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Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 06:41:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Andrew Olaffsen on 20/11/2007 06:48:32 Hear me out now before flamage ensues. I was watching various sci-fi flicks and i thought about something...why cant large ships BC or BS and up have gun crews or automatic gun pods. Yeah yeah i know the modules and blah blah blah and drones...Its a huge BS for jimminy. Why not make it a module of its own. add it to skills to. i.e. high slot gun mode would be adding 4 small autocannons to BS skills would include how to use gun crew/pods effectivly... on a maelstrom instead of haveing one more 1400mm youd have the equivalent of 4 200mm or something. Im sure a penalty would go along with it such as reduced structure or armor since it would mean there more "windows" in your ship. there could be rigs for it as well such as comfier chairs for gun crews or the nifter headgear thing luke and solo wear in star wars. sometihng along those lines anyway.
let the grumbling and flamage unsue!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Astal Atlar
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:00:00 -
[2]
you mistaken the area to post this tread mate try eve library and this topic : http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=615004 Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Von Lark
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:02:00 -
[3]
Naw, I like this idea, but not for the crews. I've been thinking about something like a gun battery where one could put multiple small guns in one slot. This would be like to double barrel ones that we have already but with more options.
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Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:07:00 -
[4]
sorry
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Willerslev
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:17:00 -
[5]
i think the idea is great. it whould make it more real haveing a BS such as the maelstrom. if it have its 7 1400mm artillery guns and a gun battery with lets say 4 x 180mm autocannons. insted of haveing to use 1 high slot for one small gun.
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Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Andrew Olaffsen sorry
You're obviously "the new guy".
Where gun batteries would make sense in the same way they work on real warships, it would unbalance the game in favour of flying battleships over cruisers and frigates. The point of a battleship in eve is to have a large slow heavy warship that specialises in hitting things as big as, and bigger than itself.
Battleships can already kill cruisers quite well with their heavy guns anyway, and they can even hit frigates if you know how to use them properly. Extra small gun batteries would be nice to have, but they'd make battleships too powerful. I think drones are a good alternative you should use.
-- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:35:00 -
[7]
Yes but in terms of the roles the ships are supposed to play in the game...just look at the whole carrier situation. It seems everybody tries to make everything from frigs to caps into solo gankers anyway. I mean the destroyer is pretty much useless. In terms of overpowering a ship versus balance...youd be giving up a big gun for some small ones but i dee what you are saying and have a good point too.
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PVT Necromancist
Minmatar Full Metal Seraphim
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:47:00 -
[8]
Nice idea, i've been thinking along the same lines lately. And @ Frayn, maybe CCP could restrict gun battery usage to 1 or 2 per ship, and allow only close-range weaponry (ac's, blasters, etc). That would be very useful in mishs to deal with close orbiting frigs if you have none/bad drone skills, and it might have its place in pvp too. And let's not forget that you'd still be giving up high slots, which means one less big gun to deal with the big targets.
Or maybe the batteries could have a statistic like Calibration - the more powerful the gun, the more space it'll take in the battery (example: you would only be able to fit 2x 200m scouts, but 4 125mm carbines), you shouldn't be able to fit more than 4 small/3 medium per battery though. Just a coupla ideas to help with balancing. ---------------------------------------- Mandatory crazy forum guy. Joy! |
Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 07:52:00 -
[9]
I mean it IS a big honking BS after all...But then again i can imagine some jacktard fitting something like 56 small autocannons on one to be cute. I wonder if the idea holds well with missles and rockets to...instead of a big sieger...2 heavies or 4 standards
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PVT Necromancist
Minmatar Full Metal Seraphim
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Posted - 2007.11.20 08:08:00 -
[10]
More like 2 heavies, 3 standars and 4 rockets. ---------------------------------------- Mandatory crazy forum guy. Joy! |
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Rick Will
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Posted - 2007.11.20 09:59:00 -
[11]
I like the idea but I think if it were to happen then it should get a reduction in damage i.e. if fitting 2 mediums in a large turret slot then -15% damage mod for each turret no? I just wouldn't want loads of 3/4 month old characters running round in BS's fitting them with tech II mediums, should be encouraged to learn large turrets. Look great effects wise
Maybe i'm just being silly tho |
arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.20 10:37:00 -
[12]
I would be glad to trade each siegelauncher for 2x cruiselauncher * ** *** ♣♣♣Phear my sig!♣♣♣ Nice hamster! - Mindstar Sorry, that hamster ate your sig - Cortes |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.11.20 10:49:00 -
[13]
Yes, because a Hyperion with 32 bonused small Neutron blasters would be overpowering in no shape or form
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.20 11:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Yes, because a Hyperion with 32 bonused small Neutron blasters would be overpowering in no shape or form
This is the hearth of the problem indeed, the guns don't scale well...
Smaller guns don't deal micro damage, they deal quite acceptable damage, and alot of them deal alot of damage. It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Other Minion
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 12:14:00 -
[15]
A module that pretty much gives a BS or BC a cluster of frigate guns... right... to allow it to have a chance of fending off drones and frigs. GunCrews is misleading name. How about Point Defense System. I like the idea of installing a point defense system to fend off the annoying ceptors.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.11.20 13:10:00 -
[16]
Problem is that batteries of small guns would give overpowering DPS, and we already have some battleship anti-small-ship solutions.
#1: Drones. All battleships can at least fit a wing of mediums and lights. #2: Smartbombs. Bit limited, but it will give some frigates the time of their life until they get out to 10km. #3: Heavy energy neuts. Not a frigate's friend. #4: Stasis web or two, absolute face melt. Also target painters. #5: Just because you fly a battleship does not mean you cannot fit small guns. Sure, it's a dumbass thing to do, but you can.
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.11.20 13:23:00 -
[17]
even if you'd restrict the damage of one such point defense systems to that of a large gun it would make you more or less immune to drones imo. maybe a hislot point defense vs missiles would be possible though (having a certain chance to destroy incoming missiles and would be stacking nerfed) now that the torpedo buff/nerf/change is gonna be implemented.
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Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 13:44:00 -
[18]
1) 1 med gun = 1.33 of small gun. Large gun = 1.33 of med gun. Therefore, 4 small guns > 2 med guns > 1 large gun, at least in terms of DPS. DPS balance will go crazy for close-range ships.
2) It will be "Welcome to Battleships Online" change. BSes will get extremely effective weapon of point-defence against small ships. EVE promotes specialization of ships and thus gang or fleet warfare, there's no SoloPWNMobiles, and even those that remotely resemble them get flamed all the time (nanoships, pre-nosnerf Dominix, etc.)
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Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:10:00 -
[19]
What if it was a rig slot? Say under the L slots youd have some battery slots. The size of ship dictating number of slots...call the micro slots for sake of argument. I think a good point was raise about the dps of the small turrets vs large. So what about micro turrets. Say you have 2 micro slots...then thats 2 micro batteries. A batteries would consits of 4 turrets or launchers. The DPS would only be equivalent to small turrets if you had "micro weapons level 5" and "point defence optimazation level 5" Optional batteries may be 4 flak type cannon cuns for anti firgates. Or what about those mini guns that they use for pint defence on carriers these days for anti missle defence. Maybe a battery consisting of 2 fletchette missle launchers firing those cool missle that fire like 20 at a time like in all those jap anime movies. It would deffinetly have a penalty and would still use up power. I think the biger drawback would be CPU since things like automated point defence systems need considerable AI as well as good traking and radar. I think you are right when you say there shouldnt be anyting that makes it a solo pwnmobile. (theres enough opf those already) But i do think this would ad even more depth to the game and strategy to loadout schemes. Nerf it of course but leave it at least decent to be able to take on ceptors on drones at least some. I really like the idea of having point defence guns like those mini guns you see on todays carriers.
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Mrski Okupator
Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mrski Okupator on 20/11/2007 16:20:33 And what would, pray tell, be the rank of the micro turet skil seeing as the small turet is rank 1.
And another idea. Mega Flakk cannons. They'd shoot smartbombs.
And why not reinstate the missile splash damage; one torpedo salve and the whole gang is gone!
edit: And I can totally envision minmatars ducktaping themselves on their ships with pitchforks to fend off the drones. Now that's a rig!
___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven.
What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez. |
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Mrski Okupator
Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Mrski Okupator on 20/11/2007 16:19:29 doublepostst ___ Apocalypse Mining. Mine your way to heaven.
What playing Amarr feels like. Shamelessly snatched from Almarez. |
Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.20 23:42:00 -
[22]
I was wondering when that would come out. I guess it would be better if we took everything away and just gave everybody a BS that flew just like a bigger slower frigate and some guns and some missles maybe. why do you need anything else anyway. Maybe we can use the fire all my guns at once hot key. For that matter why have anything other than "small gun I" or "big gun I"? I can totally see everybody in the game flying the same exact thing and just flying around in circles firing at anything and everything but of course nothing would die becasue the nerf monster would be there in person. Wait...that sounds alot like ...WoW
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Willerslev
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Posted - 2007.11.22 09:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Willerslev on 22/11/2007 09:39:26 how about that you can fit drones or a micro turret. so you have to pick one of them insted of haveing them both. imagen a maelstrom with 5 x drones, 8 x 1400mm and micro turrets.. that whould be overpowerd. so why not make it a "either you have drones or micro turrets" and make them work mostly like drones with "kill this" "stop" and "reload" commands. it whould make the idea more real.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.11.22 09:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Flurren on 22/11/2007 09:51:45 Edited by: Flurren on 22/11/2007 09:51:32
Originally by: Andrew Olaffsen I was wondering when that would come out. I guess it would be better if we took everything away and just gave everybody a BS that flew just like a bigger slower frigate and some guns and some missles maybe. why do you need anything else anyway. Maybe we can use the fire all my guns at once hot key. For that matter why have anything other than "small gun I" or "big gun I"? I can totally see everybody in the game flying the same exact thing and just flying around in circles firing at anything and everything but of course nothing would die becasue the nerf monster would be there in person. Wait...that sounds alot like ...WoW
For the reasons stated the OPs idea has some flaws but that post ^ was pure brain excremental rectum spewage.
Care to conform to anymore mmo stereotypes there?
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:02:00 -
[25]
Introduce it as a module that you can only fit in the utility highslots of a Marauder =
1) Mission runners happy 2) Builders happy 3) Pirates happy (more marauders in low sec) 4) Gank gangs happy(yes you have to use cruisers to tackle marauders now but just look at all those 1 bill ships waiting for youto blow them up! Like 1-2 carriers per 0.0 rattign system! Think of teh ransoms!)
There this thread has been won and solved. E-mail to Oveur pls :P
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Mortuus
Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:11:00 -
[26]
Don't forget that 1 Large gun does not do more DPS than 2 Medium guns. If you want some small guns, fit some small guns.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Andrew Olaffsen ...pure brain excremental rectum spewage...
Hey, did you know that post was pure brain excremental rectum spewage?
On a more serious note, giving any BS more anti-frig systems is just idiotic. You've got drones, webs, guns, neuts, everything. Now you need a automatic 'get rid of frig' button?
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Andrew Olaffsen
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:20:00 -
[28]
yeah this thread and idea has seen much love and more hate...just let it die...i have
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Willerslev
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:21:00 -
[29]
the idea itself is good but maybe ppl are not ready for it yet??
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:22:00 -
[30]
Question:
1. Do these guns have the tracking of smaller weapons aswell? (meaning there is nothing they cannot track) 2. Do these guns have the damageoutput of smaller weapons aswell? 4*200mm AC II dps 3. Do these guns have the rof of smaller weapons aswell? (200mm AC II rof * 4)
1. If BS sized ships can track all vessels with 8*4 = 32 small weapons, thats not good. 2. Will never happen, will remove all needs for larger weaponsbatteries. Cause you have same dps and track well. 3. CCP changed the rof bonus on inties with a flatout damagebonus to reduce lag, can you imagine that? They also introduced a maximum of 5 drones instead of 15 drones. Large weapons have lower rof than small, so they give less serverload. But instead of these low rof, you add 4 of the highest rof weapons. Serverload *10-12 than?
Its simply not a good idea from balance perspective and personally i rather fire a volkwagon every now and than for 2000 damage instead of "small" 200mm bullets . _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
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