Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
spambunker
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 09:53:00 -
[1]
A friend of mine and I were looking for a new game in January, 2007, and decided to give eve a try. I was enjoying it enough to keep it up, but he had major issues with it: he is color deficient.
In short, the vast majority of the game is inaccessible to him. He has had to play a very conservative (read, boring) game and avoid the pvp world entirely. We have recently been doing missions together to try to find something to do while we train up for non-combat carreers.
Last week, we were in a level 4 mission. Nothing new there - we've done somewhere around 50 together. I'll spare you the details, but in short, when we hit something new - warp scramblers - he was completely at a loss. Being color deficient means that he cannot distinguish the enemy with the warp scrambler from all the guys who are just shooting at him.
He lost a 200M isk ship.
In order for him to be playing at all, he'd traded me cash in another game for eve isk. His tolerance for eve and especially CCP after about a year of his complaints falling upon deaf ears was more than enough to get him to drop the game, but I applied the thumbscrews and we kept at it despite his ire.
I loaned him another 200M, and this time he dropped in the best warp core stabilizers he could get his hands on and still have an operative ship.
Despite looking at screen captures for an hour and going through a book of photo filter gels until we found one that would make the sharpest contrast between misc game effects and the warp scram effect, that ship dropped as well.
It didn't dawn on me at all until just a few minutes ago that I've never seen him mad. Not in the slightest. It's a moment of shaken faith when a rare person like that goes almost violently ballistic. It's more difficult for a couple reasons:
1) I totally understand his frustration. I, too, have color deficiencies. Not as bad as his, but I recall how impossible it was NOT to take it personally when Homeland FINALLY came out and I FINALLY had it in hand.... and 10 minutes later was posting it on ebay because I couldn't even finish the tutorials. 2) After four years in operation, CCP has had more than enough time to address these issues. After all, more than 10% of gamers are color deficient - why wouldn't they want to address it? The answer is because artists are rather hubristic in this regard. If it isn't pretty to them, they don't want it in their game. I've been working with game artists for a decade. This is an observation for long personal experience. 3) Incidents like this grind into you the fact that what could very easily be a non-issue is in fact an impairing disability ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CCP DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
Think about it. If Departments of Transportation hang street lighting that is exactly the same color as a red light (to a red-green anomolous dichromatic color deficient like my friend and I) then driving at night suddenly becomes a game of spot the stop light. If you miss one, you die. There are entire areas of the city where I went to college where I can not drive at night.
Nothing in my experience has ever shown me a situation where color deficiency had to be a handicap. It is entirely in the hands of those who design color-dependent systems. Architects are required by law to memorize reams of handicapped-access laws, but an art department can't be bothered to run their stuff by the one or two guys in the office who could tell them they're in need of some minor adjustments?
I have been that voice in every games company for which I have worked, and it's amazing how much resistance is given to altering something that 'looks great' for 'just a small fraction of the potential buyers.' It's insensitive. It's socially irresponsible. What do you say to the guy in the wheelchair who wants to get on the bus?
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 10:04:31 First: "In order for him to be playing at all, he'd traded me cash in another game for eve isk. ", so you're an isk seller. Nice. No way around it, you are.
Second: It's not CCPs problem that you're sick. If you're a diabetic, should CCP make mandatory breaks(about 5 times a day) so you remember to take your insulin and eat? How about Someone who's blind? Surely he should enjoy EVE through an IMMERSIVE sound world. See where this is going?
It's not CCPs problem to fix all problems of people. If the game doesn't fit you or your friend, go to another game.
Not to mention, NOONE in EVE knows who's warp scrambling, it's a well documented "Please give us indicators" problem.
ALSO, game artists don't want it in their game if it's not pretty? Where the hell have you been working at? You sound like one of those suits who sit in conferences all day and THINK they know what making a game is about.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Alrich
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:02:00 -
[3]
can you see the effect of warp scramblers?
why dont you just kill all the small ones and be done with it?
the effects is hard to see for everyone and in pve you dont need them. kill all the small things and be able to warp again, tank and dont warp out or kill everything faster than they kill you... that is three ways of doing the thing you tried, all of them easier and your handicap wont matter
|
Rellik B00n
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:05:00 -
[4]
I do not feel CCP have deliberately made the game hard for your friend.
That said please evemail me in game I have the complete solution to this problem for you.
Yes seriously.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Kaakao
Insidious Existence
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:06:00 -
[5]
What can I say, other than life is not fair. Im left handed and that already ****es me off sometimes. Scissors for one can be really uncomfortable to use as they are made for right handed people.
Many people have complained about things like you mentioned, warp scramble effect can be hard to spot eaven for people with near perfect eye sight. Another thing that comes to my mind is modules. Sometimes its really hard to see if the module is blinking green or not.
---- wtb signature |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:07:00 -
[6]
I can certainly understand your concerns, however you've chosen the wrong example.
With regard to scrambling NPCs in missions, I know of no-one who actually looks for the warp scrambling effect to identify which frigate is scrambling them.
No-one.
You just make sure you know what the names are of the NPC frigate types that can scramble and you kill them first. It really is as simple as that.
Now with regard to colour-blindness causing issues with the game, I can see where that could cause problems. The module activation flash for example is difficult enough to see sometimes with normal vision let alone if you were red/green colour-blind, and there are numerous other examples that all should be looked at.
Dealing with warp acrambling frigates is easy though. Just kill them all first and you'll be fine. :)
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Vriomiunx
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:13:00 -
[7]
I dunno, but here you have to by law make it available to minor disabilities. I don't know how it is in Iceland though. :)
|
Mark Lucius
Forbidden Lore
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:13:00 -
[8]
While I agree that certain effects in the game need reworking because they are badly visible or just plain bad, I don't agree with your opinion that the game/ccp is bad because your buddy lost 200mil ships because he could not see a scrambler effect.
A browse to certain websites that tell you about eve missions could have told you and your buddy which ships do the scrambling so you can disable them first (cue helpful links).
I am sorry that you guys can get so upset with the game. I hope you will take my advice and maybe contact some developers with simple yet friendly suggestions (I assume you did already though). ---
|
mechtech
Silver Snake Enterprise
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
You just make sure you know what the names are of the NPC frigate types that can scramble and you kill them first. It really is as simple as that.
I mean really guys, even non color deficient players have to do this.
I'm sorry for your friend's trouble, but you are not at a dead end, not even near it.
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 10:07:45 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 10:04:31 First: "In order for him to be playing at all, he'd traded me cash in another game for eve isk. ", so you're an isk seller. Nice. No way around it, you are.
Second: It's not CCPs problem that you're sick. If you're a diabetic, should CCP make mandatory breaks(about 5 times a day) so you remember to take your insulin and eat? How about Someone who's blind? Surely he should enjoy EVE through an IMMERSIVE sound world. See where this is going?
It's not CCPs problem to fix all problems of people. If the game doesn't fit you or your friend, go to another game.
Not to mention, NOONE in EVE knows who's warp scrambling, it's a well documented "Please give us indicators" problem.
ALSO, "game artists don't want it in their(as if) game if it's not pretty"? Where the hell have you been working at? You sound like one of those suits who sit in conferences all day and THINK they know what making a game is about.
Harsh and to the point... that's good.
And what, he's so far gone he can't see colors at all? Just join a 0.0 corp... if there's a + he's a friend, if there's a - he not
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Weekly The Tick quote... "I can't lose my name! It's on all my stationary!!" ~The Tick |
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:24:00 -
[11]
No, this definitely goes under the 'apathy towards all gamers' column.
It's ok though, those of use who are paying attention know the UI is getting overhauled, with better status effects on the way sometime after Trinity. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Jaikar Isillia
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:25:00 -
[12]
The OP is obviously a troll.
|
Valron Xizor
The Xizor Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:34:00 -
[13]
Man this is a tough one. TBH, I cant see how any game developer can build a game to suit every kind of disability. I mean If I was in an accident and lost my arms, would I expect game devs to create a new interface?
I think game devs have to build a game that is playable by regular folks and perhaps it's up to the third parties to create something that caters for individual disabilities.
I mean where do you draw the line? there are so many different disabilities out there so how can you create a game that caters for all? Back to my analogy, if I lost my arms, and really wanted to play eve, I think the responsibility to come up with a solution would be mine, not CCP's
|
N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: N1fty on 20/11/2007 10:36:13 I dont know the nature of your friends colour deficiency, but in pvp you can change the background and symbol colours for enemy ships. Maybe that would help?
Also, as already mentioned, EVERYONE has great difficulty picking out which enemy is tackling them, at some point I am sure CCP will add a scrambling indicator (probably with the upcoming UI overhaul). For now the best advice is to do like everyone else and look on guides like Eve-Info to see which rats are the tacklers and kill them first by name.
Lastly I would also like to POINT OUT that CCP has made changes to the game to benefit people with impaired vision. A good example of this is changing the way skills look when they are trained or untrained. They used to be red or green, now they are a green tick, or red cross. And an extra symbol of yellow circle was added for the next skill needed in a tree.
So CCP is taking steps to make Eve more accessible.   ============================================
|
Seroquel
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:35:00 -
[15]
I do think game makers should consider older persons and persons with disabilities whenever possible. Its not like they have to provide oxygen machines and heart rate monitors to make some of the interfaces less painful to use.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Kappas.
Galaxy Punks Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: spambunker *snip* because i couldn't quote and write a reply*snip*
You know I have friends who are disabled, and none of them go crying through life. Life is tough for everyone, some more than others. It is not the end of the world if you can't play a game. Should CCP cater for dual arm amputees as well? Where does it end? __________________ Galaxy Punks are recruiting, click here for more info |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:46:00 -
[17]
I'm blind, deaf, dumb and I want CCP to fix Eve so I can play! I also don't have any fignerz oer tos so i tipng wif mai nozz.
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Weekly The Tick quote... "I can't lose my name! It's on all my stationary!!" ~The Tick |
Bellicose
Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:51:00 -
[18]
after the last change to the UI i have a hard time telling if some mods are active or not outta cap well i guess it was active Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Who needs a showel when you have a nice big cannon? |
Icarus Starkiller
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:54:00 -
[19]
I brought a person into the game who is also red/green colorblind, something I, as a fully chromatic see'er, could not 'get' since I have always been able to see those colors.
With a lot of work I set up his overview settings to deal with his color handicap and he has managed relatively well, even getting out into PvP. Since he considers every 'frig size' ship that's nearby and blinking as a scrambler he focuses first on them by range.
Yes, I can understand that modern computing with it's 65-odd million hues can be a headache for the vision-impared, I also understand how difficult it could be for a game company to design an interface that deals with all of the possible permutations of perceptive handicap. Luckily Eve does not rely on its buggy sound so being deaf is only a voice-comms handicap if no one is typing what's going on (something a good FC will dictate).
If there is enough need for a response to color blind players a third party person could be licenced to code an interface mod to address it. Otherwise, sorry to say, CCP cannot be held to coding it because as soon as they do some other perceptively handicapped person would be screaming 'discriminatory adaptation' that does not include them. -
Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something. |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 10:59:00 -
[20]
OP is a troll.
any1 who did 50 missions already and who plays since january would
a) know what ships are tacklers BY THEIR NAMES b) and/or know the mission database websites and check there c) have enough ISK to not worry about a mere 200M isk ship.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
|
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 11:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai OP is a troll.
any1 who did 50 missions already and who plays since january would
a) know what ships are tacklers BY THEIR NAMES b) and/or know the mission database websites and check there c) have enough ISK to not worry about a mere 200M isk ship.
I agree. I run missions with the view zoomed way out I don't need to see when I am warp scrambled. I know when I am, as the post I am quoting says, you know cause there is a scrambling frigate in range.
|
Whoa Bundy
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 11:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: spambunker It's a moment of shaken faith when a rare person like that goes almost violently ballistic.
Oh noes! If the game does that to him, maybe it's best he quits before someone gets hurt!
By the way... can I have his colorful stuff? .................... Speed tank works very well... That's because your target can't hit you as your sorry butt tucks your tail between your legs while you wail out into the distance, sissy boy |
Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 11:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Malcanis on 20/11/2007 11:39:20
Originally by: spambunker A friend of mine and I were looking for a new game in January, 2007, and decided to give eve a try. I was enjoying it enough to keep it up, but he had major issues with it: he is color deficient.
In short, the vast majority of the game is inaccessible to him. He has had to play a very conservative (read, boring) game and avoid the pvp world entirely. We have recently been doing missions together to try to find something to do while we train up for non-combat carreers.
Last week, we were in a level 4 mission. Nothing new there - we've done somewhere around 50 together. I'll spare you the details, but in short, when we hit something new - warp scramblers - he was completely at a loss. Being color deficient means that he cannot distinguish the enemy with the warp scrambler from all the guys who are just shooting at him.
He lost a 200M isk ship.
In order for him to be playing at all, he'd traded me cash in another game for eve isk. His tolerance for eve and especially CCP after about a year of his complaints falling upon deaf ears was more than enough to get him to drop the game, but I applied the thumbscrews and we kept at it despite his ire.
I loaned him another 200M, and this time he dropped in the best warp core stabilizers he could get his hands on and still have an operative ship.
Despite looking at screen captures for an hour and going through a book of photo filter gels until we found one that would make the sharpest contrast between misc game effects and the warp scram effect, that ship dropped as well.
It didn't dawn on me at all until just a few minutes ago that I've never seen him mad. Not in the slightest. It's a moment of shaken faith when a rare person like that goes almost violently ballistic. It's more difficult for a couple reasons:
1) I totally understand his frustration. I, too, have color deficiencies. Not as bad as his, but I recall how impossible it was NOT to take it personally when Homeland FINALLY came out and I FINALLY had it in hand.... and 10 minutes later was posting it on ebay because I couldn't even finish the tutorials. 2) After four years in operation, CCP has had more than enough time to address these issues. After all, more than 10% of gamers are color deficient - why wouldn't they want to address it? The answer is because artists are rather hubristic in this regard. If it isn't pretty to them, they don't want it in their game. I've been working with game artists for a decade. This is an observation for long personal experience. 3) Incidents like this grind into you the fact that what could very easily be a non-issue is in fact an impairing disability ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CCP DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
Think about it. If Departments of Transportation hang street lighting that is exactly the same color as a red light (to a red-green anomolous dichromatic color deficient like my friend and I) then driving at night suddenly becomes a game of spot the stop light. If you miss one, you die. There are entire areas of the city where I went to college where I can not drive at night.
Nothing in my experience has ever shown me a situation where color deficiency had to be a handicap. It is entirely in the hands of those who design color-dependent systems. Architects are required by law to memorize reams of handicapped-access laws, but an art department can't be bothered to run their stuff by the one or two guys in the office who could tell them they're in need of some minor adjustments?
I have been that voice in every games company for which I have worked, and it's amazing how much resistance is given to altering something that 'looks great' for 'just a small fraction of the potential buyers.' It's insensitive. It's socially irresponsible. What do you say to the guy in the wheelchair who wants to get on the bus?
http://eve-survival.org/
Edit: I can see which ships are scramming me either.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
VicturusTeSaluto
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 11:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Second: It's not CCPs problem that you're sick.
Color blindness is not a sickness, assbag.
|
Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 11:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Second: It's not CCPs problem that you're sick.
Color blindness is not a sickness, assbag.
It's no more CCP's fault that he's disabled than it's your fault he's an ass-bag. Both you and CCP reacted the same way.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
R0ot
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 11:46:00 -
[26]
The warp scrambler effects are pretty hard to see, but as already mentioned, shoot the small ships first then you wont have a problem. Or look at the hundreds of mission guides, find out which ones scramble and kill them first. I personally play with effects off so I don't even get the effect of the warp scrambler and other modules.
I don't think they've made the game difficult for your friend, you guys just didn't do enough research on the missions, if you didn't know you were going to be scrammed then that sucks, but it happens. If you did then its your own mistake, suck it up get a new ship and continue.
To say that your friend can't participate in pvp is a bit of a joke tbh. Not hard to keep your log open and see when your getting shot or scrambled. ------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Chinua Suren
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malcanis
*snip* It's no more CCP's fault that he's disabled *snip*
Well...is colour blindness passed on to offspring? In that case it's his parents fault!
--- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. û Goethe |
Amri taltiran
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:05:00 -
[28]
like a previus poster said, it is quite hard to see who is warp scrambling unless you scroll really close and can see the blue pulsing thing to one of the frigs.
But i could agree that there should be a way to make it easier to actully see who is scrambling you on a mission then having to do that. as it is quite hard when ya got alot of frigs shooting at ya.
But at the same time like previus posters also have said, shoot the frigs is the first thing you have to do on a lvl 4. if you don't know that mission well enogh.
|
Red Desire
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:13:00 -
[29]
Question : He said he "traded" some money from other game to ISK ??????????
WTF that is breaching of EULA, that's ISK selling!! There you have it CCP black on white, take the appropriate measures.
And yes, I lost 1 raven before learning the golden rule, kill frigs !!
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:13:00 -
[30]
My one highschool teacher was colorblind.... he always thought his car was green... it was brown.
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Weekly The Tick quote... "I can't lose my name! It's on all my stationary!!" ~The Tick |
|
Garborg
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:14:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Garborg on 20/11/2007 12:16:16 Well, I'm sorry your friend has a hard time with some aspects of the game. I suspect being totally blind or deaf could hamper you ability to play as well.
Not sure what the gaming industry does to help with these situations but I suspect it's not much. Especially in MMO stetting, a handicap option would have to be available to the whole user base to promote fair practices, and would probably be used by everyone if it made some aspects of the game easier. Such as "see'ing" EW effects targeting you.
My advice is to get some voice communications between you 2 while missioning so information can be relayed faster, such as take xxx out first.
|
Archa
Caldari Chickens with an Attitude
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:15:00 -
[32]
i have no hands and ccp has made an interface in wich i have to use my hands to controll the mouse... you are evil ccp!
|
Mathaw
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:21:00 -
[33]
I agree that if they want to conform to user disabilities that they shuld provide an option for gamers such as youself, however they are not in a position where they HAVE to.
It's the same as websites, they are only required to conform to these standards if they are providing a 'service'; i.e. paying you gas bill, or ordering tickets to the Olympics (documented case of this example). However if you choose not to adorn to these standards it's your choice; as at the end of the day CCP have this choice, and if they choose not to help you out they arn;t technically doing anything wrong, and it's their choice to cut out this portion of the market, at the end of the day they're missing out on custom as much as you're missing out on the game, it;s their choice as the developer of the title.
I agree that some kind of highcontrast or disability friendly 'should' be availbl, however it doesnt mean that they have to do it.
It's a shame you and your friend are having problems but there's defintely no legal recourse to be taken, or any reason to take your demands to heart, let's just hope that at some point they do :)
|
Garborg
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:25:00 -
[34]
Heh, special drivers for video cards. Could be a new bright idea. Too bad I'm lazy.
|
Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:25:00 -
[35]
Learn the names of the ships that warp scramble and kill them first, or just get all the Frigates in a mission first with your drones or ship weapons, failing that.
Getting rid of scramblers should be the first thing you do in any mission, period. There's a variety of mission info sites out there that will give you the names of the warp scramblers in it even.
To be honest, unless you've dropped the ball and not taken the warp scramblers out first and are in an "oh-****" moment where you need to get out fast and your desperately trying to find out what's scrambling you, no one actually looks for the warp scrambling animatation to see what's doing it, color blind or not. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Agif
Templar Republic R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:28:00 -
[36]
Here be disabled too.
I cant sit for long hours playing as i have had my back fused so getting in comfy mode is very difficult indeed. And long POS sieges and Sov attacks means im up and down from my seat but at the end of the day its isnt CCP's fault for this nor should they have to change their game or reimburse anyone for losses.
Simply adapt and overcome or STFU and move along to a new game thats more suited to your condition or whatever you wish to call it.
Muff
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:41:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Andrue on 20/11/2007 12:43:47 I don't have a colour deficiency but I agree that some of CCP's choices are poor. The glowing green around active modules is fine on my NH but for some reason on my alt's Sleipnir it's harder to see. I'm not really sure why (although on a Sleipnir you do have to reload a lot more). The issue with greens and reds was pointed out to CCP a long time ago and the devs even acknowledged it.
Edit:Re the warp scrambling - get your skills/ship fittings sorted out. Warping out of a mission is not a valid tactic. It's what you do when you have failed. Personally I like scramblers. At least it means they aren't doing something that affects me. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Bo Bojangles
Minmatar High4Life SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:48:00 -
[38]
Gotta go with most of the replies on this one.
If you guys are tackling lvl4's without looking at the various mission wikis available out there, then you're flying into it just plain blind, and not just color.
Maybe that's the way you wanna play it, I can see that too, not wanting to look up spoilers for whatever mission. But if that's the way you wanna play it, then you risk whatever ISK you've got tied up into your ship that much more.
That said though, yeah Eve's snare mechanic is powerful enough to warrant a separate detection system. If it were me I'd have a separate dialogue box coming up that let me know the who, what, and where's of the enemy scramming or webbing me. You know, instead of the single dialogue box we get that assumes everyone reads 500wps in that microtext. If you can even afford to have those effects on being pounded by a bunch of npc's it's still quite difficult to spot the offending vessel if at all. Some improvement could be made here.
But it is because of these shortcomings to the game that using Wikis like Malcanis described are so helpful and almost a necessity for purposes of safety. Just use them and be happy.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 12:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Red Desire Question : He said he "traded" some money from other game to ISK ??????????
WTF that is breaching of EULA, that's ISK selling!! There you have it CCP black on white, take the appropriate measures.
Mentioned it on my post, which was brutally straight up and honest i know, but it seems it's too obvious to notice?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:00:00 -
[40]
1 - argument invalid, you dont need to and often cant see the effect of tacling, whether you can see blue or not. 2 - The icons for almost every status setting (if not every last one) have an appropriate symbol as well as colour. You can still see a flashing background regardless of it's colour in most cases of colourblindness, as you can still determine change in contrast. 3 - You're trolling. The game has made many concessions towards visual problems and it is unreasonable to expect that CCP can anticipate and make allowances for every possible 'minor disability'.
I have chronic RSI, but I don't expect CCP too remove the need to use a mouse to play the game. If I'm in pain, I break or change the way i'm playing to account for it. I don't whine about it.
If you feel you and your friend have a valid need for improvement you should have posted---
Title: Colour deficiency issue and possible improvement
Hey CCP, I had this problem in a mission because due to colour deficiency I... blah blah blah.
What would have really helped me out in this case is... blah blah blah.
---
Bet you would have got a better response. Instead you threw your toys out of the pram and had a hissy fit about the evil CCP empire destroying the gaming universe. It's a bit counter productive.
~Ryoji Tanakama
Daikoku Fleet Shipyards |
|
Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:14:00 -
[41]
there IS a warp scrambling visual effect?
wow... O_O
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |
Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Saladin on 20/11/2007 13:19:45 I am not colour blind and have been playing EvE for over years. I have done hundreds of missions, traded, mined, and seen action in several conflicts. Never at any point was I ever able to determine who was warp scrambling me. If your friend had the track record you said he did, he should have known which npc was scrambling him by name.
That said, I don't like the module interface in Rev. Its really hard to determine which modules are on/off sometimes, and that applies to people who can distinguish red from green. My difficulty comes when the modules are against specific nebula colours, and I have to rotate the view sometimes to see them clearly.
|
Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama
3 - You're trolling.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If the OP actually cared about this issue, rather than having a laugh at the expense of others, I'd have expected them to respond by now.
|
Jacob Hawke
Minmatar Dread Lords
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:29:00 -
[44]
Sigh,
It may not be your fault you are disabled but it isn't CCP's either, and to me this post comes over as a whine. And ISK sellings bad, mkay?
|
Tegashi
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:31:00 -
[45]
Being unaware of A warp scrambling mission frig and losing an expensive ship is nothing out of the ordinary for anyone. I've lost an expensive ship or two in this manner and I'm not color blind.
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:34:00 -
[46]
I wish CCP would prepare an accessibility patch in their next content enhancement. I know people have green-red problems and an accessibility patch would encourage people to fight in combat.
Some icons like corp mates and war targets are confusing for visually impaired players. If CCP couldn't change colors then change icons. Make it so corp mates are the green with white stars and hostiles are red with yellow circular bull eyes.
It is not that hard. :s --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Red Desire Question : He said he "traded" some money from other game to ISK ??????????
WTF that is breaching of EULA, that's ISK selling!! There you have it CCP black on white, take the appropriate measures.
Mentioned it on my post, which was brutally straight up and honest i know, but it seems it's too obvious to notice?
Actually, I believe what he said was that he gave his friend currency in another game, (say WoW gold for example or whatever the hell they use is SWG) for some ISK in here.
Not sure where that falls under CCPs rules, but to be honest, I don't think it can be seen as more than just a donation to a friend. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tegashi Being unaware of A warp scrambling mission frig and losing an expensive ship is nothing out of the ordinary for anyone. I've lost an expensive ship or two in this manner and I'm not color blind.
I demand CCP redesign the interface to take care of my frequent beer-blindness!
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Kaakao
Insidious Existence
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Some icons like corp mates and war targets are confusing for visually impaired players. If CCP couldn't change colors then change icons. Make it so corp mates are the green with white stars and hostiles are red with yellow circular bull eyes.
It is not that hard. :s
Its not hard, you can change it yourself in the overview settings.
---- wtb signature |
El Covah
LOCKDOWN. HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:38:00 -
[50]
I am almost colorblind myself and also found it hard to identify the different color-tags. What I use myself as a workaround is that I e.g.
a) use a background-color for hostiles and no background-color for non-hostiles if I have both in overview which makes it easy to decide "what is what"
b) only display hostiles and not friendly pilots and/or gang-members (you should do this anyhow)
For almost any stuff I found out by playing with the settings how to adjust them for me, e.g. use blinking or background/non-backgrounf coloring. Non colorblind people find it somewhat confusing to look at my screen - but it works fine.
Anyhow I found no workaround for changing the damn heat-UI at the top of the modules. I cannot see if it is red or green. This really would be nice if CCP could adjust or rework that.
|
|
Syrin
Error666
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:41:00 -
[51]
I am red-green colour blind and have issues distinguishing between a whole raft of colours, however it has NEVER stopped me playing any game whatsoever. It does disqualify me from being a pilot and a sparky though . 10% of male popu;ation have issues seeing colours but the world hasnt changed for them.
|
Raxxius Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 13:48:00 -
[52]
with 10% of the male population having problems, you'd think a relatively simple graphical fix wouldn't be so hard.
|
Joss Sparq
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:05:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny My one highschool teacher was colorblind.... he always thought his car was green... it was brown.
I remember my favorite high school science teacher being color blind, a red/green switch.
I recall him telling the story of how he and some other teachers were driving back from an all-day seminar and stopped off to steal some ripe apples from an orchard on the way - yes, he was a great example to the kids,
So, while the others wait in the car in case the owner finds them and they need to make a getaway, my teacher and another run into the orchard to pick apples and dump them into a big canvas beach bag. My teacher, being taller, picks the apples while the other acts as a look out. After a few minutes they're spotted and chased off.
They just make it into the car and they all speed off before the angry owner can brain one of them with a shovel. They then discover once they're safe that my color blind teacher, of course, picked what he thought were the nicest, big juicy red apples. Which, of course, were all green and not at all edible.
- when we asked if this was a lesson about the wrongs of stealing, he told us not to be stupid, it was about learning to plan ahead, heh.
Chips of plutonium are twinkling in every lung |
ShardowRhino
Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:09:00 -
[54]
You and your friend having a hard time or being completely unable to tell what color is what does NOT MAKE YOU BLIND! I think that it sucks that you and others out there have problems telling what color is what. I had a friend back in highschool that had that problem, at first i thought he was bull****ting me until i started to notice a few things,however he played many games without a problem,the guy carried a SNES in his freakin jacket!(No joke!)
I have lost a few ships in L4s thanks to those little rats but I never bothered to look for the effect. My answer to the problem is something that applies to you and your friend. Don't bother looking for any effect/color and what frig is scraming you. Instead kill all the frigates you see. They are the small crosses on your overview. shoot those that are blinking (again color doesn't apply).
Hell theres no reason to complain about CCP not doing something that im sure 99% of us that can see colors to what ever degree would have ever thought of. The problem is even if you and your friend complianed all day long, it doesn't mean that ccp has the time...and honestly will to do such a thing. They would have to have a good chunck of the player base unable to distinguish colors in order to consider it a real issue. As much as that might suck for you, its just something ******* unheard of in gaming!
Instead of buying the best warpstabs that will give your friend a functioning ship, buy the skill for smart bombs and slap on a large bomb in the hislot. have some light drones in your bay to go after them. buy an assualt launcher.
Theres just so many possible fixes you and your friend could do in game as it is without resorting to crying about ccp not doing something that is unheard of.
|
Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom with 10% of the male population having problems, you'd think a relatively simple graphical fix wouldn't be so hard.
And what would this graphical fix be?
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny My one highschool teacher was colorblind.... he always thought his car was green... it was brown.
I remember my favorite high school science teacher being color blind, a red/green switch.
I recall him telling the story of how he and some other teachers were driving back from an all-day seminar and stopped off to steal some ripe apples from an orchard on the way - yes, he was a great example to the kids,
So, while the others wait in the car in case the owner finds them and they need to make a getaway, my teacher and another run into the orchard to pick apples and dump them into a big canvas beach bag. My teacher, being taller, picks the apples while the other acts as a look out. After a few minutes they're spotted and chased off.
They just make it into the car and they all speed off before the angry owner can brain one of them with a shovel. They then discover once they're safe that my color blind teacher, of course, picked what he thought were the nicest, big juicy red apples. Which, of course, were all green and not at all edible.
- when we asked if this was a lesson about the wrongs of stealing, he told us not to be stupid, it was about learning to plan ahead, heh.
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Weekly The Tick quote... "I can't lose my name! It's on all my stationary!!" ~The Tick |
Cypherous
Minmatar Liberty Rogues Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:17:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
With regard to scrambling NPCs in missions, I know of no-one who actually looks for the warp scrambling effect to identify which frigate is scrambling them.
No-one.
Well i can solve that one, i normally run missions with others and i always point out and mark with a broadcast target the scrambling frigs who get primaried by myself and the person i run missions with its a matter of safety and works the same in PvP except we just kill all the small stuff first, as has been mentioned there are going to be so many variations of this and do you want CCP to impliment a sliding scale for each and ever level of this, granted they could do more to indicate scramblers but they don't.
All we can do is ask them to do is to fix the small issues like scramble indicators and the really faint green around the UI but i'm losing faith in CCP adding the things we've asked for for a number of years now :( ---------
Liberty Rogues Website
|
fuze
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:25:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Cypherous All we can do is ask them to do is to fix the small issues like scramble indicators and the really faint green around the UI but i'm losing faith in CCP adding the things we've asked for for a number of years now :(
This. |
Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:28:00 -
[59]
Some of you people are *******s. Seriously. Is kicking down folks with disabilities cool now?
"Help me out in Eve, and I'll give you a kickback in Wow". Bah thats not selling, its friends helping each other out. Quit being bloody lynch mob loonies.
More to the point. I'm a web developer, and this is a very major issue in our industry. Its somewhere over 10% that have colour blindness, and then you can throw another 5-10% on top of that , that are affected by various colour-sensitive dislexias. So we have to compensate for them. (Note, a lot of websites don't. They tend to make less money).
Its an easy thing for CCP to fix. Thow in some options to shift the colours around on the HUD. Even if its just a .ini file option like 'protanopia=1' deuternopia=2' etc, it'll make a world of difference for nearly 1 in 5 players. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
|
Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:30:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Garborg Heh, special drivers for video cards. Could be a new bright idea. Too bad I'm lazy.
*THAT* would be a crazy cool idea.
Hey, I wonder whether the effect could be faked by the screen-colour adjustments. Like if someones deficient on seeing red, somehow just change the screen colour settings to push the reds into the blues or something. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
|
|
Entity One
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:34:00 -
[61]
No one cares about disabled gamers. It's not an issue of morals, its an issue of economics. Disabled gamers don't make up enough of the gamer population to justifying wasting development time solely to accommodate their needs. What next? "CCP doesn't think enough about mentally handicapped players. There are too many buttons and ******s can't process that much information." "CCP doesn't think enough about disabled war veterans. It's morally wrong to make it harder for our honored vets to play simply because they no longer have arms. This is socially irresponsible."
You want them to make these concessions? Send them a fat check to cover their development expenses and I'm sure they'd be happy to do it. Otherwise, insensitive as it may sound, it's your problem.
P.S. Dying in missions in a 200 million isk ship is embarrassing, and the warp scrambling marker is difficult to see even for people who DON'T suffer from colorblindness. I'm inclined to believe that your friend is losing ships because he doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and going "omfg no I'm very good its the colorblindness!"
|
Asestorian
Domination. Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:35:00 -
[62]
Guys don't flame the OP, that's pretty stupid. It's a valid complaint even if the example he used wasn't the best.
However, I have known several people in this game with colour deficiencies, and they have done fine in PvP and otherwise. The only issues they have with the UI is the module activation effects (the green and red flashy bits on the UI), which even people with no colour deficiency problems can have a hard time with. The warp scrambler effect doesn't have an indicator at all, and it's near impossible to get close in and check it out. In PvE you can rely on knowledge of which NPCs scramble. In PvP, where most people have effects turned off, it's just a case of luck shooting the right person
Now, I don't know what exactly your friend suffers from here, but while I agree that CCP could do a little more here and there for people with such problems, I think you and he may be relying too much on the disability as an excuse.
That said, CCP have had a hard time making a UI that's nice and usable for non-disabled people, I wouldn't trust them to be able to make one that's any good for those who are disabled
---
MOZO
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 14:48:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama I have chronic RSI, but I don't expect CCP too remove the need to use a mouse to play the game. If I'm in pain, I break or change the way i'm playing to account for it. I don't whine about it.
Expect them to address it? Perhaps not. Ask them to address it? Entirely reasonable.
RSI is a common and recognised disability (as is colour blindness). I agree that no-one should force CCP to accomodate either group (because Eve is a luxury that isn't essential to life) but members of that group every right to ask CCP to help out.
IMO RSI is another area where CCP have fumbled the ball in their current UI. The computer mouse is one of the worst offenders when it comes to RSI and the Eve GUI is far to reliant on it, especially in its use of drag and drop.
Just because some people are willing to put up with things The Way They Are(TM) doesn't mean that everyone should. The one aspect of the carrier pilots arguments that I agree with is the right to complain. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: spambunker A friend of mine and I were looking for a new game in January, 2007, and decided to give eve a try. I was enjoying it enough to keep it up, but he had major issues with it: he is color deficient. ...
Sorry to hear, but tbh not only disabled people have issues with the EVE UI. It's lacking in usability in so many ways that I can't be bothered to even name a few.
In before the fanbois tell us that CCP are soo small and doing their best etc. yada yada...
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Kel Dario
Amarr Blue Sky Inc
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:26:00 -
[65]
For those who flamed the op for helping his friend: you guys are a bunch of tards and need to grow a head between your shoulders.
Should be easy enough for ccp to code the game to help the players with color deficient problems. Guess no one at CCP have that problem and therefor they didn't think of it.
//Kel
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:29:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Adonis 4174 on 20/11/2007 15:32:34 Are scrams still the same colour as webs? I know I always couldn't see their effects through the deep blue cloud that a web puts around you.
Are they finally putting status icons into Trinity?
Edit: Anyone who reads the stickies in Features & Ideas Discussion will know CCP has known of this issue for around 18 months and have made improvements, most notably to the shapes of icons such as skill requirements which used to be identical except for being red if you didn't have it and green if you did. We still all need a status bar though. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur |
Ming TMerciless
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:44:00 -
[67]
Obviously advances in the gaming industry since pong have left your friend at a serious disadvantage. I feel his pain :( On a side note; my grandfather (who is dead) is unable to play eve due to the lack of interface between tranquility and the afterlife. CCP should be ashamed.
MING T Merciless.
|
Corwain
Gallente Down In Flames
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:52:00 -
[68]
I have great vision, and I can't see the warp scram effect unless I'm zoomed in very closely on it, and you need to know where it is to do this. I PvP all the time and I could play the game in black and white. You do know in large scale PvP all effects are turned off and the view is zoomed out to max range to minimize lag and the player operates entirely on the info his overview and scanner gives him, right? --
|
Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:54:00 -
[69]
All CCP needs to do is add a useable event log that works like a chat window. The current log doesn't contain most of the interesting info, cannot be filtered and is horribly broken even for the limited stuff it actually does (open it in the middle of a fight, you will see half the log sorted from earliest to latest and the other half in the opposite direction - bug reported multiple times, the guys who read the report didn't understand it despite the screenshots).
It would take an average programmer about a day to implement proper event logging into a chat-like window I guess (since the events are already logged *somewhere*).
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Val Vympel
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:55:00 -
[70]
To the OP.
My sympathies for your disability. I sincerly hope that you can adapt to the EVE environment and continue to enjoy the game.
CCP,however is under no obligation to accomadate you. Accusing CCP of callousness and worse is not just on your part.I recommend that you contact CCP and discover what options are available to you.
I am also disabled,I am HOH(Hard of Hearing)90% deaf and my speech is also severly degraded as a result.
I have lost allot of ships due to my condition. I try to adapt and move on.
It goes without saying that I can't use TS/Vent. Imagine for a moment if I were to post a thread on these forums that went something like this.
HOH Player-DEMANDS action.
CCP,I am HOH unable to use TS/Vent. I demand that any and all player corporations with a TS/Vent/Microphone requirement be FORCED to hire me and or suffer desolvement and perma-ban. These "heartless monsters" don't care at all how hurt I am when I read their entrance requirements. Wait,better yet I want you(CCP)to ban the use of TS/Vent servers and then all will be even and fair...Absurd Huh?
Improvise,Adapt,Overcome and have fun.
If you are a troll,please in the future stay under your bridge because threads like this don't really help the disabled of any stripe.
|
|
Savant Hayt
Minmatar The Reich
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:59:00 -
[71]
I demand a Braille version of eve for all the blind players!
This is discrimination!
/sarcasm off
|
Karina Bellac
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:01:00 -
[72]
It's actually pretty damn easy to cater for players with colour-blindness, and other visual problems: Proper UI customisation options.
You don't have to go as far as WoW's complete LUA UI engine, but some level of customisation would be good. Custom icons for ships/items in space, custom tags for the various states in the overview settings, a proper colour picker instead of "hay guys you can choose between these limited colours!".
Not to mention a plethora of UI options that could be added: - no portraits AT ALL in channel lists (just a compacted list, with the overview colourtag instead of the portrait) - removal of that lighting/shadowing effect that changes as you pan your camera around - scaling/positioning of the ship sunflower/modules UI - proper handling of where new windows appear etc. |
Samiael
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:07:00 -
[73]
Gimme a fu--ing break. The world will never be perfect for you and your friend.. you expect CCP to devote resources to an extreme minority of color blind players??
Your disabled (and mildly I might add.. oh the suffering of color blindness!!).. you cant realistically expect every business owner to cater to your problem.
There is nothing stopping you from writing a simple script in autoit.. or a short VB add on that will enlighten you when the dynamics change.
Both of those languages are failry easy to learn.. you could whip something out in a day or two after a 2 week tutorial..
which would be much better than pulling CCP resources off things that will benefit all of us to cater to your horrible disability
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:14:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:16:16 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:15:33 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:15:12
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Some of you people are *******s. Seriously. Is kicking down folks with disabilities cool now?
"Help me out in Eve, and I'll give you a kickback in Wow". Bah thats not selling, its friends helping each other out. Quit being bloody lynch mob loonies.
It has NOTHING to do with a disability.
You people thinking "oh their flaming a person with a disability" is the problem with how people treat people with disabilities.
Let's handle them with fluffy kitten toys and smiles and they'll be better. Yeah. Right.
Ask most persons with disabilities and they say "Treat me like normal people", and normal people get flamed for selling ISK in another currency, be it in ANY form. Or is it suddenly a "well you can treat him normal here, but not there" situation? didn't think so.
Sure, they COULD fix this problem, but it's not their responsibility to do so, nor is it their responsibility that the game isn't perfect for all disabilities. THAT is the issue you're saying, and it isn't valid nor even in the "nice suggestion" area.
Using a disability as a leverage, that, would be despicable.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:26:00 -
[75]
dont feel bad during major fleet battles i dont see a goddamn thing either
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:36:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:37:26 Just to clarify how the request is a bit "off", here's an example that's in the same ballpark:
Dear CCP, i recently gave my brother a gametime card for WOW and he gave me some ISKIES ingame. Now my problem involves my disability. You see, i'm a diabetic and i need to eat at certain intervals, as well as take medicine. Well, to do this, i have to quit the game or dock(which isn't always an option) so i don't lose a ship in those long fleet ops. This has lead so that i can't attend them, because i might have to leave at any time and it's a lost aspect of the game now for me. Also i can't mine effectively 'cause i can't leave my ship in lowsec unguarded.
Could you please do something about this? How about a pause button for medical issues like this? Or an invurnerability type of thing?
Thank you.
See what i mean?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:44:00 -
[77]
I have Conjoined Twin Myslexia.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
Noodle Pastaman
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 16:59:00 -
[78]
I suspect this just shows a very different outlook between Europeans and Americans.
All British (and I assume European) businesses are required to take 'reasonable' action to support handicapped people. For example a graphics design company would not be required to support a totally blind person, but if they employed a secretary with limited vision needs to do some word processing it would be expected for a company to obtain an office product that had magnifying abilities even if that cost more than a product that didnt.
Now it would be an interesting test to see how that applied to computer games, I suspect it wouldn't be unreasonable for their to be decent contrast control.
Being part of society is not a 'choice'
|
Karina Bellac
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:05:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 16:37:26 Just to clarify how the request is a bit "off", here's an example that's in the same ballpark:
Dear CCP, i recently gave my brother a gametime card for WOW and he gave me some ISKIES ingame. Now my problem involves my disability. You see, i'm a diabetic and i need to eat at certain intervals, as well as take medicine. Well, to do this, i have to quit the game or dock(which isn't always an option) so i don't lose a ship in those long fleet ops. This has lead so that i can't attend them, because i might have to leave at any time and it's a lost aspect of the game now for me. Also i can't mine effectively 'cause i can't leave my ship in lowsec unguarded.
Could you please do something about this? How about a pause button for medical issues like this? Or an invurnerability type of thing?
Thank you.
See what i mean?
So you're comparing a life-threatening condition that has nothing to do with UI useability with a non-life-threatening condition that is to do with UI useability?
That's a great strawman argument you've got there. Shame it's as watertight as the Titanic. |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:10:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I'm blind, deaf, dumb and I want CCP to fix Eve so I can play! I also don't have any fignerz oer tos so i tipng wif mai nozz.
On a similar note I hve a blind friend who atm is limited to giving blind simultaneous chess displays, but he likes ths sound of Eve. CCP, can you make Eve accessible to teh blind ones, too? Isk laundering 4t ignore
|
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:18:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:19:04
Originally by: Karina Bellac So you're comparing a life-threatening condition that has nothing to do with UI useability with a non-life-threatening condition that is to do with UI useability?
That's a great strawman argument you've got there. Shame it's as watertight as the Titanic.
First: Diabetes is nowhere near life-threatening.
Second: The example wasn't towards "your issue with UI is bad", but towards the request of changing a game to cater the needs of "few". If they cater to one need, they then should cater to all. And then we'd have a funny little game on our hands. You read the example in a wrong state of mind, as you should regard what i said earlier into it too.
THIRD: Titanic was VERY waterproof. It wasn't, however, iceberg proof.
As such, it's as "reasonable" and "legit" example. Especially the isk buying part.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Zolofine
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:20:00 -
[82]
I personally DO NOT check scramble effects... ever.
Why?
Because there's no time to sit around hunting for a scrabmle fx. If you play enough, you intuitively know which ship types are more likely to scramble you, and depending on the situation (ie being pwned or not) you may want to make these your primairy concern. There are also factors like distance which help cue you in on which ships may likely be scrambling you.
As far as PVE goes, it's even simpler in this case. Only specific NPC's scramble and you should make it a habit of killing those first as soon as they are within range. I have never done otherwise unless there was an extremely good reason for it.
The issues you mention, all have a simple solution which does not require your friend to be able to visually identify the warp scramble effect...
Is your friends condition a drawback while playing? I'm sure it is, in some way or form, but there are solutions, and those solutions are perfectly viable...
Why would you go through all this effort to allow your friend to make a visual ID of the scrambling ship, when some common sense and logic can accomplish the same, in a more efficient manner?
So with all due respect, i don't see your point...
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones THIRD: Titanic was VERY waterproof. It wasn't, however, iceberg proof.
Icebergs are made of water.
That nitpick aside, the issue here is affects being hard to spot, not by people with impaired vision but by everybody. My left eye is so perfect it's off the scale and I still can only think of one time I've spotted a warp scramble effect. Getting warp scrambled is something that happens to me a lot and I just don't waste time looking for it, I assume it will be one of the small ships and kill them all until I can warp. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:29:00 -
[84]
Yeah except this whole thread is pointless and probably a joke. So someone is colorblind to blue? Well guess what! There are people who are colorblind to every single color in the fecking rainbow and you can't accomodate them all, nor should we.
Whats next? Colorblind people who write movie directors and say "Please release your movie in these other colors so I can see the explosions too! I'm colorblind have pity!" - Screw that.
This game was not made for colorblind people, or for blind people, or deaf people, or even for mute people. It's REALLY awesome though when those people (the blind, deaf, mute etc) find their OWN way to actually enjoy this game, I have a HUGE amount of respect for those people.
But the whole "change the game to fit the disabled"..Yeah..whatever.
There are games out there made specifically for blind people where it's all based on sound and it works really great. So what..should I now come along and cry about that they're being apathetic towards non-blind people because they provide no actual graphic content??? You really are idiots.
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:36:00 -
[85]
Ok, how about they hang a big neon sign over the ship with an arrow pointing down that reads.... "To whom it may concern: This is the ship that is currently warp scrambling you... this means that you may not warp unless it is turned off. Well, or unless you're stabbed out which is ok but you won't be able to lock anyone in under a minute... and there's another guy doing it too... he's got another sign over him repeating this message. Oh well, the message here is you're being scrambled and this is the guy doing it. If you are blind there will be a brail explanation if you have the right Wii-mote plugged in. Have a nice day"
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Weekly The Tick quote... "I can't lose my name! It's on all my stationary!!" ~The Tick |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:36:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:36:32 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:36:22
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Originally by: Sheriff Jones THIRD: Titanic was VERY waterproof. It wasn't, however, iceberg proof.
Icebergs are made of water.
That nitpick aside, the issue here is affects being hard to spot, not by people with impaired vision but by everybody. My left eye is so perfect it's off the scale and I still can only think of one time I've spotted a warp scramble effect. Getting warp scrambled is something that happens to me a lot and I just don't waste time looking for it, I assume it will be one of the small ships and kill them all until I can warp.
Nitpicking back into the equation: You can say a clock is waterproof, yet if it's demolished by a falling cube of ice, it's still valid it is WATERproof.
And back on the topic:
Yes, there's no argument that the warp scramble effect and such need revisiting/improvements, but this thread isn't about it. It's about the disability being a leverage to change something.
If the original post would've been: "Could we have a clearer warp scramble effect", people would've agreed. As such, it was a request to overhaul the graphics, or make them optionally more complex, to cater the needs of a person.
See the difference?
Also about how paying for ISK in ANY currency, virtual or not, is a nono.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Ok, how about they hang a big neon sign over the ship with an arrow pointing down that reads.... "To whom it may concern: This is the ship that is currently warp scrambling you... this means that you may not warp unless it is turned off. Well, or unless you're stabbed out which is ok but you won't be able to lock anyone in under a minute... and there's another guy doing it too... he's got another sign over him repeating this message. Oh well, the message here is you're being scrambled and this is the guy doing it. If you are blind there will be a brail explanation if you have the right Wii-mote plugged in. Have a nice day"
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at that mental image of the neon sign .
|
Zolofine
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:52:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nitpicking back into the equation: You can say a clock is waterproof, yet if it's demolished by a falling cube of ice, it's still valid it is WATERproof.
Ice cubes do not demolish clocks afaik...
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 17:55:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 17:55:31
Originally by: Zolofine
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nitpicking back into the equation: You can say a clock is waterproof, yet if it's demolished by a falling cube of ice, it's still valid it is WATERproof.
Ice cubes do not demolish clocks afaik...
Condensated enough, heavy enough, and it'll wreack havoc on your swatch like a gymnastic prostitute on...well...lots!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Dextrius
Gallente ironwood ink
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 18:01:00 -
[90]
Spambunker is likely an alt from Goonswarm and he is just trying more dirty tricks to bash EVE and CCP like the goonswarm always do. this definately sounds like something a goonswarm guy would do given their track record.
Ruin EVE? Some Goonswarm members gloat, destroy EVE Online
|
|
Khes
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 18:04:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Khes on 20/11/2007 18:04:30 Not that it help much at all because you dont have time reading it, but there is a sign that says who is trying to warp-scramble who. I don't know exactly when this sign shows up because I don't see it everytime someone in my gang warpscramble someone. But it is there sometimes
|
Zolofine
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 18:05:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dextrius Spambunker is likely an alt from Goonswarm and he is just trying more dirty tricks to bash EVE and CCP like the goonswarm always do. this definately sounds like something a goonswarm guy would do given their track record.
Yes...
Let us go to Defcon 3 and call Michael Moore to the pentagon to investigate the matter...
|
Cailais
Amarr W A R
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:00:00 -
[93]
Im not colour deficient (or 'colour blind' as some people refer to it as) and have 20/20 vision.
I can't pick out the war scramble effect to well either in certain lights - its just not a very obvious graphic.
Best idea Id suggest is for ccp to allow you to modify notifications; that way you could set the notify to remove all damage hits, but just leave warp scramble notifications.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
|
Apocryphai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:04:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 10:07:45 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 10:04:31 First: "In order for him to be playing at all, he'd traded me cash in another game for eve isk. ", so you're an isk seller. Nice. No way around it, you are.
Second: It's not CCPs problem that you're sick. If you're a diabetic, should CCP make mandatory breaks(about 5 times a day) so you remember to take your insulin and eat? How about Someone who's blind? Surely he should enjoy EVE through an IMMERSIVE sound world. See where this is going?
It's not CCPs problem to fix all problems of people. If the game doesn't fit you or your friend, go to another game.
Not to mention, NOONE in EVE knows who's warp scrambling, it's a well documented "Please give us indicators" problem.
ALSO, "game artists don't want it in their(as if) game if it's not pretty"? Where the hell have you been working at? You sound like one of those suits who sit in conferences all day and THINK they know what making a game is about.
That's the stupidest post I've ever seen you make Jones. In fact it's so stupid it earns a CAOD block, hence I will never see another one of your posts again. Bye.
And to the OP, yeah, being colour blind to any extent pretty much sucks for gaming. Very, VERY few gaming companies give a rats ass. The only ray of light is games with really good UI's (WoW for example) that allow modification by players.
EVE's UI designers however have never heard of usability, iterative design or interface testing, so don't hold your breath waiting for any sign of intelligence in UI redesign in the future :(
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
|
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:12:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Apocryphai
EVE's UI designers however have never heard of usability, iterative design or interface testing, so don't hold your breath waiting for any sign of intelligence in UI redesign in the future :(
Since when did you crawl inside the brains of the UI designers of EVE and decide what they have, and haven't heard of? Didn't you watch the fanfest presentation, it said in BIG BOLD LETTERS: ITERATION IS KEY!
You're another one of those morons spewing crap out without knowing what the hell they're talking about in the first place.
|
Ming TMerciless
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:12:00 -
[96]
wont somebody please think of the children
My corp is full of alcoholic, dyslexic, insomniac, pot smoking idiots , Were on our own and so are you.
This Universe is a harsh place.
|
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:12:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Dextrius Spambunker is likely an alt from Goonswarm and he is just trying more dirty tricks to bash EVE and CCP like the goonswarm always do. this definately sounds like something a goonswarm guy would do given their track record.
you caught me
|
Fenderson
Shadow Company FreeFall Securities
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:19:00 -
[98]
if you read the patch notes from the last year or so you will actually find that there have been several (admittedly minor) UI tweaks specifically aimed at making the game easier for people with color impairment/blindness.
im sure its still far from ideal, but you can hardly accuse them of not caring. if you have ideas as to how they can specifically improve it, post in the Features and Ideas discussion board and i bet you would find more improvements going in in the next few iterations of the UI.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
|
Chinua Suren
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:19:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Dramaticus
you caught me
With your pants down?
--- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. û Goethe |
Buyerr
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:37:00 -
[100]
damn what nice replies you can all give.. a-holes.-...
yes warpscrams grafic is a problem and i still dont get why they haven't set in a way to see who is scrambling you or just that your being scrambled like any other EW.
|
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:41:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Apocryphai That's the stupidest post I've ever seen you make Jones. In fact it's so stupid it earns a CAOD block, hence I will never see another one of your posts again. Bye.
Well, sorry to see you feel this way, some counter points would've been more productive though.
Simply saying "You're stupid, i don't like you", is a bit juvenile. But, each to their own. Can't please 'em all.
I made valid points, as i see them, and it had nothing to do with being colorblind, or ignorance towards disabled people, quite the opposite i believe.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:54:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 20/11/2007 19:54:02
Originally by: Kaakao
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Some icons like corp mates and war targets are confusing for visually impaired players. If CCP couldn't change colors then change icons. Make it so corp mates are the green with white stars and hostiles are red with yellow circular bull eyes.
It is not that hard. :s
Its not hard, you can change it yourself in the overview settings.
Hello friend of the community. Could you please show or tell me how to make it so that corp mates and war targets are accessible to players with special needs?
Thank you :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Auron Shadowbane
Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:58:00 -
[103]
sorry to say but not beeing able to see the warp scram effect is not a handicap in eve. noone can see the effect in a "serious" situation because if you zoom in far enough to see that light blue shine you dont see anything else.
although I think the "disabled people" card is a nice try to get ccp to implement a feature (the "you are warp scrambled"-button in ui).
a good hint would be to kill small rats first. EVER. missions werent designed to be risk free and if you get killed it's because your tank failed and so you failed. finally KNOWING that you are scrambled wouldn't have helped you a bit anyways.
|
Kelevraen
Caldari Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:10:00 -
[104]
Not to be a ****, or maybe I to be one, who knows... But:
You are your color blind friend should just deal with it. Adapt, or quit. Don't bring your complaints here, because in all honesty, not many people will give a damn. =\
Hi there! |
torswin
Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:46:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Some of you people are *******s. Seriously. Is kicking down folks with disabilities cool now?
"Help me out in Eve, and I'll give you a kickback in Wow". Bah thats not selling, its friends helping each other out. Quit being bloody lynch mob loonies.
More to the point. I'm a web developer, and this is a very major issue in our industry. Its somewhere over 10% that have colour blindness, and then you can throw another 5-10% on top of that , that are affected by various colour-sensitive dislexias. So we have to compensate for them. (Note, a lot of websites don't. They tend to make less money).
Its an easy thing for CCP to fix. Thow in some options to shift the colours around on the HUD. Even if its just a .ini file option like 'protanopia=1' deuternopia=2' etc, it'll make a world of difference for nearly 1 in 5 players.
Win. I'm shocked how people responds to this. Haven't your parents thaught you to never discriminate..? If not, then I feel bad for you.
I know two guys (they're brothers) that are colour blind and every now and then they send me screen shots of some weird game and asks me "which one is green?" for instance. It's not EVE that has a problem with discrimination against colour blindness. It's not much of a step to fix either. Can't see why you guys to totally maniac when he just raise an issue that should, in my opinion, be dealt with. --- Unless explicitly stated, this post does not represent my alliance, corporation, my own, or any other living organism's view. |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: torswin Can't see why you guys to totally maniac when he just raise an issue that should, in my opinion, be dealt with.
To be honest, it is quite easy. Look at their in-game profession. I am guessing they are some hard core players. :s --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Pitt Bull
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:53:00 -
[107]
Originally by: spambunker What do you say to the guy in the wheelchair who wants to get on the bus?
Adapt or GTFO.
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:54:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Pitt Bull
Originally by: spambunker What do you say to the guy in the wheelchair who wants to get on the bus?
Adapt or GTFO.
Ok I think you just won the forum. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:58:00 -
[109]
Forget for a moment the disability aspect of the OP. It doesn't make any sense that they can't put some kind of visible symbol on the HUD (D stands for DISPLAY) that tells you who is doing what to you. Put a little scram icon next to the ship in the overview, it can't take more than a few minutes of programming time, maybe an artist's lunch hour to resize the PSD and make it look pretty.
I've got the advantage of being able to see colors and it even ****es me off that I can't tell who's scrambling me without zooming in to every frig in space. Your client already knows about the scram, it's not going to add lag or anything. What's the use in hiding it?
|
torswin
Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: torswin Can't see why you guys to totally maniac when he just raise an issue that should, in my opinion, be dealt with.
To be honest, it is quite easy. Look at their in-game profession. I am guessing they are some hard core players. :s
I think they would love to have more ships to blow up, if the colour blind doesn't have to GTFO since the game has bad designing. --- Unless explicitly stated, this post does not represent my alliance, corporation, my own, or any other living organism's view. |
|
spambunker
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:14:00 -
[111]
As the original poster, I'd like to address some of the recurring themes of the thread so far:
1) "The warp scram effect is hard to see for everyone." I addressed this in the original post. It's hard to see for everyone, but impossible for a red-green anomolous dichromat. It skews the game away from the disability. 2) "Know who you need to kill." We did. We hopped in and went straight for the scramblers, but there were several and they were backed by about a dozen close-range battleships. Rarely do more than one scram at a time, but finding the one scramming you is very hard. I manage it because I use filter gels for particular tasks to make my ability to distinguish colors easier. It's still nearly useless, though. The time it took to kill half of them was all it took for the tank to collapse. 2a) "There are a ton of mission guides that would have told you A, B, C, and D." So, what... you're telling me that if you don't cheat, you shouldn't expect to be able to play the game? 3) A number of people observed that, in the words of one poster, I "chose the wrong example." That there are far worse violations of high-contrast color design has not escaped either of us. It's just that after nearly a year of pointing these things out to CCP we finally had a major problem as a result of one of them, it is that one item I called out in my post. The red/green issue on active/inactive modules is one so blindingly simple to fix that it is a perfect example of CCPs total disconcern with the issue. 4) "Just join a corp in 0.0." "+" means friend, anything else is an enemy. My friend was in a corp for a while - and was harassed constantly for the effect his color vision had on his game and had no option but to leave. 5) "Game developers can't target every disability..." but they can acknowledge the fact that more than 1 in 10 of their players has this one and it is by far the simplest to design to. The hardware to allow you to play (glasses, orthopedic mouse, special keyboard) are firmly player-side issues, but there isn't anything a player can do about poor color design. The level of garbage rhetoric people invoked on this one was pathetic. 6) "Find/develop/request a third-party mod." The colors that are rendered in a game like this are the result of the shaders that are invoked in your hardware. Modding them is not a realistic option. I do this stuff for a living. Writing them in the first place is hard enough. Reverse engineering someone else's code and rendering engine to do this is out of reach. 7) "How is CCP supposed to know about the problems if they themselves have normal vision?" First, if you'd read the original message, you'd have seen that we've mentioned these things to them before and second - they have CD people on staff, just not in the art department. 8) It amazes me how many people didn't read the first post but still thought they knew enough about what it said to comment on it.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:27:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 21:32:27 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 20/11/2007 21:31:34 Like said previously, it has nothing to do with "being a (insert bad word) towards osmeone with a disability", that's just a...how to put it nicely...juvinile twist of words to make one look like a bad guy?
My point was, as spambunker noted on above post, that it shouldn't be CCPs RESPONSIBILITY, as it was implied(not sure if meant) in the original post.
NOW, better UI, as in the color thread(other), is a good idea, but the main grief here is the A: Use of a disability to gain leverage(wrong, yes?) and B: Claiming CCP has a responsibility to fix it. C: Claiming they had ample time to fix it, while knowing nothing of how busy they are. and D:, i'm still on the side of isk selling that was a bit "iffy" in the original post.
It's all in how you bring it out.
If you're constructive, don't try to guilt stuff and be polite, it get treated with respect. If not, you get what you (from some users) get here.
I actually find it rather offensive that i, for one, am labeled as "bad guy" for treating disabled people like normal people, in the context that, simply because he's disabled, i shouldn't say it's a bad idea or some other such thing
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Faye Valerii
Caldari Exeunt Omnes
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:34:00 -
[113]
I'm not colourblind but still can't see the scramble effect : )
Have you thought about a technological solution ? I can't imagine there isn't a dx9 wrapper/filter or driver tweak out there where you can set certain colours to be displayed as another.
|
Biscuts
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:42:00 -
[114]
Originally by: spambunker A friend of mine and I were looking for a new game in January, 2007, and decided to give eve a try. I was enjoying it enough to keep it up, but he had major issues with it: he is color deficient.
In short, the vast majority of the game is inaccessible to him. He has had to play a very conservative (read, boring) game and avoid the pvp world entirely. We have recently been doing missions together to try to find something to do while we train up for non-combat carreers.
Last week, we were in a level 4 mission. Nothing new there - we've done somewhere around 50 together. I'll spare you the details, but in short, when we hit something new - warp scramblers - he was completely at a loss. Being color deficient means that he cannot distinguish the enemy with the warp scrambler from all the guys who are just shooting at him.
He lost a 200M isk ship.
In order for him to be playing at all, he'd traded me cash in another game for eve isk. His tolerance for eve and especially CCP after about a year of his complaints falling upon deaf ears was more than enough to get him to drop the game, but I applied the thumbscrews and we kept at it despite his ire.
I loaned him another 200M, and this time he dropped in the best warp core stabilizers he could get his hands on and still have an operative ship.
Despite looking at screen captures for an hour and going through a book of photo filter gels until we found one that would make the sharpest contrast between misc game effects and the warp scram effect, that ship dropped as well.
It didn't dawn on me at all until just a few minutes ago that I've never seen him mad. Not in the slightest. It's a moment of shaken faith when a rare person like that goes almost violently ballistic. It's more difficult for a couple reasons:
1) I totally understand his frustration. I, too, have color deficiencies. Not as bad as his, but I recall how impossible it was NOT to take it personally when Homeland FINALLY came out and I FINALLY had it in hand.... and 10 minutes later was posting it on ebay because I couldn't even finish the tutorials. 2) After four years in operation, CCP has had more than enough time to address these issues. After all, more than 10% of gamers are color deficient - why wouldn't they want to address it? The answer is because artists are rather hubristic in this regard. If it isn't pretty to them, they don't want it in their game. I've been working with game artists for a decade. This is an observation for long personal experience. 3) Incidents like this grind into you the fact that what could very easily be a non-issue is in fact an impairing disability ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CCP DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
Think about it. If Departments of Transportation hang street lighting that is exactly the same color as a red light (to a red-green anomolous dichromatic color deficient like my friend and I) then driving at night suddenly becomes a game of spot the stop light. If you miss one, you die. There are entire areas of the city where I went to college where I can not drive at night.
Nothing in my experience has ever shown me a situation where color deficiency had to be a handicap. It is entirely in the hands of those who design color-dependent systems. Architects are required by law to memorize reams of handicapped-access laws, but an art department can't be bothered to run their stuff by the one or two guys in the office who could tell them they're in need of some minor adjustments?
I have been that voice in every games company for which I have worked, and it's amazing how much resistance is given to altering something that 'looks great' for 'just a small fraction of the potential buyers.' It's insensitive. It's socially irresponsible. What do you say to the guy in the wheelchair who wants to get on the bus?
I lol'd
|
Daelorn
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:43:00 -
[115]
Originally by: spambunker As 4) "Just join a corp in 0.0." "+" means friend, anything else is an enemy. My friend was in a corp for a while - and was harassed constantly for the effect his color vision had on his game and had no option but to leave.
Who?
|
spambunker
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 01:49:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Faye Valerii
Have you thought about a technological solution ? I can't imagine there isn't a dx9 wrapper/filter or driver tweak out there where you can set certain colours to be displayed as another.
Two problems with that. Even if it were possible, spectrally speaking, you couldn't do this in a context-specific way. For instance, "I want to be able to distinguish those effects which call out positive/negative states by the use of red and green." You could make the reds, say, grey, but it would be for the entire screen or at best, certain parts of it. You'd end up mistaking red cargo containers for grey....
The second problem is the spectral issue. Once the spectrum has been pared down to the red, green, and blue channels, you can't really do a postprocessing adjustment that allows people who have sensitivity issues at those frequencies to differentiate. I'll defer the The best description of the whole issue I've ever read - though the page has some major failings - is at http://www.firelily.com/opinions/color.html. The author discusses, among other things, how easy it is to design to CD viewers.
In the end, game companies are like any other. Cash is king. Regardless of which CD issue in eve we're discussing, I think the one thing the posters here have agreed upon is that they do exist. The fact that they exist is a business issue for CCP in that it effects (and when ignored over a long period) alienates a significant percentage of their players.
I'm happy to abandon all my other statements and issues in this regard in favor of that one assertion. It's my friend that lost the ship, not I. Though I may well lose a playing partner as a result. My issue is more about the broader case of readily apparent apathy than the individual failings. The latter are just the constituents of the former.
|
Sarah Aubry
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 02:16:00 -
[117]
CCP are keeping up with the very latest of technologies and I'm certain as soon as a neural interface is available they will support it. This will get around all known disabilities which don't impede ones ability to think.
Until then, can you imagine how boring and disgusting eve would look for the majority of the player base if they designed it for colour blind people? Don't be so selfish. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 02:17:00 -
[118]
just set your monitor to black and white, viola, no pesky colours and you can easily interpret which shade of grey means what, the same as the rest of us
frankly there is only so much that can be done to facilitate people with visual disabilities when it coems to a medium that relies on visual cues HEAVILY, if your friend hasn't come to grips with that he is going to be a very sad person all his life
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
|
spambunker
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 02:53:00 -
[119]
As it has already been pointed out by other players, it doesn't negatively impact other players to have good color contrast in a game. In fact, developing to CD players gives standard tritanopics better cues from which to work as well. The example of the day seems to be the red/green they use for active/inactive modules. Imagine for a moment how close those shades are in RGB space. The reason you have to stare at it for a second to grok what it's trying to tell you is the same reason it tells me nothing at all - there isn't enough color contrast.
On that point, not only did CCP fail to service their CD player population, but failed in the exact same manner almost every player in the game. I guess that the blue-green deficient players (about .1% of the population) probably love it. Their perception of those indicators would be vastly different.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 03:12:00 -
[120]
Predictably this thread has the usual amount of "hurr well sucks to be you" towards the disabled.
I'm with everyone who supports modifying the game to be more friendly towards color deficient players - no one can sit here and genuinely say that there isn't a problem in EVE currently with trying to determine who is applying what effects to you, color deficient or not.
|
|
Ventallia Renvess
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 03:25:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Ventallia Renvess on 21/11/2007 03:26:05
-----------
Rawr, I'm a manatee |
Copine Callmeknau
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 03:26:00 -
[122]
You guys died in a lvl 4 mission, with two of you?
....
lol
-----
Originally by: Patch86 Depressing as hell though. By the end, you feel like someone's eaten your kitten.
|
Ilvan
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 03:29:00 -
[123]
Originally by: James Duar Predictably this thread has the usual amount of "hurr well sucks to be you" towards the disabled.
I'm with everyone who supports modifying the game to be more friendly towards color deficient players - no one can sit here and genuinely say that there isn't a problem in EVE currently with trying to determine who is applying what effects to you, color deficient or not.
Indeed. It's not like making the UI more accessible to colour-blind people is a huge undertaking.
A simple config file that lets you set the colour of UI elements would be more than enough.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 03:29:00 -
[124]
Originally by: James Duar Predictably this thread has the usual amount of "hurr well sucks to be you" towards the disabled.
I'm with everyone who supports modifying the game to be more friendly towards color deficient players - no one can sit here and genuinely say that there isn't a problem in EVE currently with trying to determine who is applying what effects to you, color deficient or not.
even more predictably it is filled with selfrighteous idiots like this who offer no CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and like to look down on other people who have posted
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
|
Vitrael
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 03:43:00 -
[125]
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read. "My friend died in a mission because he's colorblind." What rubbish.
1. If he was going to die in mission, he would've died regardless of being colorblind or not.
2. If he needed to warp out, he should've simply killed the frigates first had he had the sense. If he had a bit of know how about him as well he'd know that scramblers have different names from typical ships.
3. In PVP, -10s are red but they also have a minus (-) indicator so regardless of color he should be able to distinguish between good guy and bad.
Then you complain about stop lights.
Surprise! I'm red-green deficient, and so is my pops, and his before him, and I can drive fine (as we all could) because red lights are always on top, green ones are always on bottom and yellow ones come... ready for it? INBETWEEN!
Quit being melodramatic.
|
Trind2222
Amarr Celestial Pillagers Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 04:11:00 -
[126]
1. Golden rule in eve is don't fly any thing you can't afford for.
2.sound this guy is going for lvl 4 right away some thing new(noob's) people shod not do.
3.can i have your suff?
|
Daelorn
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 04:27:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Daelorn on 21/11/2007 04:27:11 90% of the people who replied in this thread are in fact idiots.
Please don't reproduce. Please.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 04:30:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Daelorn Edited by: Daelorn on 21/11/2007 04:27:11 90% of the people who replied in this thread are in fact idiots.
Please don't reproduce. Please.
and your post makes... 91%
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
|
Daelorn
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 04:37:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Daelorn on 21/11/2007 04:37:04
|
F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 04:55:00 -
[130]
I'd like to point out that according to a dev interview from several years ago, Eve has one of the higher rates of disabled gamers playing it. The relatively simple point and click interface is actually more attractive to disabled gamers who do not have the reflexes to play FPS style games. Eve is a game like chess that relies on mental abilities rather than physical when planning PvP and other encounters, such as knowing that rats with certain names warp scramble, especially since no one with even 20/10 vision can tell which one is scrambling them.
As for color-blindness, CCP has actually tried to make the game better for those with it (though they have several steps to go). The added the check and X system with skills to tell if you can train it or not. Now they just have to work on the active/inactive UI icons.
Originally by: Karen Serasia Because some idiot decided to sell an internet connection to me and didn't think of the consequences.
|
|
Hulkon
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 05:00:00 -
[131]
Who cares? A lot of people, but who ~really~ cares enough to cancel there subscription to make CCP want to change their game that much. 2 people? Thirty dollars a month. From a business stand point that seems a bit irrational. I mean their spending a few thousand bucks changing a few things so two dudes don't quit. C'mon this may be game which profits on fun but it has to profit.. Sure they could still profit spending a few bucks but then Himlar couldn't buy another yacht. So please before you whine about how some game isn't fair on your disability think of Himlar Purssens yacht collection and how much everyone doesn't ~really~ care.
|
Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 06:24:00 -
[132]
I love the sense of entitlement in the OP, I realize I am late to the party but I just gotta toss in my two cents. Do you really think that because god handed your mate a ****ty set of cards that CCP should have to cater him? What a joke.
|
Eulalinda
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 06:51:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Eulalinda on 21/11/2007 06:52:51
Originally by: spambunker 3) Incidents like this grind into you the fact that what could very easily be a non-issue is in fact an impairing disability ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CCP DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
Yep.
The world's top public intellectual, Noam Chomsky, has a book called Profit Over People. It's about how corporations and businesses (like CCP) are after one thing and one thing only.
Usually, the only constraint against them is public outcry.
I'm with you!
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 07:09:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Eulalinda Edited by: Eulalinda on 21/11/2007 06:52:51
Originally by: spambunker 3) Incidents like this grind into you the fact that what could very easily be a non-issue is in fact an impairing disability ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE CCP DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
Yep.
The world's top public intellectual, Noam Chomsky, has a book called Profit Over People. It's about how corporations and businesses (like CCP) are after one thing and one thing only.
Usually, the only constraint against them is public outcry.
I'm with you!
A book suggesting that businesses prioritize profit? Truly this man has a formidable intellect. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Eulalinda
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 07:26:00 -
[135]
...While ignoring human suffering.
|
Cyriel Longinus
XERCORE
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 07:39:00 -
[136]
Hey OP,
Your friend could train up for a Drake or Nighthawk. The Nighthawk would be the better. Then your Level 4 Missions would be easy as load, lock and shoot while you roam about your flat doing your domestic business.
The tank on the well fitted Nighthawk is impenetrable by Level 4 Missions, even if you did manage to agro all the NPCs. You would have enough time to kill all the Frigs and make an exit if for some reason the damage looked as though it would overwhelm you.
|
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr The Wild Hunt Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 09:14:00 -
[137]
I know someone who is almost completely disabled and (as far as I understood) can only move his head. He is able, to a point ofcourse, to play EVE but it forced into a carebear role, PVP would be way to fast paced for him.
The thing is that YES, the UI is still crap and YES the scramble effect is difficult to notice, so yes it could be tweaked a whole lot. BUT starting an "OMG CCP ARE TEH DEVILS" post doesn't quite fit with this. I think that's why people are reacting as they are.
Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online |
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 09:23:00 -
[138]
Originally by: spambunker The example of the day seems to be the red/green they use for active/inactive modules.
Which non-colour-deficient players complained about the day they were brought in. Forget colour vision, you can't see that against the background in Korsiki. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur |
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 09:35:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Andrue on 21/11/2007 09:37:59
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Hey OP,
Your friend could train up for a Drake or Nighthawk. The Nighthawk would be the better. Then your Level 4 Missions would be easy as load, lock and shoot while you roam about your flat doing your domestic business.
The tank on the well fitted Nighthawk is impenetrable by Level 4 Missions, even if you did manage to agro all the NPCs. You would have enough time to kill all the Frigs and make an exit if for some reason the damage looked as though it would overwhelm you.
Very true. I don't even have a shield booster fitted. I do occasionally glance at the shield/cap readout but it's rarely worth the bother. I think since completing my faction fitting I've never seen the shields go below 60% but even a T2 fitting is unlikely to drop below 50%.
'course it runs the missions a little slower than a CNR but not that much really. It's probably faster than a Raven.
Not forgetting that HMs are reasonably effective against frigs as well. That means that even if you have to kill them and even if you've lost all your drones you can still do it quick enough to get out before you're into structure. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 10:58:00 -
[140]
Some UI button colors suck, I'm not uh "disabled" or whatsoever more than average guy (:P) but I still sometimes have difficulties to figure out if my module is activated or not for example. In my opinion EVE UI needs imrovements like icons showing different states of ship (warp scrambled, damped, jammed etc.) and module activation/reloading etc. should be made easier. I don't want to click 8 icons just to activate my all modules with at least 1 second delay on everything. Like said this is not fps shooter game and we shouldn't be relying on information we get by looking around or refreshing scanner every 1 second.
While I think the op and his pal are overreacting, I think there's a point there too.
|
|
Bentula
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 12:06:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Bentula on 21/11/2007 12:06:41
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Bentula Its like not offering your place in the bus to the old lady who obviously is in pain standing
Video Games: As Important As Public Transport
Its about empathy, not games or public transport. If your only reason for not helping someone in any kind of situation is that you dont have to do it thats not a good attitude.
|
Kendar Zek
Gallente Interstellar Aid Society
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 12:09:00 -
[142]
There's an effect indicator for this sort of thing? I've been playing for a long time, and I never even knew about it! As others have said, the best thing to do is to know your NPCs and understand which of them can scramble, jam, dampen, and do all manner of vile things other than shoot.
I, too, am color deficient. My color deficiency prevented me from pursuing a very promising career in nuclear propulsion with the US Navy. Much like the Navy, however, it is not CCP's fault that my own medical condition precludes me from doing certain things as well as I could, or should.
-- Owner, Venture Racing Team
|
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 12:38:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I wish CCP would prepare an accessibility patch in their next content enhancement. I know people have green-red problems and an accessibility patch would encourage people to fight in combat.
Some icons like corp mates and war targets are confusing for visually impaired players. If CCP couldn't change colors then change icons. Make it so corp mates are the green with white stars and hostiles are red with yellow circular bull eyes.
It is not that hard. :s
All men have some degree of red-green colourblindness. But most will never even realise it.
If they did this when you were a kid, and showed you the pictures made of coloured dots with a symbol in the middle, girls would always score better because of this. On average, obviously.
~Ryoji Tanakama
Daikoku Fleet Shipyards |
|
ISD Valorem
Amarr ISD STAR
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 13:51:00 -
[144]
Moved from General Discussion to Features and Ideas.
All spam, troll and off topic posts removed.
Please stay on topic.
forum rules | CAOD Rules | [email protected] | Our Website |
|
Bentula
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 15:45:00 -
[145]
This is a basic colortest colortest.
I dont have any color deficit im aware of, but i still have trouble recognising some of the numbers. Maybe more of us are affected than we think?
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 16:09:00 -
[146]
To the Op:: if ccp would have added a indicator to the ship using that EW on you (a small icon next to the ship) is what everyone has been asking for for a long time then that might solve your pals problem, if not then mayb it would be nice if ccp would let you adjust the effects color. I am sure that could be done but not sure they would take the time to do it :/..
To everyone who tells the Op that no one can see it:: Your all stoopid.
To everyone who tells the Op he shouldnt do missions without using websites:: That's valid but some people do run missions before they show up on websites, and some guys like to do things without being 100% prepared
To everyone who says that "No one ever looks to see what ship is webbing me so I can kill it":: Stop telling lies!
|
Loedem
Minmatar Knockaround Guys
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 20:10:00 -
[147]
To the OP. I agree that color blindness is a challenge to overcome with gaming, but I don't agree with your logic that failure to address disabilities in games is in the developer's court, thus making them apathetic if they miss a disability. Just by that notion, you open a TON of disabilities that need to addressed other than color blindness, which are really too much of a burden to code directly into the game when there's workarounds and alternatives already available through the PC industry.
You can modify the RGB, Brightness, Contrast, and Gamma with most video cards (go under settings, advanced and launch your video card's control panel...both ATI and Nvidia cards support these tweaks). Sure it will look odd, but the colors that were missed before will stand out more.
Having a disability is always a challenge, but that's part of life. You have those that adapt to those challenges, and you have those that expect it to be the responsibility of others to compensate. To a degree, things in life should be made with disabilities in mind...in the US it's the law to have wheelchair ramps to public buildings. But color blindness is less dehabilitating, a challenge nonetheless and I feel your friend's frustration...but there's solutions available already that you should look into before assuming the developer should have thought those things through.
|
TimMc
Skiddies of Doom
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 23:31:00 -
[148]
As horrible as a disability colourblindness or any disability is, CCP at the end of the day are a capital company - meaning they go where the money is. If enough people with similar disabilities wanted to play eve then I'm sure they would invest in the feature. Most games, however, do not feature many if any disability options.
I'm fairly sure there is some way through graphics drivers or windows to replace colours tho, is it?
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 00:39:00 -
[149]
Originally by: TimMc As horrible as a disability colourblindness or any disability is, CCP at the end of the day are a capital company - meaning they go where the money is. If enough people with similar disabilities wanted to play eve then I'm sure they would invest in the feature. Most games, however, do not feature many if any disability options.
I'm fairly sure there is some way through graphics drivers or windows to replace colours tho, is it?
People seem to think that "online" disabilitys seem to include no legs, lack of pecker, or inability to **** on demand.... (not pointing at you TimMc)...
But yea, ccp's in it for profit, allowing someone to change the default colors on a few items tho (to help capture some of the R/G colorblind market) seems like something that should be easy to do :/..
Graphic Drivers/Windows to do that, not really, But you can filter a lot of it, and shift colors around a lot.. You cant easily shift say, Red to Blue, or Green to Yelow.. (there's a lot of combos people can be color blind to, I just used red/green as it's one of the most common)..
WoW actually has a (I think Unofficial patch) for colorblind people.
I mean, I'll go back to what I said earlier, If it's just a simple color selection change, CCP should do it, the few extra customers they pick up by doing it would probably pay for the effort!
|
ZerKar
Caldari Zen'Tar
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 06:34:00 -
[150]
As has been stated, it is hard to see the Scram effect for everyone and the sound it makes is very subtle. CCP would help us all if it amped the volume on that and gave a little notice saying you are being scrammed for more than just a second.
One of my Mates however is legally blind and he would definately appricate any sort of higher contrast that could be implimented. But he manages to play the game, which is downright amazing in all truth and while he cannot handle combat too well he can do a lot of other things in EvE because it provides for more than just 1 activity. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...!
O.o |
|
Soulspatch
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 07:26:00 -
[151]
My friend and fellow EVE mates wife is 100% colour blind, no colour at all. She is also light sensitive and short sighted. On her CRT she has everything set to large, infact she is classed a legally blind. When I brought my LCD monitor she was excited because she could see sharpness and define objects much more clearly than on her CRT. Might I recommend a good quality LCD monitor. My friend originally brought a 19inch LCD for his wife, but she cannot use it because of flicker and lack of sharpness. I use the Samsung 931 BW 19 inch widescreen and placed side by side with his standard 19 inch the contrast is significant, particularly with colours.
Hope this helps, fly safe.
|
Bentula
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 21:23:00 -
[152]
I think it would generally be a nice idea to allow basic modability of the interface. Nothing like the stuff in wow, but simple things like fonts, fontsizes, colors used, position and size of windows etc. Maybe something like a XML file, doesnt need to have a fancy interface or something.
Imagine gothic fonts for amarr chars and stuff like that , would definitly add some flavour for roleplayers too. And disabled people could use the same mechanic to use colors which actually have contrast for them.
|
Nathan Stahn
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 21:43:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Nathan Stahn on 22/11/2007 21:45:42 Edited by: Nathan Stahn on 22/11/2007 21:44:35 Why don't you and your friend get your eyes fixed. You are probably going to be able to get them fixed before CCP were make the changes.
I just want to point out the game and CCP are not he problem, your broken eyes are the problem.
Do you ***** at the city when you get tickets for running red lights?
|
Deiege
Minmatar 4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 04:07:00 -
[154]
I'm unable to use a keyboard and rely on the Microsoft On-Sreen Keyboard. It works great with EVE in windowed mode, except two things:
- If I get stuck in full-screen mode (for example after losing settings) I can't see the OSK and there's no way to open Settings using the mouse/trackball to switch to windowed mode, it requires hitting Escape. I had a trick to activate the settings window during client start up, before full-screen kicks in, but it's much harder to do with the Trinity client. An clickable settings button somewhere would solve all this.
- The shortcuts involving ctrl-alt-shift-something for some reason can't be activated via the OSK. Ctrl-alt-shift-e and t toggle effects and turrets and are important to reduce cliet-side lag in large battles, but can't be reconfigured from their default key combinations and so can't be toggled at all. Greater flexibility to redefine shortcut combinations would fix this easily.
|
EvilSpork
Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 07:43:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Valron Xizor Man this is a tough one. TBH, I cant see how any game developer can build a game to suit every kind of disability.
on a side note, the no arms analogy is apples and oranges to having trouble distinguishing colors.
on topic: i would be nice to see perhaps some sort of prefs.ini hack to allow us to hack colors of some effects. ie: module activation. if i could make it activate with a white glow or something, maybe it would be easier to see. i have pretty much perfect vision and i have a heck of a time seeing if my stuff is on. but thats beside the point.
as for scrambling NPCs, i dont have my game effects turned on at all so i have no way of seeing the graphic AT ALL. you *MUST* learn enemy ship names for missions. you MUST. learn the npc ship types and kill the threats first.
here's a handy link that explains most ship naming schemes: http://eve-survival.org/shiptypes.html
|
Xzar Fyrarr
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 08:16:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Alrich can you see the effect of warp scramblers?
why dont you just kill all the small ones and be done with it?
the effects is hard to see for everyone and in pve you dont need them. kill all the small things and be able to warp again, tank and dont warp out or kill everything faster than they kill you... that is three ways of doing the thing you tried, all of them easier and your handicap wont matter
I fully agree. In PvE I just assume that the frigs have warp scramblers on. So I will just kill those first with drones and missle swhile turrets focus on bigger targets.
There is always plan B ---> you could of killed the scramblers for him since he was doing the mission wtih you--> to the op.
Or plan C----> kill the named frigs first and/or the one that have scramblers on them....
|
Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 10:32:00 -
[157]
Originally by: spambunker 5) "Game developers can't target every disability..." but they can acknowledge the fact that more than 1 in 10 of their players has this one and it is by far the simplest to design to. The hardware to allow you to play (glasses, orthopedic mouse, special keyboard) are firmly player-side issues, but there isn't anything a player can do about poor color design. The level of garbage rhetoric people invoked on this one was pathetic.
1 out of 10 males has a certain degree of color blindness. I'm one of those, but only to a mild degree. I don't need CCP to make any changes for me. So don't throw 1 out of 10 around as if it's a large amount of people, because of those 1 out of 10, there's probably a large amount that have little or no issues.
For reference, on the color test on page 3 I saw: Left/Right: 25/29 spots/56 spots/spots On the bottom one I see no numbers at all.
In game I use a Domi with sentries and 425mm railguns. I make distance before engaging in missions. I never see the warp scramble effect, because frigs are dead before they're in range to activate their scrambler.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
sukio
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 12:00:00 -
[158]
I say join the club I know people that cannot play eve because of physical handycaps and cannot respond effectivly to pirates in hi sec they were forced to go to a game where they wernt harassed. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP |
Lothros Andastar
Gallente Imperium Forces United Freemen Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 12:20:00 -
[159]
No disrespect but it simply isnt CCP's job to cater to every possible handicap imaginable.
|
sukio
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 13:16:00 -
[160]
I agree there are certain things which a game maker shouldnt be expected to address. I do think that, where reasonable game makers should try to make an effort to make allowances for the impared being able to adjust or modify certain hud colors or text size for instance,, having some visual as well as sound for certain things maby having an icon showing if your ship is webed or scrambled
the ship scanner and targeting layout is quite poor ive even seen people shoot friends that were trying to armor rep them. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP |
|
Kittamaru
Gallente Ceptacemia Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 14:49:00 -
[161]
How would you recommend CCP fix this? Make a Black and White eve? Make an EvE with NO blue or Green?
There is no real way to fix this... you want a fix? Alter the damned overview... CCP gave you the tools to fix it the best they could, now do it.
Scrammed? Shoot the small ships. Better yet, use a mission list to see what, if anything, might scram, and shoot those names.
No offense mate... I hear your plight... but really, adapt. It's what being human is all about.
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 15:50:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Kittamaru How would you recommend CCP fix this? Make a Black and White eve? Make an EvE with NO blue or Green?
There is no real way to fix this... you want a fix? Alter the damned overview... CCP gave you the tools to fix it the best they could, now do it.
Scrammed? Shoot the small ships. Better yet, use a mission list to see what, if anything, might scram, and shoot those names.
No offense mate... I hear your plight... but really, adapt. It's what being human is all about.
Having a INF File where someone can set a config for the colors of effects doesnt seem like a lot to ask for tbh.
Having (as said before, I say agin, and someone else will say after me no dobt) the overview (or a icon on the ship itself) show who's webbing/warpjamming/using EW would instantly Fix this.
|
TimMc
Exanimo Inc
|
Posted - 2007.11.25 20:06:00 -
[163]
Edited by: TimMc on 25/11/2007 20:07:47
Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: TimMc As horrible as a disability colourblindness or any disability is, CCP at the end of the day are a capital company - meaning they go where the money is. If enough people with similar disabilities wanted to play eve then I'm sure they would invest in the feature. Most games, however, do not feature many if any disability options.
I'm fairly sure there is some way through graphics drivers or windows to replace colours tho, is it?
People seem to think that "online" disabilitys seem to include no legs, lack of pecker, or inability to **** on demand.... (not pointing at you TimMc)...
But yea, ccp's in it for profit, allowing someone to change the default colors on a few items tho (to help capture some of the R/G colorblind market) seems like something that should be easy to do :/..
Graphic Drivers/Windows to do that, not really, But you can filter a lot of it, and shift colors around a lot.. You cant easily shift say, Red to Blue, or Green to Yelow.. (there's a lot of combos people can be color blind to, I just used red/green as it's one of the most common)..
WoW actually has a (I think Unofficial patch) for colorblind people.
I mean, I'll go back to what I said earlier, If it's just a simple color selection change, CCP should do it, the few extra customers they pick up by doing it would probably pay for the effort!
My father is colourblind to some shades of brown, so I know a little of where you are coming from. Disabilities that need to be combated on the computer are blindness (impossible to help with Eve), deafness (most people play muted anyway but teamspeak is a problem) and colourblind (the main problem).
Then again, the scrambler effect on npc rats doesn't appear for me alot of the time, and when it does it isn't noticeable easily. So I would just advise your friend to kill the frigate rats.
|
Deiege
Minmatar 4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.12.04 07:10:00 -
[164]
Both things I mentioned on the last page are fixed in Trinity. I assume it was happening anyway, but much thanks either way
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |