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Letias
Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:11:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Letias on 24/11/2007 23:14:09
Originally by: Ufl
Originally by: Matalino
Your proposal: CEO gives 1000 share to investors Investors give 500 million ISK to CEO Investors/CEO give you 1 billion ISK
Incorrect: CEO gives 1000shares + 1bil isk to NUEX
NUEX lists all shares at 1.5mil isk per share because investors are willing to pay that Investors buy all shares and create 1.5bil which is given to the CEO CEO now has 1.5bil - NUEX has 1bil (secure net assets) - investors have 1000 shares
In this case the value of the corp is no longer 1 bill its 1.5 bill so there is no security for the last 500 million which people are investing. Only if shares sell for exactly the same amount being representive of the number of shares, i.e. 1000 shares at 1 mill each = 1 billion. If share prices are higher through your bidding system or through you selling them for more then security isnt complete.
- Edit, The CEO still has to fork out for the use of this service, It can only be good for growth (good lol).
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Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:49:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Treelox Your responses, Ulf, keep seeming to occur from the investor stand point, what I think Matalino, myself and others are more concerned about is from the IPO/CEO's perspective.
Actually, looking at it the way I have spelled it out, it is the investors that get screwed over. The CEO still gets everything he wants. It is the investors who are out the ISK until the CEO actually goes scam.
Yes correct the investors get screwed - but not 100% screwed.
The current Stock Exchanges: CEO goes public, raises capital, runs with money, everyone is 100% loss
NUEX Stock Exchanges: CEO has to put up collateral (a scam deterent #1) CEO has to submit shares to NUEX for sales (a scam deterent #2) CEO has to submit IPO CEO has to submit Business Ideas to public Investors have to look over CEO's propositions and determine if they are willing to pay: 1. Equal amount to the NET ASSET value of the shares, which is the true value; or 2. More than the NET ASSET value of the shares 3. Less than the NET ASSET value of the shares
If investors pay (1), then they are obviously concerned with the outlook of the next report, on whether or not the CEO will increase the net assets, and in turn increase the share value.
If investors pay (2), then they have read the IPO, Prospectus, Summary, and whatever other information the CEO has release to the public - and determined that based on the information provided the shares will be valued much higher within the next reporting range - and will thus pay more than other players.
If investors pay (3), then obviously their outlook of the corporation and CEO is not too good - investors looking to sell low are usually getting out of an investment because they believe the next reporting period will be weak.
The system is designed to mimic real life markets with BID and ASK prices determined by investors based on a corporations history. My knowledge of the markets, since I do trade in them in real life, has lead our team to this system which works for both the CEO and the investors.
A CEO's responsibilities are to his shareholders, because if he continues to make them happy, then they will continue to buy shares above the net asset value, and this in turn will give the CEO directly MORE money to work with. If this scenario continues it will only draw more investors, more money, and the price will continue to rise - raising even more capital for the CEO. This will ONLY work if the CEO has the trust and respect of his shareholders, who believe he will succeed, post profits, issue dividends, and they will invest more because he can always replicate his process.
Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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Letias
Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:55:00 -
[93]
Shares are worth what you pay for them, or have i got this wrong? How can you pay less than what they are worth, what you pay is what they are worth..?
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Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.11.24 23:58:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Ufl on 25/11/2007 00:04:12
Originally by: Letias Edited by: Letias on 24/11/2007 23:14:09
Originally by: Ufl
Originally by: Matalino
Your proposal: CEO gives 1000 share to investors Investors give 500 million ISK to CEO Investors/CEO give you 1 billion ISK
Incorrect: CEO gives 1000shares + 1bil isk to NUEX
NUEX lists all shares at 1.5mil isk per share because investors are willing to pay that Investors buy all shares and create 1.5bil which is given to the CEO CEO now has 1.5bil - NUEX has 1bil (secure net assets) - investors have 1000 shares
In this case the value of the corp is no longer 1 bill its 1.5 bill so there is no security for the last 500 million which people are investing. Only if shares sell for exactly the same amount being representive of the number of shares, i.e. 1000 shares at 1 mill each = 1 billion. If share prices are higher through your bidding system or through you selling them for more then security isnt complete.
- Edit, The CEO still has to fork out for the use of this service, It can only be good for growth (good lol).
You're almost on target.
The Corporations value will be 1bil, because it is the NET ASSETS that determine the share price.
Investors know the CEO has raise 500mil more than the true value of the stock, thats why they trusted him in the first place with all that money... but it is NOT applied to the true share value... why is this?
Because the CEO was seeking more assets in order to accomplish a goal of reaching 10bil, as pointed out in his IPO. This will create and drive the supply/demand of the shares, and in turn the price as well.
The CEO must now perform very well with that money in order to add more to the net assets - to increase share value, and make shareholders happy.
Now, the question keeps coming up of "scam CEO's"
If the investors put up the additional 500mil, its because they trusted the CEO and what he said, so it is their risk and their loss if he disappears... why?
Because the NET ASSETS the CEO originally put up was equal to 1bil, or 1mil/share. Did investors need to buy it at 1.5mil/share? No, not at all. As a matter of fact, there will most probably be many BUY orders at 1mil, 1.1mil, 1.2mil, etc.. But obviously the highest buy orders, 1.5mil/share would be filled first since they BID the highest, and in turn raised more capital.
So - the only way a player can lose to a scam CEO in the NUEX system, is if you PAY MORE for his shares than the REGISTERED NET ASSETS, or TRUE VALUE... Which is their choice, their decision, and their risk.
Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:01:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Letias Shares are worth what you pay for them, or have i got this wrong? How can you pay less than what they are worth, what you pay is what they are worth..?
Shares function almost like items, players will be trying to outbid each other in order to buy them, and outsell each other in order to sell them.
The TRUE value of the shares is determined by: Net Assets / Total Shares Issued
If investors are selling lower than the Net Asset value, they know they are taking a loss - and this may be because they know the CEO wont perform better, and want to get out of the investment and move to a bigger one, or just want to get rid of their shares because they need cash for bills. Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:08:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Matalino on 25/11/2007 00:16:02
Originally by: Ufl The current Stock Exchanges: CEO goes public, raises capital, runs with money, everyone is 100% loss
Agreed.
However, under you system, if the CEO actually suceeds at raising any capital (diffucult at best), runs with that money, everyone (investors) is out X% (500 mil in your example) that CEO raised, and have earned no return on Y% (1 bil also from your example) that has sit idle in your wallet.
How is that better than the current system?
************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO |
Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:12:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Ufl on 25/11/2007 00:12:54 sry was posting while u edited
Excellet ! :) Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.11.25 00:23:00 -
[98]
ok I Grok this now.
Not sure I see the incentive for CEO's to particapate, but that would be your problem, Mr. Public Relations.
Best of luck, and I hope to see your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly progress reports as the case may be.
Thank you Ufl for stepping back from the high horse that you were on yesterday and the day before to explain it to us unwashed masses.
---
Disclaimer:
My presence in this thread is neither an endorsement nor a repudiation of the Nucon business model. I remain neutrally indifferent. --
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.25 02:32:00 -
[99]
Hi Ufl,
I havn't really commented in the plethora of discussions and threads on your ideas yet. I am not a trader or investor in real life, and have only been actively trading in Eve Online for a month now.
I have learnt a lot I think, and really having fun with the system. I am making a moderate profit, and my first month of trading I have managed to pay my corp directors (who are shareholders) 100m in profits in the first month. Not great, but not shabby for a first time CEO in the game.
Anyway, my point is that I am not an expert, and I have a couple of questions about NuCon and your stock exchange ideas. I'd appreciate some thoughts on them in this public arena, rather than a private email. If I'm interested more, I will contact you in game for a chat.
My questions are:
1) Why do you want to use Veldspar as a "gold commodity". As I understand real life, we use gold because it transcends the different world currencies, and there's a proven method of being able to mine it. In Eve, we dont have different currencies, so I don't quite understand why you would want to avoid using ISK? Again, Im not a financial exper in real life, so my question is genuine and I'm probably missing the reasons for it.
2) You are asking me (corp) to underwrite my investment in your company. I don't think this is how its done in real life (again, I could be wrong), but I dont see how my corp and shareholders gain anything by giving you Veldspar for my shares. I just dont get this part. If I give you shares and Veldspar to underwrite those shares, isnt that defeating the point in the first place?
3) PDF - your PDF seems very light on the actual details - I would like to see a more "fleshed out" version and as a layman, examples would be good.
Thanks for your time - I do actually beleive you are trying to do something good and epic here - and there are others who share your visions for something BETTER than what CCP offers us in terms of investing and trade. EBank comes to mind (and no, Im not a member).
In Eve Online though, there are no regulatory bodies to answer for, and therefore, EVERY SINGLE investment always has a % chance of it being an outright pure scam - and some of the scams in Eve Online to date have been very slick and even more professional looking than yours.
No offence in my text above - just some genuine concerns from an Average (maybe) Eve Online trader.
Kind regards,
Eve Web Design | PerthChat | Learning to Trade
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Asteroid Bandit
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Posted - 2007.11.25 08:45:00 -
[100]
IÆve read through the numerous posts on the Nucon stock service and tried writing several replies as to why I thought it was a bad idea. Each time I tried working out how this system would operate I came close to debunking it only to find slightly more and more logic behind it. Here is what I have come up with from UflÆs proposal and replies:
Nucon (Nuex) is an exchange service whose primary goal is to provide revenue to expanding corporations while mitigating the risk investors assume. The most apparent attack flaw that skeptics draw on is the fact that under UflÆs initial explanation CEOs are not capable of generating any revenue from an IPO beyond their current assets. This is true. As Ufl has explained it Nuex requires a 1 to 1 exchange of assets (isk or veld escrow) for every share issued. Under this system no liquid assets could be generated for the CEO to fund a startup business. Simply put a Nuex IPO is only worthwhile to established corps already generating profits.
What then is the point of a Nuex IPO? After filling in the numerous gaps in UflÆs proposal I believe the interest lies in generating a historical trust that has the ability to generate future speculation.
A CEO has a moderately profitable business venture. In order to expand he will need additional assets. Under the current IPO system one must go to the forums, post their proposal, and based on that proposal investors risk their capital on the business. There is no guarantee to the investor that the proposal will be followed through or that the current business model is even profitable. Using a Nuex IPO the CEO generates an IPO at a fixed price. Nuex then distributes the shares and returns the isk generated while at the same time receiving an equal amount in escrow. Thus the initial investment is insured against fraud. If the CEO has been truthful in his initial proposal then the modest profits he is already generating will continue to trickle in. He then invests these profits into the asset escrow increasing the value of the sold shares. After a period of time he buys the shares back effectively distributing the profits from his initial business model to the preliminary investors at a profit to them and a loss to him.
With the investors success in the first IPO the CEO then issues a second proposal for expansion. This time now that ôtrustö (or better ôfaithö) in the CEO has been established investors will be willing to bid on the shares available at a price higher than the escrow value. Speculation will drive the investment up.
This is where the revenue for expansion is generated. Nuex still holds the initial value in escrow but the investors are bidding higher than that value thus generating revenue for the CEO. The CEO now has the overbid isk to invest in expansion into his company. However in order to acquire the assets in escrow he needs to buy back the shares at the price that the investors bought or at the least input more profits into the escrow account to match the buying price thus allowing the CEO to issue more shares and generate more income from further speculation.
The benefit of this system is that risk is mitigated as the smash and grab scenario is eliminated. Initially at 1 to 1 there is no benefit to scamming as all the isk you acquire through investors is matched by your input into escrow. Previous successes leads to speculation that then generate isk beyond escrow investment. The success of this system is that it takes far longer and far greater isk to generate large investment than before, reducing the chance of scamming. You have to prove that your business plan is a success before the speculation generates isk and even then a large sum of your own isk is held in escrow.
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Asteroid Bandit
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Posted - 2007.11.25 08:46:00 -
[101]
If my analysis is correct then this idea is logical and potentially beneficial to those looking to generate revenue for expansion, while reducing the risk for investors. (Not eliminating)
That said there is no way I could endorse this system. Firstly there is the problem that while this reduces risk it does not eliminate it as advertised. A corrupt CEO with a good idea or a large wallet can still play the system in the long con and make off with a sizeable profit. While it will not be the mass sums of old and investors are guaranteed to a point, the higher the speculation the greater the risk.
There is also the problem of the management of Nuex. Ufl is either a scammer or incompetent. I as well as many others (who have a great deal of understanding and knowledge of eve investment) have reviewed the Nucon proposal and not found any substance. I have drawn my conclusions primarily from the ôscenariosö given in the proposal under the titles Bob and XCorp. From this and Ufl inability to explain in any meaningful way his proposal it becomes clear that however much experience he may claim to have in stock investments he has no experience in accounting nor the eve economy.
The inclusion of veld as some sort of gold standard shows a clear lack of understanding of the mineral markets. Trit, the marketable result of veld, has a maximal value. Trit can never be worth 5 isk / unit. Trit can only be worth the reprocessed value of a shuttle at best. This mean under the ôfloatingö rate a savvy investor or CEO can manipulate the ôgold standardö that Ufl is proposing. If trit is at a maximal high then a CEO can secure his shares with trit (processed veld) valued at 3 isk / unit. When the market has nowhere to go but down the value of the investor shares will follow the trit prices but the profits from the trit high already in isk will remain constant.
When you analyze the example of Bob you can clearly see that Ufl ignored his assets vs. liabilities. Write up a simple T sheet or use common sense and you will come to the conclusion that Bob has not turned a profit. While he does have 28.8 more isk than when he started that is a net loss. Timeline: Liquid Isk 100 Liquid Isk 0 Escrow 100 Liquid isk 100 Escrow 100 Liability 100 (Net change 0) Profit 100 (From his business) Liquid isk 200 Escrow 100 Liability 100 Liquid 190 Escrow 110 Liability 110 Liquid 128.8 Escrow 110 Liability 110 (This is where UflÆs math goes wrong) Bob now has 128.8 isk in his wallet. He has 51 shares valued at 1.1 isk. There still exist 49 shares in stockholders hands valued at 1.1. If Bob keeps his shares then those shares can be deducted from the Escrow and added to the liquid. Liabilities will decline with Escrow as liabilities are secured by Escrow. Liquid 184.9 Escrow 53.9 Liabilities 53.9 If Bob resells under Nuex you must keep a 1 to 1 ratio so there is no net change. If Bob re-buys at the share value he must spend 53.9 and will gain 53.9 So Bob initially had 100 isk. He gains no isk from using Nuex. He made 100 isk in profit from his business. To buy back his shares and access his escrow he spent 15.1 isk, a net loss.
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Asteroid Bandit
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Posted - 2007.11.25 08:46:00 -
[102]
Beyond the poor accounting, bad math, horrible explanations, and lies is yet another problem, arrogance. There is a benefit to the Nuex system for corps who want to establish trust in order to gain revenue from IPOs for expansion. But there is also a community that must be appeased in order to gain that trust. Ufl has violated that communal trust by violating the laws by which it lives by. Cross posting, posting chat logs, posting pictures, these are not just laws handed down by moderators; these are the rules by which we govern our own actions. You have flagrantly violated them and when told of your transgressions superseded the customs of the forum posters invoking the line ôlet the mods deal with me.ö How are we supposed to trust someone who feels that their concerns are answerable only to the higher authorities not those whose trust you wish to gain? You write that your undertaking is about ego, and it certainly is that but your ego goes so far as to belittle the accomplishments of the EvE members who have created truly monumental institutions in comparison to your flawed endeavor.
If I have gotten any of this wrong please correct me, but as it stands you have not in my opinion created anything of value, nor earned the respect or trust necessary to attempt the creation of an enterprise such as the one you have moderately outlined.
Whew that was a long one.
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Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.25 09:48:00 -
[103]
That's what this all boils down to and the single most important failing point of the plan. Having to put trust into someone with no history whatsoever in order to secure yourself from someone else that may or may not have history.
I think it would require a rather well known person or group to deal in a similar business to what Ufl proposes, something I don't even think EBANK is ready for yet.
The plan itself may work with a few people, or can be modified to work with people but the underlying problem (trust in you) continues bringing us to a dead end. Ufl why don't you hang around on these forums and in-game for a year or two and then start your corporation.
Need Empire Research Slots. Click here |
I337
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Asteroid Bandit Beyond the poor accounting, bad math, horrible explanations, and lies is yet another problem, arrogance. There is a benefit to the Nuex system for corps who want to establish trust in order to gain revenue from IPOs for expansion. But there is also a community that must be appeased in order to gain that trust. Ufl has violated that communal trust by violating the laws by which it lives by. Cross posting, posting chat logs, posting pictures, these are not just laws handed down by moderators; these are the rules by which we govern our own actions. You have flagrantly violated them and when told of your transgressions superseded the customs of the forum posters invoking the line ôlet the mods deal with me.ö How are we supposed to trust someone who feels that their concerns are answerable only to the higher authorities not those whose trust you wish to gain? You write that your undertaking is about ego, and it certainly is that but your ego goes so far as to belittle the accomplishments of the EvE members who have created truly monumental institutions in comparison to your flawed endeavor.
If I have gotten any of this wrong please correct me, but as it stands you have not in my opinion created anything of value, nor earned the respect or trust necessary to attempt the creation of an enterprise such as the one you have moderately outlined.
Whew that was a long one.
I agree with almost everything you have said, and I am happy you understand how the NUEX system is to work.
I will earn the trust of the members here over time - there are a quarter million other players out of which I hope to get even 1%, which would be more than enough to push this concept forward.
If you dont believe in the system, or endorse it, dont invest in it but a year from now it will still be here, and a lot of the players who post on these boards wont.
In addition: Nuex now has its own forums, and will soon have its own voice chat, and hopefully soon video conference.
:)
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Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:35:00 -
[105]
Confirming that is my alt ^^^ Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.11.25 15:04:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Ufl Confirming that is my alt ^^^
We didn't need to confirmation, it was apparent. However with naming conventions like "l337" and "You fail" you say much about yourself and "New Con". Oh and don't think we are not fooled. You not only confirmed that l337 is your alt. You have now confirmed for us that you have multiple eve accounts as well. So... how many other things have you tried misleading us about?
Taikun's Lost Bet |
Asteroid Bandit
NOPHEX PRISIM
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Posted - 2007.11.25 19:42:00 -
[107]
Are you then suggesting that your corporation and ideas are fraudulent? I spent the majority of my post debunking a few of the claims you made that are flat out wrong. As it currently stands your "vision" statement is a hollow piece of false advertising designed to lure people into a service that that they don't understand.
It took me quite some time to work out the end result of your proposal and that result is not what you have written. Until you change your documentation to reflect your actual product all you have done is lay the groundwork for and made the announcement of the largest long con ever undertaken in EvE.
The members of the marketing forum have debunked your proposal but you seem determined to rope in other members of the eve community instead who have not analyzed your statements and would be enticed by the glossy vainer you have slapped on them.
Again if any of what I have said is untrue, challenge it. Show me how your math is actually correct and your statements true.
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Marie deMedici
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Posted - 2007.11.25 21:14:00 -
[108]
I have had a solution to this investor risk thingy for a while now ,but due to RL issues I havent had time to do the programming required: a futures exchange which will enable trading of risk related to corporations and events.
If somebody wants to implement it , I can give you some thoughts on it. I have everything figured out already.
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Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 23:51:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Asteroid Bandit Are you then suggesting that your corporation and ideas are fraudulent? I spent the majority of my post debunking a few of the claims you made that are flat out wrong. As it currently stands your "vision" statement is a hollow piece of false advertising designed to lure people into a service that that they don't understand.
It took me quite some time to work out the end result of your proposal and that result is not what you have written. Until you change your documentation to reflect your actual product all you have done is lay the groundwork for and made the announcement of the largest long con ever undertaken in EvE.
The members of the marketing forum have debunked your proposal but you seem determined to rope in other members of the eve community instead who have not analyzed your statements and would be enticed by the glossy vainer you have slapped on them.
Again if any of what I have said is untrue, challenge it. Show me how your math is actually correct and your statements true.
Well its simple, dont invest in us, it would be better if you waited to see it work - thats the whole idea of our system. Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2007.11.26 04:00:00 -
[110]
dam I haven't seen this post! I think i read it 2moro while OH at work
Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services Website
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ProudGallenteCitizen
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Posted - 2007.11.26 12:30:00 -
[111]
Edited by: ProudGallenteCitizen on 26/11/2007 12:30:09
Originally by: Ufl
Well its simple, dont invest in us, it would be better if you waited to see it work - thats the whole idea of our system.
Your scamming targets are the players that don't read the forums?
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GFBsolarman
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Posted - 2007.12.18 08:39:00 -
[112]
instead of trying to get a corp to issue stocks and back it by trit or isk to you why dont you do something like e-trade make it where people can buy and sell stocks from these corps and you get the nominal isk per trade and let it go like that. Corps would need to analyzed and all that stuff just like it is nowadays. now for someone to do this i would probably be interested in it as i play in the RL stock market but for a corp to just hand you everything is ludacris. but a program to buy and sell stock would be nice
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Wolfic
SGN Inc. deadspace society
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Posted - 2007.12.18 20:34:00 -
[113]
I could see something similar to this working under these circumstances:
1. The broker would require a percentage of an IPO funds up front depending on the history and trust of the CEO. For example a trusted CEO would put up 10% collateral vs a newcomer placing 50% collateral. With the funds to be payed out to the investors if the corp is a scam or goes defunct. This would at least reduce the risk to investors while still providing the ability to raise public funds.
2. The IPO corp would have to accept at least one member of the brokerage firm in the corporation in an oversight role. The auditor would be responsible for whatever security measures are appropriate (locking bpos etc) and auditing corporate spending to verify results.
3. In exchange for these services the brokerage firm then gets exclusive trading rights to the shares and can charge broker fees on all transactions, as well as interest free use of the collateral.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.18 20:51:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Wolfic 1. The broker would require a percentage of an IPO funds up front depending on the history and trust of the CEO. For example a trusted CEO would put up 10% collateral vs a newcomer placing 50% collateral. With the funds to be payed out to the investors if the corp is a scam or goes defunct. This would at least reduce the risk to investors while still providing the ability to raise public funds.
Collateral from the CEO does not work if it is immeadiately returned to him. Having the CEO give 1 billion to the broker prior to the broker giving the CEO 10 billion, has the same security as if the broker simply gave the CEO 9 billion. Having the CEO give 9 billion to the broker before receiving back 18 billion doesn't really change anything either. Thus there is no effective difference between having 10% and 50% collateral if it is not actually held as collateral.
Further, their is no advantage gained by having the broker hold collateral. If the CEO needed 9 billion as with the example above, there is no point raising 18 billion from investors just so that 9 billion can be returned in the event of a scam. The investors might as well only invest the 9 billion that the CEO needs and keep the other 9 billion for something more useful than siting in the brokers wallet. Originally by: Wolfic 2. The IPO corp would have to accept at least one member of the brokerage firm in the corporation in an oversight role. The auditor would be responsible for whatever security measures are appropriate (locking bpos etc) and auditing corporate spending to verify results.
Adding an extra character to the corp accomplishes nothing. If the CEO is going to scam, he will simply transfer the assets to another character outside the corp. Auditing is only useful for preventing partial scams and embezelment. Auditting such does not require an extra character, as API keys are sufficient. Auditting only keeps the honest honest, it does nothing to limit the dishonest. Originally by: Wolfic 3. In exchange for these services the brokerage firm then gets exclusive trading rights to the shares and can charge broker fees on all transactions, as well as interest free use of the collateral.
The only way to enforce exclusive trading rights is to by-pass the in-game shares and use out-of-game shares instead. Very little is gained by this.
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Luigi Thirty
Caldari 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.18 21:04:00 -
[115]
This is quite possibly the most intellectual flamefest I've ever read. ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLEBLUE:(((( |
Wolfic
SGN Inc. deadspace society
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Posted - 2007.12.18 21:28:00 -
[116]
Thanks for explaining that makes a lot of sense. I can still see a couple cases where a system like this could be used but in general it seems more trouble than it would be worth.
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Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.18 21:31:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Luigi Thirty This is quite possibly the most intellectual flamefest I've ever read.
It give me a headache just reading it all.
I think the premise is good. Protect the investors from getting scammed. As an investor I am all for that.
But from the CEO viewpoint, I keep coming back in my head to the fact that I have to put up as much ISK as I want to raise to secure my investment. So if I need 5 bil to start operations, I need to give you 5 bil.
Why would I ever need to raise public ISK if I already had it in my wallet? to raise my trust level with the other investors? I doubt it. I don't need their ISK. I had enough to start the project before I gave you the isk to secure my shares.
I hate to say this, but I think that you have a long road ahead of you to be successful, especially since the major players in the EVE investment circles are having lots of negative feedback. When they have doubts, I know I tend to look a lot closer a the business before I even consider getting involved in any manner.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.12.18 21:35:00 -
[118]
How many threads does this running joke need? _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Ufl
Caldari Nucon
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Posted - 2007.12.18 21:40:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan How many threads does this running joke need?
What do you care?
Just go trade on the EGSE or RSEX if you think my idea sucks... Best Regards Ufl Nucon Stock Exchange [OUR VISION]
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.18 21:44:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Ufl
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan How many threads does this running joke need?
What do you care?
We care because an excess of threads on a single topic makes it harder to find threads on other topics. I agree that it would be nice to keep discusion of NUEX to a single thread.
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