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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Entity One
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Posted - 2007.11.20 14:34:00 -
[61]
No one cares about disabled gamers. It's not an issue of morals, its an issue of economics. Disabled gamers don't make up enough of the gamer population to justifying wasting development time solely to accommodate their needs. What next? "CCP doesn't think enough about mentally handicapped players. There are too many buttons and ******s can't process that much information." "CCP doesn't think enough about disabled war veterans. It's morally wrong to make it harder for our honored vets to play simply because they no longer have arms. This is socially irresponsible."
You want them to make these concessions? Send them a fat check to cover their development expenses and I'm sure they'd be happy to do it. Otherwise, insensitive as it may sound, it's your problem.
P.S. Dying in missions in a 200 million isk ship is embarrassing, and the warp scrambling marker is difficult to see even for people who DON'T suffer from colorblindness. I'm inclined to believe that your friend is losing ships because he doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and going "omfg no I'm very good its the colorblindness!"
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Asestorian
Domination. Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.20 14:35:00 -
[62]
Guys don't flame the OP, that's pretty stupid. It's a valid complaint even if the example he used wasn't the best.
However, I have known several people in this game with colour deficiencies, and they have done fine in PvP and otherwise. The only issues they have with the UI is the module activation effects (the green and red flashy bits on the UI), which even people with no colour deficiency problems can have a hard time with. The warp scrambler effect doesn't have an indicator at all, and it's near impossible to get close in and check it out. In PvE you can rely on knowledge of which NPCs scramble. In PvP, where most people have effects turned off, it's just a case of luck shooting the right person
Now, I don't know what exactly your friend suffers from here, but while I agree that CCP could do a little more here and there for people with such problems, I think you and he may be relying too much on the disability as an excuse.
That said, CCP have had a hard time making a UI that's nice and usable for non-disabled people, I wouldn't trust them to be able to make one that's any good for those who are disabled
---
MOZO
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.20 14:48:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama I have chronic RSI, but I don't expect CCP too remove the need to use a mouse to play the game. If I'm in pain, I break or change the way i'm playing to account for it. I don't whine about it.
Expect them to address it? Perhaps not. Ask them to address it? Entirely reasonable.
RSI is a common and recognised disability (as is colour blindness). I agree that no-one should force CCP to accomodate either group (because Eve is a luxury that isn't essential to life) but members of that group every right to ask CCP to help out.
IMO RSI is another area where CCP have fumbled the ball in their current UI. The computer mouse is one of the worst offenders when it comes to RSI and the Eve GUI is far to reliant on it, especially in its use of drag and drop.
Just because some people are willing to put up with things The Way They Are(TM) doesn't mean that everyone should. The one aspect of the carrier pilots arguments that I agree with is the right to complain. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: spambunker A friend of mine and I were looking for a new game in January, 2007, and decided to give eve a try. I was enjoying it enough to keep it up, but he had major issues with it: he is color deficient. ...
Sorry to hear, but tbh not only disabled people have issues with the EVE UI. It's lacking in usability in so many ways that I can't be bothered to even name a few.
In before the fanbois tell us that CCP are soo small and doing their best etc. yada yada...
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Kel Dario
Amarr Blue Sky Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:26:00 -
[65]
For those who flamed the op for helping his friend: you guys are a bunch of tards and need to grow a head between your shoulders.
Should be easy enough for ccp to code the game to help the players with color deficient problems. Guess no one at CCP have that problem and therefor they didn't think of it.
//Kel
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:29:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Adonis 4174 on 20/11/2007 15:32:34 Are scrams still the same colour as webs? I know I always couldn't see their effects through the deep blue cloud that a web puts around you.
Are they finally putting status icons into Trinity?
Edit: Anyone who reads the stickies in Features & Ideas Discussion will know CCP has known of this issue for around 18 months and have made improvements, most notably to the shapes of icons such as skill requirements which used to be identical except for being red if you didn't have it and green if you did. We still all need a status bar though. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur |
Ming TMerciless
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:44:00 -
[67]
Obviously advances in the gaming industry since pong have left your friend at a serious disadvantage. I feel his pain :( On a side note; my grandfather (who is dead) is unable to play eve due to the lack of interface between tranquility and the afterlife. CCP should be ashamed.
MING T Merciless.
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Corwain
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:52:00 -
[68]
I have great vision, and I can't see the warp scram effect unless I'm zoomed in very closely on it, and you need to know where it is to do this. I PvP all the time and I could play the game in black and white. You do know in large scale PvP all effects are turned off and the view is zoomed out to max range to minimize lag and the player operates entirely on the info his overview and scanner gives him, right? --
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:54:00 -
[69]
All CCP needs to do is add a useable event log that works like a chat window. The current log doesn't contain most of the interesting info, cannot be filtered and is horribly broken even for the limited stuff it actually does (open it in the middle of a fight, you will see half the log sorted from earliest to latest and the other half in the opposite direction - bug reported multiple times, the guys who read the report didn't understand it despite the screenshots).
It would take an average programmer about a day to implement proper event logging into a chat-like window I guess (since the events are already logged *somewhere*).
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Val Vympel
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:55:00 -
[70]
To the OP.
My sympathies for your disability. I sincerly hope that you can adapt to the EVE environment and continue to enjoy the game.
CCP,however is under no obligation to accomadate you. Accusing CCP of callousness and worse is not just on your part.I recommend that you contact CCP and discover what options are available to you.
I am also disabled,I am HOH(Hard of Hearing)90% deaf and my speech is also severly degraded as a result.
I have lost allot of ships due to my condition. I try to adapt and move on.
It goes without saying that I can't use TS/Vent. Imagine for a moment if I were to post a thread on these forums that went something like this.
HOH Player-DEMANDS action.
CCP,I am HOH unable to use TS/Vent. I demand that any and all player corporations with a TS/Vent/Microphone requirement be FORCED to hire me and or suffer desolvement and perma-ban. These "heartless monsters" don't care at all how hurt I am when I read their entrance requirements. Wait,better yet I want you(CCP)to ban the use of TS/Vent servers and then all will be even and fair...Absurd Huh?
Improvise,Adapt,Overcome and have fun.
If you are a troll,please in the future stay under your bridge because threads like this don't really help the disabled of any stripe.
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Savant Hayt
Minmatar The Reich
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:59:00 -
[71]
I demand a Braille version of eve for all the blind players!
This is discrimination!
/sarcasm off
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:01:00 -
[72]
It's actually pretty damn easy to cater for players with colour-blindness, and other visual problems: Proper UI customisation options.
You don't have to go as far as WoW's complete LUA UI engine, but some level of customisation would be good. Custom icons for ships/items in space, custom tags for the various states in the overview settings, a proper colour picker instead of "hay guys you can choose between these limited colours!".
Not to mention a plethora of UI options that could be added: - no portraits AT ALL in channel lists (just a compacted list, with the overview colourtag instead of the portrait) - removal of that lighting/shadowing effect that changes as you pan your camera around - scaling/positioning of the ship sunflower/modules UI - proper handling of where new windows appear etc. |
Samiael
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:07:00 -
[73]
Gimme a fu--ing break. The world will never be perfect for you and your friend.. you expect CCP to devote resources to an extreme minority of color blind players??
Your disabled (and mildly I might add.. oh the suffering of color blindness!!).. you cant realistically expect every business owner to cater to your problem.
There is nothing stopping you from writing a simple script in autoit.. or a short VB add on that will enlighten you when the dynamics change.
Both of those languages are failry easy to learn.. you could whip something out in a day or two after a 2 week tutorial..
which would be much better than pulling CCP resources off things that will benefit all of us to cater to your horrible disability
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:14:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:16:16 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:15:33 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:15:12
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Some of you people are *******s. Seriously. Is kicking down folks with disabilities cool now?
"Help me out in Eve, and I'll give you a kickback in Wow". Bah thats not selling, its friends helping each other out. Quit being bloody lynch mob loonies.
It has NOTHING to do with a disability.
You people thinking "oh their flaming a person with a disability" is the problem with how people treat people with disabilities.
Let's handle them with fluffy kitten toys and smiles and they'll be better. Yeah. Right.
Ask most persons with disabilities and they say "Treat me like normal people", and normal people get flamed for selling ISK in another currency, be it in ANY form. Or is it suddenly a "well you can treat him normal here, but not there" situation? didn't think so.
Sure, they COULD fix this problem, but it's not their responsibility to do so, nor is it their responsibility that the game isn't perfect for all disabilities. THAT is the issue you're saying, and it isn't valid nor even in the "nice suggestion" area.
Using a disability as a leverage, that, would be despicable.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:26:00 -
[75]
dont feel bad during major fleet battles i dont see a goddamn thing either
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:36:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:37:26 Just to clarify how the request is a bit "off", here's an example that's in the same ballpark:
Dear CCP, i recently gave my brother a gametime card for WOW and he gave me some ISKIES ingame. Now my problem involves my disability. You see, i'm a diabetic and i need to eat at certain intervals, as well as take medicine. Well, to do this, i have to quit the game or dock(which isn't always an option) so i don't lose a ship in those long fleet ops. This has lead so that i can't attend them, because i might have to leave at any time and it's a lost aspect of the game now for me. Also i can't mine effectively 'cause i can't leave my ship in lowsec unguarded.
Could you please do something about this? How about a pause button for medical issues like this? Or an invurnerability type of thing?
Thank you.
See what i mean?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:44:00 -
[77]
I have Conjoined Twin Myslexia.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Noodle Pastaman
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Posted - 2007.11.20 16:59:00 -
[78]
I suspect this just shows a very different outlook between Europeans and Americans.
All British (and I assume European) businesses are required to take 'reasonable' action to support handicapped people. For example a graphics design company would not be required to support a totally blind person, but if they employed a secretary with limited vision needs to do some word processing it would be expected for a company to obtain an office product that had magnifying abilities even if that cost more than a product that didnt.
Now it would be an interesting test to see how that applied to computer games, I suspect it wouldn't be unreasonable for their to be decent contrast control.
Being part of society is not a 'choice'
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:05:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:37:26 Just to clarify how the request is a bit "off", here's an example that's in the same ballpark:
Dear CCP, i recently gave my brother a gametime card for WOW and he gave me some ISKIES ingame. Now my problem involves my disability. You see, i'm a diabetic and i need to eat at certain intervals, as well as take medicine. Well, to do this, i have to quit the game or dock(which isn't always an option) so i don't lose a ship in those long fleet ops. This has lead so that i can't attend them, because i might have to leave at any time and it's a lost aspect of the game now for me. Also i can't mine effectively 'cause i can't leave my ship in lowsec unguarded.
Could you please do something about this? How about a pause button for medical issues like this? Or an invurnerability type of thing?
Thank you.
See what i mean?
So you're comparing a life-threatening condition that has nothing to do with UI useability with a non-life-threatening condition that is to do with UI useability?
That's a great strawman argument you've got there. Shame it's as watertight as the Titanic. |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:10:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I'm blind, deaf, dumb and I want CCP to fix Eve so I can play! I also don't have any fignerz oer tos so i tipng wif mai nozz.
On a similar note I hve a blind friend who atm is limited to giving blind simultaneous chess displays, but he likes ths sound of Eve. CCP, can you make Eve accessible to teh blind ones, too? Isk laundering 4t ignore
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:18:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:19:04
Originally by: Karina Bellac So you're comparing a life-threatening condition that has nothing to do with UI useability with a non-life-threatening condition that is to do with UI useability?
That's a great strawman argument you've got there. Shame it's as watertight as the Titanic.
First: Diabetes is nowhere near life-threatening.
Second: The example wasn't towards "your issue with UI is bad", but towards the request of changing a game to cater the needs of "few". If they cater to one need, they then should cater to all. And then we'd have a funny little game on our hands. You read the example in a wrong state of mind, as you should regard what i said earlier into it too.
THIRD: Titanic was VERY waterproof. It wasn't, however, iceberg proof.
As such, it's as "reasonable" and "legit" example. Especially the isk buying part.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Zolofine
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:20:00 -
[82]
I personally DO NOT check scramble effects... ever.
Why?
Because there's no time to sit around hunting for a scrabmle fx. If you play enough, you intuitively know which ship types are more likely to scramble you, and depending on the situation (ie being pwned or not) you may want to make these your primairy concern. There are also factors like distance which help cue you in on which ships may likely be scrambling you.
As far as PVE goes, it's even simpler in this case. Only specific NPC's scramble and you should make it a habit of killing those first as soon as they are within range. I have never done otherwise unless there was an extremely good reason for it.
The issues you mention, all have a simple solution which does not require your friend to be able to visually identify the warp scramble effect...
Is your friends condition a drawback while playing? I'm sure it is, in some way or form, but there are solutions, and those solutions are perfectly viable...
Why would you go through all this effort to allow your friend to make a visual ID of the scrambling ship, when some common sense and logic can accomplish the same, in a more efficient manner?
So with all due respect, i don't see your point...
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones THIRD: Titanic was VERY waterproof. It wasn't, however, iceberg proof.
Icebergs are made of water.
That nitpick aside, the issue here is affects being hard to spot, not by people with impaired vision but by everybody. My left eye is so perfect it's off the scale and I still can only think of one time I've spotted a warp scramble effect. Getting warp scrambled is something that happens to me a lot and I just don't waste time looking for it, I assume it will be one of the small ships and kill them all until I can warp. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:29:00 -
[84]
Yeah except this whole thread is pointless and probably a joke. So someone is colorblind to blue? Well guess what! There are people who are colorblind to every single color in the fecking rainbow and you can't accomodate them all, nor should we.
Whats next? Colorblind people who write movie directors and say "Please release your movie in these other colors so I can see the explosions too! I'm colorblind have pity!" - Screw that.
This game was not made for colorblind people, or for blind people, or deaf people, or even for mute people. It's REALLY awesome though when those people (the blind, deaf, mute etc) find their OWN way to actually enjoy this game, I have a HUGE amount of respect for those people.
But the whole "change the game to fit the disabled"..Yeah..whatever.
There are games out there made specifically for blind people where it's all based on sound and it works really great. So what..should I now come along and cry about that they're being apathetic towards non-blind people because they provide no actual graphic content??? You really are idiots.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:36:00 -
[85]
Ok, how about they hang a big neon sign over the ship with an arrow pointing down that reads.... "To whom it may concern: This is the ship that is currently warp scrambling you... this means that you may not warp unless it is turned off. Well, or unless you're stabbed out which is ok but you won't be able to lock anyone in under a minute... and there's another guy doing it too... he's got another sign over him repeating this message. Oh well, the message here is you're being scrambled and this is the guy doing it. If you are blind there will be a brail explanation if you have the right Wii-mote plugged in. Have a nice day"
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Weekly The Tick quote... "I can't lose my name! It's on all my stationary!!" ~The Tick |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:36:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:36:32 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:36:22
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Originally by: Sheriff Jones THIRD: Titanic was VERY waterproof. It wasn't, however, iceberg proof.
Icebergs are made of water.
That nitpick aside, the issue here is affects being hard to spot, not by people with impaired vision but by everybody. My left eye is so perfect it's off the scale and I still can only think of one time I've spotted a warp scramble effect. Getting warp scrambled is something that happens to me a lot and I just don't waste time looking for it, I assume it will be one of the small ships and kill them all until I can warp.
Nitpicking back into the equation: You can say a clock is waterproof, yet if it's demolished by a falling cube of ice, it's still valid it is WATERproof.
And back on the topic:
Yes, there's no argument that the warp scramble effect and such need revisiting/improvements, but this thread isn't about it. It's about the disability being a leverage to change something.
If the original post would've been: "Could we have a clearer warp scramble effect", people would've agreed. As such, it was a request to overhaul the graphics, or make them optionally more complex, to cater the needs of a person.
See the difference?
Also about how paying for ISK in ANY currency, virtual or not, is a nono.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Ok, how about they hang a big neon sign over the ship with an arrow pointing down that reads.... "To whom it may concern: This is the ship that is currently warp scrambling you... this means that you may not warp unless it is turned off. Well, or unless you're stabbed out which is ok but you won't be able to lock anyone in under a minute... and there's another guy doing it too... he's got another sign over him repeating this message. Oh well, the message here is you're being scrambled and this is the guy doing it. If you are blind there will be a brail explanation if you have the right Wii-mote plugged in. Have a nice day"
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at that mental image of the neon sign .
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Zolofine
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:52:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nitpicking back into the equation: You can say a clock is waterproof, yet if it's demolished by a falling cube of ice, it's still valid it is WATERproof.
Ice cubes do not demolish clocks afaik...
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:55:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:55:31
Originally by: Zolofine
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nitpicking back into the equation: You can say a clock is waterproof, yet if it's demolished by a falling cube of ice, it's still valid it is WATERproof.
Ice cubes do not demolish clocks afaik...
Condensated enough, heavy enough, and it'll wreack havoc on your swatch like a gymnastic prostitute on...well...lots!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Dextrius
Gallente ironwood ink
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Posted - 2007.11.20 18:01:00 -
[90]
Spambunker is likely an alt from Goonswarm and he is just trying more dirty tricks to bash EVE and CCP like the goonswarm always do. this definately sounds like something a goonswarm guy would do given their track record.
Ruin EVE? Some Goonswarm members gloat, destroy EVE Online
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