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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nigel Sheldon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 11:09:00 -
[91]
Well for me personally, i never liked the idea of buying GTC with ISK, it is cheating, however things changed when I got a major injury and now can not work and have 0 Income, so suddenly buying a GTC with ISK seems a very very tempting idea because otherwise I can't afford to play.
You have to look at it from that angle as well....
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Liv Forever
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Posted - 2007.11.25 11:25:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Liv Forever on 25/11/2007 11:26:33 I'm amazed this topic is still running. Obviously a lot of ppl feel strongly about it and it's been raised a number of times. Btw Nigel, the OP is addressing buying ISK with GTC not vice versa. If CCP sell time to ppl for ISK I don't see that as cheating. It is the reverse that seems dodgy. You have earned your ISK in game and maintained the integrity of ur in-game character and its relationship to the universe of EVE. If CCP want to reward u for ur efforts by giving u subscription for your in game efforts that doesnt contradict the basic premise of the 'buying ISK is cheating' argument. I don't see a problem with buying GTC with ISK. Buying ISK with GTC is the issue
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Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.25 11:40:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 25/11/2007 11:26:33 I'm amazed this topic is still running. Obviously a lot of ppl feel strongly about it and it's been raised a number of times. Btw Nigel, the OP is addressing buying ISK with GTC not vice versa. If CCP sell time to ppl for ISK I don't see that as cheating. It is the reverse that seems dodgy. You have earned your ISK in game and maintained the integrity of ur in-game character and its relationship to the universe of EVE. If CCP want to reward u for ur efforts by giving u subscription for your in game efforts that doesnt contradict the basic premise of the 'buying ISK is cheating' argument. I don't see a problem with buying GTC with ISK. Buying ISK with GTC is the issue
What you ask is that CCP will grant you play time directly for ISK What should they do with this ISK? Sell it all on e-bay?
I don't like GTCs, but I'm not concerned about it either, they exist, so what? Someone needs to spend his RL cash to satisfy his immense in-game ego? Too bad for him.
Press alt+F4 to reduce lag |
Kamoze
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Posted - 2007.11.25 11:42:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 25/11/2007 11:26:33 I'm amazed this topic is still running. Obviously a lot of ppl feel strongly about it and it's been raised a number of times. Btw Nigel, the OP is addressing buying ISK with GTC not vice versa. If CCP sell time to ppl for ISK I don't see that as cheating. It is the reverse that seems dodgy. You have earned your ISK in game and maintained the integrity of ur in-game character and its relationship to the universe of EVE. If CCP want to reward u for ur efforts by giving u subscription for your in game efforts that doesnt contradict the basic premise of the 'buying ISK is cheating' argument. I don't see a problem with buying GTC with ISK. Buying ISK with GTC is the issue
You like to use big words, but its the little things that show you talk out of your rear-end.
I'm not defending it in anyway, but if you don't like it, then why not leave? You're only 5days old? Not really a great length of time to gain any knowledge. I could goto dictionary.com and use great words, but I won't because i don't need to come across smart over the net.
Either way, can i have your stuff?
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Liv Forever
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Posted - 2007.11.25 11:43:00 -
[95]
Ok -thx for all ur posts. I have read all the arguments and I have been impressed by the maturity and intelligence of the EVE community. Even got a response from an important person. Virtual life and its relationship to RL will alway pose interesting philosophical dilemmas and since it is highly likely that more people will choose to spend more time in virtual reality then I am sure we have not wasted our time debating such issues. I rly have only been playing the game for 5 days so please excuse me for flogging a dead horse. Btw I have spent most of my 5 days afk indy mining so I could read forums and generate money doing irl things :) Please keep an eye out for my new post asking for opinions on this!!!
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.25 11:58:00 -
[96]
The whole Isk sales for RL money is a convoluted and flawed situation, for which CCP has a introduced a convoluted and flawed solution.
Unless you have a BETTER idea, dont be so quick to demand change.
Its the same thing for a lot of RL situation, both public and private. Its the way the world works, even in on line games. Always has, always will.
Its fine to state that the situation is flawed (as it truely is, and badly so....), but always be sure to SUPPORT the existing solution, flawed or not, unless you have a better one.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Liv Forever
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:14:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Kamoze
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 25/11/2007 11:26:33 I'm amazed this topic is still running. Obviously a lot of ppl feel strongly about it and it's been raised a number of times. Btw Nigel, the OP is addressing buying ISK with GTC not vice versa. If CCP sell time to ppl for ISK I don't see that as cheating. It is the reverse that seems dodgy. You have earned your ISK in game and maintained the integrity of ur in-game character and its relationship to the universe of EVE. If CCP want to reward u for ur efforts by giving u subscription for your in game efforts that doesnt contradict the basic premise of the 'buying ISK is cheating' argument. I don't see a problem with buying GTC with ISK. Buying ISK with GTC is the issue
You like to use big words, but its the little things that show you talk out of your rear-end.
I'm not defending it in anyway, but if you don't like it, then why not leave? You're only 5days old? Not really a great length of time to gain any knowledge. I could goto dictionary.com and use great words, but I won't because i don't need to come across smart over the net.
Either way, can i have your stuff?
ROFL -where exactly are the big words? Are you ESL? If you find my post difficult to understand then you are clearly semi-literate (woops sorry-too big!)-i mean stupid. the largest word I can find in my post is 'integrity' and the average 13 yr old has learned that in most delveloped nations. You made no intelligent argument ( and are probably incapable of doing so) and only posted to try to put me down. It's a good job that you don't need to sound smart on the net because you never will!
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Mira O'karr
Minmatar Templars of Space
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:25:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Mira O''karr on 25/11/2007 12:26:42
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:09:58 ... while others slowly and surely play their way towards the top (within the rules!) with their fists clenched and a mad glint in their eyes... and hard work INSIDE EVE... ... hard work INSIDE EVE... I have only been playing this game 5 days ... I am thinking of cancelling my subscription ... mining for hours and hours a day ...
dude, way too intense. please cancel your subscription now and get a job.
gtc sale allows people without money but time to play this game or run multiple accounts. it also allows people with money but no time to play or run multiple accounts.
CCP makes profit = good = eve to stay around for years to come.
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Liv Forever
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:31:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Liv Forever on 25/11/2007 12:31:48
Originally by: Mira O'karr Edited by: Mira O''karr on 25/11/2007 12:26:42
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:09:58 ... while others slowly and surely play their way towards the top (within the rules!) with their fists clenched and a mad glint in their eyes... and hard work INSIDE EVE... ... hard work INSIDE EVE... I have only been playing this game 5 days ... I am thinking of cancelling my subscription ... mining for hours and hours a day ...
dude, way too intense. please cancel your subscription now and get a job.
gtc sale allows people without money but time to play this game or run multiple accounts. it also allows people with money but no time to play or run multiple accounts.
CCP makes profit = good = eve to stay around for years to come.
I didn't write this :) It's quoted from EVE insider. I've only been playing a few days so i haven't started the grind yet so I was just asking peoples opinions.
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Mira O'karr
Minmatar Templars of Space
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:35:00 -
[100]
if you quote please make these quotes visible. else i have to assume its your drivel.
as it stands i hope you cancel. the last thing this game needs is another crybaby.
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Caine Azuris
Gallente Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:42:00 -
[101]
So you had enough time to find a qoute on the topic but not to research the topic itself, riiight. This right here shows that your probally just wanting attention and trying to ruffle some feathers. And yes we are ALL astounded by your monolithic words of mass proportions. If I wasent the multi-celled organism that I am I would probally call you out on your overuse of gigantic words.
In any case you have your answer. ------------
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Armoured C
Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:50:00 -
[102]
look 5 day old noobie guy
somepeople cant afford to pay the fee with RL monies so they use ingame currency
nothing is lost and nothing is gained
dont try and justify cheating when you only been in the game for 5 minutes >_>
sucessfulness in eve isnt just about how much isk you have you could have alot of isk and still not be sucessful ingame
niothing is lotst because eve still get the price in RL monies for the card they brought with ingame isk since someone else brought it and the value of it is paid back to the user it more of a trade which you obviously havent precieved
go off and count your frigs
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Liv Forever
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:55:00 -
[103]
I have made no reference to buying gametime with ISK, other than a reply to someone that I don't have a problem with it because u made the ISK in game. It is the reverse that this post was about but since all the people with 'multi cellular' brains appear to have gone to bed it should probably be closed.
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Nigel Sheldon
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:56:00 -
[104]
i can't afford to pay for my timecards in RL cause i can't currently work at the moment, so if i have to pay someone isk for a timecard I have no problem with this, i make enough isk doing what i do in game, so don't currently mind paying someone for a GTC.
make the money how you want too. If i could afford to buy amounts of GTC then i would sell tham for isk as well.......anything to get my jump freighter when it comes out ;)
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Armoured C
Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.11.25 12:59:00 -
[105]
mm jump frighter
and suggestion to the noob that made this thread at least read up on forums ect and play the game before posting pointless stuff
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Fanjita
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Posted - 2007.11.25 13:27:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Liv Forever Edited by: Liv Forever on 24/11/2007 23:09:58 First of all, money is power in EVE. Buying your way to power while others slowly and surely play their way towards the top (within the rules!) with their fists clenched and a mad glint in their eyes, is cheating. Plain and simple. EVE is intended to be a level playground where people either make it or not based solely on their abilities and hard work INSIDE EVE, not outside of it. It should not matter whether you are a rich man or a poor man in the real world. Once you enter the magnificent world of EVE Online, all that should matter is how well you put your abilities to use in the game and the thickness of oneÆs real world wallet should not be used to tip the balance-quoted from EVE insider
So why does CCP allow ppl to sell GTC for ISK-that uses real life money to buy in game currency. Ppl r not making money through hard work INSIDE EVE. I have only been playing this game 5 days and I know others have posted on this but I haven't seen an official response yet. I think that it is disgusting and hypocritical and ruins the PVE aspect of EVE completely. I am thinking of cancelling my subscription given that it debases such a massive part of the game. Why would i bother mining for hours and hours a day when i can work 15 minutes irl for the same reward. CCP PLEASE STOP FACILITATING PPL CHEATING. I would like an official response please-or to be directed to one.
so long as ccp employees get a nice fat pay check at the end of the month they really couldnt give two flying ****s about the subscribers, you just got to look at 0.0 with all the isk and macro farmers about, and the fact that ccp ignore a major issue that has been stopping legit players from playing since the last patch ccp have turned into nothing more than another money grubbing corporation sadly as they used to be really great.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.25 13:32:00 -
[107]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 25/11/2007 13:32:37 Time = ISK Time also = Money Alas some peoples Time is = to more Money than other peoples.
Therefore some people are always going to be able and willing to pay other people to farm for them.
Welcome to MMORPGs.
At least with GTCs CCP can a) track the currency (Why do you think they demand the use of the secure method?) and b) "tax" it.
The only part I find particularly sad in all of this is that it's another way for addicts to screw themselves over. EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Locnar
Caldari Amarr Internal Construction
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:10:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Liv Forever Blizzard would never sell gold in WOW and would not facilitate it.
Another WOW player wanting to change Eve... nothing to see here, move along...
PS: IIRC CCP sells the GTC's en mass to companies that in turn sell them to us to do with as we will. CCP decided to help curtail the eBay issue with in game content and facilitated the GTC/ISK scheme. Even if you have all the isk in Eve it wont matter if you havenett spent the 6months to a year skilling up. In WoW this would be an issue as you need to grind to gain skill and buying gold with rl money would seriously give you a BIG unfair advantage. And it realy comes down to allowing a larger group of players enjoy the game - power players can rat/mine/pewpew all day long and make isk. Casual players cant but because of the absolutel genius in how CCP designed the skill system having GTC for ISK keeps more people playing longer.
CCP sells GTC = $$$ More accounts paying monthly = $$$
Without the extra $$$ we wouldnt have all the free addons like the upcomming overhaul of the GFX engine and such (which probably called for an increase on the personnel front at CCP...)
All of his has been gone over before and tbh I feel a little dirty for adding to this troll thread...
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Caine 607
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:14:00 -
[109]
I for one have resigned myself to the fact that CCP's stated policy regarding GTC's is unlikely to change at any point in the foreseeable future. One need only to read the first page of responses to realise that there is a considerable and vocal support group busily extolling the virtues of this apparently innocuous act of officially endorsed duplicity.
I was reasonably impressed by some of the previous posters' comments concerning this issue and their apparent indifference based on the argument that no matter to what extent players, corporations or even alliances choose to take advantage of this deliberate 'loophole' (for lack of a better euphemism), it is unlikely to affect the majority of players' in-game experiences - not that it justifies the brazen hypocrisy of this otherwise nauseating ethical contradiction.
That said, I can't stand the argument that 'it helps balance the playing field for those who work too hard and those who apparently don't' - there's an alternative to that too... get a job then you too can experience the thrill of buying your way to recognition (all be it short lived) and you may even be introduced to alien concept of social exposure in the process.
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Earthan
Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:29:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Earthan on 25/11/2007 14:31:56 I hate any kind of rl money<->ingame stuff.
But CCP has done what it has done, dont think it will change anytime soon.Maybe its the best that can be done about the issue the CCP's solution , but i dont like it it anyway -
Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories |
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Onkadis
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:56:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Liv Forever EVE is intended to be a level playground where people either make it or not based solely on their abilities and hard work INSIDE EVE, not outside of it. It should not matter whether you are a rich man or a poor man in the real world.
This is another classic example of an individual imposing their particular wants on a game and attributing it to someone else. But think just for a second: how much money you have in the real world will determine what kind of computer hardware you can buy. Someone with more money can buy better, faster stuff. CCP knows this, all game design companies know this. Where you live in the world, what kind of internet connection you can afford, again, all affects your access to the game.
CCP has never tried to restrict the number of accounts a player can buy and own. The power of two system, in fact, encourages people to buy more accounts.
On a very simple, logical level your statement fails.
Quote: So why does CCP allow ppl to sell GTC for ISK-that uses real life money to buy in game currency.
It's a real convenience for people. Sometimes I have used isk to buy GTCs that I use to fund another character. I've collected isk for guys down on their luck who would have otherwise had to stop playing the game due to a lack of real-world money to let them keep going with the only real source of enjoyment in their lives. This 'game' has helped them get back on their feet because they were able to stay in touch with a group of supportive friends.
But more importantly, it's a service they can provide people that has no impact on the economy, and gives people an opportunity to who do this sort of thing anyways (and it happens in any MMO where there's a market) to do it through a legitimate route that CCP can control that has a null effect on the economy.
Quote: CCP PLEASE STOP FACILITATING PPL CHEATING. I would like an official response please-or to be directed to one.
It's not cheating. It's a game mechanic that CCP set-up. They've talked about this in hundreds of places. So, you're going to have to understand that in a community this large they can't spend the time on every body who comes in for a week and threatens to quit because they think something's unfair.
There's little to no downside to using this system, and plenty of upside. The fact that your sense of fair play is offended a bit is not something that most of the people in this game are going to worry too much about.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.11.25 14:59:00 -
[112]
It's really not cheating if the owners of the game condone it, now is it? _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.11.25 15:03:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan It's really not cheating if the owners of the game condone it, now is it?
It's more like extreme metagaming. From your characters perspective you suddenly get ISK for no reason at all.
But yeah, it is hard to call it cheating when it doesn't actually break any rules... -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.25 15:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Cpt Fina Legalizing something just because you can't effectively stop it? Nice logic.
Actually, it IS the most logic course of action possible, and REAL-LIFE governments could learn a thing or two from that practice. Does "prohibition" ring a bell here ? You know, that thing in the early 20th century in the USA, when alcohool was illegal ? You know how great that turned out to be, and how long it lasted. C|S|I|N|x. |
Caine 607
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.25 15:55:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Akita T Actually, it IS the most logic course of action possible, and REAL-LIFE governments could learn a thing or two from that practice. Does "prohibition" ring a bell here ? You know, that thing in the early 20th century in the USA, when alcohool was illegal ? You know how great that turned out to be, and how long it lasted.
The difference is, as far as I recall the state didn't follow up its draconian ban with a policy that dictated its right to be the sole vendor of alcohol !
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fell1234
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Posted - 2007.11.25 16:35:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cpt Fina Legalizing something just because you can't effectively stop it? Nice logic.
Actually, it IS the most logic course of action possible, and REAL-LIFE governments could learn a thing or two from that practice. Does "prohibition" ring a bell here ? You know, that thing in the early 20th century in the USA, when alcohool was illegal ? You know how great that turned out to be, and how long it lasted.
This is a pretty moronic stance. No set of laws stop or prevent ANY activity 100%. Put adding a punishment to a behavior sure as hell reduces and moderates how many people do it. You cant possibly think that the amount of isk selling/buying in EVE would remain the same if it was an instant and permanent ban do you?
Even ILLEGAL isk buying doesn't get your character banned and that IS cheating. Also the OP was quoting CCP so its obviously something that even some CCP employees find stupid. People able to pay for a month of game time with isk is cool and is a neat feature. Allowing people to convert thousands of dollars into billions of isk is in every way bad for a pvp centric game. Accounts should only be able to do one GTC to isk transfer per whatever period that GTC is for. Would allow people to play on isk. And allow some people to augment their in game means. But it would keep it moderated to reasonable levels.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:19:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot The whole Isk sales for RL money is a convoluted and flawed situation, for which CCP has a introduced a convoluted and flawed solution.
Unless you have a BETTER idea, dont be so quick to demand change.
Its the same thing for a lot of RL situation, both public and private. Its the way the world works, even in on line games. Always has, always will.
Its fine to state that the situation is flawed (as it truely is, and badly so....), but always be sure to SUPPORT the existing solution, flawed or not, unless you have a better one.
Well said. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
fell1234
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:25:00 -
[118]
Quote: This is another classic example of an individual imposing their particular wants on a game and attributing it to someone else. But think just for a second: how much money you have in the real world will determine what kind of computer hardware you can buy. Someone with more money can buy better, faster stuff. CCP knows this, all game design companies know this. Where you live in the world, what kind of internet connection you can afford, again, all affects your access to the game.
Those are the words of a CCP employee posted on a CCP posted forum...idiot
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Rilus
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Posted - 2007.11.25 23:13:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Just as isk-trading. It's not impossible to fight it's just hard. According to CCP several accounts, both buyers and sellers have been banned. So i really can't see how you can say it's unenforceable.
Well, if consider the following options: a) prohibit ALL kind of ISK for cash transactions and since the ban cannot be reasonably enforced, players will STILL buy ISK through sites and whatnot but scams and bans will go up and the ones to benefit the most will be the ISK sellers or the scammers. b) Allow a controlled form of ISK for cash and minimize scams and the ones to benefit will be the players and CCP.
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Rilus
To answer your question: If a law is not enforceable, it should be removed.
Given the fact that CCP can and have done something about the problem it shows that they got atleast some means to fight it. And no I don't agree with your logic. If some lawforming entity of some sort thinks that some action is morally undefendable and generally bad for the citizens (like domestic violence/abuse) it should not sanction it by the simple reason that they have a hard time dealing with it.
Even if all the most moral and upstanding "entities" agree that mean thoughts should be banned, it is irrelevant and not reasonably enforceable, therefore such a law should never exist.
For a more modern and realistic example, think of the current anti-piracy wars. The laws against it are not currently reasonably enforceable since grandmas, kids, doctors, lawyers, and people of every class, age, and economic stratus download all kinds of content illegally. Anti-piracy laws int he United States will never be enforceable en force, lest we rouse the rage of the great majority of people (more each day.)
Another controversial example is that of US "war on drugs." While this war has made a difference in drug consumption and traffic, it has also created terrifyingly powerful carters in many countries that have done untold crimes. Not to mention that, sometimes, the drugs that are still being trafficked into the US can contain toxins that can make the drugs even more dangerous than normal.
So, again, the question is this: What's the lesser of the two evils?
Honorable thoughts or good intentions have to be weighed against reality.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.11.25 23:58:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Buyerr on 26/11/2007 00:04:34
Originally by: cal nereus If CCP says it isn't cheating, it isn't. It's their game, they set the rules, and the rest of us are just players. We don't own any part of their game. If it gets really bad, we can stop playing. I'm sure CCP knows this, which is why they probably won't openly condone what is generally perceived as cheating.
but at the same time banning isk sellers and people that buy isk... it is kind of a paradox that doesn't make sense :S
either they should make it legal, or illegal. saying "well we are to stupid, incompetent or whatever the reason is, and then just saying well then i guess it is okey, we can't stop then so why not join them ^^" :D
yup that is the right way to enforce a "law/rule" mmmHmmm.. which country do you life in again?! ;)
NO the right way and very easy way to do it, is just hardcore banning any one selling or buying isk for RL cash. which isn't that hard btw.
isk have gone from 34$ to 4$ in eve (+-) while in other games like wow it have gone up in price... what does this tell you ?! that ccp ain't doing **** about it while blizzard are...
so there, if you wanted to stop it, it would be easy, the way they are "cleaning" isk on is so pathetically easy to see. contract scams loled!. as if that would be legal inside the game anyway :P
ccp is 100% responsible for the isk sellers and you can see in the cost of isk that they clearly are either too incompetent to do anything or just don't care to do anything..
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