd say go for it.
I put that coercer into EFT and I like it. As for tracking - throw three energy mestasis rigs on. Your tracking goes from .5133 to .7243. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
273
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Posted - 2012.02.04 09:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Heh, originally started using it to simplify shopping runs but it became my standard fit after it tore through a 400 plate auto-Trash and I outdamaged shield/gank Ruppies on larger targets .. generally use twin metastasis and one locus though .. fun to fly and very effective as a dps platform (which is what the Coercer is with just 1 mid). |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
109
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Posted - 2012.02.04 18:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
With the new passive bonus the mwd fit should speed tank better as long as you keep high speed. You should choose the AB only when you need the cap or scram immunity. |
Berendas
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
191
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Posted - 2012.02.04 19:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:With the new passive bonus the mwd fit should speed tank better as long as you keep high speed. You should choose the AB only when you need the cap or scram immunity.
It seems like most of the time AF's are up against other frig hulls or the odd cruiser. In both cases I think scram immunity is huge, although I only PVP in low sec now. It's very possible MWD AF's are big in high sec and 0.0 as heavy tacklers or something else. |
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