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Jon Asus
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:00:00 -
[1]
Someone is starting a Titan bpc IPO...
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=10880
What does everyone think of this?
I think it's one hell of an idea, I personally don't think that titan BPCs are the reason we're not seeing everyone with a titan. I think everyone who can have one, already has the infrastructure to make one and therefore don't need this ipo to sell them a bpc. However I could very well be wrong, supercap ships and the like aren't my area of knowledge after all.
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LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:05:00 -
[2]
People who speak to me often, knows that i have had this in mind for quite a while(a month or 2). I have had the business plan in place for a while too, but didnt release it due to the capital nerfs everywhere.
Will it work? Maybe. Will it be succesful? Yes, if he can liquidate the BPO at some point.
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Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:09:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Shin Ra on 02/12/2007 17:09:21 Remember I am a known scammer too. Should you trust me? Probably not.
Just getting this out the way Dark Shikari
Also here is the link to the thread on scrapheap.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:16:00 -
[4]
I pity the fool who tries this right now. Maybe in another year or two this will be viable. Currently? No way.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:21:00 -
[5]
I'm in the unique position of running a supercapital bpo copying IPO. It works if the market holds up but in my experience, demand is so limited that the market isn't stable. As well as that, the fact that one bad change in a patch would eliminate the entire target market and that some very rich but very stupid people could start up copycat schemes is why I don't suggest doing it.
The other issues are reselling the bpo and the bpc price. Reselling the bpo is just not going to happen and the bpc prices are very overrated. I've seen the bpcs on sale by M Pire for a price of 10b. The sale post shin ra linked to shows two characters, one buying the bpc and the other selling. The buying character has since been deleted and the selling character is a 2004 character that has no standings whatsoever, so they've never in their eve career shot at an NPC or done a mission but they have been playing continually since 2004 (as evidenced by them joining various corps). It's someone's alt.
Putting faith in those prices is a little misguided but I like the IPO design.
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Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nyphur I'm in the unique position of running a supercapital bpo copying IPO. It works if the market holds up but in my experience, demand is so limited that the market isn't stable. As well as that, the fact that one bad change in a patch would eliminate the entire target market and that some very rich but very stupid people could start up copycat schemes is why I don't suggest doing it.
The other issues are reselling the bpo and the bpc price. Reselling the bpo is just not going to happen and the bpc prices are very overrated. I've seen the bpcs on sale by M Pire for a price of 10b. The sale post shin ra linked to shows two characters, one buying the bpc and the other selling. The buying character has since been deleted and the selling character is a 2004 character that has no standings whatsoever, so they've never in their eve career shot at an NPC or done a mission but they have been playing continually since 2004 (as evidenced by them joining various corps). It's someone's alt.
Putting faith in those prices is a little misguided but I like the IPO design.
I already have interested parties so I think 20 bil or even more than this is possible. Titan prices on the general market right now are as yet unfounded, so nobody can truly know how much a BPC is worth.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Nyphur on 02/12/2007 17:34:40
Originally by: Shin Ra I already have interested parties so I think 20 bil or even more than this is possible. Titan prices on the general market right now are as yet unfounded, so nobody can truly know how much a BPC is worth.
When I investigated the possibility of a titan bpc ipo ages ago, I discovered that the profit wasn't high enough. That may have changed but I doubt that the market is going to be stable for a year or more. As a longterm investment, this is not something I'd reccomend. If you do go ahead with it and it's not a scam, good luck.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shin Ra I already have interested parties so I think 20 bil or even more than this is possible. Titan prices on the general market right now are as yet unfounded, so nobody can truly know how much a BPC is worth.
Can we say tire kickers? I've always found the formula of (Interest/25 people = Buyers) to be roughly indicative of what you'll really find on the back end of any plan. I also found that of the resulting Buyers you'll find (Interested Price * 0.50 = What they'll really pay) to be the reality on the other side of this. In my experience, I've noticed that so called interested buyers are more often just trying to manipulate motivated individuals into doing something solely for the purpose of getting them out on the limb. Once you make your purchases, do your research, and have copies floundering on the market. Then you'll find your interested buyers will approach you and do it with the attitude of you need them, not they need you. And it'll be true.
Taikun's Lost Bet |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Can we say tire kickers? I've always found the formula of (Interest/25 people = Buyers) to be roughly indicative of what you'll really find on the back end of any plan. I also found that of the resulting Buyers you'll find (Interested Price * 0.50 = What they'll really pay) to be the reality on the other side of this.
It varies from person to person and business to business. I got most of my interested parties in on PIF and 50% on PSRS. It's all down to the execution of the IPO and the person behind it. It's influenced heavily simply by the IPO document's thoroughness, attention to detail and how safe it makes people feel to have their money with you. You could have the best business plan in the world but if you pitch it wrong, it won't stick.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 17:54:00 -
[10]
The thing is this is so different from any other situation. Due to the massive value, a little difference is a big difference. So yes this is risky, it could fall flat on its face. But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:04:00 -
[11]
Quote: Projected Return Dividends will be issued every time a bpc is sold approx every 110 days depending on how long it takes to sell. To give you an idea of the kind of return to expect: Selling Price û Average return per share/month 25 bil - 10.48% 20 bil - 8.39% 15 bil - 6.29% 10 bil - 4.19%
This right here is the reason not to bother with this.
Why on earth would someone buy a BPC for 25 bil when they could buy the BPO for 65 bil. If you have the money to build a titan and afford a 25 bil BPC then you can also afford a 65 bill bpo.
I see 10 billion, at most 15 billion being viable. This would go up to MAYBE 20ish if you researched to ME1, but that would delay profits for months.
On top of everything else, this is an extremely risky IPO. Run by someone very lacking in credibility/trust. Anyone who puts a penny into this deserves exactly what they get back from it. Ultra high risk with at BEST 10.5% returns? Come on, we can find relatively low risk IPO's that come close or meet that.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shin Ra But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
Um, no it can't. At best it is going to return 10.6% per month. That is not stupidly high. Even if you got 30-35 bil for the BPC (which we all know you won't), it wouldn't be stupidly high returns.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:18:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nyphur on 02/12/2007 18:18:54
Originally by: Shin Ra The thing is this is so different from any other situation. Due to the massive value, a little difference is a big difference. So yes this is risky, it could fall flat on its face. But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
It's different from any other situation EXCEPT a mothership bpo copying IPO, which is something I run. The risk is too great, in my opinion, and even I am trying to sell off my ms bpo assets and move into other markets.
The risks in your scheme come from: - Risk of outright scamming - Risk of bpo loss (It was not explained how the bpo would be bought, moved and used so the buyer will be wary). - Risk of bpc loss by the lab getting attacked. - Risk of lowered profits by lapse of lab POS fueling. - Risk of bpc loss when transporting it to the buy location or a neutral location (because if you don't move it somewhere, you're giving the buyer your POS location). - Risk of lower than expected returns since people may be tempted to buy a bpo instead of a bpc if bpcs are over 10b. - Risk of lower than expected returns because people expect ME 1 BPCs. - Risk of the entire market disappearing due to a patch removing demand.
And finally, I wouldn't consider 10% (your theoretical maximum) stupidly high returns. I pay 10% on PIF and there's isk to spare.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 02/12/2007 18:18:54
Originally by: Shin Ra The thing is this is so different from any other situation. Due to the massive value, a little difference is a big difference. So yes this is risky, it could fall flat on its face. But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
It's different from any other situation EXCEPT a mothership bpo copying IPO, which is something I run. The risk is too great, in my opinion, and even I am trying to sell off my ms bpo assets and move into other markets.
The risks in your scheme come from: - Risk of outright scamming - Risk of bpo loss (It was not explained how the bpo would be bought, moved and used so the buyer will be wary). - Risk of bpc loss by the lab getting attacked. - Risk of lowered profits by lapse of lab POS fueling. - Risk of bpc loss when transporting it to the buy location or a neutral location (because if you don't move it somewhere, you're giving the buyer your POS location). - Risk of lower than expected returns since people may be tempted to buy a bpo instead of a bpc if bpcs are over 10b. - Risk of lower than expected returns because people expect ME 1 BPCs. - Risk of the entire market disappearing due to a patch removing demand.
And finally, I wouldn't consider 10% (your theoretical maximum) stupidly high returns. I pay 10% on PIF and there's isk to spare.
Damn you for putting that all into a nice list... now people will quote you instead of me, even tho we agree completely.
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Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 02/12/2007 18:18:54
Originally by: Shin Ra The thing is this is so different from any other situation. Due to the massive value, a little difference is a big difference. So yes this is risky, it could fall flat on its face. But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
It's different from any other situation EXCEPT a mothership bpo copying IPO, which is something I run. The risk is too great, in my opinion, and even I am trying to sell off my ms bpo assets and move into other markets.
The risks in your scheme come from: - Risk of outright scamming - Risk of bpo loss (It was not explained how the bpo would be bought, moved and used so the buyer will be wary). - Risk of bpc loss by the lab getting attacked. - Risk of lowered profits by lapse of lab POS fueling. - Risk of bpc loss when transporting it to the buy location or a neutral location (because if you don't move it somewhere, you're giving the buyer your POS location). - Risk of lower than expected returns since people may be tempted to buy a bpo instead of a bpc if bpcs are over 10b. - Risk of lower than expected returns because people expect ME 1 BPCs. - Risk of the entire market disappearing due to a patch removing demand.
And finally, I wouldn't consider 10% (your theoretical maximum) stupidly high returns. I pay 10% on PIF and there's isk to spare.
I would call 10% pretty damn high.
I'm not about to write up a full trp, if you are smart you will know there are risks. Some have been nicely outlined here.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shin Ra I'm not about to write up a full trp, if you are smart you will know there are risks. Some have been nicely outlined here.
An hour spent writing up a complete IPO document will save you weeks of gathering investments and could make the difference between succeeding and failing. Remember, you're not pitching this to informed individuals who have fully researched the market, you're pitching it to the general public. The more information, the better.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.02 19:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Shadarle on 02/12/2007 19:03:43
Originally by: Shin Ra I would call 10% pretty damn high.
Really? 10% is high? Compared to what, past scams?
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.12.02 19:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Shin Ra I would call 10% pretty damn high.
Really? 10% is high? Compared to what, past scams?
10% is high for an honest, reliable long-term business. For a crazy high-risk scheme, 10% is not high, especially when the 10% is only achieved through ridiculously high sale prices and the predicted return can go as low as 4%.
Maybe I missed something but where is Shin Ra making isk off this? Is 100% of profit going to the shareholders?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.02 20:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Shin Ra I would call 10% pretty damn high.
Really? 10% is high? Compared to what, past scams?
10% is high for an honest, reliable long-term business. For a crazy high-risk scheme, 10% is not high, especially when the 10% is only achieved through ridiculously high sale prices and the predicted return can go as low as 4%.
Maybe I missed something but where is Shin Ra making isk off this? Is 100% of profit going to the shareholders?
Not sure why anyone would trust a scammer with more money in the first place. I haven't considered this a realistic IPO at all, instead I've been treating it as a concept... and I think selling Titan BPC's is a bad concept. If you could copy them faster then maybe, but there is no way the price will go higher for the BPC's... the only place they can go is down.
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Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 21:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Shin Ra I would call 10% pretty damn high.
Really? 10% is high? Compared to what, past scams?
10% is high for an honest, reliable long-term business. For a crazy high-risk scheme, 10% is not high, especially when the 10% is only achieved through ridiculously high sale prices and the predicted return can go as low as 4%.
Maybe I missed something but where is Shin Ra making isk off this? Is 100% of profit going to the shareholders?
I charge no fee as there is so little work involved. I plan on purchasing as many additional shares as I can as quickly, as I can.
Here is a nice pdf for you: http://eve-files.com/dl/137585
Feel free to poke holes in it, though if its "half empty" anyway it won't have much effect
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.12.02 21:39:00 -
[21]
I would invest in you ShinRa, just for the sheer entertainment your post on Eve-o have brought me over the years. Unfortunetly, I never invest in Cap Ship IPO's as a rule, market is too fickle a mistress.
Good luck with the plans though.
:) --
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Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 21:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Treelox I would invest in you ShinRa, just for the sheer entertainment your post on Eve-o have brought me over the years. Unfortunetly, I never invest in Cap Ship IPO's as a rule, market is too fickle a mistress.
Good luck with the plans though.
:)
Treelox, I have put 10 mil isk from my own wallet on your behalf. I am sending you a share now
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.12.02 21:46:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Treelox on 02/12/2007 21:46:54
Originally by: Shin Ra
Treelox, I have put 10 mil isk from my own wallet on your behalf. I am sending you a share now
<3
Once I get back home and to a real computer, I might even consider paying you back that 10mil. Been in the backwoods of civilization the last month, should be home again in about a week.
--
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Shuan Jedai
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.03 05:57:00 -
[24]
Funny how it seems to sell like hot cakes in SHC.
Madness. |
Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.12.03 06:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shuan Jedai Edited by: Shuan Jedai on 03/12/2007 06:13:27 Seems to sell like hot cakes in SHC.
Weird.
That begs the question, is ShinRa more a rockstar on SHC than here in MD, or is the consumer base of SHC less savy about risk assesment than the unwashed masses here in MD? --
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.03 06:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shin Ra The thing is this is so different from any other situation. Due to the massive value, a little difference is a big difference. So yes this is risky, it could fall flat on its face. But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
Yes, it'll generate 100% return in only a few weeks! Well, for you, that is.
Originally by: Treelox That begs the question, is ShinRa more a rockstar on SHC than here in MD, or is the consumer base of SHC less savy about risk assesment than the unwashed masses here in MD?
Both.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated) |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.03 07:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Shin Ra The thing is this is so different from any other situation. Due to the massive value, a little difference is a big difference. So yes this is risky, it could fall flat on its face. But at the same time it could generate stupidly high returns.
Yes, it'll generate 100% return in only a few weeks! Well, for you, that is.
Originally by: Treelox That begs the question, is ShinRa more a rockstar on SHC than here in MD, or is the consumer base of SHC less savy about risk assesment than the unwashed masses here in MD?
Both.
There really isn't any need to continue with this thread, DS just about wrapped it up with that post.
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Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.03 08:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Shuan Jedai Edited by: Shuan Jedai on 03/12/2007 06:13:27 Seems to sell like hot cakes in SHC.
Weird.
That begs the question, is ShinRa more a rockstar on SHC than here in MD, or is the consumer base of SHC less savy about risk assesment than the unwashed masses here in MD?
Or is the admin of SHC personally vouching for his trustworthiness? Gee, I wonder why it might sell.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.03 08:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zhecao Vai
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Shuan Jedai Edited by: Shuan Jedai on 03/12/2007 06:13:27 Seems to sell like hot cakes in SHC.
Weird.
That begs the question, is ShinRa more a rockstar on SHC than here in MD, or is the consumer base of SHC less savy about risk assesment than the unwashed masses here in MD?
Or is the admin of SHC personally vouching for his trustworthiness? Gee, I wonder why it might sell.
Would you invest in Dentara Rast if Calmdown vouched for him?
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated) |
Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.03 09:27:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 03/12/2007 09:28:21
Originally by: Dark Shikari Would you invest in Dentara Rast if Calmdown vouched for him?
Well I don't know a thing about Calmdown, but Tolon vouched for him, and I'd invest in Satan's Own Titan Investment Fund if Tolon vouched for him. I imagine a lot of SHC regulars who hang out in IRC and whatever-the-hell with Calmdown and Spiraljunkie feel the same way about their good word.
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