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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 01:23:00 -
[31]
The suicide gank doesn't resemble the pattern of an assassination even though it's not out of the question.
A lot of suicide gankers target people on autopilot. However, when someone is wtz and they are unable to get a scan in time combined with boredom equals a suicide gank.
It's definately not a log in trap as someone suggested as the gang would have been aligned off grid ready to jump to the gate. A log in trap would work as the freighter would warp off prior to enough ppl logging-in in time.
One suggestion I do not like is concealing the freighter kill from investors. They should be made aware of what has happend but there's no need to release the km. Organised suicide gankers have been killing freighters for a long time so this is not news.
Various tactics and counter-measures are discussed frequently on C&P.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Devian 666 It's definately not a log in trap as someone suggested as the gang would have been aligned off grid ready to jump to the gate. A log in trap would work as the freighter would warp off prior to enough ppl logging-in in time.
People can log on in less than 30 seconds. It takes a freighter (especially a Charon, the slowest and least agile type) almost 30 seconds to accelerate to warp. Furthermore, there's a chance that whoever did this had noticed a pattern in the freighter pilot's movements, allowing them to to precisely co-ordinate an attack and give the order to log on as the freighter was jumping out of the previous system (with a cloaked accomplice at the gate, perhaps). My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:05:00 -
[33]
The Rorqual is now on the market, see here. After realising the freighter was carrying fuel I have been hastily loading enriched uranium and heavy water that had run out to reonline the POS. Unfortunatly SMASH decided to take offence at offlined POS..... and popped the reactors on one POS, not the silo's but the reactors, have paid for those to be repaced, approx 25M worth. Production has now resumed, that is all for now.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 22:06:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Devian 666 on 22/11/2007 22:14:24
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Devian 666 It's definately not a log in trap as someone suggested as the gang would have been aligned off grid ready to jump to the gate. A log in trap would work as the freighter would warp off prior to enough ppl logging-in in time.
People can log on in less than 30 seconds. It takes a freighter (especially a Charon, the slowest and least agile type) almost 30 seconds to accelerate to warp. Furthermore, there's a chance that whoever did this had noticed a pattern in the freighter pilot's movements, allowing them to to precisely co-ordinate an attack and give the order to log on as the freighter was jumping out of the previous system (with a cloaked accomplice at the gate, perhaps).
A gank squad all trying to load the same grid depends on the server and each individual computer. The time delays can easily be enough to lose a kill. Given that your proposed technique is way too unreliable and unnecessary in high sec space I doubt that it would be used. You should also note the OP where he would lock and web the freighter to throw it into warp. There's not enough of a time window to log in and scram.
Very easy to be aligned just off grid as the scout is only going to visually look for a gank squad on the gate.
As you say it is very likely that there would be one or more cloaked ships.
E: You are also correct that they would have noticed a pattern of movement and it would have been on comms something like "There's a freighter jumping through the gate."
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:15:00 -
[35]
I am now SERIOUSLY hating Eve, the ship I use to fuel POS from the station was rammed off while undocking and popped, before I had finished undocking, they were bloody neutrals! Casualties were my ship and 12k of Ferrogel as well as my ego and good mood.....
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kirjava I am now SERIOUSLY hating Eve, the ship I use to fuel POS from the station was rammed off while undocking and popped, before I had finished undocking, they were bloody neutrals! Casualties were my ship and 12k of Ferrogel as well as my ego and good mood.....
IMO there is NO such thing as a neutral in low sec. There are only known hostiles, potential hostiles, and confirmed allies.
--
I have to ask, are you using a Corp Hanger Array at the POS, or is everything thats not actually in the tower or a silo, stored at the station? --
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:28:00 -
[37]
In the station, I thought I would be putting all my eggs in one basket if a gang of bored dread pilots came in and wtfpwned my POS's. Like they say, if you realy want them gone nothing but another capfleet is realy going to stop it.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kirjava In the station, I thought I would be putting all my eggs in one basket if a gang of bored dread pilots came in and wtfpwned my POS's. Like they say, if you realy want them gone nothing but another capfleet is realy going to stop it.
I dont fault that logic at all.
Something I have done in the past, is to have a few GSC's anchored around the system, with some POS fuel, reactions and moon minerals. I did this so those times when I need to get some refueling done, and the station is camped I could at least put a bandaid over the situation until those campers logged or moved on. Just an idea. --
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Treelox Just an idea.
Interesting, I will look into this. This is certainly turning into quite a challenge though that's for sure.
Originally by: N1fty So what your really trying to get at is that the universe is in fact Emo?
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Tatania Apparition
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Posted - 2007.11.23 19:21:00 -
[40]
Letting a POS go offline and then undocking without checking what's outside first?
Sounds like you're a little to careless for lowsec there.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 20:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tatania Apparition Letting a POS go offline and then undocking without checking what's outside first?
Sounds like you're a little to careless for lowsec there.
As per the first post, I lost my freighter to a suicide gank, amongst its cargo was fuel for these towers, hence them going offline without fuel. Beleive me trying to keep 12 POS running with only a mammoth and limited funds is not easy. Incidentaly, how can one check what is outside a station before undocking, is there some way to see the outside of the station befor hitting the undock button that I have missed?
Originally by: N1fty So what your really trying to get at is that the universe is in fact Emo?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 21:18:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 23/11/2007 21:18:11 Well, you have two options, both of which are arduous:
1. Keep a scout undocked & cloaked so you can see who's there. 2. Wait until local is empty.
As you've already been able to arrange a scout, I suggest #1. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Tatania Apparition
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Posted - 2007.11.23 21:27:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kirjava
Originally by: Tatania Apparition Letting a POS go offline and then undocking without checking what's outside first?
Sounds like you're a little to careless for lowsec there.
As per the first post, I lost my freighter to a suicide gank, amongst its cargo was fuel for these towers, hence them going offline without fuel. Beleive me trying to keep 12 POS running with only a mammoth and limited funds is not easy. Incidentaly, how can one check what is outside a station before undocking, is there some way to see the outside of the station befor hitting the undock button that I have missed?
The Freighter was unfortunate, pretty much unavoidable. Those things are getting more popular lately.
You got a lot of POSs running, but you shouldn't wait until the last minute to get them fuel, either. Even just having a stash in system like was suggested earlier. I would be saying "oops, one hour of fuel left in here, better go get more." Should have some ready in-system waiting to be put in when it gets to roughly 25% levels as a precaution. You did the right thing and replaced the lost structures out of pocket, though. Hopefully a lesson learned there.
As for seeing what's outside of the station, spend the extra 30 seconds to jump in a shuttle and take a peek outside. Then it's just another quick 30 seconds once you get back in to reship. Personally, I'd rather lose a minute than all my cargo. Sure there's a chance someone will pop in in 30 seconds, but at least you did what you could to be secure.
Also, dunno what the agents are like in your system, but if you're in one with a popular or high level agent, move. Those agent stations are the ones most likely to get camped. Find a little used station in system, like a CONCORD one for example, and base out of there.
Don't mean to bust your balls, but I can see your frustration building for sure, and when that happens things tend to go wrong and avoidable mistakes start being made. Take a little step back, get composed, focused, and do what's necessary to increase your level of security. You can lose a lot by being mad and doing things in a huff in the blink of an eye.
Also, see if there's a regional intel channel. Set standings to everyone. If there's a neutral in system, treat it as red. Check out their corp and alliance description. Are they an industrial corp? Do they have a claim to piracy? This will help to assess risk by a quick glance at Local.
Be composed and focused, even when things get rough.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 22:11:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kirjava on 23/11/2007 22:12:35 Yes Tat you are right, I have been on edge since the freighter went down. The amount it was carrying upon calculating it up was closer to 2B than the 1.7B initial estimate. Given how money is a concern at the moment I suppose I am over angsting over the problem.
Originally by: N1fty So what your really trying to get at is that the universe is in fact Emo?
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Calgorac
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.24 03:51:00 -
[45]
ttt
Latest News |
Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.28 17:43:00 -
[46]
Okay, a few things. Firstly, I have the Rorq sold (well it's up on contracts as someone wants it as said in forums). This is getting me 1.85B to spend on fuel and materials. Due to the time it took to sell I am afraid that some towers haven't been at full capacity and hence cannot pay out the full dividend. Two options I present before you (my sincere apologies at this, there wasn't enough materials to last a full day only 17 hours, this has been worked up to 25 by reinvesting but I think you see where I am going with this) are as follows. Pay 1 week's worth of Dividends, around a 4.5% return for the week starting this Friday. Put the entire schedule back another week and pay out 2 weeks worth, note after the 1st week of 4.5% it would return to 9%. Well I hope that is in order, now in the process of moving kit around to continue. Finloth out.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.11.28 18:39:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Calgorac ttt
I see this idiocy in a lot of threads now.
What the hell does it mean? _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Madd Bomber
ADAMA Corps
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Posted - 2007.11.28 18:59:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Madd Bomber on 28/11/2007 18:59:35
Originally by: Stirling Finloth Okay, a few things. Pay 1 week's worth of Dividends, around a 4.5% return for the week starting this Friday. Put the entire schedule back another week and pay out 2 weeks worth, note after the 1st week of 4.5% it would return to 9%.
Here is 500 shares worth of opinion.
I don't understand how either option affects the bottom line. It looks like the payout would be the same long term for both?
Since I don't understand the effects of the two options, here are my priorities.
First, I want the largest long term bottom line. The most ISK and I don't mind waiting a bit longer if that means getting more ISK / time.
Second, I would prefer a stable venture over a premature dividend.
I hope those two priorities is enough for you to derive what option I would pick.
Things are looking good, thank you for your hard work Stirling Finloth.
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Richard Kitan
United Space Republic Research
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Posted - 2007.11.28 19:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Originally by: Calgorac ttt
I see this idiocy in a lot of threads now.
What the hell does it mean?
To The Top
(ie: bump) --
Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff |
Madd Bomber
ADAMA Corps
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Posted - 2007.11.28 19:03:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Madd Bomber on 28/11/2007 19:06:11 Edited by: Madd Bomber on 28/11/2007 19:03:45
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Originally by: Calgorac ttt
I see this idiocy in a lot of threads now.
What the hell does it mean?
Thought That Too
I prefer a QFT (quoted for truth), of course you would quote the person; because there are a few other uses of TTT I think.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.28 23:55:00 -
[51]
I'll go for the delayed, larger dividend if that makes your life easier. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Shae Laurel
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Posted - 2007.11.29 06:51:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Madd Bomber Edited by: Madd Bomber on 28/11/2007 18:59:35
Originally by: Stirling Finloth Okay, a few things. Pay 1 week's worth of Dividends, around a 4.5% return for the week starting this Friday. Put the entire schedule back another week and pay out 2 weeks worth, note after the 1st week of 4.5% it would return to 9%.
Here is 500 shares worth of opinion.
I don't understand how either option affects the bottom line. It looks like the payout would be the same long term for both?
Since I don't understand the effects of the two options, here are my priorities.
First, I want the largest long term bottom line. The most ISK and I don't mind waiting a bit longer if that means getting more ISK / time.
Second, I would prefer a stable venture over a premature dividend.
I hope those two priorities is enough for you to derive what option I would pick.
Things are looking good, thank you for your hard work Stirling Finloth.
I agree with Madd Bomber here. Rather a stable operation than an unstable one that could pop any moment.
As long as you keep what is promissed dividends stated in the IPO, when I dont care much about it being pushed a few weeks, as long as the overdue dividends will be paid out at some point. /Shae
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.11.29 07:23:00 -
[53]
I have no concerns if you need to push back the dividend schedule a week or two, to make the business as a whole stable for the long run.
I do ask though that you keep us in the loop during that time, and not just leave us hanging till the next dividend becomes due.
I might even suggest that you start a new thread with the title of the thread about the dividends being pushed back. The the text of the post about the reasoning behind it. I suggest this because there are plenty of people who will miss this conversation, and come running to the forums when they think the dividends were due.
--
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Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.29 08:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Treelox I have no concerns if you need to push back the dividend schedule a week or two, to make the business as a whole stable for the long run.
I do ask though that you keep us in the loop during that time, and not just leave us hanging till the next dividend becomes due.
I might even suggest that you start a new thread with the title of the thread about the dividends being pushed back. The the text of the post about the reasoning behind it. I suggest this because there are plenty of people who will miss this conversation, and come running to the forums when they think the dividends were due.
Understood, I will start a new topic shortly. Looks like the prefference is for the schedule to be pushed back by a week from friday and a 2 week payment starting on December 21st. Finloth.
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Confuzer
PBA Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:31:00 -
[55]
Man my condolances... all that work go to waste.
I don't understand this type of ganking isn't nerved in a patch allready, the guys from Eve seem oblivious for it.
Why do they get insurance back when they gank in highsec? When I rub a bank, and the police wrecks my car, can I get the repairs from insurance?
I also suggest a giant cutdown on sec standings... just do a -5 or something so they can't enter 0.5 soonish after a gank. This way you don't stop ganks, but make it much more unatractive and the people who WORK their ass of in game are a little saver and won't quit Eve so easily. If I get ganked e.g. with a few billion, I see ALOT of time wasted for nothing.
Or another option: Insure cargo just like insuring ships (and then only pay back x% of the destroyed cargo, otherwise you have a nice exploit ^^) ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.11.29 12:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Confuzer I don't understand this type of ganking isn't nerved in a patch allready, the guys from Eve seem oblivious for it.
It doesn't need a "fix" if there's nothing wrong with it.
Originally by: Confuzer Why do they get insurance back when they gank in highsec? When I rub a bank, and the police wrecks my car, can I get the repairs from insurance?
EVE isn't designed to mimic RL. You pay for insurance, you get insurance.
Originally by: Confuzer I also suggest a giant cutdown on sec standings... just do a -5 or something so they can't enter 0.5 soonish after a gank. This way you don't stop ganks, but make it much more unatractive and the people who WORK their ass of in game are a little saver and won't quit Eve so easily. If I get ganked e.g. with a few billion, I see ALOT of time wasted for nothing.
It's up to people to protect themselves in EVE, even in high sec. If you're carrying billions worth of cargo in a shuttle or AFKing about with such high value goods, then you deserve to lose what you do if you do. If you undock, you're a legal target. It's that simple. Be it 0.1 or 1.0, it's up to you to protect yourself and your assets. That means picking the right ship for the job, taking necessary precautions, and if you're carrying billions in a Freighter, get some friends to come along and run remote armor/shield repairers. It's not the epitome of fun, but then again neither is trying to recover billions in a loss that could be avoided.
Originally by: Confuzer Or another option: Insure cargo just like insuring ships (and then only pay back x% of the destroyed cargo, otherwise you have a nice exploit ^^)
If your cargo isn't valuable enough to you to take all necessary precautions for it's safety, why should the developers have to give you anything for it's loss? _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Moloc
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.29 14:09:00 -
[57]
There was something familiar to me when reading this post just now..... And then it struck.
This freighter was killed in lowsec (0.3) not highsec as Stirling maintains. I would link you to the mail but it's against the rules of the forum. For the life of me I couldn't work out what a freighter loaded with POS products was doing 2 jumps from SMASHKill 0.0 space un-escorted. It appears he had a condor webber, killed 4 minutes prior to the Charon. (Huginn is seriously the best for webbing, don't cheap out - you don't even need to approach, if you are on the gate, you are in range with lvl 4 guaranteed). Time of death, 2007-11-21 12:52:00.
Originally by: Stirling Finloth I was in 0.5 security at the time, there was noone on the gate when I jumped the freighter in.
So that is a lie. You were in 0.3, I wasn't there so I make no claims as to what was on the gate. Check the SMASH or R0adkill Killboards for the mail.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.29 14:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Moloc The lack of Concord may be the first hint, and that the killmail had 2 HACs and 2 Tier BCs and your webber on it, the second. :o
Unless your corp lost a second freighter at almost exactly the same time?
No only me here, I logged out when it looked it was going to die so didn't see concord spawn in a last ditch attempt to save the thing (not very long) and didn't login till later as I was in shock over the thing, have only logged Arian abck in to throw insurance at Stirling.
Rate my charecters please - 2M isk for a good review for the first 3 people!! |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.29 15:05:00 -
[59]
So, you thought you were in highsec but you were actually in lowsec? Well, you didn't know which of the two you were in which strikes me as a considerable worry to start. If you did actually know you have lied to your investors which is a phenomenal no-no.
You still haven't given a definitive answer when it only takes a log into eve and a check of killmail (total timeframe = approximately 1 minute 33 seconds) to determine security status of system.
Either way, unless the guy from Smash has the wrong person one of the following is correct:
1) You are misleading/lying to your investors which needs to stop from now on. If you screw something up, admit it. Covering it up is a phenomenal nono as these things tend to come back and bite you in the ass (read: Smash Alliance person calling you).
2) You have shown gross negligence in failing to pay due attention to actually know whether you were in lowsec or highsec.
Everyone has a loss in lowsec from time to time. Failing to accurately report it, or not knowing if you were/weren't in lowsec are the issues I have with this. You know which of the above categories you fit into. Whether you state it or not is your choice, but either way I hope you learn from it.
Need Empire Research Slots. Click here |
Confuzer
PBA Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.11.29 16:00:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Confuzer on 29/11/2007 16:01:15
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Originally by: Confuzer I don't understand this type of ganking isn't nerved in a patch allready, the guys from Eve seem oblivious for it.
It doesn't need a "fix" if there's nothing wrong with it.
As it is clear in my opinion, I think there is a slight inbalance in the mechanism.
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Originally by: Confuzer Why do they get insurance back when they gank in highsec? When I rub a bank, and the police wrecks my car, can I get the repairs from insurance?
EVE isn't designed to mimic RL. You pay for insurance, you get insurance.
Cheap ass answer, all games are based on something resembling RL, even the term insurance comes from RL. so if you mimic it, mimic it right...
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Originally by: Confuzer I also suggest a giant cutdown on sec standings... just do a -5 or something so they can't enter 0.5 soonish after a gank. This way you don't stop ganks, but make it much more unatractive and the people who WORK their ass of in game are a little saver and won't quit Eve so easily. If I get ganked e.g. with a few billion, I see ALOT of time wasted for nothing.
It's up to people to protect themselves in EVE, even in high sec. If you're carrying billions worth of cargo in a shuttle or AFKing about with such high value goods, then you deserve to lose what you do if you do. If you undock, you're a legal target. It's that simple. Be it 0.1 or 1.0, it's up to you to protect yourself and your assets. That means picking the right ship for the job, taking necessary precautions, and if you're carrying billions in a Freighter, get some friends to come along and run remote armor/shield repairers. It's not the epitome of fun, but then again neither is trying to recover billions in a loss that could be avoided.
I trade solo... I just ask to balance the safety thing, not get a lecture on what is the current situation.
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Originally by: Confuzer Or another option: Insure cargo just like insuring ships (and then only pay back x% of the destroyed cargo, otherwise you have a nice exploit ^^)
If your cargo isn't valuable enough to you to take all necessary precautions for it's safety, why should the developers have to give you anything for it's loss?
They don't give me anything, you pay for the cargo you insure, just like you pay for the insurance of your ship. Just like RL, an insurance company needs to make ISK to be able to pay out. You can compare it to moving alot of sheep, and then go to the insurance with the proof a few sheeps died during transport so you get the agreed amount back. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
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