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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.06 21:26:00 -
[1]
Hello my fellow EVE-Players
I felt it was time for a new graphical skillchart. Since Heather Skarsgard did not update hers, I started to build my own. I have some kind of BETA for public review. I would ask everyone to download the 2.5MB file from:
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
and check it for mistakes (spelling and contents). Especially the new Trinity stuff should be checked carefully since it is quite new and I am not into it yet. But I must warn you: this is just a WORK IN PROGRESS! After some time has passed and enough ppl gave comments on the chart, I will build a final version and make it freely availiable. Please give comments on the chart here so that everyone can see what we are talking about.
One last thing: I would be happy about some ISK donations to my character
Yours sincerely
Oliver G G Enterprises, CEO
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.06 23:13:00 -
[2]
Pretty nifty.
Already found one mistake. 'Jump Drive Operation' needs 'Warp Drive Operation 5' listed as a prerequisite. ---
Originally by: VJ Maverick Jita is closed on Sundays. It's a holy day.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.06 23:27:00 -
[3]
you have 3 instances of "capitol energy turret", there should be a hybrid and a projectile one...
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.07 01:04:00 -
[4]
Ah thanks you two. I have updated the chart and will post the new version in the next few days. I have found some mistakes myself in the mean time... some skills are missing completely like Heavy Interdictors... I have to include them before I can publish the next chart version.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.07 01:51:00 -
[5]
there are not 9 advanced launcher skills
Advanced turrets require level 4 of the lower tier turrets to train - medium pulse spec 1 needs small pulse spec 4.
and thats it for now... another hour, ill have a few more for you :D
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.07 01:55:00 -
[6]
This is very useful, organized and visually appealing. Thank you. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Mudkest
Ekliptika Engineers Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.12.07 02:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mudkest on 07/12/2007 02:16:56 Edited by: Mudkest on 07/12/2007 02:14:34 cant find those heat related nanite skills(cant remmeber name) on their either.
cant find thermodynamics on it iehter for that matter(could be overlooking it, that thing is big :o)
edit: also signal aquisition might better fit in the probing area and not bp/general science skill block? and where's the industrial reconfiguraion skill(industtry tree)? and tactical logistics reconfiguraiont(mechanic tree)? remote hull repair systems(mechanic) and capital remote hull(mechanic) projected electronic counter measures(electronics) capital industrial ships(spaceship command)
skills for marrauders, black ops and haxors not in there yet either, but electronic attack ships are :) ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
Kalaro
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Posted - 2007.12.07 02:21:00 -
[8]
You have all the ship skills jumbled up, Gallente basic ship skills pointing to Caldari, Amarr are okay, Caldari points to Minmatar, and Minmatar points to Gallente...
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Kobushi
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Posted - 2007.12.07 05:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kalaro You have all the ship skills jumbled up, Gallente basic ship skills pointing to Caldari, Amarr are okay, Caldari points to Minmatar, and Minmatar points to Gallente...
Sounds perfectly CCPesque to me.
Seriously that's a very useful chart right there.
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 06:28:00 -
[10]
I'd like to see this in a nice bit 4ft by 3ft print out. I'd look nice on my office wall.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.07 12:34:00 -
[11]
@Everyone: Thank you for the load ideas/hints. Some of the mistakes are clearly copy-and-paste-festival related
@Kalaro: see @Everyone
@Mudkest: You are right. I found a list of new skills that are still missing in the Chart: Marauders Heavy Interdictors Battleship Construction Nanite Operation Nanite interfacing Thermodynamics.
Black Ops is already included (for each race). Signal Acquisition will be moved to the probing area.
Quote: and where's the industrial reconfiguraion skill(industtry tree)? and tactical logistics reconfiguraiont(mechanic tree)? remote hull repair systems(mechanic) and capital remote hull(mechanic) projected electronic counter measures(electronics) capital industrial ships(spaceship command)
Yep, they are all missing. Dammit. What is a "haxor" ?
@Lance Fighter Yep you are right. It is only 6 advanced launcher skills... well I was never good in basic math
Quote: Advanced turrets require level 4 of the lower tier turrets to train - medium pulse spec 1 needs small pulse spec 4.
Uups looks like these are completely missing prerequisites...
Quote: and thats it for now... another hour, ill have a few more for you :D
To say it with the words of Britney: GIMME MORE
@Trivas: Yes, thats exactly what i had in mind. I will publish a print-version as soon as the chart is finished. It will be 2m wide and 88cm high. Sorry it aint standard size, but the problem is: I lost the overview and its damn hard to arrange all the stuff I tried out some tools like GraphViz to automatize the visualizing process, but computers are all dumb and the software is simply overwhelmed by the amount of data
I will now start to work on the mistakes found. Thanks a lot to ya all!
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.07 15:38:00 -
[12]
I have fixed all mistakes so far (I hope I did it right)
Since I dont know what a Haxor is, it might be missing. Furthermore, I couldnt find out what the Capital Industrial Ship Skill is needed for. It is not needed for Jumpfreighters...
The new Version (0.91) can be downloaded from the same URL as before:
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
and is again about 2.5MB in size.
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Mudkest
Ekliptika Engineers Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.12.07 20:18:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mudkest on 07/12/2007 20:24:49 Edited by: Mudkest on 07/12/2007 20:20:37
Originally by: Oliver G What is a "haxor" ?
heavy interdictor(prefer haxor over hactor cause of the "warp anything regardless of WCS/ship bonus" highslot module)
Originally by: Oliver G Black Ops is already included (for each race).
cept it isnt a racial skill like frigate/battleship but a single skill like destroyers/assault ships.(and the skill doesnt require bs at 5, it requires spaceship command at 5 ;)) ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 20:23:00 -
[14]
Deep Core mining has the prereq of Astrogeology; however the line traces back to Archeology
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.07 20:56:00 -
[15]
I see... I think i will update these issues tomorrow and post the new version then Thanks again you two!
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.07 21:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Oliver G on 07/12/2007 21:55:12 OK, here goes version 0.92:
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
Trivas and Mudkest, you two wanna be named on the poster? Something like quality assurance... or something.
PS: I left the Capital Industrial skill besides the Adv. Spaceship command and Capital ship Skill. Otherwise I would have to open up a new subgroup called ORE (and there simply is no room for that).
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.08 05:04:00 -
[17]
If you feel its appropriate to list me I'm cool with that.
CFO Training and Starbase Tactical Officer are no longer in use or do not exist anymore.
Starbase Defense Management is missing. It has requirements of Anchoring 5.
Related is spelled wrong under the Drones Section, Capital ship area
Shield Compensation requires Engineering 3 not 2 as listed.
Shield Upgrades also requires science 1.
Capital Shield Operation requires Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 and Shield Operation 5, but not Engineering 5.
Capital Energy, Hybrid, and Projectile turret all require gunnery 5 as well as the corresponding large turret skill.
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Mudkest
Ekliptika Engineers Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Oliver G
Trivas and Mudkest, you two wanna be named on the poster? Something like quality assurance... or something.
PS: I left the Capital Industrial skill besides the Adv. Spaceship command and Capital ship Skill. Otherwise I would have to open up a new subgroup called ORE (and there simply is no room for that).
sure, as pain in the ass know it all? oh wait that is QA :o ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.08 16:45:00 -
[19]
First of all, Trivas and Mudkest you both will be listed on the poster since you two really try to improve the chart Now on the next version:
CFO Training is still existing within the market window, so I will let it be for now. Starbase Tactical officer was replaced by Starbase Defense Management. Corrected the spelling of "related" (though I am no native speaker, THAT one was really ugly). The Capital Shield Operation was fixed.
Quote: Capital Energy, Hybrid, and Projectile turret all require gunnery 5 as well as the corresponding large turret skill.
Thats right, but the corresponding large turret skill already requires Gunnery 5, so this prerequisite is transitively included within the large turret Skill.
The new version (0.93) is availiable at:
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
as always.
L8er.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.08 18:49:00 -
[20]
I see you fixed the capitol energy turret problem... except... switch the projectile and energy ones.
Working on drones now
Sentry Drone Interfacing needs level 4 drone sharpshooting as a pre-req. the rest look good.
mechanic
Salvaging only needs survey 3, not 4. rest looks good...
leadership
there is no (1) for leadership on the skirmish warfare block as well, "general leadership skills: 12" needs to be changed to "mining leadership skills: 2" or something for the mining part. else, all is good.
spaceship command
There is no skill number on the battleship -> titan line, on any race As well, as a personal thing, the destroyer skill imo should not be under the AF/HAC skill area and imo the "blockade related skills: 2"(ship command, inty dictor hactor) should have a 3... and i debate wether to call them "interdiction" ships or not Jump frieghter is a single skill, not a racial one general ship skills should be 20, not 21, however 56 total is correct and thats all for now
corp management
soverignity skill needs level 5 empire control, no number... thats it...
trade
contracting needs social 1, not corp contracting and thats all
missile launcher
heavy assault missile launcher operation needs level 3 standard missiles, NOT heavy missiles 3 torpedoes need missile launcher op 4 cruise need missile launcher op 5 (dont ask me why) defender missile need level 2 missile launcher op rockets need missile launcher op 1 that seems to be it for missile launchers...
science
"gunnery interface" under cybernetics should be plural imo thermodynamics should not be under blueprint skills... dunno where else it would go (perhaps the cybernetics area?) as well, nanite control and neurotoxin recovery should be under the booster category mmm and thats all i can find for now.
might find more later.
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Jameroz
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.12.08 18:59:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jameroz on 08/12/2007 19:00:16 noticed few mistakes:
Blockade related skills says 2 instead of 3 Sovereignty doesn't list what level Empire Control it needs The 2 mining leadership skills say General Leadership Skills: 12
EDIT: Person above managed to post while I was writing
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jameroz Edited by: Jameroz on 08/12/2007 19:00:16 noticed few mistakes:
Blockade related skills says 2 instead of 3 Sovereignty doesn't list what level Empire Control it needs The 2 mining leadership skills say General Leadership Skills: 12
EDIT: Person above managed to post while I was writing
hehehe I sat there for half hour+ working out each part piece by piece...
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:09:00 -
[23]
Hehe looks like i have to put two new names to the Quality Assurance list I hope thats ok with you two Lance Fighter & Jameroz...
As always, I will update later...
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Oliver G Hehe looks like i have to put two new names to the Quality Assurance list I hope thats ok with you two Lance Fighter & Jameroz...
As always, I will update later...
:D its cool with me
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:56:00 -
[25]
OK guys, i made the new version (0.94).
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
I have rearranged the Jumpfreighter stuff. The Spaceship Command Skillgroup aint looking so overloaded anymore. I hope its final now. Rearranging this stuff is quite exhausting
I have renamed the Science Skillsubgroup "BP ...". It is now more General. The nanite stuff and the Thermodynamics can now stay there
The Torpedo/Cruise Missile connection is indeed strange. But you are right, and I fixed it.
Thanks again for the update guys
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Mudkest
Ekliptika Engineers Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.12.08 20:42:00 -
[26]
advanced drone interfacing only requires drone interfacing at 5, not drone sharpshooting at 4 drone navigation only requires drones at 4, navigation skill not needed
----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.08 20:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Oliver G OK guys, i made the new version (0.94).
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
I have rearranged the Jumpfreighter stuff. The Spaceship Command Skillgroup aint looking so overloaded anymore. I hope its final now. Rearranging this stuff is quite exhausting
I have renamed the Science Skillsubgroup "BP ...". It is now more General. The nanite stuff and the Thermodynamics can now stay there
The Torpedo/Cruise Missile connection is indeed strange. But you are right, and I fixed it.
Thanks again for the update guys
/me looks upon Oliver's handiwork, sees his name under QA help, and decides all is good
I dunno, it looks pretty good to me. I am not gonna sit there with evemon open and look at every single skill again, just to make sure. (evemon had better be right lol)
Its a very nice piece of work at this point :D
(what program are you using to do all this? photoshop? paint?)
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Mudkest
Ekliptika Engineers Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.12.08 20:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
I dunno, it looks pretty good to me. I am not gonna sit there with evemon open and look at every single skill again, just to make sure. (evemon had better be right lol)
I sit with market open in eve-online, and am hoping even more then you there are no mistakes there :o ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.08 20:58:00 -
[29]
Updated. Can be found under the usual link.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.08 21:06:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Oliver G on 08/12/2007 21:07:13 Hehe I used Corel Draw 12. I first started with GraphViz, and it is a nice tool to draw (or program) graphs, but not at this size... I also thought about writing a Java tool that does the drawing for me. I decided that it is not worth it. Loading the xml-stuff and building up an object model for the data is a piece of cake, but the drawing is then not so easy (eaven if i used availiable libraries for Java to do that). I found out that most of the tools f**k up at some point when the dependencies get too much. Besides that, I wanted it to look good. I dont wanna say that my work is perfect, but it is the best that can be done for free (I have other work to do as well ).
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.08 23:19:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Mudkest
Originally by: Lance Fighter
I dunno, it looks pretty good to me. I am not gonna sit there with evemon open and look at every single skill again, just to make sure. (evemon had better be right lol)
I sit with market open in eve-online, and am hoping even more then you there are no mistakes there :o
I would use eve, but my access to eve is limited atm... might get ingame a bit later... evemon has never given me trouble before, so all is good.
Corel Draw 12, nice program... vista compatible... *shrug*
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.09 01:30:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Oliver G on 09/12/2007 01:35:38 Whenever I want to die in a Battleship I would call it "Vista Premium"! I am into Computer Science. Usually academics have an opend mind for everything, but I dont know anybody who likes Vista...
Anyway Vista is (lucky me) not the problem here
I think we will wait a few more days. If nobody can find anymore mistakes, we can call it Version 1.0 and I will release the print version. LoL i ran a test on that: Corel Draw 12 creates a 8MB .pdf file (it takes 15 minutes to finish). Loading the file takes 18 seconds on my computer (that is longer than loading a 100 pages big dissertation). It looks funny as if the Adobe reader is totally overstressed. I cant think of a printer that can do this printjob, but this is the problem of the company that is going to get paid to print it for me
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Torso Appendix
Nihilists LLC
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:53:00 -
[33]
This is a small omission (prior to Trinity), but the skill Bomb Deployment appears to be missing from the Missile Launcher Operation skill set. Requiring level V Missile Bombardment, so it should be trivial to add to the blank spot just above.
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:51:00 -
[34]
Its not version 1.0 yet :)
Bomb Deployment is missing: req missile bombardment 5
Battleship Construction requires Cruiser Construction 4 and Frigate Construction 4, but not any level of mechanic skill
Fuel Conservation also requires afterburner 2
High Speed Maneuvering also requires afterburner 4
The green lines that lead into Hacking and Archeology from Electronics upgrades and survey, respectively, lack the ônot connectedö hump when they cross
Nanite Control requires science 4 not 3
Neurotoxin Recovery requires Nanite Control 1 not 4
Research Project Management also requires Research 5
That all I could find for now...
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.09 11:11:00 -
[35]
LoL, i felt so confident this time... But hey, at least a new name for the OA-list.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.09 16:45:00 -
[36]
Here we go again. I have added some additional Skilltree stats.
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
Lets see how long this version lasts
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.09 18:24:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Trivas on 09/12/2007 18:25:45 Edited by: Trivas on 09/12/2007 18:24:57 Found more...
Jump Freighter Skill only requires Industry 5 and Adv Spaceship Command 4, not Jump Calibration
Under mechanic Skills, the Armor Repairing and structure related skills is spelled wrong (reparing instead of repairing)
Acceleration Control does not require any level of Afterburner, just navigation 3
High Speed Maneuvering still requires afterburner 4, it looks like you connected the line that was meant for this to Acceleration Control
Thats all for now...at least my lists are getting smaller :)
EDIT: typos.
EDIT2: This version lasted less then 2 hours
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.09 20:23:00 -
[38]
Updated. Can be found under the usual link. I also fixed the spelling of the Skill "Jump Freighters" (till this version I spelled it "Jumpfreighters"). LoL - looks like we are getting experienced in the design-revision process
Version numbers are getting rare. I soon have to switch to 0.99 0.999 and so on .
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.09 21:46:00 -
[39]
btw, your skillchart has already found itself useful :D
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.09 22:27:00 -
[40]
how that?
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Luke Lor'aul
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Posted - 2007.12.10 05:51:00 -
[41]
Can you offer the new builds in PDF?
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Vanora Kime
Caldari Reapage Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 11:49:00 -
[42]
Very nice, I like it :-)
Would it be possible to add the skills ranks to that graphic? Would be nice to have that information included also, maybe just the rank in brackets within the skill boxes, like 'Cybernetics [3]' or something like that?
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Attila Barca
Minmatar Kartago Corp.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 13:33:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Attila Barca on 10/12/2007 13:33:00 This might not be very constructive criticism, but: thats some impressive work you got going there, Ollie
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.10 17:19:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Oliver G on 10/12/2007 17:19:34 @Luke: I will publish the Chart as PDF, as soon as it has reached 1.0 So everyone with the appropriate printer can print it (2000mm x 880mm, CMYK-Coloring).
@Vanora: The idea sounds nice... as soon as I have time, I will add the Rank in brackets as you suggested. I will open up a new Category on the Chart called "Creative Suggestions". You will be the first one listed there
@Attila: Thank you!
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.10 19:20:00 -
[45]
Version 0.99 has arrived. I have included Vanora Kimes idea . While doing that, i found some skills that where still missing, like Duplicating and Mnemonics (Science)... I REALLY hope, it is finished now!
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.11 02:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Oliver G how that?
mmm some random guy on this section of the forums asked a question in witch the answer was not something i knew by heart, so i pulled out your handy dandy skillchart (witch i managed to still have open in one of my 5 dozen tabs), and gave him his answer; he was pleased with his answer :D
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.11 12:14:00 -
[47]
Well I am happy that it proved itself useful even before 1.0
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.11 22:39:00 -
[48]
oh yea and i thought of the billiant idea of adding the primary/secondary attributes to the skill trees... like near where it says spaceship command, put (perception, willpower) or something like that.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:28:00 -
[49]
Hey Lance... the idea is good. I gotta check if it is only two attributes per skillgroup (or if several are needed... then I would have to do it on a skill basis )
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:34:00 -
[50]
Hm I just saw that it is not that easy. In Trade for example: Broker Relations has Willpower and Charisma Accounting has Charisma and Memory
Including it with every single skill would make it too unclear. And I am too lazy to put it in for each single skill
But the idea was good enough to list you within the Creative Suggestions list
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:36:00 -
[51]
*checks evemon*
reverse engineering, is that needed? i notice it in evemon...
All of corp management on evemon use memory(main) and charisma(secondary)
All drone skill use memory and perception
electronics - int/mem
engineering - int/mem
Gunnery - perc/will, except weapon upgrades ( perc/mem)
industry - mem/int
leadership - char/will
learning - all messed up
mechanic - int/mem
missiles - perc/will
Nav - int/perc
science - int/mem
exceptions Doomsday operation will/int infomorph - char/will research project management - mem/char and thats it
social - char/int
spaceship command - perc/will tech 2 ship skills have will/perc
trade are pretty messed up.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.13 10:46:00 -
[52]
Version 0.999 is now online. Well Lance, I hate to say this, but these exceptions mess it all up. I would include it, if it would be nice and clean. I have no idea on how I could handle all the exceptions (except from adding the pri/sec attribute to every single skill; it would certainly make it look ugly).
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.13 21:31:00 -
[53]
Its ok... I originally thought that all skills worked under the same attributes, but i guess not. *shrug*
>.> to earn my position as contributer, how about putting little holiday decorations in all the white spaces :D
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Grimm Myn
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.14 10:03:00 -
[54]
Very nicely done!
Looks awesome and now i only need to find a plotter to print this and hang it up somewhere (even better, if i were rich, i would laminate the sucker so i can draw on it)
Reckon if i get some time, ill check over the skills.
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Kasheem Cetanes
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.14 15:02:00 -
[55]
What program did you use to make this?
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.14 15:59:00 -
[56]
I used Corel Draw 12 (as stated earlier). I will print it at the university and laminate it. Its f***ing expensive, but it rocks. I have seen one of the laminated posters. They are very cool.
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2007.12.16 09:01:00 -
[57]
Dude.
This is awesome. Way beyond it. I can't help you with the skills, but I'll send some iskies your way for sure.
WANT: Print friendly version of the final version. I'm getting this thing framed and hanged on my wall over my desk.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.16 12:23:00 -
[58]
@Lerinda lol the donaiton really helped me! Never saw so much cash flow into my account
The print friendly version will be availiable here, as soon as the chart reaches version 1.0. I have a 2004 Player taking a close look at it and if she says its OK, i will publish a PDF (size 2000mm x 880mm, CMYK-Coloring). It should be printable on any large-size plotter.
But be warned: I made a testrun with PDF-export: the file will be 8MB in size and loading takes forever lol - but it works. Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:05:00 -
[59]
The chart looks great, the only complaint I have is that some of the lines are hard to follow when they get close together (particularly around the marauders/transport ships area). Maybe a different size line or solid lines instead?
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:36:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Vincent Law The chart looks great, the only complaint I have is that some of the lines are hard to follow when they get close together (particularly around the marauders/transport ships area). Maybe a different size line or solid lines instead?
Methinks that was intentional. The chart is hard to follow, and has a high learning curve to get used to it. It goes perfectly with eve that way
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.16 16:05:00 -
[61]
Almost forgot to mention this too: how about adding the total SP possible for each skillgroup, and the grand total for all the skills?
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:16:00 -
[62]
Well I would add it, if I knew where to find the max skillpoints per skillgroup... But the idea is worth mentioning you in the list of creative suggestions.
BTW, since i got my first donation, I will also add a new category, called "Project Funding". If you wanna be in that list, just donate a reasonable amount of ISK Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.17 00:01:00 -
[63]
Getting some numbers for you now so gimme a bit to make sure I get my math right. In the meantime i'm giving the chart a good look-over and the first problem i've noticed is the lack of the rank on the Supply Chain Management Skill of 3.
More to come later...
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.17 02:08:00 -
[64]
These are the skillpoint totals for each group. Grand total for all skills is 409,856,000. The rest of the chart looks good, and the only errors I found are the ones I listed in my previous post.
Spaceship Command - 109,056,000 Science - 66,560,000 Gunnery - 45,568,000 Industry - 24,320,000 Mechanic - 35,072,000 Missile Launcher Operation - 22,272,000 Electronics - 18,176,000 Engineering - 15,616,000 Drones - 19,456,000 Social - 5,632,000 Trade - 8,960,000 Leadership - 15,872,000 Learning - 5,376,000 Navigation - 9,728,000 Corporation Management - 8,192,000
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Ophenbach
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.17 05:15:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Ophenbach on 17/12/2007 05:15:55 Hi
Nice work.
Is it your intention to follow CCP's illogic? To try to explain what I mean we can look at "Leadership (1)" being a prerequisite for "Armored Warfare Specialist" when "Armored Warfare Specialist" requires "Armored Warfare (5)" with it's own prerequisite of "Leadership (1)". If "Armored Warfare Specialist" required "Leadership (2 or higher)" then it would make sense to show both as prerequisites.)
It would simplify the chart a bit if "Armored Warfare Specialist" was show with simply the prerequisite of "Armored Warfare (5)". (Since "Armored Warfare (5)" already requires "Leadership (1)".
With the latter being similar to "Scientific Networking" with it's prerequisite of "Laboratory Operation (4)" with it's own prerequisite of "Science (3)". (Rather than saying that "Scientific Networking" also requires "Science (3)".)
Don't get me wrong, they way you are currently showing it is how CCP shows it, however, they are illogically redundant in some cases, and it would help people understand easier if redundancies where removed where they can be.
Having secondary prerequisites that are already prerequisites of other prerequisites is redundant and should be eliminated wherever they occur. (try reading that aloud )
----- Ophenbach
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:32:00 -
[66]
Vince, I will add this stuff the late afternoon (GMT).
Ophenbach, you are right with the illogicness of double naming prerequisites. However, if i start simplifying too much i risk doing to much mistakes. I will check in what you wrote and take a close look at this. I noticed these "already-included-prerequisites" when I made the first version of the chart... but hey: I gotta stick with the game since it is what the chart is made for/from. I do NOT say, that it is logic this way
Once the chart has reached Version 1.0, I will tell CCP about this problem since it is close to some sort of software design mistake. Does anyone know how to do this best? Writing a petition seems a bit... errrr.... "overcharged". Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:58:00 -
[67]
The newest version is now up: 0.999c
http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Femintaki
Gallente Tech 1 Holdings Limited Tech Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2007.12.17 20:47:00 -
[68]
You have a drone skill missing: SALVAGE DRONE OPERATION RANK 4 Requires Drones 4 to train
You have 2 industrial skills missing MOBILE FACTORY OPERATION RANK 5 Requires Industry 5 to train
MOBILE REFINERY OPERATION RANK 4 Requires Industry 4 and refining 4 to train
Your chart says there are 31 mechanical skills but correctly shows 32
Two science skills missing Diagnostic Interfaces Rank 4 Requires Cybernetics 5 to train
Remote Interfaces Rank 4 Required Cybernetics 5 to train
Hope that helps Love Fem
Quote: Do or do not - there is no try!
Quote: Seller of 200 Tech 2 products
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2007.12.18 03:40:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Lerinda Rasa on 18/12/2007 03:40:31 Aren't all those skills deprecated? I know for sure that Drone Salvaging is and I can't find the other ones in the game.
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Talidorn
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.18 04:41:00 -
[70]
Ok, this is perhaps petty...
I don't believe that Sentry Drone Interfacing changes the "Maximum number of controlled drones".
Please correct me if I'm wrong... I have it at level 5 and wouldn't know if it changed my numbers... LOL
Tali |
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2007.12.18 05:32:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Lerinda Rasa on 18/12/2007 05:35:07 Neither does Drone Interfacing for that matter which is also in that box. It only affects drone damage/mining yield.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:38:00 -
[72]
The two that are on the chart are Remote Interfaces and Gunnery Interfaces. Diagnostic Interfaces is not on the chart.
These three skills along with Mobile Factory Operation, Mobile Refinery Operation, and Salvage Drone Operation are useless skills that enable nothing in game.
There are more of these useless skills on the chart also (Duplicating, Reverse Engineering, Genetic Engineering, Nanite Operation, Nanite Interfacing). Its up to Oliver to decide what to do with them, but my .02 is they should be taken off unless they actually have some purpose in game other than simply being collector's skills.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.18 14:53:00 -
[73]
Okay here is what i did: I removed all skills, that appear to have no effect in the game (since this is really useless). I didnt even know that such a thing exists. So the idea is: if it is not on the chart, you dont have to have it. I recalculated the values for skillcount and rearranged the skills in the overwiev, but I left some room for the removed skills in case they become useful somaday. I renamed the Drone category from "Maximum number of controlled drones" to "Drone control related Skills". I think it is ok that way. I will update the new version 0.999d after the trinity server went back online.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Vincent Law
Elite Storm Enterprises Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.18 15:18:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Vincent Law on 18/12/2007 15:19:18 You'll need to update the skillpoint counts as well.
Just add up all the skill ranks in each group and then multiply by 256,000.
I'll look into those questionable skills later, maybe they actually DO do something...
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TimMc
Gallente Vidar Fierd Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.18 16:44:00 -
[75]
I don't get it... I know all these skills so why am I staring at this huge chart and being so interested?
Brillent work mate. o7 Jita: No one gets out alive. |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.18 17:35:00 -
[76]
Gonna be away for an extended amount of time. I will check out the skillpoints as soon as I am back (two or three weeks).
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Femintaki
Gallente Tech 1 Holdings Limited Tech Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2007.12.19 04:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Vincent Law Its up to Oliver to decide what to do with them, but my .02 is they should be taken off unless they actually have some purpose in game other than simply being collector's skills.
If these are not included on this chart then it's value is diminished in my opinion.
This should represent the facts, not someones interperetation of them. If the skill has existed in game in some manner then it needs to be included.
If this will not include all skills then it is of little value to me, I'll wish you all luck with your idea but it is not something I will ever refer to.
Good luck Fem
Quote: Do or do not - there is no try!
Quote: Seller of 200 Tech 2 products
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.20 15:05:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Femintaki
This should represent the facts, not someones interperetation of them. If the skill has existed in game in some manner then it needs to be included.
If this will not include all skills then it is of little value to me, I'll wish you all luck with your idea but it is not something I will ever refer to.
Well, I think this is not the way a useful discussion is performed. Anyway. I did not expect it to be perfect for everybody, though I would like to have it that way. Blindly including everything just "because it is in the game" is not what I wanted to do here. If this would be done, the skill chart would be full of useless information (like double named prerequisites).
Here is what I suggest to solve this problem: I will open up a new category called "Useless Skills / Skills not in game" and list all the questionable skills there. But I will not follow CCPs illogic and include content, that is not available or is used as a carrot for the community. In my opinion, CCP should either implement a useful function with each skill and make it available, or remove it completely from the game. Every thing else is just a misleading (like doing merchandise with products abilities they don¦t really have). Someone could even say, that CCP is cheating on the community. What else reason would there be to have a skill announced several years without implementing it (see Reverse Engineering)? To me, it looks more like a stupid software design mistake.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.22 07:06:00 -
[79]
Fact is there are many skills that are in the database that will NEVER be released. They were included during testing and were mostly cut for one reason or another. Including all those skills would be plain stupid. Just because it is in EVEmon doesn't mean you will ever see these skills in game. It is defo good form to only use the market seeded skills, since those are the only ones that should really exist.
BTW Oliver, sorry I have not had a chance to look over the chart a few more times, I've been pretty busy with final exams at school, but hopefully soon I can check over it before you make it 1.0!
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Karia Icehawk
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Posted - 2007.12.22 20:14:00 -
[80]
Nanite Control, Mnemonics, Neurotoxin Recovery - All booster-related skills, not general science.
The only thing I see at the moment without digging deeper.
Karia
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Prokonsul Piotrus
Minmatar Astral Light of Nature
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Posted - 2007.12.23 22:08:00 -
[81]
Impressive, this should be sticky! -- One day, we will return to the planets... please, CCP? :)
EVE-Wiki - share your knowledge in one place. |
WGD118
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Posted - 2007.12.28 23:35:00 -
[82]
Is it just me or does the web site with the link seem to be down? Anyways I look forward to seeing it some day I hope :)
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bellass
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:45:00 -
[83]
Originally by: WGD118 Is it just me or does the web site with the link seem to be down? Anyways I look forward to seeing it some day I hope :)
it's a dyndns so i assume it is on his computer and it is either turned off or not reachable.
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paleiades
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Posted - 2007.12.29 14:19:00 -
[84]
folks,
i tried two posted links (post 1 and post 67) to the app; they are not working at the date/time of this post.
regards
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.06 22:58:00 -
[85]
Sorry guys. As i sayd, i wasnt around for some time. (I have been to Antarctica, and as you can imagene, infrastructure there is quite thin.) Anyway, I am fixing the link right now. So it should be up and running in a few minutes.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.06 23:25:00 -
[86]
I hotfixed what Karia found. The Version is now 0.999f. Infomorph Psychology does not have any Prerequisites, thats why it has no linkage. I will add the "Useless Skills" Group the next days.
PS: all the links in this Topic point to the same file. So using the one provided at the beginning should be fine. And yes: it was a dyndns-problem :)
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.07 14:52:00 -
[87]
OK guys, you can now find 0.999g here: http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
Please someone who has a clue about useless skills: double check the "Useless Skills / Skills not in Game" section within the Skillchart statistics. Is something missing?
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Myra Rodan
Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.01.07 18:23:00 -
[88]
that looks Awesome! I can't wait to get a final version.
I didn't have time to browse very completely as I'm at work right now, but one thing I did see is that Interceptors is listed as a prereq for Interdictor, rather than Destroyers.
I hope to have time later tonight to look over more of the chart.
Selling and delivering boosters anywhere in Eve. Message me for a quote. |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.08 13:19:00 -
[89]
Hi Myra. Ok I added the Smuggling skill. But I dont see the Problem with the Interceptors/Interdictors. Destroyers dont have any other prereqs than thos listed. The connections between Interceptors/Interdictors seems fine too. Could you explain it in more detail?
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2008.01.08 21:48:00 -
[90]
Very nicely done...
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.09 13:05:00 -
[91]
Hehe Donate... DONATE!! And buy yourself a Place on the Chart No wait till its finished and you get the printout version. I will see if anyone else than the few who donated will find it worth donating some ISK. I then will publish a 1.1 Version with all the names of ppl who donated. I think its important to name these ppl, since they are the ones (along with the ppl who do quality assuranc), that dont just take but also give something. But anyway, I am happy you like it.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.11 09:48:00 -
[92]
The final version has arrived. Version 1.0, last updated 11. January 2008.
As a PNG: http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.png
As a PDF: http://baal.baalnet.dyndns.org/content/downloads/files/skillchart.pdf
Still, if anyone finds something, tell me. You can convo me in game if you want to. I hope you enjoy printing it. The size is 2,000mm x 880mm.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.01.12 17:05:00 -
[93]
Projected Electronic Countermeasures should be with Cyno Field Theory in the Capital related skills box of the Electronics skills, as the Projected ECM Burst can only be used on Motherships.
Other than that, nice chart. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Myra Rodan
Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.01.16 13:52:00 -
[94]
my apologies, I had thought destroyers was the prereq for interdictors, since they're based off the destroyer hull. I see now that I was wrong. Sorry for any confusion.
Selling and delivering boosters anywhere in Eve. Message me for a quote. |
Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2008.01.18 23:39:00 -
[95]
I still haven't gotten it printed, but I'll try to get to it this coming week. Will post pictures soonÖ.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.19 13:43:00 -
[96]
Looking forward to it...
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2008.01.19 23:18:00 -
[97]
Oliver: When you say that it's 2mX88cm have you created the PDF in a fixed resolution? I don't have any fancy editing programs like InDesign or something to that equivalent so I can't check (don't even know if it's possible) I was under the impression that all PDFs was vector based, and as such were resolution-independent. So the only limiting factor should be how large the printer is?
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OBeE1
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.01.20 07:42:00 -
[98]
you have a pdf as printable version, but it seems to be one big page, when i print it off its so tiny & smooshed up i cant read it. Am i missing something or is everyone else just editing this in photoshop then printing it off that way?
Great chart btw
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:16:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Oliver G on 20/01/2008 15:22:55 Edited by: Oliver G on 20/01/2008 15:18:23 PDF is indeed vector based and therefore the term "fixed size" is a bit irritating. I have designed the chart in 2m x 88cm and thus, it only looks good in that size. So as soon as you print it smaller than 2m x 88cm, it has to look bad since the printer (or its software) tries to scale it down, making the font impossible to read and lines disappear and so on. The information within the image is still there, but you cant see it anymore. Editing PDF could be possible (since it is vector based), though I never tried that. Do you need a different size? But as I said earlier, rescaling wont solve any problems, it just gets smaller if I would export it on, lets say 1m x 44cm. Oh and yes, it is one big page, that was the idea behind the whole project. Lerinda, post pictures as soon as you got it printed, I really want to see it printed.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:59:00 -
[100]
Will do. Going downtown tomorrow to see if they can do it on the spot.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:59:00 -
[101]
Thanks to Polaris Lumine for another donation :) Now I have also included the hint from Jurgen Cartis. The version is now 1.01 22 Jan 08. I think we can now call it "very final". Everybody have fun with it and dont miss the pictures thas Lerinda will (hopefully) post soon. Nice community here to work with!
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Polaris Lumine
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:04:00 -
[102]
You're welcome regards the donation.
Very nice work. Thanks!
Now....to make it HTML and clickable...and AJAX ready...and...and..just everything ;)
j/k
-- Polaris Lumine
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2008.01.22 16:05:00 -
[103]
I hit a little snag, no company in town had equipment that could produce prints at the size I wanted. I've talked the engineer operating the printer at a larger commercial advertising company and mailed him just now to make sure the file is in order. Hopefully I'll get an answer tomorrow.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.22 17:10:00 -
[104]
Did i just read the buzzword starting with an "A"? lol
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Lerinda Rasa
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:47:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Lerinda Rasa on 25/01/2008 16:50:33 Print is here :)
Full size Size comparison
Note: The camera was set to ISO1600 so there's some noise to the pictures, and I didn't have any decent lightsource to work with so I had to use the camera flash. I might put up some better pictures if I can be arsed. The rulers in the second picture are roughly 20 inches long, but kinda of hard to see so I put my cell phone in there to compensate.
EDIT: The chart is actually really clean and the text looks good, I blame my handholding of the camera for the fuzzy appearance.
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.25 18:29:00 -
[106]
Wow it looks great. Exactly as I intended :) Gotta get a print myself!
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Midnight Halo
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Posted - 2008.02.05 22:04:00 -
[107]
What's the skill "Mnemonics" in the Booster/Science area? It's not on the market...
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:03:00 -
[108]
Looks like you found a new one. Updated the chart already. I will upload it later...
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Duncan Jax
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.02.08 14:50:00 -
[109]
Both links are dead now, for me anyway.
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Zev'Nar
Minmatar Carebear Salvagers Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.08 17:58:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Duncan Jax Both links are dead now, for me anyway.
I can't download it aswell.
Found a mirror of the jpeg. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/skillchart.png
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.09 09:30:00 -
[111]
The original links should now work again. The problems occur due to the dyndns.org service i use...
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Feek
United Nations Intelligence Taskforce Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.02.19 17:20:00 -
[112]
No, the original links don't work. Can you host them somewhere else? I'd like the pdf version. --
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.20 16:35:00 -
[113]
Hey Ladys... since the Dyndns stuff makes too much trouble, I uploaded the pdf-version to eve-files.com... Thats da link: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/skillchart.pdf
Have fun.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Lindsay Fox
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Posted - 2008.02.24 06:45:00 -
[114]
Hats off to Oliver - I've been using CorelDraw for nearly 20 years and I keenly appreciate how much work this must have been.
I have one really minor gripe, and I know it seems petty....but the main Eve logo is too close to the text under it. Can you add 1 or 2 cm space there? It just kind of upsets the balance of the page and I plan to print it out as a birthday gift for a friend...it just kind of annoys me :P
Also, I sent money :)
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.25 17:33:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Oliver G on 25/02/2008 17:35:39 Hi Lindsay, nicely done! I like the idea with that background image. Can you post a link to it in realsize? I can try to include it within the original cdr file. I added some more space between the eve logo and the subheading. For the frame around the image: there is no room left :( Some nice day, I will have a printout and the printer I use can only do up to 88cm :( Anyway, thanks a lot for the cash!
Oh and btw: the new PDF-Link is: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/skillchart%5B1%5D.pdf
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Lindsay Fox
Disciples of Comus
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Posted - 2008.02.26 12:02:00 -
[116]
huge moros picture
2.6mb
easy enough to do with any of the 1920x1200 trinity promo screenies really...
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Zara Torbe
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Posted - 2008.02.26 13:13:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Oliver G
Oh and btw: the new PDF-Link is: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/skillchart%5B1%5D.pdf
Is it just me or is that horribly out of focus and not actually able to be read?
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.26 14:55:00 -
[118]
LoL no it was not just you... the file was corrupt. I made a new one... Try this: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/skillchart%5B2%5D.pdf
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Zaknussem
Caldari The Ironbreakers
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Posted - 2008.02.26 15:39:00 -
[119]
Nice work, though I lament the removal of the .png version for the more recent updates.
I also noticed a spelling error. The credits say "Inspiered by the works of Heather Skarsgard and Budtz Taki." That should be "inspired".
Also, while using Foxit Reader, the small L's and the capital I's come out all wrong, like they're in a bold font. Dunno which is causing it, the document or the reader.
Anyway, keep up the good work! |
Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.27 21:38:00 -
[120]
Hey guys, there is a new version. But I just corrected the spelling... The "l" and "L" look wierd on screen, but when you print it, it looks fine. Sorry that i dont upload an png anymore, but you can easily create one from the pdf (i think :D)...
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/skillchart%5B3%5D.pdf
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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