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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.16 16:05:00 -
[61]
Almost forgot to mention this too: how about adding the total SP possible for each skillgroup, and the grand total for all the skills?
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:16:00 -
[62]
Well I would add it, if I knew where to find the max skillpoints per skillgroup... But the idea is worth mentioning you in the list of creative suggestions.
BTW, since i got my first donation, I will also add a new category, called "Project Funding". If you wanna be in that list, just donate a reasonable amount of ISK Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.17 00:01:00 -
[63]
Getting some numbers for you now so gimme a bit to make sure I get my math right. In the meantime i'm giving the chart a good look-over and the first problem i've noticed is the lack of the rank on the Supply Chain Management Skill of 3.
More to come later...
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.17 02:08:00 -
[64]
These are the skillpoint totals for each group. Grand total for all skills is 409,856,000. The rest of the chart looks good, and the only errors I found are the ones I listed in my previous post.
Spaceship Command - 109,056,000 Science - 66,560,000 Gunnery - 45,568,000 Industry - 24,320,000 Mechanic - 35,072,000 Missile Launcher Operation - 22,272,000 Electronics - 18,176,000 Engineering - 15,616,000 Drones - 19,456,000 Social - 5,632,000 Trade - 8,960,000 Leadership - 15,872,000 Learning - 5,376,000 Navigation - 9,728,000 Corporation Management - 8,192,000
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Ophenbach
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.17 05:15:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Ophenbach on 17/12/2007 05:15:55 Hi
Nice work.
Is it your intention to follow CCP's illogic? To try to explain what I mean we can look at "Leadership (1)" being a prerequisite for "Armored Warfare Specialist" when "Armored Warfare Specialist" requires "Armored Warfare (5)" with it's own prerequisite of "Leadership (1)". If "Armored Warfare Specialist" required "Leadership (2 or higher)" then it would make sense to show both as prerequisites.)
It would simplify the chart a bit if "Armored Warfare Specialist" was show with simply the prerequisite of "Armored Warfare (5)". (Since "Armored Warfare (5)" already requires "Leadership (1)".
With the latter being similar to "Scientific Networking" with it's prerequisite of "Laboratory Operation (4)" with it's own prerequisite of "Science (3)". (Rather than saying that "Scientific Networking" also requires "Science (3)".)
Don't get me wrong, they way you are currently showing it is how CCP shows it, however, they are illogically redundant in some cases, and it would help people understand easier if redundancies where removed where they can be.
Having secondary prerequisites that are already prerequisites of other prerequisites is redundant and should be eliminated wherever they occur. (try reading that aloud )
----- Ophenbach
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:32:00 -
[66]
Vince, I will add this stuff the late afternoon (GMT).
Ophenbach, you are right with the illogicness of double naming prerequisites. However, if i start simplifying too much i risk doing to much mistakes. I will check in what you wrote and take a close look at this. I noticed these "already-included-prerequisites" when I made the first version of the chart... but hey: I gotta stick with the game since it is what the chart is made for/from. I do NOT say, that it is logic this way
Once the chart has reached Version 1.0, I will tell CCP about this problem since it is close to some sort of software design mistake. Does anyone know how to do this best? Writing a petition seems a bit... errrr.... "overcharged". Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:58:00 -
[67]
The newest version is now up: 0.999c
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Femintaki
Gallente Tech 1 Holdings Limited Tech Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2007.12.17 20:47:00 -
[68]
You have a drone skill missing: SALVAGE DRONE OPERATION RANK 4 Requires Drones 4 to train
You have 2 industrial skills missing MOBILE FACTORY OPERATION RANK 5 Requires Industry 5 to train
MOBILE REFINERY OPERATION RANK 4 Requires Industry 4 and refining 4 to train
Your chart says there are 31 mechanical skills but correctly shows 32
Two science skills missing Diagnostic Interfaces Rank 4 Requires Cybernetics 5 to train
Remote Interfaces Rank 4 Required Cybernetics 5 to train
Hope that helps Love Fem
Quote: Do or do not - there is no try!
Quote: Seller of 200 Tech 2 products
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2007.12.18 03:40:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Lerinda Rasa on 18/12/2007 03:40:31 Aren't all those skills deprecated? I know for sure that Drone Salvaging is and I can't find the other ones in the game.
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Talidorn
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.18 04:41:00 -
[70]
Ok, this is perhaps petty...
I don't believe that Sentry Drone Interfacing changes the "Maximum number of controlled drones".
Please correct me if I'm wrong... I have it at level 5 and wouldn't know if it changed my numbers... LOL
Tali |
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2007.12.18 05:32:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Lerinda Rasa on 18/12/2007 05:35:07 Neither does Drone Interfacing for that matter which is also in that box. It only affects drone damage/mining yield.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:38:00 -
[72]
The two that are on the chart are Remote Interfaces and Gunnery Interfaces. Diagnostic Interfaces is not on the chart.
These three skills along with Mobile Factory Operation, Mobile Refinery Operation, and Salvage Drone Operation are useless skills that enable nothing in game.
There are more of these useless skills on the chart also (Duplicating, Reverse Engineering, Genetic Engineering, Nanite Operation, Nanite Interfacing). Its up to Oliver to decide what to do with them, but my .02 is they should be taken off unless they actually have some purpose in game other than simply being collector's skills.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.18 14:53:00 -
[73]
Okay here is what i did: I removed all skills, that appear to have no effect in the game (since this is really useless). I didnt even know that such a thing exists. So the idea is: if it is not on the chart, you dont have to have it. I recalculated the values for skillcount and rearranged the skills in the overwiev, but I left some room for the removed skills in case they become useful somaday. I renamed the Drone category from "Maximum number of controlled drones" to "Drone control related Skills". I think it is ok that way. I will update the new version 0.999d after the trinity server went back online.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.18 15:18:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Vincent Law on 18/12/2007 15:19:18 You'll need to update the skillpoint counts as well.
Just add up all the skill ranks in each group and then multiply by 256,000.
I'll look into those questionable skills later, maybe they actually DO do something...
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TimMc
Gallente Vidar Fierd Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.18 16:44:00 -
[75]
I don't get it... I know all these skills so why am I staring at this huge chart and being so interested?
Brillent work mate. o7 Jita: No one gets out alive. |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.18 17:35:00 -
[76]
Gonna be away for an extended amount of time. I will check out the skillpoints as soon as I am back (two or three weeks).
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Femintaki
Gallente Tech 1 Holdings Limited Tech Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2007.12.19 04:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Vincent Law Its up to Oliver to decide what to do with them, but my .02 is they should be taken off unless they actually have some purpose in game other than simply being collector's skills.
If these are not included on this chart then it's value is diminished in my opinion.
This should represent the facts, not someones interperetation of them. If the skill has existed in game in some manner then it needs to be included.
If this will not include all skills then it is of little value to me, I'll wish you all luck with your idea but it is not something I will ever refer to.
Good luck Fem
Quote: Do or do not - there is no try!
Quote: Seller of 200 Tech 2 products
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.20 15:05:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Femintaki
This should represent the facts, not someones interperetation of them. If the skill has existed in game in some manner then it needs to be included.
If this will not include all skills then it is of little value to me, I'll wish you all luck with your idea but it is not something I will ever refer to.
Well, I think this is not the way a useful discussion is performed. Anyway. I did not expect it to be perfect for everybody, though I would like to have it that way. Blindly including everything just "because it is in the game" is not what I wanted to do here. If this would be done, the skill chart would be full of useless information (like double named prerequisites).
Here is what I suggest to solve this problem: I will open up a new category called "Useless Skills / Skills not in game" and list all the questionable skills there. But I will not follow CCPs illogic and include content, that is not available or is used as a carrot for the community. In my opinion, CCP should either implement a useful function with each skill and make it available, or remove it completely from the game. Every thing else is just a misleading (like doing merchandise with products abilities they donŠt really have). Someone could even say, that CCP is cheating on the community. What else reason would there be to have a skill announced several years without implementing it (see Reverse Engineering)? To me, it looks more like a stupid software design mistake.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.22 07:06:00 -
[79]
Fact is there are many skills that are in the database that will NEVER be released. They were included during testing and were mostly cut for one reason or another. Including all those skills would be plain stupid. Just because it is in EVEmon doesn't mean you will ever see these skills in game. It is defo good form to only use the market seeded skills, since those are the only ones that should really exist.
BTW Oliver, sorry I have not had a chance to look over the chart a few more times, I've been pretty busy with final exams at school, but hopefully soon I can check over it before you make it 1.0!
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Karia Icehawk
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Posted - 2007.12.22 20:14:00 -
[80]
Nanite Control, Mnemonics, Neurotoxin Recovery - All booster-related skills, not general science.
The only thing I see at the moment without digging deeper.
Karia
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Prokonsul Piotrus
Minmatar Astral Light of Nature
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Posted - 2007.12.23 22:08:00 -
[81]
Impressive, this should be sticky! -- One day, we will return to the planets... please, CCP? :)
EVE-Wiki - share your knowledge in one place. |
WGD118
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Posted - 2007.12.28 23:35:00 -
[82]
Is it just me or does the web site with the link seem to be down? Anyways I look forward to seeing it some day I hope :)
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bellass
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:45:00 -
[83]
Originally by: WGD118 Is it just me or does the web site with the link seem to be down? Anyways I look forward to seeing it some day I hope :)
it's a dyndns so i assume it is on his computer and it is either turned off or not reachable.
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paleiades
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Posted - 2007.12.29 14:19:00 -
[84]
folks,
i tried two posted links (post 1 and post 67) to the app; they are not working at the date/time of this post.
regards
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.06 22:58:00 -
[85]
Sorry guys. As i sayd, i wasnt around for some time. (I have been to Antarctica, and as you can imagene, infrastructure there is quite thin.) Anyway, I am fixing the link right now. So it should be up and running in a few minutes.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.06 23:25:00 -
[86]
I hotfixed what Karia found. The Version is now 0.999f. Infomorph Psychology does not have any Prerequisites, thats why it has no linkage. I will add the "Useless Skills" Group the next days.
PS: all the links in this Topic point to the same file. So using the one provided at the beginning should be fine. And yes: it was a dyndns-problem :)
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.07 14:52:00 -
[87]
OK guys, you can now find 0.999g here: http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
Please someone who has a clue about useless skills: double check the "Useless Skills / Skills not in Game" section within the Skillchart statistics. Is something missing?
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Myra Rodan
Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.01.07 18:23:00 -
[88]
that looks Awesome! I can't wait to get a final version.
I didn't have time to browse very completely as I'm at work right now, but one thing I did see is that Interceptors is listed as a prereq for Interdictor, rather than Destroyers.
I hope to have time later tonight to look over more of the chart.
Selling and delivering boosters anywhere in Eve. Message me for a quote. |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.08 13:19:00 -
[89]
Hi Myra. Ok I added the Smuggling skill. But I dont see the Problem with the Interceptors/Interdictors. Destroyers dont have any other prereqs than thos listed. The connections between Interceptors/Interdictors seems fine too. Could you explain it in more detail?
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2008.01.08 21:48:00 -
[90]
Very nicely done...
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