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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 12:59:00 -
[1]
At the moment I am still slightly in shock, so I apologise if this is not formal enough writing. Around 10 miniutes ago my Charon Freighter was suicide ganked en route to the last part highsec I can enter, it was carry approximatly 1.7B worth of materials. It isn't the end of the IPO at all, but I have lost quite a lot of materials and my logistics part of the operation to them. Lesson learned, even when watching Eve on autopilot the game will still find way's to screw you over. Plan is to now salvage what I can from this and hire couriers to move thing's for me and let the POS run to build up more reserves, I will post more when I have had a few cup's of tea and a nap, it just feels unreal. More to follow later.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:07:00 -
[2]
I know one or two good couriers you might consider hiring. In lieu of that, perhaps you might consider using a scout when hauling large quantities of materials, even in high sec? My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:10:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I know one or two good couriers you might consider hiring. In lieu of that, perhaps you might consider using a scout when hauling large quantities of materials, even in high sec?
My main was scouting, this happened during the part where the freighter jumps through, starts warping and scout approaches to web, they warped in a moment after the freighter started allighning, scrambled and that was the end of it realy, logged both my charecters out when I realised it was going to pop. Just checked my freighter pilot, has the insurance money.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:17:00 -
[4]
Sorry for your lost. BSAC almost lost an empty Charon Freighter in high-sec Empire in route to its sales destination. I couldnĘt believe it my self; never thought an empty Freighter would be attack just for fun. While the attacking battleship force lost all their ships, they learned how many battleships would take next time.
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:17:00 -
[5]
Ok, have had 2 cups of tea and a small glass of wine, here are the three options I have in front of me. 1) Sell more of my personal shares to replace it 2) Sell the Rorqual and rely purely on lowsec couriers 3) Struggle onwards regardless I am leaning toward's option 2 myself, it reduce's my time input and tbh right about now I am loathing the cruel parts of Eve. The tower's are all there, I have a delivery of fuel I need to pay for on Friday and material's to ship in, the Rorqual is rigged for cargo transportation so should be around 2B worth. Please comment on the options and I will look back in a few hours when I can steel myself to log back in again, Stirling out.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:19:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 21/11/2007 13:25:23 Sounds like a log-on trap
I'm curious, what # of ships with what sort of weapons were the assailants using?
Also, regarding options, #2 is going to be quite expensive in the long run. Not many people will want to do the job for you given that it's now known to be a risk.
A future possiblity might be to use a jump freighter - this would allow you to vary the route you take into low sec. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
John Newport
Caldari Newport Family Trust Fund
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:21:00 -
[7]
Hello Stirling,
Sorry to hear this.
As an investor in you, I have the fullest trust in you that you can recouperate from this loss.
I for one will keep supporting your endeavours as it was a solid plan you presented. Like you said, get some tea and a nap. Inform us when you have made an inventory of the effects of this on your businesss.
With sympathy,
John Newport Smalltime Investor
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:30:00 -
[8]
Ouch sorry for your loss there m8! Where did you get ganked?
Corporation Website
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Ricdic's Hoe
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:33:00 -
[9]
Umm, so you were suicide ganked in lowsec I assume? If so why do you mention "afk on autopilot"? If the above 2 points are correct then DUDE. AFK in lowsec....
Anyway you said they warped in as you entered the system after your scout gave the all clear. What kind of all-clear was it? Did you actually see pilots in local and disregard as they weren't at the gate? Were they pirates?
Your option depends on your answer to the above questions.
- If you were suicide ganked in empire then sorry for your loss and do #2 - If you were ganked in lowsec whilst on autopilot then you need to wake up and pay for it out of your personal wallet due to stupidity - If you were ganked in lowsec due to poor scouting performance (correctly checking local and seeing pirates but jumping in anyway) then you should also do #3 and work your ass off to recover from your mistake. - If it was non pirates (ie non detectable forces) that killed you in lowsec then take option #2
Option 1 should not be taken under any circumstances. In all but the first and last example above you were at fault. If either of the "you at fault" cases are correct then you need to work your ass off to recover, don't come asking for more money because you lost the first lot.
But this whole thing is retracted if points #1 or #4 occured. Sorry for the hostility but if you have made the mistakes above, then you need a cruel hard reality check.
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Peanut Swsh
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:39:00 -
[10]
considering he was suicide ganked... doesn't that kind of imply that it was in high-sec? unless the pirates ganked him in low-sec with frigates or some other rubbish that couldn't tank gate guns, or they all selfdestructed after killing the freighter.
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Ricdic's Hoe
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:46:00 -
[11]
Probably, I just wanted clarity as he runs a lowsec operation and it was a little hazy what he said regarding the location of the gank. Also, still using a webber scout in empire? If so well it was well planned and as I said above everything else would be retracted
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 13:48:00 -
[12]
My comment on "even when on autopilot" is to when I assumed this thing happened to everyone else. I was in 0.5 security at the time, there was noone on the gate when I jumped the freighter in. In regards to working my ass off, I allready am making this work, I allready have everything tied up in this venture, no combat ships no miners nothing. I haven't taken a look at the killmail yet but there were several Myrmidons and Drakes there. Option 2 looks the most realistic, the option of working my ass off is as I said, impossible without liquidating the entire operation and starting again. From memory, I have enough materials in reserve to last around 5 days worth of production, this represents somewhere between 15-20% of the worth at a rough guess, I will do some statistics later. It won't affect the productive output per say, but the asset value of the corp has gone down, the towers will still run at the current 57.6k output per day just require much more micromanagement to make up for the loss of material resevoirs. It did come accross as hostile Ric but no offence taken, if I can get the Ferrogel being produced sold quickly I can pay for the fuel on Friday. The courier I do it with also delivers to lowsec so I will send him a word later if he is interested in a contract to supply both fuel and materials.
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Shuan Jedai
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:22:00 -
[13]
Props for quick reporting though.
I think all your investors appreciate that, even if the news was bad.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:25:00 -
[14]
No probs then. As I said if it were in empire most of my points were void. The only recommendation I would have is not to carry so much in your hold next time (ie enough to make them want to risk suicide ganking you). Logistics may be tougher but it's far better than the alternative you are now faced with.
Good luck with the restoration
WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:00:00 -
[15]
Sounds like an assassination, not a random gank. You might want to provide more information (involved parties, ships they used, system it happened) for scientific purposes, if not for anything else.
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Sounds like an assassination, not a random gank. You might want to provide more information (involved parties, ships they used, system it happened) for scientific purposes, if not for anything else.
Yea... smell like an assassination conisdering you were only carrying 1.7B in mins.
Send me the kill mail in game if you please. I have use for a crew who specialise in taking down freighters in high sec.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
May Shiko
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: May Shiko on 21/11/2007 15:14:08 I'm sorry to hear of the loss.
If you want, feel free to get in touch with me in game, I might be able to arrange interim hauling at little to no cost as a favor until you get back onto your feet.
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:58:00 -
[18]
Thankyou for the kind words, they are much appreciated. After seeing the thought's of an assasination this (in my books) would take the attacks on this enterprise to 2. The first one was was when I first made the business plan and was in the process of selling shares and buying materials - within a day of the plan going up Dysprosium prices doubled. If this was an assasination then running back through the scenario in my mind I painted a large bullseye on my back and seemed to not notice. This is because I used my main to fire up cyno fields when moving things around, if someone put 2+2 together after seing the plan then it would be obvious I would have a freighter loaded with goodies in the area at some point, figure out what time I come on and wait. Because of this realisation I am going to have to cut back on the accuracy of my future report's/idea's to preserve the continuation of this. I had hoped to be transparent but it seem's to have backfired. I am not doing a Wylker and cutting off all communication, but not saying as much and keeping my mouth shut unless absolutly nessacary. Given how an above poster said they "had a use for a corp specalising in high sec freighter ganking" or words to that effect I am going to take the prudent course and keep the specifics of the killmail to myself, I hope people can follow my reasoning for being wary at this point. I have lost a few cyno generating ships in lowsec, so if a corp popped me a few times and noticed I kept coming back I suppose in the long run it's like being surprised you have lung cancer after smoking 20 a day..... Option 2 has been selected, if anyone is interested in a Rorqual rigged for transport evemail this charecter please, it will be able to carry around 150km3 after the patch and the perfect replacement for carrier logistics. Stirling out, I will be online later to sort things out, but till then it's the forums every now and then (nap was good and I have a clear mind on what to do).
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:12:00 -
[19]
I definitely agree that you should avoid mentioning the details of the kill to the general public.
It's quite disappointing that this happened, but I really doubt it was an assassination. It seems much more likely that this was just bad luck. The market manipulation was bound to happen due to lots of posts on these forums recently about those markets and the potential to exploit them.
I hope you're able to rebound and move forward.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Kaaii
Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kaaii on 21/11/2007 16:21:59 Edited by: Kaaii on 21/11/2007 16:20:49
Ive been wondering if it isn't time to put together a freighter escort service.
Given the free hand ccp has given to suicides for profit, and the apparent lack of real consequences for said actions, is it ripe for player made counter measures?
I'm talking about "counter-suicide" opts. Heavily skilled, command ship pilots, logistic ships with max repair/log drone skills. Could this be the answer to bleed the gankers wallets? I read just today someone lost a EMPTY freighter, again, probably just to get the numbers dialed in on what it would take to take down high sec ships. Given that it was empty, there were no prizes to collect, they lost money. So this would mean that ganking supports even deep pocketed groups, for future return on thier "investment".
This is not a comment on the state of freighter opts in empire, or whether its right or wrong for these folks, I have my opinions but they don't change the facts. Hauling is getting progressively more dangerous to a point of crippling a ship class to a whole. If CCP wants to give the fox's the keys to the hen house, fine. Lets find a way to make a strong hen house.
Would increasing support in the forms of command ship bonuses, gang mods, logistic ships, drones, "something else" be worth all the time? Would people pay for the absolute security (if there is such a thing) to have a FULL freighter get from point A to point B, without having an alt brigade take there wares for "free".
Is it even possible to fit a gang out to counter a 20 BS-insured-ccp condoned-alpha strike? If so, would there be a use in "bait" tactics, bringing a freigther into harms way, just to bust the wallets of those trying?
A reversal of fortune would go a long way to making these guys think, is it solo, or is it ganged.....or would they even care....?
/edit - will jump freighters be the answer? cyno alt in range at all times, someone opens up, jump?
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Stirling Finloth on 21/11/2007 16:25:43 Edited by: Stirling Finloth on 21/11/2007 16:24:25 Kaii, completly agree about the inbalances. Only think I would like to add is maybe one or two hislots to freighters and give it a capital warp stabaliser or something, ridiculous that what can immobolise anything from a pod to a titan exists in a small midslot module, at least give freighter's the OPTION of excaping. I say make it a hislot because this bypasses mids for shield tanking and lows for armor tanking or expanders..... damn it was so much better when I could zip around in my iteron M5 with 5 WCS on it Oh, and jump drives are immobolised by warp scramblers/distruptors afaik, so no JF are not the answer in this case.
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Kaaii
Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:28:00 -
[22]
A new skill/module tree (like we need another skill to train )
Remote warp core stab Logistical ships only 30km range immunity to warp scram effects..
?
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kaaii
A new skill/module tree (like we need another skill to train )
Remote warp core stab Logistical ships only 30km range immunity to warp scram effects..
?
I like this idea. My main gripe with the webbing trick is that my webbers only have a range of 10km and the ships could jump into a gate anywhere within 30km of each other, so maybe a tentative upgrade to 32km to ensure possible range when doing this?
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Ricdic's Hoe
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kaaii
Would increasing support in the forms of command ship bonuses, gang mods, logistic ships, drones, "something else" be worth all the time? Would people pay for the absolute security (if there is such a thing) to have a FULL freighter get from point A to point B, without having an alt brigade take there wares for "free".
The 50-500m you spend making that move would be better saved by the freighter pilot making 2 afk trips instead of 1, or 3 afk trips instead of 1 depending on the value of his cargo.
Really, it's AFK. Who cares how long it takes, you go to bed whilst you are hauling, it doesn't matter. As long as your cargo value isn't worth suiciding over, then you are safe.
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe The 50-500m you spend making that move would be better saved by the freighter pilot making 2 afk trips instead of 1, or 3 afk trips instead of 1 depending on the value of his cargo.
Really, it's AFK. Who cares how long it takes, you go to bed whilst you are hauling, it doesn't matter. As long as your cargo value isn't worth suiciding over, then you are safe.
Originally by: Block Ukx Sorry for your lost. BSAC almost lost an empty Charon Freighter in high-sec Empire in route to its sales destination. I couldnĘt believe it my self; never thought an empty Freighter would be attack just for fun. While the attacking battleship force lost all their ships, they learned how many battleships would take next time.
Unfortunalty Freighter ganking (after glancing over crime+punishment) seems to be the challenge of the month for pirates hoping to stretch their Epeens, dosen't matter if it's full or not because a freighters a freighter.
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Ricdic's Hoe
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:53:00 -
[26]
Yeh but we can't call 1 loss out of 1000 freighters in a day a change in market trend.
It's like saying, "I saw a thorax mining yesterday so clearly thorax is the new ship of the month"
So someone lost an empty freighter. I don't call that conclusive.
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Yeh but we can't call 1 loss out of 1000 freighters in a day a change in market trend.
It's like saying, "I saw a thorax mining yesterday so clearly thorax is the new ship of the month"
So someone lost an empty freighter. I don't call that conclusive.
No, but I am just saying that proportionaly freighter ganking seems to be on the rise, I barely even heard of them up to around 6-8 months ago and then it has become an uncommon occurance, I pass freighter wreks in Jita and it's surrounding area almost every other day. And quick bit of info - for a brief perioid my old corp's thing of the month was to mine Omber in lowsec in cruisers - mine being an Osprey and a Thorax!
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2007.11.21 17:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Stirling Finloth I pass freighter wreks in Jita and it's surrounding area almost every other day.
Errm, I don't think I have ever passed one. If they are so prominent then maybe rather than t2 freighter construction you should start a busines in freighter salvaging? I imagine the crap they drop wouldn't be too bad.
WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.21 17:57:00 -
[29]
Allrighty, logging in now. For the record if it weren't for the fact this is an IPO, I would have unanchored everything and set BS to 5 and taken a few weeks off, so that's my dedication to you all Plan is to get what materials I do have into the towers and check on them daily, the Rorqual will go on contracts and advertised in the WTS forums. I exagerated slightly on the every other day, but they do appear much more now than they did before (last one I saw was on Sunday). Well, the die is cast so they say, it's the sucess of this thing or bust.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.21 22:49:00 -
[30]
Quote: Given that it was empty, there were no prizes to collect, they lost money.
If they use T1 ships and insurance, they lose very little.
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