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Ivorian
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Posted - 2007.11.23 00:54:00 -
[31]
These Posts are always really funny to read.
"Person A": I do "x" DPS, and do the mission in "y" time. "Person B": I do more DPS and can do the mission in half the time. "Person C": HA, i only use newbie stuff and still do more DPS than you all and can even do the mission in less time. "Person D": Thats nothing. I do the mission without weapons and am finished neven bevore i started.
"Person E": I am Chuck Norris. Nothing more to add.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.23 01:17:00 -
[32]
I'd like to post a time of 36 minutes for Angel Ex in my CNR, also no need to shield boost. And if I hadn't forgotten to start moving to the gate in one room I could have had that down to 35.
As far as Mael vs. Raven -- while the raw DPS numbers look similar remember that you don't have tracking issues with the Raven. You don't have to kite enemies to smack them down, you just move to the next gate spraying missiles as you go. Frigates are never a problem, ignore them and drones take care of them by the time you're done with BS and smaller.
And people's posted DPS for the Raven seem a bit low. I'm hitting for 511.some damage on structure per cruise missile, 7.26 RoF (no missile RoF or damage implants in this clone). 500-ish dps seems low, especially when you can fill the spare 2 slots with 1200mms or something. This is with Caldari BS5, t2 cruises, valk IIs+DI4, 3 BCUs.
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.23 04:16:00 -
[33]
In case it wasn't already mentioned:
A big reason the Raven (And missile ships in general) are better for pve is that missions throw dozens of rats at you at once, all at different ranges. Turrets have very specific optimal and falloff distances to worry about. A missile user does consistent dps across all ranges. A turret user has to maneuver his ship alot more to deal peak dps to the dozens of rats. A missile user can sit, tank and dish out the damage. THAT's why the Raven is best, despite its mediocre tank.
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Bellator Militaris
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Posted - 2007.11.23 07:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hephaesteus Edited by: Hephaesteus on 21/11/2007 22:07:41 Raven is much faster with a competent pilot. More dps and an almost unbreakable tank in missions.
What an outstanding Sig.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.11.23 07:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
And people's posted DPS for the Raven seem a bit low.
If you'd read the posts you'd have seen the numbers are with skills at 4, as per the first dps comparo by Quinella.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hephaesteus Edited by: Hephaesteus on 21/11/2007 22:07:41 Raven is much faster with a competent pilot. More dps and an almost unbreakable tank in missions.
The NH T2 tank is also 'almost unbreakable'. The NH faction tank *is* unbreakable with mission specific resists. Damage output..not so sure. Personally I think that the Raven can put out a bit more damage but only on BS. Given the number of smaller ships I suspect that the NH wins on efficiency.
Now if we're talking CNR I think that CNR has an equal tank and quite a bit more damage. OTOH it's a lot more expensive. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.11.23 13:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Andrue
Now if we're talking CNR I think that CNR has an equal tank and quite a bit more damage. OTOH it's a lot more expensive.
But a lot cheaper in training time.
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Greenwing
SuX ltd. Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.11.23 13:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Hephaesteus Edited by: Hephaesteus on 21/11/2007 22:07:41 Raven is much faster with a competent pilot. More dps and an almost unbreakable tank in missions.
The NH T2 tank is also 'almost unbreakable'. The NH faction tank *is* unbreakable with mission specific resists. Damage output..not so sure. Personally I think that the Raven can put out a bit more damage but only on BS. Given the number of smaller ships I suspect that the NH wins on efficiency.
BC's can also be 1-vollied by a Raven with max skills and damage implants (using torps). Cruisers will be about even and anything smaller will take longer. As most smaller ships will be killed by your drones while your torps are killing cruisers and above a Raven is quicker then a NH.
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Night Doc
Orekaria
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Posted - 2007.11.23 15:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: DeathsEmbrace So how are you peeps running 4's so fast in raven's? Obviously skills play a big part but theres got to be something I'm missing here.
You are missing the 1'x billion Gist Booster its needed to tank.
---------- - Target analysis - Fit EVE window to monitor |
Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2007.11.23 15:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ivorian These Posts are always really funny to read.
"Person A": I do "x" DPS, and do the mission in "y" time. "Person B": I do more DPS and can do the mission in half the time. "Person C": HA, i only use newbie stuff and still do more DPS than you all and can even do the mission in less time. "Person D": Thats nothing. I do the mission without weapons and am finished neven bevore i started.
Trolls that leave my IQ lower than what it was before I read them are always really funny to read (and my IQ was pretty low to begin with).
In a game where (for most players) ISK income is a big part of it, working out the most efficient way of doing a task that generates ISK is a fairly natural thing to do. Since in this case, killing stuff quickly generally means you'll be more efficient, DPS is an important (but not the only) factor in calculations.
Now, I can see that what you're really poking at is the one-up-manship or ePeen going on, which it does. But maybe, just maybe, when Joe B says he can do it twice as fast as Joe A, perhaps he's trying to guide Joe A in the right direction, using his own experience as a guide.
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.23 16:31:00 -
[41]
Yeah, but it's more often someone inflating the abilities of their epeen. C'mon, this is the internet.
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Phantasmo
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.24 10:43:00 -
[42]
Just remember when Trinity hits, a lot of Raven lovers are going to be crying and crying at their loss of range. Missions wont be nearly as easy in a raven in a few weeks.
But as it stands now, yes the Raven is the ultimate PVE and ratting ship. We'll see how all the Raven pilots will adapt to the changes.
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Tauranon
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.24 14:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 22/11/2007 22:57:53
Originally by: Tauranon
Since overkill on a 7 launcher ship is going be less than 1/7th of the firepower, its not a big factor anyway.
The braincells lost watching at the screen trying to calculate exact volley size will cost you more then 100b at current ISK<>$ conversion rates ...
While you are technically correct, one-volleying cruisers and BCS will end up a LOT more efficient then counting missiles (because, for example, you have more time to run another mission on another alt, or support your Raven with another ship).
Its not just time that matters, but effort / attention as well.
Its not like the rats actually change. If it took 3 missiles to kill rat X yesterday, it will likely take 3 missiles to kill it today. Its not like you have to count it every day, its not like you can't experiment with 1 launcher (on low regen targets) whilst 6 others 1 volley another target, and its not like the rats don't have memonic names/icons/bounties to help you make instant capability decisions (ie will this rat have worthwhile regen and need concentrated fire or not).
If you are playing multiple characters you need to maximise the time between attention on each character anyway, so you'd surely always be aiming for things like getting targets in groups of two to double the time before next attention is required anyway, which gives you a higher chance of getting attention back to this character before the targets die and thus your dps falls to 0.
For those of us that use hybrids (or any other turret as far as I know), the guns turn off when the target dies, and can be activated on the next target after the cooldown from its last useful shot. I can't overkill by 6 guns no matter how hard I try.
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Revan Crow
Minmatar KraehenKlaue
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Posted - 2007.11.24 16:48:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Revan Crow on 24/11/2007 16:48:22 Edited by: Revan Crow on 24/11/2007 16:48:03
Originally by: Toria Nynys
As far as Mael vs. Raven -- while the raw DPS numbers look similar remember that you don't have tracking issues with the Raven. You don't have to kite enemies to smack them down, you just move to the next gate spraying missiles as you go. Frigates are never a problem, ignore them and drones take care of them by the time you're done with BS and smaller.
i was flying the Raven for over a year in lv4s and got tired of exactly the stuff people talk about makes the raven oh so great .... you know, i love to chase around and actually fly a ship while running missions instead of crawling from gate to gate and hitting F1 to F6 without thinking. The Raven IS a great if not the Best Mission Ship when it comes to Time/isk but i wonder why most people run missions if they dont look at the Fun factor ....
EDIT: flying Maelstrom and Fleet Tempest
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Commander Prishe
Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Toria Nynys I'd like to post a time of 36 minutes for Angel Ex in my CNR, also no need to shield boost. And if I hadn't forgotten to start moving to the gate in one room I could have had that down to 35.
Thats an impressive time and not sure how you do that as I have exactly same RoF and about 503 cruise dmg on structure, I can manage 1 hour 13 minutes including bonus room for AE level 4. (also no shield boost, except for last room). Using T2 hammerheads that rip those 30k vipers to shreds. Hmmmm 36 minutes this must be without the bonus room?
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MaidMarion
The SMITE Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil Oh, one thing I didn't mention above. Because the Raven's refire rate is lower than the Nighthawk and the damage per missle is higher, it's more susceptible to a drop in DPS from defender interceptions. When you take the raw numbers (restated below) for a Raven vs. a Nighthawk and factor that in, it's easy to see why they run missions at the same rate.
My Nighthawk puts out about 460 DPS using regular scourge missles and light drones. My cruise Raven puts out 561 with regular missles and 2 heavy, 2 medium, and 1 light drone or 530 DPS with all medium drones. Set up with torps, the raven does 592 DPS with medium drones, but then it has even bigger issues with the small ships.
Try torp Raven with 5x t2 light + 5x t2 med drones. No need to fire a torp at anything smaller than a BC.
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MaidMarion
The SMITE Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Night Doc
Originally by: DeathsEmbrace So how are you peeps running 4's so fast in raven's? Obviously skills play a big part but theres got to be something I'm missing here.
You are missing the 1'x billion Gist Booster its needed to tank.
The 1bn Gist Booster is not required to tank lv4s. Nor does it help you kill things faster.
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2007.11.25 04:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Revan Crow Edited by: Revan Crow on 24/11/2007 16:48:22 Edited by: Revan Crow on 24/11/2007 16:48:03
Originally by: Toria Nynys
As far as Mael vs. Raven -- while the raw DPS numbers look similar remember that you don't have tracking issues with the Raven. You don't have to kite enemies to smack them down, you just move to the next gate spraying missiles as you go. Frigates are never a problem, ignore them and drones take care of them by the time you're done with BS and smaller.
i was flying the Raven for over a year in lv4s and got tired of exactly the stuff people talk about makes the raven oh so great .... you know, i love to chase around and actually fly a ship while running missions instead of crawling from gate to gate and hitting F1 to F6 without thinking. The Raven IS a great if not the Best Mission Ship when it comes to Time/isk but i wonder why most people run missions if they dont look at the Fun factor ....
EDIT: flying Maelstrom and Fleet Tempest
I think you'll find that a lot of people running missions are using it as a means to an end: That being to fund their PvP habit. And lets face it, PvP is 1,000 times more enjoyable than mission running, regardless of what ship you run missions in - thus the sooner you can make your ISK milestone for your next PvP setup, the better.
Granted this doesn't apply to everyone, but I'm just making a point.
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.25 08:50:00 -
[49]
Tried my Nighthawk again last night and it was slow compared to the Raven.
Nighthawk was fitted with this. 6 Heavy launchers, passive tank and 3 bcu's all T2 and it couldn't keep up, Pound for pound the Raven is still the best.
The Gisti booster is not needed for lvl 4 missions, but because the tank is so good you'll end up completing missions faster because you have less to worry about. That said there are cheaper options that will still have a monster tank but cost half the price.
If you really want to speed through missions, Hybrids and a Megathron are hard to beat
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Ivorian These Posts are always really funny to read.
"Person A": I do "x" DPS, and do the mission in "y" time. "Person B": I do more DPS and can do the mission in half the time. "Person C": HA, i only use newbie stuff and still do more DPS than you all and can even do the mission in less time. "Person D": Thats nothing. I do the mission without weapons and am finished neven bevore i started.
Trolls that leave my IQ lower than what it was before I read them are always really funny to read (and my IQ was pretty low to begin with).
In a game where (for most players) ISK income is a big part of it, working out the most efficient way of doing a task that generates ISK is a fairly natural thing to do. Since in this case, killing stuff quickly generally means you'll be more efficient, DPS is an important (but not the only) factor in calculations.
Now, I can see that what you're really poking at is the one-up-manship or ePeen going on, which it does. But maybe, just maybe, when Joe B says he can do it twice as fast as Joe A, perhaps he's trying to guide Joe A in the right direction, using his own experience as a guide.
I think there is quite alot of BS that gets passed around here but in general I think the majority of the posts are imformative and genuinely try to help.
*snip* Do not use your signature to troll or insult other EVE players *snip - I somehow doubt Rauth put that :) Cortes* -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) |
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Commander Prishe Using T2 hammerheads that rip those 30k vipers to shreds.
A painter helps them do that, but if you need your painter for missile targets small drones are faster then med drones on 30K rats, in my experience.
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marie claude
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Posted - 2007.11.28 08:53:00 -
[52]
im reading this thread with some interest as i am training for the raven.i can use all t2 shield mods hardeners amp boosters ect i am gallente crass training as i already fly the hyperion and a t2 fitted drake.i did it with missions in mind.the armor tank is great vs em /therm but dies under exp damgae AE comes to mind. i can run most lv 4 with the drake. the raven just seams a good balance with the hyper. i think the raven with t2 shields all arbelest cruise launchers 2 t2 med rails and a drone bay full of my t2 drones can hand out some damage. in all the calculations has anyone figured for t2 med drones? :) 5 of my t2 vespas can eqat an angel bs in 1.5 min wityhout me ever fireing and 5 t2 warriors pop angel frigs in 1 pass.tbh i have no idea how to figure the dps for them tho.
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