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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2929
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Posted - 2012.03.11 18:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ah, see there, there's the thing - there are people (probably not many!) like myself, who would exclusively run anti-faction missions if i) the option was offered to us and ii) the distribution of the missions (namely, a Gallente agent offering anti-Caldari missions and vice versa. If these conditions were changed, the tags would flow...true there would be some tag value deflation with increased availability, but of course not everyone will want to run the anti-empire missions :)
Don't forget that this proposal, Diamaht, is exlcusively concerned with increasing the tag supply via the choice of exclusive anti-faction missions; it's not about looking at the tag requirements in the LP stores (as the increase tag supply will rectify the disproportionate requirements).
Thanks for your support!
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
924
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Posted - 2012.03.12 13:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Diamaht Nevain wrote:One thing they may want to consider is reducing or even eliminating the faction hits with these missions. They seem like a needless restriction and are the reason you can't find tags on the market. They would be fine if we had an economy that was spread even, but we don't. A Gallente mission runner needs Jita a lot more than a Caldari mission runner needs Dodixie.
I think that faction hits could be balanced a bit, using that as a way to adjust the supply of tags if this was implemented, but I think the faction hits are good to have because it gives you a tradeoff. Bear in mind that you really can buy pretty much anything in any of the four major trade hubs, though some stuff is slightly marked up (I haven't been to Jita in months myself). And everyone does have three slots on their account, tossing together a Jita alt doesn't take much effort.
I think that this proposal would go a long way towards making the tag market actually work well, due to people being able to choose to go for anti-faction missions, and would love to see it implemented. The faction hits can be re-balanced after the market stabilizes if it turns out there's too much/too little change in the tag market. |
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
29
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Posted - 2012.03.13 05:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'd rather see something opposite implemented - Replace all bounties with tags and then diversify the tags required by LP stores a bit (so it's not only the other faction tags, but also pirate ones).
This would have the same effect on LP stores, as now you'd have an abundance of tags, however it would make 0.0 rating a bit harder, where it wouldn't just be - kill rats receive isk, but you'd need to transport all your tags to empire as well to sell them.
It would also make marauders more desirable, as you could get your tags while running missions / ratting, would make ninja salvagers (or rather ninja looters) much more common.
Suicide gankers would have more targets.
You could still convert those tags into isk by selling them at a concord or faction navy station, but it would be a bit more complicated. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2942
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Posted - 2012.03.13 08:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think you're talking about a rather more radical, revolutionary overhaul of the LP/tags system than the evolutionary model presented here. I think it is quite important to preserve rat bounties (whether at their present levels, who knows...) because, as we know, diversity is fun!
In a way, too, I think it would greatly overcomplicate things - imagine, after a couple of months of missioning and hoarding, you look in your hangar and are faced with dozens and dozens of different types of tag, and you think "WTF". I believe that the current system holds the basis for a new, workable tags system - give the pilot the choice whether to fly anti-pirate or anti-faction missions exclusively (or the current random system, for those who truly don't care). You must also remember that the distribution of anti-faction missions for ALL factions is completely borked too, by the way...
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
74
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Posted - 2012.03.13 11:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
If you want to run anti-faction missions and get tags, you can take them as they come in highsec, move to lowsec and do FW missions/plexes or L5s, or move to nullsec and do pirate missions. There's plenty of options for amassing as many tags as you could possibly want. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Narwhals Ate My Duck
70
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Posted - 2012.03.13 20:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
As a former mission runner, some of the tag requirements for certain items are ridiculous.
You'd find modules that require 400 tags of one type of tag, additional 200 of another, and finally another 100.
Making the cost of the modules astronomically higher than variants you can get from pirates that work just as well and are much cheaper.
There is a reason why you never see imperial navy medium energy neutralizers and some others on the contract. Its just ridiculous to get the amount of tags needed to get them. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2961
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Posted - 2012.03.14 12:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:If you want to run anti-faction missions and get tags, you can take them as they come in highsec, move to lowsec and do FW missions/plexes or L5s, or move to nullsec and do pirate missions. There's plenty of options for amassing as many tags as you could possibly want.
No. There is a fundamental imbalance in the distribution of tags AND the tag requirements in the LP store to effectively render most of the items in there totally unobtainable. It's not simply a matter of 'Go and run FW/Lvl 5 missions'
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
248
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Posted - 2012.03.17 12:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hullo all,
Bumble has gone on holiday for a couple of months and has asked me to inform you that I will be monitoring this thread and responding to any questions/ideas. Thanks! :) |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
255
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:As a former mission runner, some of the tag requirements for certain items are ridiculous.
You'd find modules that require 400 tags of one type of tag, additional 200 of another, and finally another 100.
Making the cost of the modules astronomically higher than variants you can get from pirates that work just as well and are much cheaper.
There is a reason why you never see imperial navy medium energy neutralizers and some others on the contract. Its just ridiculous to get the amount of tags needed to get them.
I believe that I made some Small/Medium Ammatar Neuts at one point and even thought (in my little head) that I made a profit, but most likely I was deluding myself lol :)
As funny as that is, though, it's just sad that some of the frigate-sized items are literally unobtainable due to the costs involved. You're very often better off buying a faction or even deadspace item for the cost of the tags to get that Small Federation Navy Armour Repairer, or w/e.
This is a sad sad state of affairs - please fix it, CCP! |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
295
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Posted - 2012.04.11 11:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Back to the top - fix the LP stores, fix EVE! :) |
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MastaRob
Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 19:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Great suggestion, support this change.
And as discussion, adjusting drop rates for certain tags and reducing negative faction impact of anti-faction missions, would both help loads as well. All three would be total problem solved, and the faction LP rewards market would suddenly become functional.
Such a simple change!!! Come on CCP.... |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
320
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Posted - 2012.04.12 20:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
The tags are actually a nice aspect of the lp store. The lp stores used to be one of the better self balancing methods of pay for pve in eve.
However I think there were 2 hamfisted things that ccp has done to throw this nice system out of whack:
1) They increased the faction mod drops in null sec which in turn can drive down the prices of the lp store items since they compete.
2) They gave incursion runners "super lp" that they can use in any lp store thereby destroying the self balancing aspect of the lp store.
The items in the lp store have stayed about the same and maybe rose up in price a bit. But the tags have increased in price more than the increase on in the item price. Hence the profit margins are slimmer. The reason the tags have increased in price is the demand for them has gone up due to incursion super lp but the supply has not.
Now the supply of these tags may start to go up from faction war and more people taking these missions but because of the huge amount of "super lp" incursion farmers have accumulated the lp store will remain a place with very tight margins. Not only that the tags have a limit as to how high they can reach because of the faction drops in null sec. Dread guristas shield hardeners keep Caldari navy ones from increasing very much. And this is what keeps the value of tags low.
Normally what would happen is if the tags go up in price but the items aren't going up in price much you could run missions for a different corp. But incursion runners get so much direct isk on top of their "ultimate lp" that they continue to dampen the best lp markets. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
298
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Posted - 2012.04.13 18:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Thank you for both of your suggestions and support - I really do wish CCP would look at tag distribution and give it some more love :( |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
482
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Posted - 2012.04.14 20:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
remove tags completely let them drop in FW players
if i have 200 kills and i get killed my wreck should have a tag depending on my faction make it dependant on ship class or market value of the kill... make the amount random 1-5 tags. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
328
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Posted - 2012.04.25 15:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
What about non-FW mission runners, then? |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
173
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Posted - 2012.04.25 16:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Perhaps people should scoop more tags in missions now that they are so expensive? Shouldn't players be rewarded with expensive tags in return for losing access to certain high sec regions?
The only problem I have with the LP store is that the tag requirements are enormous for some items - which I guess means CCP wants those items to be for vanity items than for utility.
But I would love to regularly fit up Fed Navy mods on my Fed navy comet... |
Ayame Tao
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.04.25 16:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
I do feel the tag requirements are too high.
As everything in EvE is based around risk/reward and time/reward LP store tag requirements are too high.
The LP store's purpose (IMO) is to provide mission incentive by rewarding shiny objects to those choosing to devote time to missions over anomolies by providing faction gear every so often.
The trend that nobody uses LP or Tags for acquiring faction items, but rather purely as an income generator based on how much ISK/LP ratio you can make on contracting your LP items or selling tags on the market at inflated prices for those who want to avoid the lowsec/FW/standing hit.
It's less hassle to just buy a Navy Invul off of contracts than from the LP store. At 300 million for tags, plus 72 million for the LP store price, its only 100 million more to buy one. That's like 4 missions in ISK (+bounty +salvage) vs. 30 ish missions in LP.
I don't think it will change as too many people use LP as a supplemental mission income and a key component of how much ISK/hour they make grinding missions. I just wish it wasn;t about churning them out like a bot and more about enjoying a PvE experience in acheiving a goal of being entrusted with soem shiny faction kit in reward for your service.
If some of the ideas presetned here were adopted i.e. tags were much more easy to come by, then I think the LP store would operate much more as a nice bonus than an ISK stream. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
339
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Good points! I feel that by just allowing people to choose either anti-pirate OR anti-faction missions (or the current mix of the two, as at present), it will greatly increase the tag availability and thereby make using the LP a more pleasant occurance. I also might not totally object if CCP raised the tag requirements of the stores slightly, to compensate for the slightly increased supply, as right now my main gripe with the system is that simply too few anti-faction missions are on offer (and they are also generally slanted against the wrong enemy of the faction!). |
Corian Teranos
Among the Shadows Ex umbra.
4
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Actually i support the OP's original idea about selecting between political and law enforcement missions. i am actually shot on sight by gallente navy through no fault of my own. with the stiff standing penalties from declining agent missions i have had to suffer some unwanted standings loss due to those goddamn political missions. personally i dont see why i am getting standing loss for missions like that after all the hostile forces are in YOUR SPACE violating YOUR FACTIONS LAWS. so if any standing would go down it would be the diplomatic relations between the two sides not the pilot who blew up some navy rats. in the grand scheme of things noone ever blames the soldiers for a international incident. In a perfect world only militia activity and random acts of violence would trigger criminal status. but this is eve so i will settle for having a choice between political and law enforcement missions. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
340
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Choices are good |
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Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
352
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Posted - 2012.05.10 10:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Bumble sends his regards and thanks for all of the support thus far. Keep the comments coming! |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
352
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Posted - 2012.05.10 10:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Bumblefck wrote:The problem: For a lot of LP store items, it is simply unprofitable (even, in some cases, virtually impossible) to acquire the tags required to purchase items Tags need to go.
Bit late to the fray with this, but why do you say that? What would you replace them with? |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
394
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Posted - 2012.05.14 18:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
/me longs for the day that it's feasible (from a non-insane economic viewpoint) to buy a Comet and fit it with a Fed Navy 1MN AB and Fed Navy guns
/cries |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
486
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Posted - 2012.05.19 09:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
As Michael Jackson would say..."Make that change" |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
639
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Posted - 2012.05.25 10:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
^^ |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
3313
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
I sincerely believe that this issue will solve a lot of problems, if implemented :)
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
209
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Supported. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
3313
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Supported.
Thanks
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
209
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
Your welcome.
I do see a potentially small problem with this. In general, almost everyone I talk to avoids missions against the other main factions like the plague. If you gave people the option to never have to run them, would anyone run them at all? If that happened, what would happen to the price of faction ships?
Also, mission runners in high-sec already can earn 8m every 20 mins without too much difficulty. Especially when they're older characters with Golums, Tengus etc. But people are often slowed down in their mission running by the fact that they occasionally have to decline missions. If they need to do this twice in less than 3 hours then they risk taking damage to their agents standings, so a lot of people wait out the timer... Your suggestion would mean they would never have to wait, and therefore their earning potential would go up. Isn't highsec mission running profitable enough?
Despite those two problems, I still support the suggestion. Its nice to see good and simple ideas on the front page of the Assembly Hall. We get far too much rubbish on the first page. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
3388
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
The thing is, though, is that there are quite a lot of people who have said 'to hell with my opposing faction's standings, I just love Enemies Abound (or w/e)', and don't decline anti-faction missions. Some of these are RPers, to be sure, but I can't be the only person to have noticed that, once you hoover all of those tags from 'Smash the Supplier' up, the collective pay (including loot, as well as everything else) is often substantially better than a similarly sized lvl4 mission. It is for this reason that I love anti-faction missions.
I'm not 100% convinced that this would just be another gushing ISK faucet. What happens if, as you say, the number of people running them drops, and the price of faction equipment goes up? Well, surely in a sandbox environment like ours, quick thinking people will recognise this and move into doing faction missions to take advantage of the premium that tags would now command. Presumably this would continue until equilibrium had been achieved.
You also said that people might not have to wait at all before declining missions, and they might therefore just mission away without any impediment. However, the reality of the situation is that - provided your faction standings are high enough - you can essentially decline mission after mission with really negligible faction hits. I would also say that perhaps mission travel times are a bigger factor than declining missions, but that's just my opinion and not really relavent here :)
Thank you for your input so far!
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
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