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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2012.02.02 22:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been looking to upgrade my mission running ship but I appear to have some sort of allergy to the prices of most faction and deadspace mods, causing me to break out in fits of incoherent rage coupled with the insistence that "Tech 2 is just fine". But my results thus far when trying to put that into practice are less than spectacular. So I'm now wondering, is there any point to trying to fit something like a Tengu or CNR using only T2 mods at best? Would the performance of a Mach or Vargur drop to the point of being very much not worth while? |
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.02.02 22:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
As far as my experience goes, if going for cheap, at least invest in faction gyros/BCU and T2 Dmg Rigs. The DPS increase is worth it and significant enough. Higher DPS = higher isk/hour and ability to remove threats from grid FAST is part of your tank.
Shield boosters are your next priority but, if you play smart, you can finish any mission with standard T2's. Most people tend to overtank their ships anyway. |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
61
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Posted - 2012.02.02 22:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some pimping is fine, damage mods being nr 1 for sure. next armour or shield repper.
I have flown pure t2 malestromes and multi billion isk tengus. Honestly, i found that a decent repper and 3 faction damage mods is all i really need on any ship for just missions. Sure the rest is nice dont get me wrong BUT it really isnt worth it in my oppinion. Your milage may vary, i know some that run ships that makes my old tengu look cheap....
and you know power to them BUT be aware you are always a gank or a bad connection away from a loss.
So in general i stick to cheaper ships that still do them very easily. my nightmare is all t2 apart from the heat sinks and she snores through missions, so instead i have way more isk to feed my pvp alt with so she can get her damnations and lokis blown up. |
Mike712
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.02.02 23:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree, first mods to pimp are damage mods, then booster/rep, they make the largest difference to any fit.
It's obvious why you'd invest in faction damage mods.
A decent shield booster/armor rep means you can often use less slots on tank/cap and more on increasing damage.
While a CNR, Mach, Vargur or tengu will work perfectly well without any faction and be better than a cheap hull, spending a few hundred mil on some mods that will dramatically increase performance is certainly worth it. |
Jesus Rambo
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
34
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Posted - 2012.02.03 00:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
On my tengu, I chose to pimp tank first, then damage, just because I prefer overtanking and being on the safe side. Of course, I also ended up just pimping both...
Anyways, I pimp my PvE boats because it's fun to me to fly around in really goddamn expensive ships and rat in them. Sure, half the stuff I have could be replaced with T2/cheaper faction for negligible loss in effectiveness, but I like spending my money :D |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
476
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Posted - 2012.02.03 00:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tengu: * T2 fit: Must keep moving at all times. Can pull most of a room, but have to be careful, and nuke webbers ASAP. * Faction / deadspace: Can pull the entire room and "safely" (beware ganks) go for a bathroom break or answer the phone.
Raven / Raven Navy Issue: * Not a lot of difference. Primarily for fitting. Somewhat faster mission completion. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
462
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Posted - 2012.02.03 01:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Tengu: * Faction / deadspace: Can pull the entire room and "safely" (beware ganks) go for a bathroom break or answer the phone.
Absolutely! A pimped-tengu is an entirely different beastie. A T2-fit tengu is a very nice utility PvE (etc) ship but there are things that you can only do by introducing words like gist, pith and the like. A well setup (not at all cheap) tengu can sit there and solo tank four elite sleeper battleships (e.g. C4 sites), and slowly kill them while I go for a coffee or a pee. A T2-fit tengu does not survive that onslaught, even if moving.
If all you're worrying about is lvl4 missions then a T2-fit tengu, mebbe with some CN BCUs if you're feeling extravagant, is just fine. If you're wanting to push the envelope with that neat little ship, then some serious loving can turn her into a marvellous and truly beautiful thing.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Marcus Henik
Dark Nebula Academy O X I D E
6
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Posted - 2012.02.03 01:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
My t 2 tengu is fine for lvl4s I priced the bling and decided it wasn't worth the extra dough to shave a few mins off each mission. I found that money was better spent on implants. |
Wacktopia
Noir.
159
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Posted - 2012.02.03 15:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think pimped mission ships is what happens if you do missions but don't do PvP?.... you start stock-piling ISK and it burns a hole in your pocket and you buy more and more expensive modules for your mission boat.
One day it get's ganked and you will probably come on the forums to cry but you will find no sympathy.
My advice is to take the ISK you would spend on a pimped mission boat and buy a load of mid-ranged ships to blow up PvPing.
Apparently we're getting censored now. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
108
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Posted - 2012.02.03 18:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Its all about knowing what is worth getting and what isn't. The right tool for the job. I learned a lot about faction mods by using the comparison tool that you find under Variations in the info windows on mods, you should try it. |
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Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control
20
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Posted - 2012.02.03 19:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I've been looking to upgrade my mission running ship but I appear to have some sort of allergy to the prices of most faction and deadspace mods, causing me to break out in fits of incoherent rage coupled with the insistence that "Tech 2 is just fine". But my results thus far when trying to put that into practice are less than spectacular. So I'm now wondering, is there any point to trying to fit something like a Tengu or CNR using only T2 mods at best? Would the performance of a Mach or Vargur drop to the point of being very much not worth while?
From experience, a t2 CNR is better than a T2 fit Raven, a bit better. Does the CNR do alot better with faction/deadspace mods? Yes. Does a regular raven do a lot better with faction/deadspace mods? Yes.
If you pimp fit a normal raven, then pimp fit a CNR, the cnr will be a bit better.
If you t2 fit a raven, then t2 fit a CNR, the cnr will be a bit better.
So the question is, how much do you want to spend and how much better than a regular t2 raven(or whatever) are you going for?
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MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
116
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Posted - 2012.02.03 20:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I've been looking to upgrade my mission running ship but I appear to have some sort of allergy to the prices of most faction and deadspace mods, causing me to break out in fits of incoherent rage coupled with the insistence that "Tech 2 is just fine". But my results thus far when trying to put that into practice are less than spectacular. So I'm now wondering, is there any point to trying to fit something like a Tengu or CNR using only T2 mods at best? Would the performance of a Mach or Vargur drop to the point of being very much not worth while?
I very rarely run with anything but T2 on my ships as it tends to attract unwanted attention from gankers. You do get better results from the nicer parts, but in my opinion T2 is good enough for missioning. For example: My Macharial is nothing special, but I can still clear L4s a LOT faster than I could hope for in a Maelstrom. Because I prefer to be cap stable I only have 3 Gyros and 2 Tracking enhancers and they are all the T2 versions, not the big buck items.
The common argument with something like a Machariel is that you should be able to kill everything before you need to worry about your tank. This is then followed by a lot of posturing, EFTing with 'all Vs' and faction ammo, rectally deployed DPS numbers, and a lot of 'you suck at Eve' commentary. True, if you want to dump 3 billion in parts in to your 1 billion ship you can. I try to have a more causal and non-grinding view of Eve, I drop a couple hundred million in to my billion isk hull and just enjoy it. Having lost a couple Machariels from game related issues I can tell you that the sting is a hell of a lot less in a cheap fit.
I think the only named thing I use on my Loki is a Sisters Probe Launcher and Probes.
The hulls alone give you a huge bonus and that bonus is not lost on using non-faction hardware. However if you can afford it you can get that hull bonus to be a lot nicer with faction/officer stuff.
Why are my neocom icons so tiny? Oh, you can widen and narrow the bar. Cool.-á |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
116
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Posted - 2012.02.03 20:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Stupid forum Why are my neocom icons so tiny? Oh, you can widen and narrow the bar. Cool.-á |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2012.02.03 22:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Its all about knowing what is worth getting and what isn't. The right tool for the job. I learned a lot about faction mods by using the comparison tool that you find under Variations in the info windows on mods, you should try it. I'm fully aware of the compare tool; the difference in stats around specific modules isn't the focus of my question. Rather I was more curious about trying to fit one of the better mission ships while remaining entirely withing the exception to the rule of "linear increases in performance cause exponential increases in price" that is created by tech 2 mods. I've looked at a number of fits that seem easily workable, but looking at those compared to most of the highly recommended fits either here or in BC I wonder if it allows the hull to really perform to it's worth. Judging from the other on topic responses it seems the answer leans more toward "no with a but", rather than "yes with an if" for the most part.
That being the case, any recommendations on a specific hull that does well with a cheap fit? |
Sicex
42
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Posted - 2012.02.03 23:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
For BC's use a Harbinger, versatile and deadly.
For BS's use a Geddon, cheap, deadly and comparable to most other BS's in dps and tank.
If you use missiles, just go with the Drake / Raven thing that everyone uses.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2012.02.03 23:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sicex wrote:For BC's use a Harbinger, versatile and deadly.
For BS's use a Geddon, cheap, deadly and comparable to most other BS's in dps and tank.
If you use missiles, just go with the Drake / Raven thing that everyone uses.
Sorry, should have been more specific. The hull itself doesn't need to be cheap, but something that could run lvl 4's efficiently with a tech 2 only fit. looking for something to take time to train into so being skill intensive is fine. Mostly going against Serpentis. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.02.04 06:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Against serpentis you'll want either a railgun vindi or AC mach....either will work well. Assuming gallente space, where most serpentis missions are found, I'd take a mach, simply because there's a significant helping of angel missions there as well, and you can change your damage type accordingly. |
Bruce Kemp
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.02.04 13:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:I think pimped mission ships is what happens if you do missions but don't do PvP?.... you start stock-piling ISK and it burns a hole in your pocket and you buy more and more expensive modules for your mission boat. One day it get's ganked and you will probably come on the forums to cry but you will find no sympathy. My advice is to take the ISK you would spend on a pimped mission boat and buy a load of mid-ranged ships to blow up PvPing.
Well said Wack. |
Cindy Marco
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.02.04 16:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
T2 is perfectly fine for missions. Especially when you consider that it only takes ~5 Tornadoes to alpha a Marauder. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Bellum Esca
88
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Posted - 2012.02.04 16:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
What will you spend all your isk on if you don't eventually go to faction/deadspace mods? I normally fit T2 at first on a ship to see how I like it then go to faction if I think I'll keep using it for a while. |
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Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
111
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Posted - 2012.02.04 18:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
So what do you want to know? Does it work? Yes Is it better then a cheap ship? Yes Do you get more from faction fitting a cheaper ship instead? Sometimes |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 22:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:Against serpentis you'll want either a railgun vindi or AC mach....either will work well. Assuming gallente space, where most serpentis missions are found, I'd take a mach, simply because there's a significant helping of angel missions there as well, and you can change your damage type accordingly. For the Mach or Vindi, how necessary would it be for T2 weapons?
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:What will you spend all your isk on if you don't eventually go to faction/deadspace mods? I normally fit T2 at first on a ship to see how I like it then go to faction if I think I'll keep using it for a while. More ships.
Nalha Saldana wrote: So what do you want to know? Does it work? Yes Is it better then a cheap ship? Yes Do you get more from faction fitting a cheaper ship instead? Sometimes
Yeah, that was pretty much the point. Finding out which PvE ships are good with T2 and which ones need faction/deadspace mods to shine over their lesser counterparts.
Any thoughts on a 5 launcher, near capstable, LSB Tengu? |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.02.07 23:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
For some ships it doesn't matter that much, if your tank holds with tech2 mods there's no need to upgrade to faction, unless of course your then better tank and free up slots to put in more damage/tracking mods.
For a tengu on the other hand, the difference between T2 and faction mods is night and day, things that are untankable with T2 become easy tankable with faction and deadspace mods.
Last, a raven navy issue has 1 more launcher then a normal raven, that alone gives it 17% more dps then a normal raven, which I wouldn't call "a bit" but just a lot better, on top of that better tank......and then again, they're relatively cheap. |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.02.08 00:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Any thoughts on a 5 launcher, near capstable, LSB Tengu?
Yes, don't do it go 6 launcher with faction/deadspace and with a LSB you can be cap satble
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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
485
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Posted - 2012.02.08 00:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
drdxie wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Any thoughts on a 5 launcher, near capstable, LSB Tengu?
Yes, don't do it go 6 launcher with faction/deadspace and with a LSB you can be cap satble
I'd be very interested in that fitting.
I run a cap-stable 5HML LSB tengu for C4s, but could not workup a 6HML equivalent. My 6HML fits are MSB, cap-stable, and fine for any mission and anything that C3s, and lower, can throw at them. They show a bit too much red for my liking when four elite sleeper BSs take a liking to them.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Batelle
HOMELE55
7
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Posted - 2012.02.08 04:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: For the Mach or Vindi, how necessary would it be for T2 weapons?
The ships are good enough that they aren't necessary, but the advantage of training for and using t2 over meta 4 is so great that you'd be crazy not to make it an extremely high priority if its your primary mission ship. I'd say however its more necessary with the vindi as you'll often want to swap to null in a vindi while a mach rarely needs to switch to barrage. Meta 4 guns aren't cheap either btw.
In the context of missions, a 15% increase in applied dps often translates into a 50-100% increase in mission running speed. In fact, this is the primary reason for pimping your pve ship. Marginal increases in different performance metrics translates into very significant overall performance. The skill comes to knowing your ship well enough and the stats/prices of the mods well enough to prioritize which slots to spend premium isk on. I've found deadspace resistance mods are one of the cheapest ways to improve your tank significantly, allowing you to devote more slots to damage. There are also a number of relatively inexpensive faction mods that have similar performance to t2, but due to lower cpu costs allow you to field a much more effective fitting.
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