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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.25 06:30:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/11/2007 06:36:19
/me waves at el toppolino.
Hmm, I'd say you shouldn't assume that someone acts friendly or wants to act friendly in EVE, if you were old mates someday.
Being 'old friends' and not shooting someone isn't really the same.
Personally I don't like such situations, where someone expects not to get shot and you have to explain your mates, that they shouldn't shoot him, because you once flew with him.
It's different of course, if you fool an old friend into believing that he can trust you and use it to destroy him. I'd never do that.
Don't know, best thing is you assume that there is no peace, unless you both agreed on it. Here it seemed a bit one-sided, like you wanted peace, but he wasn't really happy about the idea.
If I talk to old 'friends', who are not blue anymore, then I try to be clear about it that we shoot eachother anyway, at least if we are not alone and not in neutral space. Think most people understand that and see it the same way.
This 'Hmm, we are old friends, what now ?' and dragging other players into it, who have nothing to do with your friendship isn't good, especially at some point everyone has old friends almost everywhere and you don't really want to interrupt pvp because of that all the time.
edit: ofc I understand that it must suck to lose 2 carriers that way.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.11.25 06:48:00 -
[92]
My RL friends and I have backstabbed and harassed eachother in eve constantly and in some brutal, underhanded ways.
But we know it's a game. If you fail to see that, go outside more.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
EglantinFinfleur
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2007.11.25 15:59:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Frug
My RL friends and I have backstabbed and harassed eachother in eve constantly and in some brutal, underhanded ways.
But we know it's a game. If you fail to see that, go outside more.
That's alright, since you are RL friends. This kind of behavior causes no problem, as your emotional ties existed before playing eve. Plus, in this type of setting, people brutally take from each other, but also give, since they want the other one to be still around, in order to have fun with him / at his expense.
That's the kind of behavior that can be witnessed amongst amiable pirates like Slothe, they will ransom people for low isk sometimes, reimburse their ships, give them advice on settings so the other can keep on providing a source of good, clean fun, i.e. engagements where the goal isn't humiliation of the adversary / Schadenfreude
Now, with people that meet for the first time in-game in a grief setting (which common sense easily defines, except for cretins i'm done arguing with), no emotional ties existed beforehand, and that's all more sweet for the griefer. Odds are, he wouldn't do it to somebody he knows in RL, since the whine on the other side wouldn't be as strong in the context of people having the same level of investment in the game, as above, or he would risk getting his RL relationship compromised.
The griefer is much like Kant's liar, who needs everyone else to tell the truth more often than not, in order for his behavior to be successful. The griefer wants everybody to have a strong emotional investment in the game (virtual belongings), while he has very little. That's why the cornerstone and only argument of his cheap defense is "it's only a game", which he can say to his heart's content, since most people will always have a strong emotional attachment to virtual belongings in a mmorpg. Saying "it's only a game" won't change that.
Plus, should everyone have no emotional investment in such a game, griefing wouldn't be fun, since it wouldn't generate hate mail, give the griefer a solid reputation, etc. Grifers tend to be attention hores, as is quite visible in lofty's case.
However i doubt any long-time online (not RL) friend would severely grief, i.e. take away from you in a non-political, non zone control situation. Griefers tend to act alone or flock together, given their psychology. It seems likely the character the OP met changed hands, as stated on 1st page of this thread.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.25 16:16:00 -
[94]
Originally by: EglantinFinfleur
Originally by: Frug
My RL friends and I have backstabbed and harassed eachother in eve constantly and in some brutal, underhanded ways.
But we know it's a game. If you fail to see that, go outside more.
That's alright, since you are RL friends. This kind of behavior causes no problem, as your emotional ties existed before playing eve. Plus, in this type of setting, people brutally take from each other, but also give, since they want the other one to be still around, in order to have fun with him / at his expense.
That's the kind of behavior that can be witnessed amongst amiable pirates like Slothe, they will ransom people for low isk sometimes, reimburse their ships, give them advice on settings so the other can keep on providing a source of good, clean fun, i.e. engagements where the goal isn't humiliation of the adversary / Schadenfreude
So it is not griefing, no matter how 'brutal' and 'underhanded', as long as the parties involved understand that it is only done in the context of the game, and that this mean behaviour in the game does not reflect any real malice towards the other player? Is this correct?
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I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
JabJabVVV
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.25 16:37:00 -
[95]
As long as he didn't actively abuse your friendship in order to kill you then I cannot see what the problem is.
After you have played the game for a while you become friendly with far too many people to worry about shooting them.
If he didn't abuse your friendship then I fail to see the problem. Just as you might play poker with your friends so you should play Eve: you play to win but you don't let it get between you and you don't take advantage.
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When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things. |
EglantinFinfleur
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:00:00 -
[96]
Edited by: EglantinFinfleur on 25/11/2007 17:01:19
Originally by: Crumplecorn
So it is not griefing, no matter how 'brutal' and 'underhanded', as long as the parties involved understand that it is only done in the context of the game, and that this mean behaviour in the game does not reflect any real malice towards the other player? Is this correct?
Desufargeg?
You're not only obnoxious, but also an imbecile. Please gaze once more at the previous pearls of psychology i have so liberally bestowed upon you in the course of this thread, you swine. You are so dull and incapable of finding the motives behind people's actions, in different settings, that you're actually the one applying a general perception of the game upon everybody else's psyche. Griefers feast upon the consequences of online malice, they have very little emotional attachment to their virtual property since its only a means to an end, which is destroying / removing the other people's properties, their frustration fueling their fun, while most people see virtual property as an end in itself. Griefer psychology is different.
But i'm the stupid lamer here, expecting a full-blown troll ripe with condescending signatures to actually understand the fact that different people = different states of mind, different appreciations of the game and its virtual golds, in the context of said game. You foam at the mouth just thinking of mission runners and prey upon people posting their first whine on the forums about how they have experienced eve's harsh reality, srsly dude gb2whatever.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:06:00 -
[97]
Originally by: EglantinFinfleur
Edited by: EglantinFinfleur on 25/11/2007 17:01:19
Originally by: Crumplecorn
So it is not griefing, no matter how 'brutal' and 'underhanded', as long as the parties involved understand that it is only done in the context of the game, and that this mean behaviour in the game does not reflect any real malice towards the other player? Is this correct?
Desufargeg?
You're not only obnoxious, but also an imbecile. Please gaze once more at the previous pearls of psychology i have so liberally bestowed upon you in the course of this thread, you swine. You are so dull and incapable of finding the motives behind people's actions, in different settings, that you're actually the one applying a general perception of the game upon everybody else's psyche. Griefers feast upon the consequences of online malice, they have very little emotional attachment to their virtual property since its only a means to an end, which is destroying / removing the other people's properties, their frustration fueling their fun, while most people see virtual property as an end in itself. Griefer psychology is different.
But i'm the stupid lamer here, expecting a full-blown troll ripe with condescending signatures to actually understand the fact that different people = different states of mind, different appreciations of the game and its virtual golds, in the context of said game. You foam at the mouth just thinking of mission runners and prey upon people posting their first whine on the forums about how they have experienced eve's harsh reality, srsly dude gb2whatever.
So is that a yes or a no?
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I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
EglantinFinfleur
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:09:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
So is that a yes or a no?
Desufargeg?
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:10:00 -
[99]
You would have rated a 9/10 on that troll Eggy, if crumplecorn hadn't managed to stay level headed.
One of the best written attacks on another player I have ever read! A+++ would read again
of course you just shot yourself in the foot for anyone ever taking anything you said seriously with your ******* attitude, your inability to brign an actually argument to the table, and your prodigious use of ad hom attacks after insulting someone else for supposedly using them
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:10:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/11/2007 17:13:31
You guys do know whether you like it or not, EglantinFinfleur has good points. In RL, I would be scared to talk too much to EglantinFinfleur because he actually knows you by talking. I am guessing he is some kind of psychologist or something.
EDIT: EglantinFinfleur, you should start a long thread about what you think about the mind of a griefer and add some materials you have from this thread. I am sure players could add constructively into what makes a griefer tick or how a griefer think. It would be quite a good discussion in my opinion. :)
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:11:00 -
[101]
Originally by: EglantinFinfleur
Originally by: Crumplecorn
So is that a yes or a no?
Desufargeg?
As amusing as this is I would still like an answer which falls within my supposedly limited comprehension.
...
:(
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I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:12:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
You guys do know whether you like it or not, EglantinFinfleur has good points. In RL, I would be scared to talk too much to EglantinFinfleur because he actually knows you by talking. I am guessing he is some kind of psychologist or something.
We assume you bought that post off of ebay as well?
Yeah no one here takes you seriously
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Jukhta Mein
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Posted - 2007.11.25 18:36:00 -
[103]
While many of you would agree that it's all a game and all's fine after, such in-game actions very often have tangible, real-life consequences. In this context the loss of 2 carriers means the loss of hard-earned isk, which means the loss of time.
This doesn't mean that one cannot take away another's ship (and therefore, time) in the game. The difference here is that he lost his 2 carriers here due to a betrayal of trust, and since this betrayal of trust takes away real-life property in some sense, then no, I don't condone such actions.
Note here that this trust was earned in real life and had little to do with in-game politics. If you earn in-game trust and you betray it thereafter, well thats a different case for me.
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Samuel Freedom
Minmatar
Ramdon Industries corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.25 19:19:00 -
[104]
I think the OP was annoyed that he got tricked be a so called 'friend' who he has not seen in a long time. That being said it is the OP's fault as far as I can tell he only new this guy ingame quite some time ago. At the end of the day it is a game and people are more likely to stab you in the back if a 'better friend' asks them to.
On a seperate note could people please stop feeding the troll, you all know whom I am refering to. Please CCP give us the ignore option on the forums.
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Jennai
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.25 19:59:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Samuel Freedom
I think the OP was annoyed that he got tricked be a so called 'friend' who he has not seen in a long time. That being said it is the OP's fault as far as I can tell he only new this guy ingame quite some time ago. At the end of the day it is a game and people are more likely to stab you in the back if a 'better friend' asks them to.
it's not really a trick if it didn't involve any deception.
dude's poking around in a cyno-domi, runs into a neutral carrier group that fires on him and then yells about ceasefire. obvious assumption here is that there was some diplo stuff and the standings haven't been updated yet, so he checks with alliance while the neutrals repair him, gets negative confirmation, and pops the cyno so they can get carrier kills.
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