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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:44:00 -
[1]
im not sure where to put this so ill put it here-
Im a recon pilot, sb pilot, cov ops pilot. but these ships are built for cloaks. what ****es me off are these battleships and such that cloak off in a safespot when they run from you.
heres my suggestion- give cloaks a 'failure to cycle' clause, so that a cloak on a ship that wasnt built to cloak has the chance to be uncloaked.
to give the recons, sb, and cov ops (and soon black ops if they cloakers too?) a claus- a 25% per level chance of not uncloaking each time the cloak cycles. t1 cloak would have a 10 minute cycle time and t2 a 30 minute, cov ops cloak same. this would require the 'hard core' cov ops and recon pilots to train up to lvl 4. that would give a 100% chance of never having a cloak cycle fail. where do i put this for devs to see?
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:45:00 -
[2]
Heres my suggestion. Leave cloaking devices alone. They already work as intended.
www.eve-players.com |
Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:49:00 -
[3]
noted, and ignored...
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Alex Low
Minmatar Nobody Ever Really Dies
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:50:00 -
[4]
cloaks already hit your targeting speed for wtf can't lock in time
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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:52:00 -
[5]
so...
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ViolenTUK Heres my suggestion. Leave cloaking devices alone. They already work as intended.
Not really... How larger ships BS and Cap are supposed to be cloakable is silly. I think there should be a specialized scanprobe that could be used to locate cloaked ships, with a % chance of getting signal based upon the size of the ship, with BS and Capitals being easy to discover, and Cov-ops and recons (the ships that are actually supposed to be cloakers) being almost impossible.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 04:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ViolenTUK on 19/11/2007 04:59:09
Originally by: Illyrinia so...
So they are nerfed enough anyway.
Originally by: Fish Mittens
How larger ships BS and Cap are supposed to be cloakable is silly. I think there should be a specialized scanprobe that could be used to locate cloaked ships, with a % chance of getting signal based upon the size of the ship, with BS and Capitals being easy to discover, and Cov-ops and recons (the ships that are actually supposed to be cloakers) being almost impossible.
Nonsense any ship that can fit a cloaking device is supposed to be a cloaker. Covert-ops/recons are adjusted ships that have bonuses in alignment with their speciality.
Cloaking devices are are meant to make you completely undetectable thats the whole point. If you could scan them out they wouldnt be cloaked.
Reference:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=638796
www.eve-players.com |
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:00:00 -
[8]
Cloaks make for interesting game mechanics. Using one takes you out of the fight, and even fitting one makes you less useful in a fight. So they're actually pretty well balanced like most other modules. Any ship can use them, but they're by far more useful on certain ones; again, just like most modules. -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:22:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Nonsense any ship that can fit a cloaking device is supposed to be a cloaker. Covert-ops/recons are adjusted ships that have bonuses in alignment with their speciality.
Cloaking devices are are meant to make you completely undetectable thats the whole point. If you could scan them out they wouldnt be cloaked.
No this is not Nonsense, Its just another broken / abused game mechanic in eve. My (and I think the OP's) point is that while cloaks work fine for most combat ships, they are abused by players who macro rat / isk farm in cloaked battleships. They have no intention of ever engaging in combat, and simply cloak in a safespot as soon as anyone enters local. This makes it impossible for any number of players with any level of skills and equipment to locate them.
I think that a large part of the eve 0.0 based community agrees that it should not be impossible to stop this kind of activity. It should be possible with some specialised equipement and some effort, to hunt down these players who sit cloaked in ratting battleships in safespots. If a player wants to rat in a system in relative safety, they should have to go to the effort of setting up a POS, It's way too easy for them at the moment.
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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:24:00 -
[10]
finally someone GETS IT
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fish Mittens
Its just another broken / abused game mechanic in eve. My (and I think the OP's) point is that while cloaks work fine for most combat ships, they are abused by players who macro rat / isk farm in cloaked battleships. They have no intention of ever engaging in combat, and simply cloak in a safe spot as soon as anyone enters local. This makes it impossible for any number of players with any level of skills and equipment to locate them.
I understand that there are types of players that are less desirable in their use of cloaks. Cloaking devices are supposed to make you undetectable by any means whatsoever. You arenÆt supposed to be able to fit a module or train a skill to detected cloaked ships. They are cloaked.
If a player cloaks when someone appears in local then that is up to him. He doesnÆt have to fight at all. This is eve online he can do whatever he wants to.
Originally by: Fish Mittens
I think that a large part of the eve 0.0 based community agrees that it should not be impossible to stop this kind of activity. It should be possible with some specialised equipment and some effort, to hunt down these players who sit cloaked in ratting battleships in safe spots. If a player wants to rat in a system in relative safety, they should have to go to the effort of setting up a POS, It's way too easy for them at the moment.
Any player who rats never rats in safety there is always risk involved. I donÆt believe at all that cloaks should be nerfed. I believe that a large part of the 0.0 community agrees that cloaking devices are indeed working as they are intended. Pirates should not get THEIR way to risk free pirating.
I do have a remedy for this situation though. Remove local in 0.0 systems. If local chat were removed the cloaked ship would not be aware that you entered the system. If the pilot was within range he could use his scanner but thatÆs not as useful a tool to him as local chat.
www.eve-players.com |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:37:00 -
[12]
Edited by: ViolenTUK on 19/11/2007 05:37:49
Originally by: Illyrinia finally someone GETS IT
I "GETS IT" and disagree. I do however believe that "something" is broken but its not the cloaking device.
www.eve-players.com |
Clinically
Gallente Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Illyrinia Combating goons
Fixed the thread title for you
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.19 05:58:00 -
[14]
"dur, because I don't like it I says it is broken hur hur"
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ViolenTUK Any player who rats never rats in safety there is always risk involved. I donÆt believe at all that cloaks should be nerfed. I believe that a large part of the 0.0 community agrees that cloaking devices are indeed working as they are intended. Pirates should not get THEIR way to risk free pirating.
This has nothing todo with pirates, If you owned any space in eve you would understand the problem. I have never met any player in a 0.0 based alliance who thinks that cloaking macro ratters, present in the space that they have fought to take and hold is a good thing.
Also this is not about nerfing cloaks.. leave them as is.. Just put add a scanprobe that would allow Large cloaked ships to be scanned down in say 5 minutes (long enough not to effect combat cloakers but shorter than the logoff aggression timer)
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Illyrinia finally someone GETS IT
Actually we all get it.. But the problem is that nerfing it to catch supposed farmers/macroers nerfs it for all of us.. Want to catch them though? Use a force recon with a fat tank and tackle them then have your buddies from the next system over come and pop him.. Simple enough really.. You say that as soon as you come into local he warps to a ss and cloaks? Well if he didn't have the cloak he would just warp to the ss and log.. Either way your not going to get him..
Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: Illyrinia finally someone GETS IT
Actually we all get it.. But the problem is that nerfing it to catch supposed farmers/macroers nerfs it for all of us.. Want to catch them though? Use a force recon with a fat tank and tackle them then have your buddies from the next system over come and pop him.. Simple enough really.. You say that as soon as you come into local he warps to a ss and cloaks? Well if he didn't have the cloak he would just warp to the ss and log.. Either way your not going to get him..
Good point, any solution should not change the current pvp combat cloak behavior. Usually when you try to jump a cloaking ratter, they will not log off as they will have a 15 minute agreesion timer from being shot at by rats. They will cloak as a SS as long as you are in system.. and if this is for longer then 15 minutes they will then log off.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Fish Mittens Edited by: Fish Mittens on 19/11/2007 06:17:17
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: Illyrinia finally someone GETS IT
Actually we all get it.. But the problem is that nerfing it to catch supposed farmers/macroers nerfs it for all of us.. Want to catch them though? Use a force recon with a fat tank and tackle them then have your buddies from the next system over come and pop him.. Simple enough really.. You say that as soon as you come into local he warps to a ss and cloaks? Well if he didn't have the cloak he would just warp to the ss and log.. Either way your not going to get him..
Good point, any solution should not change the current pvp combat cloak behavior. Usually when you try to jump a cloaking ratter, they will not log off as they will have a 15 minute aggression timer from being shot at by rats. They will cloak as a SS as long as you are in system.. and if this is for longer then 15 minutes they will then log off.
If they logged off immediately as you enter system with an aggression timer, cloak or not, they will remain on grid for 15 mins, which is more than enough for any good prober to scan them down.
Hmmm.. Didn't realize that NPC aggro kept you in the game for the 15 miniutes after logging.. In that case you might have a chance to probe him out if he wasn't cloaked but I'd bet that they would simply have multiple ss and warp to each over and over until the timer winds down and then log.. Still no joy on the kill even with a nerfed cloak..
Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:25:00 -
[19]
Remove local as a recon tool.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:28:00 -
[20]
Now *that* would work..
Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:34:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Fish Mittens on 19/11/2007 06:34:11
Quote: Hmmm.. Didn't realize that NPC aggro kept you in the game for the 15 miniutes after logging.. In that case you might have a chance to probe him out if he wasn't cloaked but I'd bet that they would simply have multiple ss and warp to each over and over until the timer winds down and then log.. Still no joy on the kill even with a nerfed cloak..
I may be wrong.. I don't NPC enough to know for sure, but you definitely get a 15 min timer from any player aggression.. When I've hunted isk farmers before, the usual behavior is for them to stay cloaked at a safe for a while, then if you are still in system after a while they log off, and use a noob corp / trial account alt to check if the coast is clear to log back on.
If they are not cloaked, it's at least possible to catch them if they are moving from safe to safe, as they will be flying a slow BS.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Fish Mittens This has nothing todo with pirates, If you owned any space in eve you would understand the problem. I have never met any player in a 0.0 based alliance who thinks that cloaking macro ratters, present in the space that they have fought to take and hold is a good thing.
This does have somthing to do with pirates. Whilst you may not be a pirate pirates would gain risk free pirating by this method.
Originally by: Fish Mittens
Also this is not about nerfing cloaks.. leave them as is.. Just put add a scanprobe that would allow Large cloaked ships to be scanned down in say 5 minutes (long enough not to effect combat cloakers but shorter than the logoff aggression timer)
This nerfs cloaking. Cloaking devices should not be detected by any means at all.
www.eve-players.com |
Dr SamCarter
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Posted - 2007.11.19 07:24:00 -
[23]
Whats macro ratting?
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 08:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ViolenTUK This does have somthing to do with pirates. Whilst you may not be a pirate pirates would gain risk free pirating by this method.
Please explain how this will give risk free pirating?
[url=http://66.11.226.108/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=40382] [/url] |
Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.11.19 08:49:00 -
[25]
I just want non covert ops cloaking ships to be probable, that would solve a great many problems I think
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.19 08:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shardrael I just want non covert ops cloaking ships to be probable, that would solve a great many problems I think
/signed.. this is a simple solution.. [url=http://66.11.226.108/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=40382] [/url] |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.19 08:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: fire 59 on 19/11/2007 09:00:20 Cloaks and the people who abuse them in there present form have got to change. Noob ships, frigs, cruiser, bs, capital ships . All have cloaks on with no counter. Bla bla bla lockspeed. Wow, what a counter. Farmers infesting all the spacelanes who insta warp to ss and cloak.
I think it's time to make them *****ble on cloak specced ships only, it's getting ridiculous with the nano gangs who fit cloaks for safe pvp these days
Edit - f.i.t.t.a is censored? oo er
Winners make plans, losers make excuses.... |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.19 09:19:00 -
[28]
If the cloaking ISK farmer is sitting cloaked in his safe spot then he is not farming, therefore he is not making money. And if he wants to make money he will have to move to a system where the owning alliance does not patrol its space so well.
That is how you beat ISK farmers. I know it does not give you the warm glowing feel of a kill mail. But nowhere does it say that being the peon of an alliance has to be fun.
Nerfing cloaks would screw up my type of PvP, which is hit and run or baiting a belt. Now that scanning can be done by anybody the only way to hide the heavy hitters is by cloaking. (Or logging off, but I hate that more).
So, in conclusion, just because some 0.0 alliances can't patrol their space effectively is no reason to screw over small scale, hit and run type PvP.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.19 09:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Banana Torres If the cloaking ISK farmer is sitting cloaked in his safe spot then he is not farming, therefore he is not making money. And if he wants to make money he will have to move to a system where the owning alliance does not patrol its space so well.
That is how you beat ISK farmers. I know it does not give you the warm glowing feel of a kill mail. But nowhere does it say that being the peon of an alliance has to be fun.
Nerfing cloaks would screw up my type of PvP, which is hit and run or baiting a belt. Now that scanning can be done by anybody the only way to hide the heavy hitters is by cloaking. (Or logging off, but I hate that more).
So, in conclusion, just because some 0.0 alliances can't patrol their space effectively is no reason to screw over small scale, hit and run type PvP.
Essentially you want safe pvp for yourself. No amount of patrolling from an alliance is going to uncloak a cloaker. They will just go afk and come back when the people looking for them get bored, rinse repeat. There are people in eve believe it or not who can pvp without cloaks. They form these things called gangs ( not blobs) and use a scout and manage to harass and kill.
Your suggestion on people having to perma camp isk farmers is rather silly and shows a lack of forthought. They normally have more than 1 acc per person so they can afk cloak whilst farming on another acc and thus dodging your beloved fix to the problem.
Fix it at the source
Winners make plans, losers make excuses.... |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.19 09:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: fire 59 Fix it at the source
Yep, get rid of the ineffective alliances.
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