Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:21:00 -
[1]
Now that Revelations III is already gleaming in the horizon it made me think about the ships and roles we now have in the game and what we will have after the expansion. Lots of new ships, old roles are being revisited (electronic warfare, covert ops, interdiction) with new T2 ships... and I like it. However there's one shipclass that seriously seems to drag behind: the destroyers.
Let's make a little comparison on shipclasses and roles we currently have and what will have after the patch shall we?
T2 Frigates: Small and nimble ships which come in many flavors and have just as many roles: We have Assault Frigates which are supposed to be better tanked and geared towards more damage than a standard T1 frigate. We also have Interceptors that specialize in tackling and operating in high speeds. Then we have the Covert Ops whose purpose is to gather intel and move around like a ghost. Another flavor of the covert ops class is the Stealth Bomber that can utilize its cloak and heavy damage in a WWII submarine kind of way. Finally Revelations III introduces us Electronic Attack Frigates, the beefed up versions of T1 electronic warfare frigates, acting between the cruiser Recon class and T1 electronic warfare. This makes a total of 5 different roles with one or more versions of the ship per race.
T2 Cruisers: Medium sized ships with lots of potential. Heavy Assault Cruisers have one nasty tank and can deal a substantial amount of DPS, a beefed up version of T1 cruisers aimed towards tanking and damage. Recon Ships specialize in strong electronic warfare and stealthiness, the Combat Recons are more geared towards electronic warfare and damage with dangerous bonuses while the cloaked versions utilize their stealth to pick their fights. Logistics Ships specialize solely in keeping the gang alive and perform in admirably their role. Revelations III also brings us the Heavy Interdictors giving a whole new meaning to heavy tackler. This makes a total of 5 different roles with one or more version of the ship per race.
T2 Battlecruisers: Big tank, plenty of DPS and support for the gang. The beefed up BC versions come in two flavors, Fleet Command for boosting the gang to the max and Field Command for bringing the DPS and tank to the battlefield. Two roles, two ships per race.
T2 Battleships: Tank, damage and stealthiness. No T2 versions previously but Revelations III brings us the missioning T2 version with emphasis on tanking and damage and the Black Ops version that can open jump portals and also gets bonuses to electronic warfare. Two roles, two ships per race.
Finally, it all boils down to:
T2 Destroyers: One ship per race, one role, one purpose: interdiction bubbles. Previously fast and being able to bring a stop to fleeing ship and bring hurt to T2 frigates like Interceptors which fits the Destroyer role, now being nerfed by dropping their maximum speeds effectively making them unable to catch Interceptors in most cases. One and only one role, one ship per race.
My thoughts? Why is the Destroyer class so forgotten and being put down? The T1 version has many pros (and cons as well) and the hull alone makes it viable for several roles. Why hasn't there been implemented more than the Interdictor while Cruiser and Frigate classes are getting more and more roles?
---
|
Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:21:00 -
[2]
Suggestions and ideas
So let's present a few new role ideas shall we? The Black Ops Battleships are being introduced as a new role and shiptype. Could Destroyers fit to into that picture? How about a Black Ops Interdictor - a ship that can use the jump portal and fill the role of an Interdictor. Perhaps even able to use a CovOps Cloak. How about a Black Ops version of the Electronic Attack Ships, once again able to use the jump portal created by Black Ops Battleships and able to use a CovOps Cloak, effective against Frigates making it an intermediate between Recon Cruisers and Covert Ops Frigates that aren't really geared towards an offensive role.
These are just a few ideas to start the discussion. In my honest opinion the game lacks in T2 Destroyers. The other shipclasses have so much more to offer per lvl5 skill - train Frigates to lvl5 and you'll be able to use that in Assault Frigs, Covert Ops, Electronic Attack Frigs, Interceptors and it also acts as a prerequisite for the Cruiser skills with the same opportunities (Cruiser lvl5 as prereq for HACs, Command Ships, Logistics...). What does Destroyers lvl5 give you? Interdictors. End of story.
Couldn't there be a bit more to Destroyers than what there is now? Discuss.
---
|
Sofring Eternus
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 19:57:00 -
[3]
I would love to see a pair of Covops recon destroyers.
One would have the extra bonuses for Covops Cloak and maybe cloaked speed/regular speed.(covert ops/force recon/stealth bomber cross) The other would have the extra bonuses for RoF/Dmg/Opt etc and cloaked speed/regular speed. (combat recon/stealth bomber cross)
They would stand a good chance of being the deadliest of the Covert Ops cloakers, while the Covert Ops frigate would probe down enemies, and the force recon cruiser would disable them with ewar, the covert ops destroyer would be the dps. --- ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ Amarr dont need Grr... and RAWR is definately too much, but some Oomph would be nice. |
Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:15:00 -
[4]
It's possible that the new scripting changes could indirectly make destroyers more important in fleet and gang PvP. |
Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bein Glorious It's possible that the new scripting changes could indirectly make destroyers more important in fleet and gang PvP.
He's not complaining just that they're unimportant, but also that there's only one type of a destroyer, one type of T2 destroyer. If the scripts could make destroyers more important in fleet and gang PvP, then that's hopefully giving them another role. But it would be nice if destroyers had another ship for each race that reflected a new role to fill.
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 20:56:00 -
[6]
I hear you. Frankly People start off the game in a newby frigate, they eventually buy a better frigate and eventually jump to cruiser. Those who happen to train destroyer quickly learn their mistake and move on to cruisers. I suspect 95% of destroyers are actually just used as salvage ships.
You frequently hear of roaming frigate gangs; or cheap t1 cruiser gangs(faggot issue Thoraxes); or in general combat people use battlecruisers and battleships. Nobody really ever goes destroyer.
Now there's an obvious exception to this... there's a glaring use for interdictors out in 0.0 but... in empire... interdictors are suicide ships with absolutely no use.
SO lets give the Hull class some love shall we? You suggest "Black Ops Interdictor" an obviously on the side of the black ops stealth guys.
Now if you read the whole issues with the black ops jump portal... you can't really jump many cruisers at all. Infact I'd moreso expect any such real jump groups to be mostly frigates and such.
Now lets take a look at the description of a destroyer. Quote: Anti-frigate gunboats. The middle ground between a frigate and a cruiser.
They are particularly anti-frigate. On the otherhand we are introducing a ship which is in a sense very likely to bring many frigate friends along.
So to my suggestion: Take the Helios for example. It is the cov-ops ship, meant for probe scanning out ships very quickly and than under cov-ops cloak warp to and check out what's up. Lets grab the destroyer, catalyst for example, and build it into an anti-stealth bomber black ops sort of ship. Capable of doing very much what the Helios can do except also once friends have arrived... you can decloak and begin the barrage against the stealth bombers and cov-op ships.
Now put it this way... someone is in a 0.0 system, plops down their covert cyno field, the black op links up and sends everyone there and jumps in behind him. Local will be seeing them. They may not have a cyno lighting them up like a beacon(not sure if this is actually a fact) but ship scanners will know exactly what has just arrived and probes will find them quick. So in essence all that I propose is simply a cov-op ship which is designed to fight in a role. I also suggest this destroyer gets a signature radius bonus. Sort of like the Halo implants. Except making it tiny tiny. So that could be a very effective way of making the ship live through having stealth bombers hitting it with cruise missles. Instead of uncloak, they lock on, alpha strike and pop.
|
Alz Shado
Ever Flow DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 21:42:00 -
[7]
Too many Covops ships. What's the best thing for a T2 Destroyer? Anti-Covops! Call it the Glastnost, and give it a module that elimiantes cloaking devices in a 50km bubble around the ship (gate cloaks are not affected).
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 22:11:00 -
[8]
Give each DD a couple more slots, get rid of that firing penalty, give a tracking boost, and give em twice as much tank. Any T2 frig should have to think twice before dealing with a destroyer, right now theyÆre not a threat, they are not an anti frigate platform. Plus, if this were done it would open up more PVP space for newer players.
I know this is not the OPÆs point, to have yet another T2 ship, but we have tons of T2 ships. New players need better toys too.
-AS
The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link) |
Yarry McYaryar
Caldari Lords of Maelstrom Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 01:36:00 -
[9]
reason the OP was so cloak based was because agony unlased favour useing clokas ALL THE BLOODY TIME lol its there tactics, always have a stealth bomber or 2 clokaed outside, so ofcourse they r gunna want more covops stuff to play with
but i do agree, more t1 or t2 destroyers, i love destroyers, i want them! ------------------------------------------------ my main is Packa
|
Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 12:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy Give each DD a couple more slots, get rid of that firing penalty, give a tracking boost, and give em twice as much tank. Any T2 frig should have to think twice before dealing with a destroyer, right now they’re not a threat, they are not an anti frigate platform. Plus, if this were done it would open up more PVP space for newer players.
I know this is not the OP’s point, to have yet another T2 ship, but we have tons of T2 ships. New players need better toys too.
It is an interesting idea. Dessies would become quite some beasts DPS wise. However destroyers still suffer from their sig radius so it probably wouldn't make them too overpowered.
Originally by: Alz Shado Too many Covops ships. What's the best thing for a T2 Destroyer? Anti-Covops! Call it the Glastnost, and give it a module that elimiantes cloaking devices in a 50km bubble around the ship (gate cloaks are not affected).
Wouldn't that be a bit too much? Even warp bubbles can't do 50km.
Originally by: Yarry McYaryar reason the OP was so cloak based was because agony unlased favour useing clokas ALL THE BLOODY TIME lol its there tactics, always have a stealth bomber or 2 clokaed outside, so ofcourse they r gunna want more covops stuff to play with
but i do agree, more t1 or t2 destroyers, i love destroyers, i want them!
Hey, that was just a suggestion . Suggestions for different roles are very welcome.
---
|
|
Hsu Li
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 12:50:00 -
[11]
T2 assault destroyer. That would be awesome. Something like small command ship.
|
Kesro
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 16:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hsu Li T2 assault destroyer. That would be awesome. Something like small command ship.
Hmm that could be interesting. Able to run a single Warfare link module and have an assault-frigate like tank. Think of it like the AF version of a desroyer where the interdictor is the Inty version of a destroyer.
As for destroyers being a "mistake" to fly, the poster clearly hasnt encountered an AGONY gang of destroyers.
|
Jallem Sims
Minmatar Exploring Blind
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 16:52:00 -
[13]
its a great idea....
-destroyers anti-cloaker -assult destroyer -mini command ship
sad if the interdictor gets nerf'd.... small ships seem such a good class to concentrate on. This allows new player to get specialised and get into 0.0 quicker.
but, again this seems to be a common topic.... why don't the devs do something about it? or are they considering it?
|
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.21 17:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jallem Sims its a great idea....
-destroyers anti-cloaker -assult destroyer -mini command ship
I agree. Some good ideas to start out exploring anyway. Particularly, I favor mini command ship or anti-cloaker over assault destroyer. An assault destroyer would need to be implimented carefully in a way that doesn't make AFs useless to fly other than the difference in sig radius and slight difference in speed.
Mini command ship I'm not sure would ever happen since its the idea that battlecruisers and command ships are used to give bonuses with command links.
Anti-cloakers on the other hand would be the most appealing of the choices to CCP in my opinion. They've stated that they don't like the way cloaking works now with no possible way to find someone, and a T2 (or even tier 2 as we have tier 2 battlecruisers) would be a nice addition. A destroyer with slightly less firepower but a few more mids and the bonus in cpu reduction to use (name of anti-cloak probe launcher) to launch probes (modify range, strength, and scan time as needed for necessary balancing) that can detect a cloaked ship with a bit inaccuracy but at least get you on grid with the person to attempt to decloak him.
Anti-cloaking sphere is another option too though doesn't solve the safespot and cloak for hours issue.
Originally by: Jallem Sims why don't the devs do something about it? or are they considering it?
Because they're working on many more things that have a higher priority than this. Doubt they've considered working more with destroyers but perhaps if we can get the attention of people like CCP Zulupark and CCP Nozh with threads such as these then it might be put on the backburner.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Teldar Orion
|
Posted - 2007.11.24 09:53:00 -
[15]
You could try thinking out of the box a bit. -"Vampire" A Destroyer that has bonuses to fit a large number of (Small)energy vampires, used to disable larger ships, or a large number of small ones, while using that energy for a good tank, offset would be a very low number of turrets/launchers. -"Wild Weasel" Has bonuses to projected ECCM and Anti-missile countermeasures. Used to guard larger ships. -"AWACS" bonuses to Remote sensor boosters, target painters, and may fit a single Gang Assist mod. Command and Control for small, mobile gangs. -"Torpedo Bomber" May fit 2 Torpedo bays. Good for killing larger ships.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |