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Jayne Tamm
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:31:00 -
[1]
im goin to skill for this role. essentially, just sit back and dish out gang bonuses whilst surviving, (and maybe givin some support).
I like the look of the damnation coz of its armour hitpoints and resistance bonus, but i also like the looks of the vulture.....tho the damnation looks like it would be the best for survivability. as a fleet command im not too fussed about the dps, just which one is goin to be better for small - medium and eventually larger gangs?
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.12.12 22:43:00 -
[2]
The damnation is possibly one of the hottest fleet command ships in EVE. Very difficult to kill and it provides a very useful bonus in a universe where many ships rely primarily on their armor to protect them.
The vulture is good if your corp is flying exclusively Caldari and Minmatar shieldtankers, and the Sleipnir is an excellent addition to any nano-gang. But for a generalist Fleet Command ship nothing beats the Damnation.
Passive Defense link and then one of the two others (depending on if your fleet is tanking individually or spidertanking) and then load up the rest with heavy missiles or HAMs.
Then go out and have fun with your 10+ man gang.
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-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.12 23:32:00 -
[3]
Depends on what type of gang you fly with:
-Speed gangs: Claymore
-Armour gangs: Damnation
-Shield gangs: Vulture
-Recon gangs: Eos (maybe)
Overall, I think the Claymore is the most useful (but I'm a Minmatar fanboy now, so I could be biased).
D-F-C recruitment closed |
Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.12 23:37:00 -
[4]
Damnation for armor tanking capital gangs.
"Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog |
Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.13 00:10:00 -
[5]
depends on what your gang is flying but the claymore with bonuses to speed and tackling range is pretty damn nice for roaming gangs
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Jayne Tamm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 15:11:00 -
[6]
looking at the ships bonuses, the damnation looks like it could have the best tank out of all CS's. would this be a fair statement? and other than stickin 3-4 warfare links on it, what else should be placed in the high slots of Fleet CS's. The idea of offering support is ok, but would rather leave that up to logistics ships.
Im kinda pulled towards the Vulture as most of corp is shield tanking, but man that damnations tank looks good! and that black skin too......
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Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.13 15:49:00 -
[7]
Well at CS 5 I believe the damnation comes in right at 9009 armor. If you go with a full tank, all resistances will be high 80% to low 90% range. It is a monster tank for sure.
"Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog |
Wardeneo
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Posted - 2007.12.13 16:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 13/12/2007 16:09:09
so a damnation is as good if not better at tanking than the vulture? ( and yes i understand 1 is shield tanking and the other is armor tanking).
and wud a vulture beat a damnation because it wud be passively tanked and doesnt rely on cap boosters?
wardeneo
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2007.12.13 17:36:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Wardeneo
Edited by: Wardeneo on 13/12/2007 16:09:09
so a damnation is as good if not better at tanking than the vulture? ( and yes i understand 1 is shield tanking and the other is armor tanking).
and wud a vulture beat a damnation because it wud be passively tanked and doesnt rely on cap boosters?
wardeneo
You probably going to have a solid plate tank on a damnation and since it's a missile ship it doesn't really need cap boosters at all.
-=^=-
"Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.13 17:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wardeneo
Edited by: Wardeneo on 13/12/2007 16:09:09
so a damnation is as good if not better at tanking than the vulture? ( and yes i understand 1 is shield tanking and the other is armor tanking).
and wud a vulture beat a damnation because it wud be passively tanked and doesnt rely on cap boosters?
wardeneo
it is quite a tie between both.
damnation has this large omfg armor with omfg resists, while you can passive shield tank the vulture with also omfg resists to the point where it can compete with active tanks, in terms of boosting.
in the end, both are pretty much pwn on their own.
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planetary interaction idea! |
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Victor Ivanov
Minmatar
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:08:00 -
[11]
Given that a damnation boosts its own capabilities as well, the damnation is a pure beast in terms of tanking.
Honestly, I'd say abuse the armour hit points as much as you can. Screw active tanking.
2 1600mm plates, 2 x EANM II, 1 x Energized Thermic Membrane, and then either a DCU or a Energized Regen. With 3 armored warfare gang mods, plus the mind link and lvl 3-4 skills in armored warfare specialisation you should have 85/84/86/92 with 40k armour.
Good luck getting through that. O_o
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Telonia Reis
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:12:00 -
[12]
The tanks on both are so silly strong that you will almost always be the last ship primaried unless you are escorting capitals. Plated damnations are just a lot of fun imo though, and yes they look loads better than the alternatives  .
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:16:00 -
[13]
Now that Gang Modules have had their cap use halves, the claymore with an X-Large Shield Booster, 2x Shield Booster Amps and a Crystal set, can be a very very viable ship for tanking.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.13 19:15:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 13/12/2007 19:17:08
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 13/12/2007 19:16:34
Originally by: Wardeneo
Edited by: Wardeneo on 13/12/2007 16:09:09
so a damnation is as good if not better at tanking than the vulture? ( and yes i understand 1 is shield tanking and the other is armor tanking).
They're equally good, in different ways.
The Damnation fits a massive plate tank, dual 1600mm plates = 300,000 effective HP. This is equal to about 3-4 minutes of a rigged dual-rep active tank, making it awesome for fleet fights.
The Vulture can do a similar tank, 215,000 effective HP, but 500+ dps tanked on peak regen. So it's a bit weaker at dealing with fleet alpha strikes, but probably works out a bit better for lower amounts of damage over longer times. Or, you can fit an active tank with either 1000 dps sustained as long as you have cap charges, or 800 sustained with 1400 dps peak (for about a minute 15 seconds).
The Claymore can fit either a decent speed tank, or a very nice active tank. With a large booster, it's a bit worse than the Vulture, with an XL it's an unsustainable 2000 peak dps tanked.
The Eos tanks about as well as a T1 battlecruiser.
I of course leave out passive shield tanks and Vultures with XL boosters. Regen-based passive shield tanks are not useful in PvP, because you need your cap for gang mods, warping, MWD, etc. XL boosters on the Vulture can get you the best non-capital tank in the game, while your cap lasts (about 45 seconds). But even if you don't care about sustainability, you have no MWD and no guns, so unless you want a bait ship, you might as well park the ship at a safespot.
Quote:
and wud a vulture beat a damnation because it wud be passively tanked and doesnt rely on cap boosters?
wardeneo
The fight is a draw. Even if the Vulture has a scrambler fitted, neither ship can break the other's tank. In theory, since the Damnation has no active repair ability, the Vulture would eventually win, but downtime arrives first and allows the Damnation to escape.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.12.13 19:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 13/12/2007 19:17:08
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 13/12/2007 19:16:34
Originally by: Wardeneo
Edited by: Wardeneo on 13/12/2007 16:09:09
so a damnation is as good if not better at tanking than the vulture? ( and yes i understand 1 is shield tanking and the other is armor tanking).
They're equally good, in different ways.
The Damnation fits a massive plate tank, dual 1600mm plates = 300,000 effective HP. This is equal to about 3-4 minutes of a rigged dual-rep active tank, making it awesome for fleet fights.
The Vulture can do a similar tank, 215,000 effective HP, but 500+ dps tanked on peak regen. So it's a bit weaker at dealing with fleet alpha strikes, but probably works out a bit better for lower amounts of damage over longer times. Or, you can fit an active tank with either 1000 dps sustained as long as you have cap charges, or 800 sustained with 1400 dps peak (for about a minute 15 seconds).
The Claymore can fit either a decent speed tank, or a very nice active tank. With a large booster, it's a bit worse than the Vulture, with an XL it's an unsustainable 2000 peak dps tanked.
The Eos tanks about as well as a T1 battlecruiser.
I of course leave out passive shield tanks and Vultures with XL boosters. Regen-based passive shield tanks are not useful in PvP, because you need your cap for gang mods, warping, MWD, etc. XL boosters on the Vulture can get you the best non-capital tank in the game, while your cap lasts (about 45 seconds). But even if you don't care about sustainability, you have no MWD and no guns, so unless you want a bait ship, you might as well park the ship at a safespot.
Quote:
and wud a vulture beat a damnation because it wud be passively tanked and doesnt rely on cap boosters?
wardeneo
The fight is a draw. Even if the Vulture has a scrambler fitted, neither ship can break the other's tank. In theory, since the Damnation has no active repair ability, the Vulture would eventually win, but downtime arrives first and allows the Damnation to escape.
May I ask how a Vulture out tanks the Claymore for active tank? Bear in mind that the 37.5% bonus to shield boosters does not have a stacking penalty with Shield Booster Amps.
As for unsustainable tanking, true enough. But get a logistics cruiser giving you capacitor and your good to go go go...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.13 19:22:00 -
[16]
Eos. Infowar gang bonuses are the ones that change the course of a fight in a major way.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Liet Traep
Minmatar
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.13 20:00:00 -
[17]
The information warfare links are severely underestimated by most people. The skirmish links are flashy and the shield and armor ones are easily understood. But I've been in an eos and watched my ecm and dampening buddies just shut down an opposing team.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 20:32:00 -
[18]
The best fleet command ship is the one that can fit the most command processors to have the most gang links, Atleast once you have around 2+ squads to support
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Jagaroth
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.12.13 22:16:00 -
[19]
It entirely depends on the type of fleet you're supporting.
A Vulture is a relatively poor damage dealer, but it can sit with sniper battleships and hit targets 120km beyond the range of a Damnation.
I think most of the other pros and cons have been covered, but one thing most people forget is that the harmonisation modules offer more to pilots using the opposite type of tank in battles with high alpha strikes. Pilots harden their weakest resistance so the modules have less effect.
For example, a shield harmonisation module will help armour tankers by improving the strength of their shields and in a fleet battle these do little more than operate as a buffer against alpha strikes which would otherwise go straight through to armour. A mindlink on a Vulture will give a bigger bonus (eg. 25% to EM) to an un-hardened shield; the equivalent on a Damnation would give much less (no more than 10% on EM) to un-hardened armour (and one should assume the pilot has an EANM or DCU on anyway so it would be much less than this).
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.13 22:37:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 13/12/2007 22:41:18
Originally by: Nian Banks
May I ask how a Vulture out tanks the Claymore for active tank? Bear in mind that the 37.5% bonus to shield boosters does not have a stacking penalty with Shield Booster Amps.
Three things:
1) I actually said the Claymore wins, with the XL booster setup doing quite a bit better than the Vulture as long as the cap lasts. The insane 4000 dps XL tanked Vulture is just pure stupidity, made for someone who was asking for a good bait ship. The XL Claymore tanks 2000 dps with a legitimate combat setup, quite a bit better than the practical Vulture at 1400.
2) I'd made a mistake in the rigs, the Vulture was using cycle time rigs, while the Claymore still had cap use reduction rigs to get the XL booster setup, even though it can actually sustain the large booster for longer than the Vulture without them. With the correct rigs, the large booster setup does a bit better than I said, but still nowhere near as good as the XL (obviously).
3) Gang mods make a huge difference. With shield gang mods on a LSB Claymore, the ship itself tanks 8 more dps than a LSB Vulture (while providing less benefit to the gang). But this isn't a realistic assumption... if you're flying a Claymore, you're far more likely to be running skirmish mods. If you assume that in addition to your own gang mods, you have a max-skilled Vulture pilot in the gang, you can out-tank the Vulture by a small margin (again, LSB vs. LSB), but I'm not sure it's fair to compare ship vs. ship beyond what the ship itself can bring.
Quote:
As for unsustainable tanking, true enough. But get a logistics cruiser giving you capacitor and your good to go go go...
Until someone decides to shoot the logistics cruiser... but really, this isn't a problem. Both ships can run their tanks for plenty of time without remote cap boosting (once your initial reserve is run down, you just have to run the booster less frequently to match your injector). Remember, they're fleet command ships... if you actually get called a target in a decent sized fight, you're dead before either ship runs out of cap. So the only thing you need to worry about is getting the highest peak tank, and living a bit longer... your tank is still broken and you die, but you buy your gang-mates a bit more time before they get shot at.
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TimMc
Gallente
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2007.12.13 22:59:00 -
[21]
Best Tank >>>> Claymore
Most Useful usually >>>> Damnation
Jita: No one gets out alive. |
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