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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2007.11.19 16:48:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild All, or at least most, of these threads on the forums right now about cloaks are beacause of Goonswarm's Black Ops squadron and Pandemic Legion operations in BoB space.
Stop trying to cover it up by talking about ratters. With local working as a recon tool they are perfectly safe with or without cloaks.
hah. deflate your own ego for a second. the debate on this subject has been going on much, much longer than that. the points raised are valid regardless of the alliance ticket they're attached to. Someone cloaked in space is invulnerable and still poses a credible threat. The only time that should be doable in eve is in a POS, and that's only because the POS is shootable.
Introduce T2 probes with a chance of finding cloakers and diminishing chances with cloak quality and ship size, so cov ops frigs are near impossible to find. Anyone at their keyboard can easily avoid being probed, so it only hits afk cloakers and those fitting t1 cloaks to big ships.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2007.11.19 16:52:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn hah. deflate your own ego for a second. the debate on this subject has been going on much, much longer than that.
It comes up whenever some alliance or other is being harassed and are too soft-skinned to take it. Last time it was coming up frequently was in the late spring this year, and it was mainly Freege complaining that time.
At least they posted with their mains though...
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Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.11.19 16:52:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Blutreiter on 19/11/2007 16:52:29
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Blutreiter
To everyone who would like to remove local:
CCP tried it once.
Like, omg really, they did.
And it failed miserably.
Nuff said, if you don't believe me, look it up on the forums.
They didn't. It was a bug right after a patch, and it was fixed very quickly.
I don't mean what happened in march this year. They tried it some years ago.
But go on ranting if you want.
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
True rage
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Posted - 2007.11.19 16:57:00 -
[94]
Stop nerfing cloaking !
If you just want to make your law, take your weapon. CCP can add a T2 doomsday device which damage Everything in current solar system.
Everything means everything, including friend, foes, POS, Stations (not enough to destroy POS, but enough to having a big standing penalty with stations)
Control your space : burn it !
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:01:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Blutreiter
Originally by: Reem Fairchild All, or at least most, of these threads on the forums right now about cloaks are beacause of Goonswarm's Black Ops squadron and Pandemic Legion operations in BoB space.
Stop trying to cover it up by talking about ratters. With local working as a recon tool they are perfectly safe with or without cloaks.
To everyone who would like to remove local:
CCP tried it once.
Like, omg really, they did.
And it failed miserably.
Nuff said, if you don't believe me, look it up on the forums.
no they didnt, it was a mistke and the server accidently started with no one showing in local.
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Blutreiter
Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:03:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
no they didnt, it was a mistke and the server accidently started with no one showing in local.
As i said, it's not about what happened this year. The issue is much older.
I remember a dev stating that PvP came to nearly a complete stop. Entire fleets were missing each other in the same system.
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:15:00 -
[97]
Edited by: fire 59 on 19/11/2007 17:16:32
Originally by: fell1234
Originally by: fire 59 You know, there was a time before cloaks became so prolific that people were able to npc and watch local to avoid getting pounced on. Rotating safe spots and/or using a pos etc. It's what i do on my npc alt, who doesn't use a cloak and i have never, ever been caught, so what's stopping others. The effort of staying alive?
I think it boils down to laziness and the slant the game has taken as of late. People don't seem to want to work for it and want pvp/pve immunity without having to learn to survive or think on there feet.
Just cookie cutters and cloaks
Ummmm so before cloaks someone could npc and be 100% safe and after cloaks they can npc and be 100% safe. What exactly are you crying about again?
Although i do enjoy the occasional flamewar, i can see that you are abit slow so i will leave it this time. 0.0 is never ever meant to be 100% safe and that's the whole point. If you bounced ss and burst your ab etc to align quicker and rotated and recycled your ss, you will be fine as long as your alert. Hence, working for it like i mentioned instead of utterly safe cloak and then, um, well that's it. Don't have to work or use your brain.
Cloaks in tere current incarnation are just stupid because everyone and there dog, from frigate to supercapital is abusing them. As i said once before, the moment i thought that it had gone to far was when i saw a cloaking ibis. Just plain wrong.
Learn to survive and banish cloaks to cloak specced ships, or make them probeable on non cloak specced ships and reduce there speed to zero whilst cloaked.
Give us a tool to do the job
Edit - lol at the guy who said these threads are because of goons and sniggs. Snigg stays in g-tt except from 1-6 or whatever am uk time except the occasional roam and ra and goons have been doin the cloaker thing for ages with absolutely zero impact. Travel in packs and they can't pick you off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo |
Steel Tigeress
Gallente Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:31:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
They didn't. It was a bug right after a patch, and it was fixed very quickly.
And why do you think it was fixed so quickly? There are still some bugs in the game from years ago...yet this one was fixed so fast it made their heads spin.
Point stands: No local was tried, even if unintentional, it failed horribly, move on. It wont happen.
And all cloakers always say "Well 0.0 shouldnt be safe for ratters"... I counter with it shouldnt be safe for cloakers either, somthing needs done.
Currently the mojority of all cloaks in game are used as a pause button. It needs changed so that if you are activly playing, any change would have little to no effect on cloaking...but AFKing should not be a safe option.
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:53:00 -
[99]
Well your all **** out of luck because CCP just designed cloaking BSs with jump drives
Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.19 18:00:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Paulo Damarr Well your all **** out of luck because CCP just designed cloaking BSs with jump drives
It's like this entire whine is a joke and this is the punchline. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
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Shakalakahiki
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Posted - 2007.11.19 18:27:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Shakalakahiki on 19/11/2007 18:27:38 Load up some frigates with smart bombs and bomb the astroid fields until you catch something.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:27:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Fish Mittens whine
So find a way to beat them at it, afk cloak an alt in the same sytem....or logon trap them....or come whine about it on the forums. -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: fire 59 Edit - lol at the guy who said these threads are because of goons and sniggs. Snigg stays in g-tt except from 1-6 or whatever am uk time except the occasional roam and ra and goons have been doin the cloaker thing for ages with absolutely zero impact. Travel in packs and they can't pick you off
There's a pile of your dead former allies that would disagree.
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:36:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Dramaticus There's a pile of your dead former allies that would disagree.
Let's be fair. A stiff breeze could have knocked over rise, exe rmf and co.
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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:11:00 -
[105]
this post comes after about 8 hours of trying to get a isk farmer with a npc scout (who we podded twice o_0) to make a mistake, we bubbled the only gate out, and camped it, then tried log on traps, he would uncloak go about his buisness with his ALT cloaked in the next system (ratting in a system with one gate), and when we showed up, he'd ss and cloak. its ********... just like 90% of the people who think cloaks are fine. and the comment about the cloaking bs they are BUILT FOR CLOAKS, so they SHOULD have cloaks, its all part of that training time=pay out thing that eve has. takes 2 weeks and you can have a cloaking raven capable of ratting in 0.0...
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:21:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Illyrinia BUILT FOR CLOAKS, so they SHOULD have cloaks
SHOUTING does not effectively increase the validity of what you are trying to say try italics instead as provides a much better emphasis on what your trying to peddle.
And why do people keep claiming that because a ship does not have bonuses for cloaks its not designed to use them even though it meets the fitting requirements and has a slot for it.
On this logic no ship without warp scramble bonuses should be able to fit one because they are NOT BUILT FOR THEM (lol) and this carries on to other modules such as the minmatar recons and webs and Nos and neuts and a whole raft of other modules.
When the devs create a module that's only designed to fit a certain ship they give the module ridiculous fitting requirements and give the relevant ship a 99% reduction bonus, so until you can show some proof of how cloaks are not designed to fit certain ships that's not based on the fact some ships have bonuses to cloaks or designed to use a special cloak stfu and stop calling for nerfs.
Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
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Khald
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:23:00 -
[107]
To make it fair I should be able to set the guns to manual and just blast away. If you cloak 10km from me I still got a shot at you.
I understand why at long range there is no way to track you. But up close I should be able to either detect the energy you are using to hide yourself, the big gaping whole from all the energy you are absorbing, or the distortion of energy going around you.
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ultra violete
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:26:00 -
[108]
Yes yes, i know this isn't my main but i digress.
Just for ****s and giggles.
What about putting a warp variance thingie or something that makes ships with cloaks, not those its built for i.e. cov ops, recons. Makes said ship go into warp much slower. Kind of a negative effect the cloak field has on the warp system. Just a thought. Just my two cents.
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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:29:00 -
[109]
wont work, it still doesnt defeat the cloaked npc 1 system over scouting, when we enter that system, we gotta warp, jump, scan, warp to...
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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:31:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
Originally by: Illyrinia BUILT FOR CLOAKS, so they SHOULD have cloaks
SHOUTING does not effectively increase the validity of what you are trying to say try italics instead as provides a much better emphasis on what your trying to peddle.
And why do people keep claiming that because a ship does not have bonuses for cloaks its not designed to use them even though it meets the fitting requirements and has a slot for it.
On this logic no ship without warp scramble bonuses should be able to fit one because they are NOT BUILT FOR THEM (lol) and this carries on to other modules such as the minmatar recons and webs and Nos and neuts and a whole raft of other modules.
When the devs create a module that's only designed to fit a certain ship they give the module ridiculous fitting requirements and give the relevant ship a 99% reduction bonus, so until you can show some proof of how cloaks are not designed to fit certain ships that's not based on the fact some ships have bonuses to cloaks or designed to use a special cloak stfu and stop calling for nerfs.
apocs and nightmares used to beable to fit citadel launchers, these were removed. so theres a hole in 'your' logic right there... they fit, pilot had skills to use em, why cant we still use them HMMMMMM <---yes caps
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:33:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: fire 59 Edit - lol at the guy who said these threads are because of goons and sniggs. Snigg stays in g-tt except from 1-6 or whatever am uk time except the occasional roam and ra and goons have been doin the cloaker thing for ages with absolutely zero impact. Travel in packs and they can't pick you off
There's a pile of your dead former allies that would disagree.
I can only comment on what i know first hand from travelling through delve and our intel channels and alliance chat and i'm sorry to dissapoint but, it's had little impact. Delve has been riddled with baddies for quite awhile and it really is nothing new.
Hell, even the farmers in the pipe from 1-s to 5-6 form packs of ravens and try to gank people . Lost an astarte to 4 of them although i took one with me \o/. Travel with scout or in small gang and there is 0 problem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo |
Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:47:00 -
[112]
Originally by: True rage Stop nerfing cloaking !
If you just want to make your law, take your weapon. CCP can add a T2 doomsday device which damage Everything in current solar system.
Everything means everything, including friend, foes, POS, Stations (not enough to destroy POS, but enough to having a big standing penalty with stations)
Control your space : burn it !
huh?
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.11.19 20:57:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Illyrinia apocs and nightmares used to beable to fit citadel launchers, these were removed. so theres a hole in 'your' logic right there... they fit, pilot had skills to use em, why cant we still use them HMMMMMM <---yes caps
While there are certainly holes my logic at least that logic has a valid supporting argument where as your "not designed" logic has none other than "it is because I say it is"
But can you answer a question for me? why do all the anti cloaking posts all fall back on the "Evil cloaking ISK farming ravens" as the basis or rather excuse as to why cloaks should be nerfed?
There is every chance I'm wrong but it seems to me that either its a small group of people who constantly re hash the same argument with alt posts or that its an attempt by anti cloak posters to give a moral grounds for their argument, ie "nerf cloaks and stop ISK farmers" when the real reason is they are either frustrated at not being able to gank something or they are suffering under this "black ops" tactic and not being able to rat or mine.
Black ops is an awesome tactic imo btw as it brings a new denial or resources and guerrilla warfare instead of just blobs and gate camps.
Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
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Illyrinia
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Posted - 2007.11.19 21:02:00 -
[114]
i took the time to train for cov ops, recon, and soon black ops, so i can use cloaking and tactics that come with that. why should a 2 week old beable to use a cloak to be unfindable, and not have any way to counter this. and- i didnt say dont put the cloaks on a ship. your adding words to my post. ADD the cycle time, and the failure clause to it, still beable to use the cloak on your raven. but have to set there and if the cloak fails, warp to another ss and recloak. instead of 'oh look those guys out to kill me to steal my loot (HAHAHAHA) and pod me are back, better cloak!' and go afk or on an alt for hours on end... all my idea does, is give cloaks the chance to fail JUST LIKE ECM <---yes caps again! this goes for titans, moms, carriers as well. i have a friend that rats in his alliance space and when the hostiles come in he ss's and cloaks his carrier... a cloak shouldnt be infinate use....
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Cybarite
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.11.19 23:32:00 -
[115]
My solution would have several approaches, first make cloaks less effective over time, one would think it would just take a higher resolution scan to spot the distortion that a cloak on anything that isn't a perfect sphere (look at the geometry of waveforms, you'll get it) would create if it was cloaked. Second add tech II probes that have a chance of catching a cloaker, with diminishing returns on smaller ships, seeing as the field they would be generating is much smaller and thus takes even more effort to spot. Finally add a starbase structure that can ping a wide area (2-3 AU) that doesn't require sov, that way if your operating with any force in an area you can work to clear cloakers out of it, and spreading poses through a system would allow you to control it more effectively.
IMO the problem with cloakers isn't farmers, it's *******s who SS cloak and than either AFK or ****talk in local/constellation, they disturb operations in ways they shouldn't be able to while remaining totally invulnerable, I don't mind cloaking at all in combat or as a means of buying time but as it stands its basically cheatmode that doesn't allow you to attack, and thats about as broken as it gets. ... Why do I PvP? Because I love the feeling I get when I see the pretty lights and know that someone somewhere is screaming incoherently at their computer screen. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.19 23:56:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Illyrinia this post comes after about 8 hours of trying to get a isk farmer with a npc scout (who we podded twice o_0) to make a mistake, we bubbled the only gate out, and camped it, then tried log on traps, he would uncloak go about his buisness with his ALT cloaked in the next system (ratting in a system with one gate), and when we showed up, he'd ss and cloak. its ********... just like 90% of the people who think cloaks are fine. and the comment about the cloaking bs they are BUILT FOR CLOAKS, so they SHOULD have cloaks, its all part of that training time=pay out thing that eve has. takes 2 weeks and you can have a cloaking raven capable of ratting in 0.0...
This is a great example of why it is crap that people can hide so well just by fitting a cloak. My favorite bit is where he didn't just fit a cloak, but also used an alt scout. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.20 00:02:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Cybarite IMO the problem with cloakers isn't farmers, it's *******s who SS cloak and than either AFK or ****talk in local/constellation, they disturb operations in ways they shouldn't be able to while remaining totally invulnerable, I don't mind cloaking at all in combat or as a means of buying time but as it stands its basically cheat mode that doesn't allow you to attack, and thats about as broken as it gets.
What you are doing here is saying that local chat is broken not cloaks. Cloaked ships arenĘt invulnerable at all they are simply cloaked and completely ineffectual to you by any physical means. if they disturb you in local and use local for Intel then this points at local could be the problem not cloaks.
Cloaking devices are far from being cheats and are a legitimate module that can and should be used for intelligence or any other means that a cloaked pilot sees fit. You should not be able to detect a cloaked ship thatĘs the whole point. cloaking devices work just fine.
I am sympathetic to alliance that hold a higher level of sovereignty being able to install an array at 1 player owned station that could be used with a great deal of perseverance to deter cloaking devices. Rather than making them strictly probable which would nerf cloaks an array could be used to area effect and disrupt cloaked ships long enough for an afk cloaker to be uncloaked thatĘs all the help an advanced alliance would need.
www.eve-players.com |
doomstris
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Posted - 2007.11.20 00:18:00 -
[118]
people need to start to deal with the game and quit wining about how things should be changed.clocking for covert ops is just that and clocking has a purpose.
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ROMOAS
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Posted - 2007.11.20 00:37:00 -
[119]
clocking has never bothered me even from the beginning of the game and it was nice to have in order for me to go in to 0.0 space as a noob and look around to see what's there. as far as I am concerned to delete the clocking will do nothing more than help the lower sec systems be held by alliances and give them the edge on keeping them and after all the idea of the game is to have conflicts and the gathering of Intel will be nerfed. after all it is just a game but in war and you being a sniper and was told you had to stand out in the open in plan sight would you do it ? i think not.
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Joe Orton
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Posted - 2007.11.20 00:55:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Illyrinia Edited by: Illyrinia on 19/11/2007 20:14:46 im not sure where to put this so ill put it here-
Im a recon pilot, sb pilot, cov ops pilot. but these ships are built for cloaks. what ****es me off are these battleships and such that cloak off in a safespot when they run from you.
heres my suggestion- give cloaks a 'failure to cycle' clause, so that a cloak on a ship that wasnt built to cloak has the chance to be uncloaked.
to give the recons, sb, and cov ops (and soon black ops) a clause- a 25% per level chance of not uncloaking each time the cloak cycles. t1 cloak would have a 10 minute cycle time and t2 a 30 minute, cov ops cloak same. this would require the 'hard core' cov ops and recon pilots to train up to lvl 4. that would give a 100% chance of never having a cloak cycle fail. where do i put this for devs to see?
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