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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
fell1234
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Posted - 2007.11.19 13:54:00 -
[61]
Its not salvage that is the problem. The problem is reducing probing to require a week of training and couple mil isk investment to be able to sniff out deadspace mission runners. Change probing requirements to find deadspaces to require intensive sp investment. Ban trial accounts from using probes. Making probing deadspaces require such little investment in SP/isk/player ability is whats wrong.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.11.19 13:55:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Estephania
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Originally by: Estephania Edited by: Estephania on 19/11/2007 13:45:30
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
pwn him ?? Its empire, you are not prepared to risk anything to get rewards, neither is he. read and comprehend before you post next time.
No, it's you who are wrong. If he can be flagged, then by salvaging my wrecks he accepts the risk. And I accept the risk by shooting him. Ok? I think everyone is happy.
read up dude, i dont think you unbderstand. ill put it in caps so you might be able to read it better. IT IS NOT YOUR WRECK.
Finally we've reached the problem here. The current game mechanics need to be fixed, so that byproduct of YOUR work would be YOURS. If he wants to take the chance, he salvages and if you want to take the chance, you shoot. Everyone can bail out, because not to touch anything or not to shoot are also an option.
where does it say that when you blow up a guy, everything he had is now your property ? Its doesnt, and never will, leaving some loot floating in space is a risk you take, we dont need changes to the mechanics because a few dudes get something stolen thats not even theirs in the first place.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.19 13:56:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 19/11/2007 13:57:34
Quote:
read up dude, i dont think you unbderstand. ill put it in caps so you might be able to read it better. IT IS NOT YOUR WRECK.
On a side note, it's exactly because "IT IS NOT YOUR WRECK" that people ask it to change it to "IT IS YOUR WRECK". I mean, what's the point of changing something if it's not changing ?
And, if you want to go that way, loot (aka modules remaining from blowing up a ship) belongs to the guy that killed it... why doesn't wrecks ?
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
Estephania
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:04:00 -
[64]
If the guy is called "Sansha Slave Lord" then the loot is yours, and the wreck should be yours too. I think you understand that NPCs won't come with a ganksquad to avenge their fallen comrade and take back the precious loot. When you blow up an NPC, the wreck should be flagged as yours as well as the loot. Of course this is not the case when you kill a player.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:07:00 -
[65]
Originally by: OneSock
Originally by: Cailais
The wrecks not yours - its debris, litter, rubbish and as such is freely available to the first pilot to salvage it.
While I do not agree with the subject of this thread, I do find it odd that stealing a usually worthless item of T1 junk from the wreck does flag you, but salvaging items worth 300k+ from a wreck doesn't flag at all.
But hey it's luck of the draw I suppose and the whole rig thing is borked anyway. IMO, make it easier/quicker to salvage and increase the drop rate to reduce the value of rig parts/rigs.
As a concept, salvaged debris/litter/rubbish should not value at 100k isk/item. That's the value of T2 salvage parts IMO. Knock a zero off all rig prices. problem solved.
Dumbest.
Post.
Ever.
Today. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:08:00 -
[66]
Salvage <> Yours
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:11:00 -
[67]
if they put a timer on wrecks that they eg after an hour become publicly salvagable, then they better put in a timer on cans at the same time to make them lootable without flagging after an hour too.
Secure 3rd party service. |
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:12:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Estephania
Finally we've reached the problem here. The current game mechanics need to be fixed, so that byproduct of YOUR work would be YOURS. If he wants to take the chance, he salvages and if you want to take the chance, you shoot. Everyone can bail out, because not to touch anything or not to shoot are also an option.
But then what about NPCs ? If I warp into your mission with my Domi and start pew pewing the high bounty battleships, are you gonna start whining that I'm "stealing" your rats ?
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:30:00 -
[69]
From Prism X:
Quote:
If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former.
You can read the thread HERE
Simply, Salvaging is a mini-profession, it is not a mission runner's entitlement program. And yes, I *am* a mission runner. CCP has considered the problem, but is very unlikely to change it
If you have problems with people salvaging your junk laying around move to a less populated system.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:32:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Chribba if they put a timer on wrecks that they eg after an hour become publicly salvagable, then they better put in a timer on cans at the same time to make them lootable without flagging after an hour too.
Of course then they would have to make it so that wrecks were probeable or no wreck would ever be found, meaning a gank squad could have 100s of potential things to scan for in LowSec....
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Kaya Divine
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:34:00 -
[71]
Morality is not something that people have, its something that need to be learned. To steal something that is not yours is nice thing to have in game...it gives it more diversity. If people are griefed, cheated etc...its theirs mistake.
But to warp in mission when player have aggro from mission rats and salvage wrecks which mission runner intended to salvage when S/He have chance...is lame...
There is numerous game mechanic update which can prevent this.
But to give players who destroyed npc ship...period that they only can salvage wreck lets say 15mins...and for others players wrecks from npc`s will not be salvageable...unless timer of 15mins ends.
Or just change salvager from high slot to low...give it range of 50km(so that long range fighters would not be only target left for salvage thief's....(Usually when battle is over nearest wreck from me is 30km up to 150km) and I will not complain at all..
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:39:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kaya Divine To steal something that is not yours is nice thing to have in game...it gives it more diversity. If people are griefed, cheated etc...its theirs mistake.
But to warp in mission when player have aggro from mission rats and salvage wrecks which mission runner intended to salvage when S/He have chance...is lame...
I just love it when people accept almost all of EVE's design and mechanics, but draw the line just below the one they don't like.
-
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:47:00 -
[73]
Try missioning in low sec.
Never had anyone warp in to steal my wrecks. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 14:59:00 -
[74]
If this gets implemented, I can tell you that you will be sorry you ever wanted this...
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:03:00 -
[75]
Almost as sorry as people are about stealing loot, because what is proposed can be done with looting...
-- random eve-related content -- |
fell1234
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:06:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka If this gets implemented, I can tell you that you will be sorry you ever wanted this...
Yes those 2 week old chars infesting every mission hub stealing salvage are a force to fear!
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:10:00 -
[77]
Make all wrecks tractorable by anyone, thanks.
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Cailais
Amarr W A R
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:26:00 -
[78]
Reduce the build requirements of rigs.
Salvage prices drop as rigs become more affordable: fewer will want to salvage as the component value will drop like a stone, fewer will bother stealing it.
Salvage becomes a 'low level' activity - probably for newer corps / pilots getting onto the industrial ladder.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Estephania
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Posted - 2007.11.19 15:44:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Cailais Reduce the build requirements of rigs.
Salvage prices drop as rigs become more affordable: fewer will want to salvage as the component value will drop like a stone, fewer will bother stealing it.
Salvage becomes a 'low level' activity - probably for newer corps / pilots getting onto the industrial ladder.
C.
This is something I can agree with. Make the junk worth as junk and high lvl mission runners won't waste their time on that. Now the mission loot is worthless, it's a pathetic joke most of the time. And ppl are trying to compensate that with salvaging. Reduce req's for rigs, make wrecks less profitable and only appealing to new players. Improve the loot tables, now it's ridiculous. I can kill a 2.5 mill rat and find miner I and a couple of non-named modules (some of them not even battleship loot).
To the Goon: what is the argumentation behind your proposal to make the wrecks tracktorable by everyone? Would like to know that.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.19 18:40:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Estephania
To the Goon: what is the argumentation behind your proposal to make the wrecks tracktorable by everyone? Would like to know that.
It makes it easier to steal someone's wreck. Hell gimme aggro from them I don't care.
Liang
-- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
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The Hooch
Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 18:41:00 -
[81]
AMEN! I hate poachers!
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.19 18:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: The Hooch AMEN! I hate poachers!
I hated people who stole my wrecks when I was in the Privateers too. It was like... WTF M8 I just blew that mofo up and ur stealinz my wrecksz!
Ownership of all wrecks should be shared between the killer and victim (at the very least). If you just killed them, its not like they can't already shoot you anyway. ;-)
Liang
-- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:03:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Jobe darkhunter i wouldn't mind if there was an hour timer on wrecks then they where fair game but give us a chance to loot our own wrecks
How would you incorporate this timer? Don't get me wrong I like the idea but how would I know if there is an hour left or not on the salvage?
Something else to think about, after a fleet battle, if the winning force doesn't wait an hour to claim the wrecks how long you going to give them kill rights on the salvage you created? ________________________
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:03:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Estephania
To the Goon: what is the argumentation behind your proposal to make the wrecks tracktorable by everyone? Would like to know that.
Comedy: I want to drag the wreck of the next BoB Titan we kill all over the goddamn system
Non-comedy: Its annoying as Christ to jump into your favorite ratting system and see the belts filled with sweet, sweet battleship wrecks, yet can't do anything about it because lol, not in your corp. Would make it easier for me and for any newbee coming along in his space-hoover Cormorant
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:04:00 -
[85]
So, the 20 other threads on this subject did nothing to slow down this subject? For goodness sakes, people.
1) Petition it or 2) GTFO
If you do the first, you don't need to post here, as the subject has been beaten to death. If you don't do the first, do the second. We're done.
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:06:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Estephania If the guy is called "Sansha Slave Lord" then the loot is yours, and the wreck should be yours too. I think you understand that NPCs won't come with a ganksquad to avenge their fallen comrade and take back the precious loot. When you blow up an NPC, the wreck should be flagged as yours as well as the loot. Of course this is not the case when you kill a player.
Ooh - now that sounds like a good idea.
Hey Devs: add this feature. Let the NPC send in squads to recover their dead and try and salvage their ships. ________________________
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:13:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Estephania
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Originally by: Estephania Edited by: Estephania on 19/11/2007 13:45:30
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
pwn him ?? Its empire, you are not prepared to risk anything to get rewards, neither is he. read and comprehend before you post next time.
No, it's you who are wrong. If he can be flagged, then by salvaging my wrecks he accepts the risk. And I accept the risk by shooting him. Ok? I think everyone is happy.
read up dude, i dont think you unbderstand. ill put it in caps so you might be able to read it better. IT IS NOT YOUR WRECK.
Finally we've reached the problem here. The current game mechanics need to be fixed, so that byproduct of YOUR work would be YOURS. If he wants to take the chance, he salvages and if you want to take the chance, you shoot. Everyone can bail out, because not to touch anything or not to shoot are also an option.
Within half an hour of this mechanic being introduced, perhaps less, there will be crying on the forums because some enterprising prober has quietly killed a ship in some mission, then wtfpwned the mission-runner when he unwittingly salvages it. Just ask a miner who's been can-flipped lately.
What next? You'll want kill rights if someone shoots "your" rats, I suppose? Why not just cut to the chase and ask to make being in the same grid as you a CONCORDable offence?
Or, you know, just play a single player game with a chat window open.
CCP deliberately made missions non-instanced, and they did it for a reason. Theft, treachery, deceit, non-consensual PvP and risk/reward are all integral parts of the game. You do NOT have the right to have the game protect you or your property. You can defend it or lose it.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:17:00 -
[88]
I know some folks like to compare EVE to Wow (and others like to flame the crap out of them as well) so here's a little tidbit from WoW....
You go out and kill a bear. You loot the corpse for any items that might be on the body. If you have the Skinning profession and a skinning knife, you can skin the corpse for some leather stuff, or just leave the body. Once the body is looted, ANYONE CAN SKIN THE BEAR. NO AGGRO.
Gee, I think that WoW got that one right.
Personally, I run a salvager on most of my ships just for salvage opportunities (and a tractor beam on mission ships to speed things up)
Adapt or die. This Carebear has adapted. It's not that hard. _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Estephania
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:49:00 -
[89]
To Angel DeMorphis:
Exploration sites are there for all. Your competitor can scan them too and be the 1-st to find them. They are there regardless if you find them or not. Missions are "spawned" because of my interaction with the agent. Without me clicking that agent chat, there'd be no mission, no rats and no wrecks obviously. That's the difference.
To Malcanis:
You say: it's your job to defend your property. It's right, it's my job, but now I have no tools to do it. Flag the poacher and it will be up to me to decide if to defend my property or not. Why would there be any cry from mission runners if wreck flagging would be implemented? Are you assuming that all mission runners have absolutely no idea how to PvP or how flagging works? Or may be those several-weeks-old alts that are ninja salvaging wrecks will be a big danger to me when I switch to PvP ship for their "revenge" attempt. Or even if I lose, so what? We lose some, we win some. And nobody in his right mind won't be sitting in a faction-fitted battleship after killing a poacher and waiting for his PvP ship to arrive. HAC or Command Ship would be more suitable for that.
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realbadman
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:02:00 -
[90]
please ccp?
I'd like the friendly happy bears to be able to shoot me when i steel their precious salvage because steeling is baaaad and i need to be punished.
While we're at it, how about letting us scan for wrecks so i can do my part to keep space nice and cleen and purty.
The salvage is nice but what i really want are the gist fittings that the dumb bears want to put at risk over their precious salvage
So, pretty please ccp? With sugar on top?
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