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Donatien Francois
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Posted - 2007.12.08 23:00:00 -
[1]
To current Carrier pilots from a future carrier pilot, I know a lot of talk has gone around lately about the carrier being too powerful and the devs feel it needs a nerf of some sort so that it doesn't become the end-all ultimate ship in the game. Personally I disagree, because a dreadnought in siege mode with some good modules and faction XL ammo does three times as much damage as a carrier with 15 fighters, only it can't hit much smaller than a capital ship. Since damage is clearly not the factor, it must be the versatility of the carrier. So to congeal ideas from some other threads I've read, would the following be a satisfactory "nerf" that doesn't completely screw over the ship but still keeps it in check in the grand scheme of things?
Set the bandwidth requirement of fighters to 150 Set the bandwidth allocation of all carriers and mother ships to 750 (enough for 5 fighters) Lower the volume of fighters to 500m3 Lower the size of carrier and mother ship drone bays proportionally. Add the function +150 bandwidth to Drone Control Modules Add the ability of Carriers to set up to 3 (motherships 5) different targets for their drones in groups of five. Add one high slot to all carriers and mother ships. Remove 200% fighter control range bonus from ship descriptions. Make Triage Module available to all capital ships. Add Drone Siege Module with abilities as follows: 200% bonus to fighter control range Carrier bandwidth bonus: 750 Mothership bandwidth bonus: 2250 Max Velocity -100% Consumption Type: Strontium Clathrates Consumption Quantity: 500 Duration: 600 seconds
The net effect of this "nerf" is that the carrier and mothership still have the same number of drones available to them as before, but must be deployed to utilize their full allotment at full range. Also with the reduced size of fighters and drone bays, they won't be able to fit 200 heavy drones in the same space as 1 fighter (now only 20, still kind of high, but what can you do?) for unlimited versatility. This has the secondary effect of making fighters small enough to be carried a few at a time in industrial ships, making their transport through low or no sec less of a logistical nightmare.
Remember, carriers are going to get nerfed. Screaming "don't nerf them" isn't going to do any good, but you can decide how they get nerfed. If as current carrier pilots this compromise sounds acceptable or needs work, let me know politely below.
Flagship and Titans POS Warfare |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.08 23:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 08/12/2007 23:57:46
Originally by: Donatien Francois Add Drone Siege Module
No. -----
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.12.09 10:37:00 -
[3]
No.
There have been similar, but better changes proposed to deal with CCP's dislike of Carriers as the next class over battleships and force more specialization.
People don't like siege-equivalent modes because it makes them sitting ducks if the situation changes dramatically. For POS, it is accepted as the target is not going anywhere. For this, Carrier goes into drone siege, target warps, Carrier is a giant liability for the next 10 minutes. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Donatien Francois
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Posted - 2007.12.10 03:23:00 -
[4]
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the intelligent response. Much better than the guy above you, but what do you expect out of someone from BoB? What are these other "better" proposals you mentioned?
Flagship and Titans POS Warfare |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.12.10 08:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Donatien Francois Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the intelligent response. Much better than the guy above you, but what do you expect out of someone from BoB? What are these other "better" proposals you mentioned?
Here's the thread Carrier Proposal.
I'd personally take the OP's idea and make an entire new slot type for em, for Carriers/MS only. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Donatien Francois
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Posted - 2007.12.10 22:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Donatien Francois on 10/12/2007 22:45:33
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis I'd personally take the OP's idea and make an entire new slot type for em, for Carriers/MS only.
Well, it had been suggested on various levels that all capital ships get a special slot type with which to fit many of the extras like corporate hangar and ship maintenance bays that they currently have, as well as some of the capital ship only modules like clone bays and even siege or triage modules, freeing up some normal slots for more fittings, but at the same time limiting the number of capital ship goodies that any one ship can field. And I still like my idea of the triage module becoming available to all capital ships. They're just such big investments, it would be nice to have that little last ditch defense for all of them, not just carriers and moms.
In any case, after careful consideration, I'd have to disagree with your above statement that a siege module for carriers would cripple the craft. Capital ships are supposed to be powerful, not convenient, and you're not supposed to be taking them into smaller skirmishes, so your concern that a carrier or mother ship in siege mode would become a liability, I think, is unfounded, since in the end it would only limit the types of encounters in which it would be useful, much like the dreadnought.
Flagship and Titans POS Warfare |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.10 23:15:00 -
[7]
unless any ship can launch unlimited drones (untill max bandwits). then NO carriers shouldn't be any different and no they shouldn't be freigters either now stop it ;)
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Suoh Amshar
Amarr Sane Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Buyerr unless any ship can launch unlimited drones (untill max bandwits). then NO carriers shouldn't be any different and no they shouldn't be freigters either now stop it ;)
i dont understand what youre saying at all. please restate it more clearly.
back to original thing. OP's idea isnt bad but it needs work.I dont think that Triage should be available to all ships. i do like the drone control thing tho. if you used that it would limit the carrier/mom to one specialization: if you want drones, you cant do everything else. To be able to use either the triage, drone thing, or whatever it should take alot of extra skills.
someone argued that doing this would make carriers a liability. well it would. but thats the point. you cant just fire up the big guns whenever you want. pick your encounters. the ship isnt totally crippled w/o the module, its just weaker. if youre fighting a little group of BS you shouldnt need it but if youre in a fleet battle then fire away.
even weakened, if you cant take out a couple bs with 5 fighters then you shouldnt be in a carrier. not only that but carriers arent meant to be solo ships. bring some friends along to help out. thats what CCP wants anyway.
so yeah. it needs some work, but thats what sisi is for. /signed
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Mymain DreadMoros
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:54:00 -
[9]
No.
I'm personally a Dread pilot and im not currently interested in flying a carrier. I have fought carriers that were piloted by players that have at least 2 years of training for carrier related skills and they arent a match for a dread. They do put up a good fight but they simply cant stike any target hard enough to be considered the pwnmobile that some players make them out to be. Carrier nerfing? No chance. They are very good if used wisely but as they stand they dont need nerfing at all.
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Justine DeSade
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Posted - 2007.12.14 20:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros No.
I'm personally a Dread pilot and im not currently interested in flying a carrier. I have fought carriers that were piloted by players that have at least 2 years of training for carrier related skills and they arent a match for a dread. They do put up a good fight but they simply cant stike any target hard enough to be considered the pwnmobile that some players make them out to be. Carrier nerfing? No chance. They are very good if used wisely but as they stand they dont need nerfing at all.
I think what you're missing is the role of a carrier vs. a dreadnought. Of course a dreadnought is more than a match for a carrier in shear firepower, but have you tried taking out even a few battleships, let alone anything smaller? Carriers can rip through these smaller ships, but simply lack the firepower to stand up against a mobile artillery piece like a dreadnought.
Again, Dreadnought against anything bigger than a battleship = death, Carrier against anything smaller than a capital ship = death. This is kind of how it should be, but as it stands the dreadnought needs to enter a siege mode and carriers and mother ships don't.
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