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Neutrino Sunset
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.11.22 12:11:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Cpt Branko It's reasonable to assume he's got a cloak and istabs.
The scout or the hauler? Decloaking even a CovOps in a large bubble with an interceptor is quite easy when you know how, decloaking a hauler that can't even warp when cloaked is entirely trivial. Plus I suspect there are a great many noob traders out there without CovOps scout alts.
Originally by: Cpt Branko Riiiight. Cloaking hactors have a great lock time.
The Hactor does not need to be the one doing the dps many pirate camps consist of more than one ship. I have not heard anything to suggest that a cloak will interfere with the operation of a Hactor field, as I understand it the Warp Disruption Field Generator does not require target lock to operate, it is an area effect device.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Also just because Eve is an MMO does not mean that a lone player should not be able to achieve anything at all. An MMO can consist of everybody in one of two factions, or at the other extreme everybody against everybody, or any position between those two extremes. There is very little to gain by intentionally implementing a dynamic that makes new players everyones cannon fodder.
I agree with this, actually, although it doesn't really have much bearing on the discussion.
I raised this because many people here are suggesting that nobody should expect to be able to achieve anything on their own.
Originally by: Cpt Branko In fact, if you wanted to make a camp which people really can't pass by any means...
Agreed, it appears gate camping pirates already have more than enough tools at their disposal.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.11.22 13:26:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Most crusers can't fit enough scramble to stop a stabbed-up hauler.
The HIC can fit a single highslot module that stops anything in 30km range, and leaves mids empty for sensor boosters and other good stuff.
Vast difference.
I can't think of many cruisers which don't have three midslots...
The parallel however is what I found interesting here... A few months ago I remember a lot of threads from people who wanted a counter to something they saw as overpowered and which to their mind didn't have a counter of any sort; their opponents quite liked the status quo and responded with comments like "get some friends, get a scout"...etc.
Of course recently those opponents started selling their smartbombs but...
Yes, Motherships in Lowsec needed some form of counter, this counter however has applications which are both far reaching and difficult to counter. What is the value of the Blockade Runner role bonus against a HACtordictor? --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.22 15:47:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Jacob Holland
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Most crusers can't fit enough scramble to stop a stabbed-up hauler.
The HIC can fit a single highslot module that stops anything in 30km range, and leaves mids empty for sensor boosters and other good stuff.
Vast difference.
I can't think of many cruisers which don't have three midslots...
Not getting you here.
Cruisers cannot mount very many points of scramble, and those medslots are also needed for sensor boosters. Cruisers also can't tank sentries much.
The HIC can scramble anything, at superior range, without needing to use medslots for it. It can also easily tank sentries. And move *fast*, if needed.
There's no comparison, really.
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ry ry
StateCorp The State
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:04:00 -
[94]
what about scripts for stabs, but with a 95% agility/acceleration penalty.
you can warp off at will, but it will take take you ******* *hours* - plenty of time for an appropriate gang to pop you, but perhaps not enough time for one heavy dictor and a crow to pop you.
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:11:00 -
[95]
I'm on the side of the carebears here.
Here's how I see it:
* 1-3 man gatecamps are (mostly) survivable for a smart industrial pilot who fits his ship with stabs, cloak, and tank. * After the HIC change goes in, these same camps will no longer be surivable for the average industrial ship or mission runner. It's my experience that most lowsec mission runners fit their ship for transport before going through the gate, then refit at a local station. * These same camps remain survivable for the person with two accounts, one of which can use a properly fit blockade runner. For these people there is no real increase in risk. But since they have to use a blockade runner at every gate, not just high-risk ones, there is a pretty sharp decrease in the amount of cargo they can shuttle around. * As a whole, the risk of operating in lowsec increases dramitically. The risk for pirates on the other hand remainds unchanged - they will still get blobbed by anti-pies and if something dangerous comes through the gate they can simply choose not to engage. * With this increased level of risk, the only real difference between lowsec and 0.0 for your average carebear pilot - the ability to get through most gatecamps, goes away.
I think the result will be that industrial types that were doing fine in lowsec and would continue to do fine in lowsec if they stayed there will decide the risk isn't worth it anymore and go out to 0.0. Mission runners and struggling industrialists will go back to highsec. Pirates will sit on gates in their HICs and wonder where their targets are. Lowsec as a whole looses. ----- My in Eve Profile |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: ry ry what about scripts for stabs, but with a 95% agility/acceleration penalty.
you can warp off at will, but it will take take you ******* *hours* - plenty of time for an appropriate gang to pop you, but perhaps not enough time for one heavy dictor and a crow to pop you.
That's like my idea, but you said it in less words, so I approve. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Wu Jiun
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:10:00 -
[97]
Seeing how many pages this thread has it has probably been mentioned already, but to be sure:
What would overloading your wcs help if any warp core strength will not be enough to counter the scram?
On the other hand what would those new scramblers help if overloading wcs would nullify their effect?
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:57:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 22/11/2007 19:57:28 If the point of the infinite scramble beam script is to counter moms in lowsec, the easy solution to keep everyone happy is to only make the script effective against capital ships, with it being a 2 or 3 point scram against anything smaller.
Alternately, it could be modified so it only disallows jumping. Ships can still warp normally while affected by the beam. This would give pirates an extra option (since ships under the effect of the beam wouldn't be able to use the gate) they might even be able to catch people who use WTZ if they're not fast on the jump, but it wouldn't be an uncounterable i-win button to a solo pilot.
Like I said earlier though, the beam in its current form will up the risk in lowsec to close to 0.0 levels. With that much risk, pilots who can hack it will just go to 0.0 where the rewards are much higher, and those that can't will go back to 0.0. ----- My in Eve Profile |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Then don't give interdictors unlimited scrambling. Let interdictors do +10 points.
Sure, since it IS unlimited scrambling, unless they release a industrial with ten lowslots
At any rate, anyone relying on WCS to get through gatecamps was being stupid (and relying on sheer luck), since even previously, you'd get stopped by a good gatecamp.
Agility and cloaks are your friend, especially on a blockade runner (even though a cloaking industrial is about 99.5% safe).
CCP could have released T2 WCS with -2 scramble strength. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
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