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Jimmy Tse
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.31 10:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
For reasons that will become obvious, this is an alt.
IGÇÖm part of a certain alliance that some people might describe as an Eve institution. ItGÇÖs always operated under certain rules and had a large enough membership not to be at all concerned about incoming wars. In actual fact, they have been largely welcomed as an opportunity to put together fleet operations.
Recently, this has changed though. Attitudes have become stiff and new, very unnecessary rules have been put in place, namely a fine of 500 million ISK if anyone loses a pod in Jita. This is on account of losing 608 ships, including 238 pods in the system in a recent war that has now been extended. Those who donGÇÖt pay the fine will be removed from the alliance.
While I do understand this measure as a deterrent, given the nature of what we do, our pilots need Jita. ItGÇÖs close and convenient and if we really wanted to clear it to make it safe for our pilots, we could with ease. IGÇÖm posting this here and not on our own forums because I think this rule is a ridiculous and disproportionate overreaction by the alliance leadership. I do enjoy the alliance and I really donGÇÖt want to see it lose members because the powers that be cannot fix this problem in a positive, constructive way. The fine is too harsh and far too much and stinks of profiteering instead of taking proper action.
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Mods Muvila
S0utherN Comfort Controlled Chaos
15
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Posted - 2012.01.31 10:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Looks like you got a couple of options here:
1. Work overtime and buy more plex to pay your fail alliance.
Or
2. Don't suck so much. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc Laika.
57
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Posted - 2012.01.31 10:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
You should be having this conversation with your ceo, not the miscreants here in C and P.
For 250m I will be happy to escort you in and out of Jita. |
Removal Tool
Unleet Industries LLC
2
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Posted - 2012.01.31 11:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
definitely option number 2.
When there are neutral alts who ship stuff from jita to your door for free, what kind of idiot needs to go to jita in his pod, auto-piloting all the way, with war targets who know that the pilots do this every single day. Then undock in a Frigate and wonder why they get insta-popped by the sensor boosted battlecruisers sitting in the jita undock area.
I predict it's to make you play a bit smarter, but I guess common sense can't be taught. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2012.01.31 11:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
The only way said rules will stop is if it becomes far easier to get into a corp.
This is why we need a modular POS and corp system so that potential spiez will have far less power and therefore more will have a chance and competition will remove these rules.
And I have to agree about the neutral alts. Going to jita with your main is bad news. |
Rancyin
Trans-Solar Works
26
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Posted - 2012.01.31 11:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Removal Tool wrote:definitely option number 2.
When there are neutral alts who ship stuff from jita to your door for free, what kind of idiot needs to go to jita in his pod, auto-piloting all the way, with war targets who know that the pilots do this every single day. Then undock in a Frigate and wonder why they get insta-popped by the sensor boosted battlecruisers sitting in the jita undock area.
I predict it's to make you play a bit smarter, but I guess common sense can't be taught.
True. but who the hell would want to be in alliance that sanctions such rules? Suppose its one of those alliance where you have to conduct an hour long survey and an interview by some middle aged guy who think he knows it all before joining. To find most people you fly with are terrible.
If you want gear moved from Jita. simply use Red frog or Push X industries. It will cost you a few million to move things to your own system. But my advice there is1000s of other corps/alliances where you will have much more fun and not be dictated to.
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Ifly Uwalk
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
150
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Posted - 2012.01.31 12:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
For anyone interested, OP's main is in RvB.
Although I can see the reasoning behind the new Jita rules, imo if I was in RvB leadership I would just simply /care. To my mind, RvB has always been about straight-up, fun pew rather than what the alliance KB looks like. It's not like the Jita rules will change anything anyway since I bet most of the people dumb enough to lose 2-bill-ISK pods in Jita don't read the (RvB) forums.
vOv
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Lady Ayeipsia
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent
34
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Posted - 2012.01.31 13:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Wow, that is a pretty crappy rule for rvb. That said, get a hauler alt, use an alternate trade hub, or just don't get podded. It is very hard to be podded in hi sec. As soon as u r in structure, pick a celestial object and start spamming the warp button. Pods warp near instantaneously.
I'm also very sure there are people with hauling alts that would help you out. |
Keltaris Cesaille
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jimmy Tse wrote:For reasons that will become obvious, this is an alt.
You've answered your own question
Use a hauling alt, its really not that hard
DERP |
StonerPhReaK
Nasgul Collective Cascade Imminent
23
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
3 werds
Red Frog Freight.
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Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
29
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
The rule was intoduced to reduce the number of war decs, by removing the source of them, ie. the MORONS who decide that jita 4-4 is perfectly safe to sit outside while wardeced, after being told over and over again that it isn't and to use an alt/courier contract, after hearing all the other idiots whining on corp chat about how they got killed a few minutes ago, and (best of all) after they got podded the previous day doing the exact same thing.
By forcing the idiots to either quit or stop being idiots, the free kills will stop and the '1337 pvpers' will have to either fight on RvBs terms (and lose, horribly) or drop the dec. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
800
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
The sad thing is the OP didn't automatically arrive at several possible alternatives to hauling his main into Jita to buy stuff, yet had the sense to post with an alt.
I come and go from Jita during war all the time, even with wartargets on the undock. For some reason they always seem to think it's a trap when I'm around |
Keeley Ellis
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
111
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:The rule was intoduced to reduce the number of war decs, by removing the source of them, ie. the MORONS who decide that jita 4-4 is perfectly safe to sit outside while wardeced, after being told over and over again that it isn't and to use an alt/courier contract, after hearing all the other idiots whining on corp chat about how they got killed a few minutes ago, and (best of all) after they got podded the previous day doing the exact same thing. By forcing the idiots to either quit or stop being idiots, the free kills will stop and the '1337 pvpers' who do the camping will have to either fight on RvBs terms (and lose, horribly ) or drop the dec.
To be fair, not all of them sit still. The ones that turn up for a fight actually tend to be the ones who can get their pods clear. Shame there hasn't been more of those ones. |
Ifly Uwalk
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
150
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
RvB Jita Rules |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
29
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Posted - 2012.01.31 14:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Keeley Ellis wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:The rule was intoduced to reduce the number of war decs, by removing the source of them, ie. the MORONS who decide that jita 4-4 is perfectly safe to sit outside while wardeced, after being told over and over again that it isn't and to use an alt/courier contract, after hearing all the other idiots whining on corp chat about how they got killed a few minutes ago, and (best of all) after they got podded the previous day doing the exact same thing. By forcing the idiots to either quit or stop being idiots, the free kills will stop and the '1337 pvpers' who do the camping will have to either fight on RvBs terms (and lose, horribly ) or drop the dec. To be fair, not all of them sit still. The ones that turn up for a fight actually tend to be the ones who can get their pods clear. Shame there hasn't been more of those ones. The fine doesn't apply to those who are part of a fleet who goes after the campers. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Keeley Ellis
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
111
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Posted - 2012.01.31 15:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote: The fine doesn't apply to those who are part of a fleet who goes after the campers.
That's not too bad then, aside from the lack of aforementioned fleets.
But, how about combat fitted Helios' who wait for tackle to burn 200km to intercept them?
I was hoping it was some kind of elaborate trap. I left disappointed and confused. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1371
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Posted - 2012.01.31 15:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Since when did RvB become serious business. Shame! (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Lady Ayeipsia
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent
35
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Posted - 2012.01.31 15:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Honestly, to some of the officers, rvb was always serious business.
And I misread the fine amount. 500 mil isk is absolutely insane for any rvb player. We are talking about a group that is tryimg to encourage cheap pvp. To set a fine at a rate higher than probably the cost of ships lost in rvb during a week is brutalwhy even set a fine at that point? 50 mil so it stings, fine but an amount that would keep rvb in T1 frigs for a month, way too much. And if the worry is that older pilots will view 50 mil as cheap, make a sliding scale based on skill points.
That said, this brings to light the worst aspect of rvb... The leadership does not do a good job seeking input from its members nor are they forth coming with details. There was probably no warning or grace period for this. Similar circumstances happened when they moved home systems. Yes, they did help people haul after the fact. However, no input was sought on new home system nor was warning given that hey, don't stock up, we are moving next week. It just shows a poor style if leadership.
Don't get me wrong, I love rvb, red for life. Still, in some senses the CEO needs to take things less seriously and be more.forth coming. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
286
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Posted - 2012.01.31 15:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Since when did RvB become serious business. Shame! PVP corps just hate it when other people try and PVP them, so obviously they have to do something to try and cut down on the unwanted PVP. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.01.31 17:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'll complete the rest of the thread title for you '... because I won't pay attention and want to remain in alliance' |
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magic preacher
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.01.31 19:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
As our small band of valiant capsuleers seems to be slightly involved in this http://concentratedevil.griefwatch.net/?p=kills&class=Capsule&campaign=14741 I would like to extend the hand of friendship, and safe passage through Jita, to any RVB pilot for more than reasonable price of 250 million ISK regards magic preacher CEO concentrated evil
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Zen Sins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.02.01 01:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
The net effect of the rule is that if you lose your pod in Jita you can be booted from RvB at the CEO's discretion. The 500m fine is just a creative way of saying that. Profiteering? How many people do you think will actually pay it?
Besides, don't like the policy? Go start Green v Orange.
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CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
6
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Posted - 2012.02.01 01:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zen Sins wrote:The net effect of the rule is that if you lose your pod in Jita you can be booted from RvB at the CEO's discretion. The 500m fine is just a creative way of saying that. Profiteering? How many people do you think will actually pay it?
Besides, don't like the policy? Go start Green v Orange.
who are RVB ?
and why would a supposedly large alliance create such an awful policy?
500m isk is ridiculous. |
Dirk Magnum
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
204
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Posted - 2012.02.01 02:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
CraftyCroc wrote:Zen Sins wrote:The net effect of the rule is that if you lose your pod in Jita you can be booted from RvB at the CEO's discretion. The 500m fine is just a creative way of saying that. Profiteering? How many people do you think will actually pay it? and why would a supposedly large alliance create such an awful policy? To root out the bads, like Zen Sins said. RvB is a haven for spies because of its rather open recruitment policies. Going into any wardec as either Red or Blue is already fraught with trouble, and yet historically they have often performed quite well. At least that's what I saw flying with Blue for over a year.
Those loss statistics they're citing for Jita are absolutely ridiculous, and there are some pilots who should rightfully feel embarassed. I'm sure most other PvP corps would just start kicking the lemmings without even giving them a second chance at some point, so on the off-chance someone actually does pay the fee to buy themselves a second chance, it's at least a boost to the ship replacement program for the serious players in the alliance.
So anyway in summary: insane pod loss stats, fee for a second chance with the alliance, seems reasonable to me. "For example, if you are thinking about selling a Republic Fleet Firetail as a regular Firetail, be sure that the market volume is high on regular Firetails and that there are plenty of buy/sell contracts for Republic Fleet Firetails. [...] The players most interested in Republic Fleet Firetails are going to be players flying regular ones."-á -- PB |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
138
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Posted - 2012.02.01 03:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shouldn't your thread title say something more like "Fines for dying in jita"? |
Aggressive Nutmeg
104
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Posted - 2012.02.01 03:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Shouldn't your thread title say something more like "Fines for dying in jita"? Or 'Fines for being stupid in Jita' Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
Rommell Drako
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming Moar Tears
9
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Posted - 2012.02.01 04:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Shouldn't your thread title say something more like "Fines for dying in jita"? Or 'Fines for being stupid in Jita'
Same Difference |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
26
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Posted - 2012.02.01 04:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Shouldn't your thread title say something more like "Fines for dying in jita"? Or 'Fines for being stupid in Jita'
Good thing everyone in Jita isn't in RvB then I scam on my main |
Plutonian
Intransigent
72
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Posted - 2012.02.01 04:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
I just had an Eve Uni circa 2007 flashback. Back then it was the Privateers.
Good luck finding a workaround for stupidity.
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Death Warmedup
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.02.01 04:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Wow, that is a pretty crappy rule for rvb. That said, get a hauler alt, use an alternate trade hub, or just don't get podded. It is very hard to be podded in hi sec. As soon as u r in structure, pick a celestial object and start spamming the warp button. Pods warp near instantaneously.
I'm also very sure there are people with hauling alts that would help you out.
You'd be surprised how quickly a sensor boosted frigate tackler can lock your pod. if the celestial/bookmark isn't directly in front of oyu, it'll still take a few miliseconds to align the pod, thats generally enough time to be locked and pointed. that method isn't 100% fool proof.
Quite frankly, if you loose a pod anywhere in highsec during a war, while not involved in fleet ops, you deserve to be kicked/fined whatever. Its not hard to use an alt, or a friend/corpie's alt to scout/haul for you. Personally, if i were CEO or a large corp and i was having problem with people making rookie mistakes after they have already been warned, i wouldn't give them the luxury of being able to pay a fine to stay, i'd just boot there ass. |
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