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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Svengali
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:07:00 -
[91]
Two things need to be addressed by a moon mineral change. Existing dysp moons need to retain value to spur wars over minerals (ie user generated content). Also, like the T2 BPO design, it would be nice to have a fixed price adaptive release valve on moon mineral prices.
It would also be nice to generate more user generated content possibilities, like small scale wars in 0.3 between smaller corps.
A good price to really get the dysp wars going would be somewhere around 100k. Already at ~50k some tension is being created.
I think the alchemical way provides this. It should take a number of large POS, on the order of 4 to produce the output of 1 small dysp moon (though soon to be all beefed up to 1 large im sure). This adds the fixed cost of each POS + the time/cost for fueling and moving and various logistics.
This would take it out of the single person realm and into the small industrial corps.
If the alchemical reaction takes a special reactor that can only be in 0.3, then scanning for those would allow small pVp outfits to start to squabbles with the corps turning the water into wine.
If other materials become overly scarce, add more alchemical reactions.
So, it can provide tension and gameplay for the high-level hardcore gameplay as well as providing gameplay for smaller outfits just getting into the meat of the pVp game in low-sec. With the original benefit of providing a soft cap to the cost of equipment.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:23:00 -
[92]
I am going to put my hat in the realm of the MUD theory. It has all the good applications that CCP is looking for. First off, only very few people have touched on one really important fact: profit. Why open moons in high-sec and .4 space (in the current distribution) when it is not profitable to mine there? It is actually more realistic to have a tower mining just the raw material of the moon, then having to use some method to refine it. This raw material would have the chance for more valuable stuff depending on the real security where it is harvested from. Furthermore, you could gear your production supply so that it only finds the valuable materials only. While you may be getting more valuable mud to refine, your quantities of the valuable stuff will be proportionally lower than those of lower security space. Fundamentally, this solves the problem: infinitely scalable supply, and POS owners will gear their production towards what is most profitable or they need, as opposed to what they are limited to by availability.
There are two shortcomings to this: Implementation will be a pain because you have to include different kinds of mud for different security space. Maybe make the mud value dependant on where you refine it? With jump freighters, people can hide a 0.0 POS and ship low-sec mud into 0.0 for the benefit. Second shortcoming would be a bounce in supply. With dedicated moons out of the picture (maybe grandfather a few in?) the quantities for certain materials will get out of skew until the prices stabilize. This could take over a month.
What this does offer is scalability: manufacture what you want/need, different cool POS modules, maybe adding in an exploration element to increase yield? ------------------------ Exploration: A discipline for those who have a lot of time, don't want to put in a lot of effort, and have a high tolerance for mental anguish. |
Hardigeen
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Posted - 2007.12.15 03:54:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Dianabolic Edited by: Dianabolic on 14/12/2007 19:45:33 erm, explain once again why you think you "need" to increase the number of components entering the market?
I certainly agree that promethium and dysprosium are imbalanced (and have been from the start due to the number of comps they are used to build), but the general statement that "we need more comps" is based on what?
Won't that, again, make everything so ultimately cheap that there is no penalty to death, just like t1 became?
I don't think death in T1 has no penalty due to the fact that T1 is cheap. T1 can be expensive, battleships for example. There is no punishment due to insurance covering the full cost of T1. I would think twice taking T1 battleship into the fight if I didn't know insurance will pay for the new one.
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Trivas
NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.15 05:23:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Jacque Custeau I understand that those advocating the "alchemy" option (lead->gold)are saying it will be an inefficient process, but that still does not make it a good solution. What happens when there is a morphite shortage? do we come out with a Morphite BPO that converts other minerals into Morphite? No we wouldn't, because that would be unfair to the mercoxit miners.
What happens when there is a shortage of Mercoxit is more people start mining it!!!! The reason that people are advocating this idea is that more people cannot mine the rare moon materials, as only one POS may be anchored at a given moon and only a select few moons have the materials in question and that the output of a moon mining array is fixed. There is a limit to the production of these rare moon materials that does not exist with the roid materials. Thus some way of producing more to meet market demands is needed; more players will alway increase the demand (more players can fly t2 ships and thus want them) but if the supply remains constant then the price will always increase until its out of control!! I don't understand why the idea of needing a way to make supply more closely match demand, which will always increase and thus so must supply, eludes so many people.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.15 05:27:00 -
[95]
The amount entering the market doesn't need to increase an easy way, just like T2 BPOs, the caps have been removed via BPCs, a non-fixed but at greater cost way needs to come into the other end of it.
Short term though they could probably do some balancing of requirements (Prometium could be removed from Ferrogel in favour of one of the lesser used reactions) - (Promethium is used twice in Ferrogel)
I don't think they can make many more changes to the reactions than that short term, other reductions would have to come by changing the proportion of required materials in T2 production. (More low ends less high ends).
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.12.15 10:36:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Kaaii
I hope the devs keep reading this thread too, I have high hopes here....
Absolutely, tis' why I replied the first time round because it is something we are looking at internally and we are interested in getting opinions and feedback on the subject from all player perspectives out there and starting a discussion on the topic.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.15 11:13:00 -
[97]
I'm curious, are there still moons out there that are capable of producing Dysprosium/Promethium and do not have a POS anchored? If so, how many?
If the above question is no, then it might be a good idea to add moons that have that capability. I think it's a bad idea to change moons that are already available, and if done it should be announced so that folks that scan moons (I'm not one of those) don't know where to start or end scanning. Increasing output of moons just makes those specific moons more valuable (creating another T2 BPO situation). The easiest way is to seed new planets with new moons, as is evident in our own solar system, new planets will get discovered in time (might be able to add a few planets this way to eve). The other way is to introduce a few new solar systems in eve. You might even make some interesting events out of these...
These kinds of things (moons/solar systems) really need to scale better to the amount of active accounts.
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Cail Fortestan
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.15 11:42:00 -
[98]
The scalability issue is key here for a long term fix.
Exploration is already there as a scalable mechanism. The discovery rates can be tweaked in the background without upsetting lots of people.
Exploration of "hidden" moons could be done at random sites like current exploration sites, or the "hidden" bit could be at existing moons using a random discovery of a new, limited rare item.
Adding a new mini profession into the mix (akin to Hacking/Archaeology sounds the right way to go).
Idea #1 :
So, here's how I see one route :
1. New mini profession allows additional chance of finding limited supply of rare item when scanning a moon. (maybe with additional modules for extra boost)
2. Erect POS, mine the rare item.
3. When the rare item runs out, take down POS and ship results to market.
4. Rescan moons at some time in the future when the rare item may respawn elsewhere in the system/constellation/region.
Idea #2 : A further idea would be for a char to retain some knowledge of the moons scanned and increase chance of finding a rare item (or reduce cost) on rescanning. IMHO, the in-game system should retain knowledge of moon scanned, a bit like bookmarks.
Idea #3 : Make new reactions available to convert mud into gold, but require them to use a catalyst. Reaction easy to get hold of, POS easy to setup, etc.
The Catalyst is discoverable through exploration.
Example : I find 100 units of "Dysporite Catalyst" at an exploration site. I load this into my Simple Reactor as a catalyst and add (e.g.) Silicates and Hydorcarbons. Catalyst is used up at the rate of 1 unit per hour.
Once the catalyst runs out, reaction stops.
1. This is scalable - more explorers = more catalyst. 2. Allows the "little guy" to do a bit of ninja production (or just to sell the catalyst. 3. Allows tweaking of drop rates as needed. 4. Doesn't interfere with main moon mechanics.
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Cail Fortestan
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.15 11:48:00 -
[99]
On the T2 production side, T2 component production rates need to be looked at.
Currently it takes one alt almost fulltime producing T2 components just to keep up with one command ship blueprint production. With the introduction of T2 BSs, it needs several alts producing full time to keep up with production.
Any reduction in component production time would be very useful.
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benzeb
Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.15 13:49:00 -
[100]
Edited by: benzeb on 15/12/2007 13:52:10 Your proposition are really enormous in term of time playing Cail, moon scanning is very long and installing pos manufacturing too.We need something more strong than an exploration system of each moon.
1. I think perhaps some moon harvesters how scrap all it cans in the moon, moons would have few quantity of other products, not only 100 of something or nothing, like in reality for the uranium extraction in the worlds, but it will have a problem with the actual silo system if there is too much variety by moon.
2. Or a new module like a nuclear fusion reactor(third type of reactor) what can transform simple atoms(witch can be common gazes) in heavy metal(witch can be per exemple promethium, dyspro, etc). So the reverse of the fission.
The first will need a rescan of all your sector moon, we perhaps need the bpo of the survey probe. The second could be like the invention system give a T2 possibility industry for the deep space 0.0.
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Braaage
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.15 17:30:00 -
[101]
I bought 12 million tungsten carbide material for our first Ark, how long is that supply gonna last.... not long me thinks. -- eve-guides.com All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, EVE Database + much more!! |
Miranda Duvall
Gallente Khaos Tech
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Posted - 2007.12.15 17:43:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Cail Fortestan On the T2 production side, T2 component production rates need to be looked at.
Currently it takes one alt almost fulltime producing T2 components just to keep up with one command ship blueprint production. With the introduction of T2 BSs, it needs several alts producing full time to keep up with production.
Any reduction in component production time would be very useful.
This may actually be the intention of CCP: It will become increasingly difficult for a sigle person to do an entire T2 production chain, therefore teamwork is stimulated.
You can either get your corp/alliance members to take over part of the production chain, or buy components from dedicated component producers. This way more PEOPLE are involved, instead of just more manufacturing lines for 1 character, or several ALTS/CHARACTERS of the same perrson.
I for one applaud initiatives where you are forced to team up. More oppertunities for all! (not just for 1 person)
My Skills -Invention HowTo |
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.15 22:47:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Admiral Nova The amount entering the market doesn't need to increase an easy way, just like T2 BPOs, the caps have been removed via BPCs, a non-fixed but at greater cost way needs to come into the other end of it.
Short term though they could probably do some balancing of requirements (Prometium could be removed from Ferrogel in favour of one of the lesser used reactions) - (Promethium is used twice in Ferrogel)
I don't think they can make many more changes to the reactions than that short term, other reductions would have to come by changing the proportion of required materials in T2 production. (More low ends less high ends).
The problem with trying to balance demand between materials at any level of the chain, is that as the game goes forward, the modules at the top of the chain are going to get more and less popular depending on other balance changes, FOTM etc, shifting demand all the way down the chain. If you reconfigured the requirements to result in the desired distribution of demand, I guarantee that in 6 months it would be completely skewed again. The only way to avoid this would be to have every item require every material in your desired ratios - at which point you may as well only have one material at each rarity level and simplify the chain massively. Or, you could do a broader adjustment that just sees the total at each rarity level the same for each module, and introduce "silver into gold" reactions that allow you to convert materials within the same rarity tier. But that would still beg the question of what the point was of having more than 1 material in each rarity tier. And the "Tech 1.5" items (e.g. probes requiring hypersynaptic fibers) would also be a sticking point there.
The other alternative is to have a means for the supply chain to compensate across rarity levels in order to conform to the shape of demand. Which is what ideas like Alchemy or Geology do. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.12.16 08:38:00 -
[104]
A %-based distribution of materials for each moon.
Now we have moons which can have several materials and each of the materials can have several abundancies. But for each moon the moon material is either there or not (0% or 100%).
What I think would be better is a %-based distribution.
a) Having a full list of all materials in the moon. Some materials should be abundant (>25%) and some should be very rare (<1%).
b) You could set up your miners then what they should mine and the amount you get is based then on the abundancy. For example if a moon miner could extract 400 units per hour and you have an abundancy of 25% you get 100 units - same as now. But if you choose to mine the ultra rare material (0.25%) you only get 1 unit! All is up to you what you mine then and why.
c) Abundant moons would be still the most profitable moons of course (100+ units per hour). But you have chance to mine other, more rare, stuff (1 unit per hour only for example).
d) Nothing would be changed in the wealth distribution and the valuable moons will be still worth to fight over. At the same time, small corps and entreprneurs would have a better chance to become independent - if they want. It would also imply some fuzzy price cap on the prices (upper AND lower) because at a certain price-level people will start to switch the moon harvested materials.
e) More divesity can be created in the moon material distribution. Nowadays a moon of abundancy 1 ALWAYS is the same. With described changes a moon with 25% abundancy of a material can still differ greatly from other 25% moons because the distribution of the other materials can differ vastly - it is a big differency if you have 0.25% or 2.5% dys!
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NocturnalDeath
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.16 09:13:00 -
[105]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Kaaii
I hope the devs keep reading this thread too, I have high hopes here....
Absolutely, tis' why I replied the first time round because it is something we are looking at internally and we are interested in getting opinions and feedback on the subject from all player perspectives out there and starting a discussion on the topic.
Please don't change anything... Let the market sort itself out.
Ship prices are WAY too low in my opinion.
No I don't own a high end moon :(
If I wanted one bad enough I would go take somebody elses, and in my opinion that is what this game is about.
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Catherine Plume
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:30:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Catherine Plume on 16/12/2007 11:38:19 Edited by: Catherine Plume on 16/12/2007 11:35:52 1) The system is excellent as it is, it worked for years, there is no need to change the output of reactions for advanced materials, and no need to change the quantites of advanced materials to build a T2 component (or even a capital T2 component) 2) Low-Sec is not populated enough 3) we need more of some raw materials without grieving the moon miners which make a good profit from their hard defended moons 4) market price regulation by players is the best way to balance things (offer/demand)
my idea (Moon ninja mining)
a big probe (>100m3), which is sent like the other moon probes . Before to lauch a probe a small menu allows to select which material will be searched on the surface of the moon. So the probe is fired to a POS'less moon, it lands, and starts to probe the surface in the search of veins of small amounts of the selected materials for a few days (let's say 3 days)
it's chance based so after these 3 days the probe sends a message : - There's nothing usefull on that moon, I self destruct - I've found xxxx (200 to 1999) units of the selected material, come to the moon for a pickup - I've found 2000 units of the selected material, my cargo bay is full, come to the moon for a pickup
Then the player has to use an industrial fitted with a new module : some kind of laser wich is used to transport the materials from the robot on the surface to the cargohold at an increased rate. The laser is not hard to fit but requires a big amount of energy to run so the industrial has to use cap booster and charges to make it run. It transfers at the rate of 200 units per minute to the indus cargohold, so the pilot has to take a risk, standing near to a moon for a little while.
Once transfered, he stil have to make it back to a safe place to store or to sell the collected materials
sorry for my poor english, I hope that this idea to port ninja mining will seduce some people in the Dev's team
edit : different quality of probes, for different success chances (like decryptors in the invention system) edit 2 : the quantity of simultaneous active robots on different moons is skill based : 5 at level 5 one robot per moon per pilot at once
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.16 12:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Cail Fortestan On the T2 production side, T2 component production rates need to be looked at.
Currently it takes one alt almost fulltime producing T2 components just to keep up with one command ship blueprint production. With the introduction of T2 BSs, it needs several alts producing full time to keep up with production.
Any reduction in component production time would be very useful.
Pretty sure this is the intention, CCP have been increasing production times across the board to get more players involved in the supply chain. It would be helpful if they could remove the wastage from the component assembly array though. It would help speed things along a little.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.16 12:58:00 -
[108]
One of the issues with having single valuable moons is that people fight over the moons themselves, hitting them into reinforced etc, disrupting supply. If the 'area' had more valuable moons instead of just 1-2 it would spread that out so that it wouldn't be as easy to cut off. And make taking the territory more worthwhile than just skirmishing.
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diskONE
Caldari Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.16 14:59:00 -
[109]
i guess i have come full circle. I would rather keep the moon extraction the same. With the rares becoming truly rare(dysporium and promethium), people are defending them better, and wars are breaking out to get them. I think that this is a good thing in eve, rather than you just sitting comfortably and not worrying about them, because it wasnt worth the isk to attack them. Now everyone with a rare moon better be prepared and able to withstand attacks from other parties ____________________________________________
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:03:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Lara Dantreb Dysprosium : 60000 pu atm
reactors cost now 50000 isks to produce.
say hello to the good old time when Cerberus and Ishtars worthed 250 Mil because it's coming again and soon, nothing will stop the process, a cartel controls Dysprosium prices and it's gonna kill something in the production process
FINALLY, conquerable "bpo's"
Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
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ragewind
Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.16 16:00:00 -
[111]
increase the supply of moons producing minerals will help and will allow for a wide spared of player to get involved in this trade.
the alchemy idea is a really cleaver and logical idea and well worth introducing will help with the uses and value of lower level moons they just are not mined due to there low value.
the idea of using exploration to introduce a supply of mineral is also an idea that is fighting with the game and the luck of the game.
though the idea of finding a "moon" in an exploration site is unrealistic and just wont work, we can change these to dungeons like we currently have were there was an angel station that mined out an asteroid or a commit possibly bring in some other random factions too the "7 pirates" or drop a caldari navy fleet in to deep gariters space so it makes it more interesting and fitting with the idea of the factional war fair. then once you have killed of the holding faction you can loot there storage area ect and take what they had. no need for newer players to have to get a pos and mine it or get odd skills ect just adds a chance elerment to the suply
taking pos to exploration sites to mine could end up being a way of exploiting the pos system.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.16 16:15:00 -
[112]
Originally by: diskONE i guess i have come full circle. I would rather keep the moon extraction the same. With the rares becoming truly rare(dysporium and promethium), people are defending them better, and wars are breaking out to get them. I think that this is a good thing in eve, rather than you just sitting comfortably and not worrying about them, because it wasnt worth the isk to attack them. Now everyone with a rare moon better be prepared and able to withstand attacks from other parties
I've scanned three 0.0 regions and not found any Dysprosium / Promethium. On the other hand one region I know has six..... I figured on the basis of my scans there was about 10-12 in the whole game. In many ways they're like 10/10 plex's when they were static. I'd rather see a more even spread rather than one region getting such an advantage. After all, one region like that is much easier to defend.
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Niki Silver
Ethereal Imperium
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Posted - 2007.12.16 20:22:00 -
[113]
Please no random or chance based moon mining / reacting.
The cost and logistics are just too expensive and complicated to take away consistency / production rates.
Dysprosium and Promethium are required for too many reactions and too frequently. Ferrogel even uses promethium twice ffs. I understand that ccp prefers to make a change at the beginning or end of the process rather then disrupt the reactions but honestly they need to.
Simply increasing production rate of existing moons really isn't much of a solution. There are still too few of them and when the area they are in becomes contested production halts.
Build of materials for T2 components needs an overhaul. They should be more like T1 ships and modules in the sense that the ratio of 'commons' to 'rares' that goes into making them is proportional in value. aka your ship uses a lot of trit and a little bit of zyd, but the base price value of the trit and zyd are nearly equal, they are proportional. The build of materials for T2 components look like they were just pulled out of a hat.
A thorough and balanced overhaul of T2 component BoM would REQUIRE a thorough and blanced overhaul of reactions to also be done. We have reactions like ferrogel using dysprosium and promethium twice, while the equally rare neo and thul is hardly used at all, and when they are used, its in reactions that also use dysp and prometh. wtf.
The base price / consumption distribution model used in T1 production works just fine. Lower value stuff used in high volume, higher value stuff used in lower volme, each of them contributing a proportional value to the output.
Proportions for T2 production are all out of whack. It's not just the T2 components but the T2 items themselves. T2 Battleships using 4000 reactor/sensor cluster and 6000 plate instead of 1000 reactor/sensor and 10000 plate. Or something more along those lines.
The T1 model works because a ship uses 2500+ times as much trit as it does mega, but the overall value of them is nearly the same (base price wise) The T2 model doesnt work and creates bottlenecks because the stuff is using too much high end and not enough low end. And the high end stuff is rediculously expensive while the low end stuff is all but worthless.
CCP there is a lot more to be done here then simply adjusting moon output or tweaking around with the BoM on T2 component prints. Moon distribution and potential output needs looked at. Simple Reactions need looked at. Complex Reactions need looked at. T2 component BoM needs looked at. And finally, the BoM of every T2 item in the game needs looked at.
Don't even consider adding random materials or making them deplete or some other silliness. That disrupts the 'need for speed' and it makes moon prospecting too risky to be worth doing. The cost of equipment and fuel to operate a pos is a constant, the volume of a given material it can produce needs to remain constant as well.
Side note to the 'doing it half arsed" miners/reactors out there. There are three parties involved in this process. Moon Miners, Rectors, and T2 Producers. Moon miners mine and sell raws. Reactors buy raws and turn them into advanced. T2 Produces buy advanced and turn them into the T2 components they need to build thier ****zle. Don't be a dumb ass and buy raws, turn them into some crappy simple reaction and then put it on the market to sit and collect dust. Real reactors buy raw and produce advanced. And for the moon miners, just mine the raws and bring them to market so the reactors have a supply. Comin across a moon and goin oh wow I can mine and react on the same moon is pointless unless you are going to see it through to an advanced. Again, reactors buy raws and produce advanced. Please don't waste raws by reacting into a nonexistent simple reaction market. See it through to advanced or gtfo of reacting. You are not helping, just wasting.
Ethereal Imperium [E-IMP] is recruiting! Please visit our webpage for more information. |
Omanda Incomey
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Posted - 2007.12.16 20:45:00 -
[114]
If actually collide arrays what can transmute minerals will be introduced it would be better to let transmutations only from the same rarity rack. I e you shouldnt be able make dysprosium of hydrocarbons but should be able to make it of promethium, neodymium or thulium. Also there should be some multiplier like, 100 units of thulium can be turned only to 50 or 75 units of dysprosium to do not let the prices became absolutley same for all minerals of same rarity rack.
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ragewind
Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:58:00 -
[115]
one thing for sure that wont work is T2 moon miners they will increase supply but it will only make the rich richer as they will still control the market
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MajorScrewup
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Posted - 2007.12.17 06:11:00 -
[116]
Edited by: MajorScrewup on 17/12/2007 06:14:41 Maybe one route would be to make the invention of a tech2 ship component reflect some of the qualities of the bpc.
People using ME0 BPcs would end up with the -5ME runs, adding to the cost of T2 components. Those who bought and researched their T1 ship BPOs to a decent level would get decent T2 BPcs' from copies of these researched originals.
E.g. A Dominix BPc with ME20 with successful invention, would output a Sin BPC with ME4/5.
Of course there will be tweaks all along the supply chain from moon-mining / reactions etc... I believe that each stage should be boosted/expanded on. Why give in one area and not all?
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Fleske
NED Holdings
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Posted - 2007.12.17 08:58:00 -
[117]
Just enable ME and PE research on T2 BPC. Players will find a balance between research time (cost) and components cost. Don't make it cheaper just get more players involved.
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Tyr Zewa
Caldari MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.12.17 11:24:00 -
[118]
The more i think about it, the more i see an issue with the rarity. r64 moon minerals are all supposed to have the same value, to make that happen we simply need new reactions. Adding a new ferrogel reaction based on neodymium and thulium and promethium would quickly balance the value of the four r64 minerals. Same should be done for every other reaction, add a second way to get to it.
It takes away the uniqueness a bit yeah, you could as well rename all 4 moon minerals to GenericRarity64 on the other hand it's one of the easiest ways to help the market, and it'll add alot of dynamics, because to maximise your profit, you'll have to switch to the lowest price moon mineral etc.
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Fatsam
Madhatters Inc. Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.17 12:26:00 -
[119]
It seems that all posters in this thread are taking as read that T2 metals are at their maximum rate of supply. Is this actually the case? I would say it probably is though, I canĘt imagine half dozen dysprosium moons not being mined in some region for example.
I think there are several approaches:
-Alchemy: changing other low value items into rare metals. This would essentially set a fixed price for the metals depending on how many POS are required to make x amount of a metal, as fuel prices are fairly stable by and large. This would need a base price for these metals fixing. As this would introduce more POS and reactions, this is only more time spent on boring POS stuff.
-Change advanced reactions: allowing other intermediate reactions to create advanced materials to remove the bottlenecks sounds good, as it wouldnĘt require any extra probing and allow existing resources to be exploited.
-Exploration: finding celestial objects with finite moon resources that can be mined somehow sounds like a good way to introduce extra supply.
-Adding extra rare metals to currently barren planets: Would be ok I would say, but require rescans of every moon in eve pretty much.
-Changing moon resources to finite levels and with subsequent random distribution them: would require a lot of scanning and moving POS about. Although attractive in principle the moon scanning and POS anchoring mechanics are far too cumbersome for this in my opinion.
It really depends on what ceiling CCP want to introduce for T2 parts though. I think making the other 1/64 metals reactions substitutable for Promethium/Dysprosium based reactions seems like the best way forward, with some exploration based metal harvesting possible too.
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Artmedis Valben
Gallente Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:52:00 -
[120]
Lets try having it simple.
1) New reactions: this is a good way to balance the ultra rares. New reactions that are more efficient, and are less reliant on one of the ultra rares. Give a role to Thul and Neo... (increases the number of super valuable moons).
2) Exploration, have sites where you can get moon material drops from silos and such. Have them rare at the beginning at least, so they won't unbalance things. (Adds to supply. If too common: devaluates moons)
3) Alchemy (as an invention approach) is viable, but has to be very costly, only really viable when materials are ridiculously expensive. Lets say at current moon material prices, something akin to dysprosium costing 2-3 times what it does now. It would make it possible to supply the market even if all the ultra rare moons had their POSes in reinforced mode more often than not, which I guess would be the case if dyprosium cost in excess of 200k per unit. (caps the price on ultra rares to some extent).
4) T2 Moon Harvesting Arrays (invention only?), 100% more output, 100% more CPU and grid. Basically One t2 on the most precious material or 2xT1 on two materials. (makes the moons more valuable).
I guess all of the above could be implemented one step at a time.
But I advocate options that allow a lot of room for ultra rare moons to become super valuable territorial war targets. Just make it so that there are alternative/expensive sources if these moons tend to be incapaciated.
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