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Author	Topic
GateScout	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:33:00 - [91] Here is a possible solution: The war dec costs are reimbursed by the same percentage as the dec'd corp shrinks. For example, if you dec a corp, and 75% of the members leave the corporation, 75% of the war dec fee is returned.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:33:00 - [92] Clearly you outgunned them. Get over it and find a prey that can bite back. But maybe you like easy targets and are too scared to wardec a corp that has the potential to tear you to shreds
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:34:00 - [93] Originally by: omiNATION When a corporation declares war, have them take a snapshot of the target corporation. The players, the assets, etc. For the duration of the war, all characters and assests from the snapshot are fair game. Every week the war is updated, a new snapshot is taken. This way, you can't hound a player forever, plus it would force macro farmers to either stay in NPC corps or lose a week of farming, which is irritation enough. So wait, let me see if I've got this strait. I am in corporation A that gets war'deced. A snapshot is taken with all my ISK ships and modules in it. I drop all rolls if any. 24hrs later the war starts. 5 minutes after the war starts I drop corporation and begin looking into alternatives. For 168hrs after that I am still essentially in a war I want no part of and have no stake in? Why? Just so someone can shoot at elledged farmers. Originally by: omiNATION Now to force a 25% tax on all transactions and activities while in an NPC corp, it seems unfair to 'compete' PVP, PVE, market, or otherwise while being beholden to such insurmountable protections without having to pay for it. Sheesh! Why? Player corporation members don't have to pay tax on all transactions and activities. I might say sure a corporation tax of say 5% - 10% like many player corporations that only applied to NPC kills and mission payouts might be OK. As you say NPC corporation members are in fact competing. They don't exist in a vacuum and are still subject to virtually all of the market forces people in player corporations are subject to. We kill the same NPCs in belts, we mine the same rocks, we can be undercut on the market just like everyone else. These both sound just a bit vindictive to me. One wonders what NPC corporation members did to warrant such angst.
C Black Gallente BLACK CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:38:00 - [94] All i am saying that there should be some kind of timer so that you can just leave a corp 1 second after a war dec. I will continue to chase them as long as i can afford it but game mechs has made it safe for them. In doing so also made it safe for noob player which is fine but the isk farmer are using that noob protection to the max. the 24 to 28 kill was only for the first 2 days..now they jump fast as hell. I dont want to be a pirate but well looks like that is the only way to kill them. C Black Making new sign curently....Look back later...i am working on something cool... Looking for all old friend of Wishsong Corp. eVe Mail me. C Black
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:38:00 - [95] Originally by: Anya Sardukar ITT The same people who call highsec piracy complainers whiny decide to **** and moan about a tactic people have found to avoid PvP. Cry some more. OHNOES TEH SICKRIT IS OUT!!11
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:39:00 - [96] Edited by: Vadimik on 13/12/2007 20:46:02 Originally by: Nur Vadenn One wonders what NPC corporation members did to warrant such angst. They dared to play in the small corner of the sandbox without asking the great and mightly for premission first, and then refused to come and face them. P.S. Oh, and I fully support you in that a non-consensual PvP is when you are free to both attack and flee (among other things) at will.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:45:00 - [97] Anyway, in this particular case, it has been labeled an exploit before, and it definately SHOULD be labeled an exploit now. As for single corp hoppers, well... The secret to combat those is peristance and patience. If you know what you are doing and can afford it you can make sure that player will never be able to stay in a player corp for more than 48 hours for the rest of his Eve life, if you are so inclined. For most targets this isn't worth it, but if you really have to get at that particular player, you will be able to make his life miserable enough, and all well within CCP rules. I've seen it happen, and I've done it myself. When I was in TRAPS we had this guy who said he was going to create 10 alt corps and jump between them. I think he got tired after the third jump or so, and afaik he then payed the ransom demand. This guy was a major smacktard so he had it coming, and it felt extremely good.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:48:00 - [98] Originally by: GateScout Here is a possible solution: The war dec costs are reimbursed by the same percentage as the dec'd corp shrinks. For example, if you dec a corp, and 75% of the members leave the corporation, 75% of the war dec fee is returned. Again why? You declared war. Your enemy rebelled internally and decided not to fight. You scattered your enemy to the wind shattering a player organization. You got what you paid for. How is it that you're entitled to any refund at all? Is it because you didn't get a fight? Not getting a fight seems to be a failure on your part in choosing targets not a problem with the war system. If anything war should be MORE expensive not less. That at least might make the process a little less trivial so that war makers are more studious about whom they declare war on. If you want a fight you have but to target other fighters.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:54:00 - [99] Edited by: Vadimik on 13/12/2007 20:54:48 Originally by: Ki An Anyway, in this particular case, it has been labeled an exploit before, and it definately SHOULD be labeled an exploit now. As for single corp hoppers, well... The secret to combat those is peristance and patience. If you know what you are doing and can afford it you can make sure that player will never be able to stay in a player corp for more than 48 hours for the rest of his Eve life, if you are so inclined. For most targets this isn't worth it, but if you really have to get at that particular player, you will be able to make his life miserable enough, and all well within CCP rules. I've seen it happen, and I've done it myself. When I was in TRAPS we had this guy who said he was going to create 10 alt corps and jump between them. I think he got tired after the third jump or so, and afaik he then payed the ransom demand. This guy was a major smacktard so he had it coming, and it felt extremely good. Heh, good luck following a player who went into 3rd party 0.0 space in his recon or covert op ship with your wardecs. Oh, and leaving a corp to avoid wardec is not an exploit, unless they leave just to rejoin the same corp a couple of minutes/hours later.
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:58:00 - [100] I believe wars are already more expensive than the cost of forming a new corp. From that perspective, a war of economic attrition will be won by the corp jumpers. Scattering your enemy before the wind implies that you have broken them into separate pieces. In this situation that is not true - only the name has changed. That isn't rebelling any more than moving to a different country to avoid an arrest warrant is.

Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:00:00 - [101] Originally by: Ki An Anyway, in this particular case, it has been labeled an exploit before, and it definately SHOULD be labeled an exploit now. As for single corp hoppers, well... The secret to combat those is peristance and patience. If you know what you are doing and can afford it you can make sure that player will never be able to stay in a player corp for more than 48 hours for the rest of his Eve life, if you are so inclined. For most targets this isn't worth it, but if you really have to get at that particular player, you will be able to make his life miserable enough, and all well within CCP rules. I've seen it happen, and I've done it myself. I am not sure if EVE should be lauded for this or condemned. The jury is still out for me in that regard. Perhaps time in game will change that one way or the other. you however do speak truth here. Originally by: Ki An When I was in TRAPS we had this guy who said he was going to create 10 alt corps and jump between them. I think he got tired after the third jump or so, and afaik he then payed the ransom demand. This guy was a major smacktard so he had it coming, and it felt extremely good. Hmm, I wonder if that is the same story I read on EVE Pirate a while back? It is always interesting, but not all that surprising when you hear about players like that guy was.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:10:00 - [102] Couple of things.... I agree that bounce, form new, bounce, form new, etc SHOULD be considered an exploit. They want the benefits of a PC corp without the potential drawbacks. Drop, wait out the wardec, come back in is a whole different story and allows players to continue to play if they are non-combatants (and YES there is such a thing in EvE). The difference is frequency and how they handle the time between the drop and the dec ending. For those asking for Security status loss, why? If anything the war deccers should suffer security status loss because even though what they do are within the Eve universe conventions and laws, they are STILL causing a disruption to commerce and (realistically) to life of other citizens due to stray shots, etc. Those corps being attacked are normally "peaceful" and in favorable status with the local governments and Concord... I see no reason to change the current system as long as an attacked corp has no way other than combat to get out of the situation. They cannot use their standings, their economic might, their agents, etc. They can't bride, petition the courts. The only thing they can do other than fighting is not log in or jump corps. Give them more options. Besides, when CCP asks for player input on why 37% of all characters more than a month old are in NPC corps, guess what the answer was? CCP is unlikely to do anything to make PC Corps less attractive by forcing any situations where the players can't escape wardecs.... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:27:00 - [103] Originally by: Shadow Joy I believe wars are already more expensive than the cost of forming a new corp. From that perspective, a war of economic attrition will be won by the corp jumpers. Scattering your enemy before the wind implies that you have broken them into separate pieces. In this situation that is not true - only the name has changed. That isn't rebelling any more than moving to a different country to avoid an arrest warrant is. As I understand it corporations are organizational structures designed to ease the operation of several individuals working together. Forcing one to break up removes said benefits of a corporation. If they reform under a new name just to dodge a war, its an exploit. If not you've taken an advantage away from the members of that group. I've seen several corporations which friends have been involved in broken in this manner. An ambitious CEO forms the corporation with delusions of grandeur. They get a war declaration dropped on their head for whatever reason. 24hrs û 72hrs after the shooting starts the corporation begins to fold in on itself like a neutron star because they are out gunned, out skill pointed, or not familiar with the mechanics of PvP combat. The members of said broken corporation become refugees in the NPC corporation until they quit the game or find another group to join.
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:00:00 - [104] Originally by: Nur Vadenn As I understand it corporations are organizational structures designed to ease the operation of several individuals working together. Forcing one to break up removes said benefits of a corporation. If they reform under a new name just to dodge a war, its an exploit. If not you've taken an advantage away from the members of that group. I've seen several corporations which friends have been involved in broken in this manner. An ambitious CEO forms the corporation with delusions of grandeur. They get a war declaration dropped on their head for whatever reason. 24hrs û 72hrs after the shooting starts the corporation begins to fold in on itself like a neutron star because they are out gunned, out skill pointed, or not familiar with the mechanics of PvP combat. The members of said broken corporation become refugees in the NPC corporation until they quit the game or find another group to join. I believe you are wrong on one critical point - reforming under a new name is not an exploit. Rejoining the original corp after the war declaration has expired is. That was pointed out earlier in this thread, and is what I understand the rule to be. Times like these I wish that CCP would post a clear list of what is and is not allowed. Back to your story - which I will accept at face value. While it is unfortunate that some groups of friends found themselves in different corps, that relects more on the inadequacies of their leaders than any flaws in the current war dec system. It also does not reflect on the issue the OP brought up. The group he is declaring war against is not experiencing any disadvantages worth noting. Instead they are enjoying a distinct advantage - as they can avoid the consequences of the war declaration faster than they can brought to bear.
MongWen Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:02:00 - [105] Edited by: MongWen on 13/12/2007 22:04:01 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I agree that bounce, form new, bounce, form new, etc SHOULD be considered an exploit. They want the benefits of a PC corp without the potential drawbacks. Drop, wait out the wardec, come back in is a whole different story and allows players to continue to play if they are non-combatants (and YES there is such a thing in EvE). The difference is frequency and how they handle the time between the drop and the dec ending. member off Corp A can quit thier corp when Corp B decs them. that leaves the members of Corp A with choices: 1. Go seprate ways. 2. Hang out in a NPC corp. - and rejoins Corp A after the dec it is a Exploit. - or stay there. 3. Create a new corp with a diffrent name. - and all of the member off Corp A joins that corp it issent a exploit. 4. Quit eve. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby For those asking for Security status loss, why? If anything the war deccers should suffer security status loss because even though what they do are within the Eve universe conventions and laws, they are STILL causing a disruption to commerce and (realistically) to life of other citizens due to stray shots, etc. Those corps being attacked are normally "peaceful" and in favorable status with the local governments and Concord... Since repeated corp jumping shod have a side effect to avoiding a war dec Opinions are my opinions. They do not reflect view of UCAM, if it is not stated
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:02:00 - [106] Edited by: Nyphur on 13/12/2007 22:02:19 Originally by: Shadow Joy I believe you are wrong on one critical point - reforming under a new name is not an exploit. Rejoining the original corp after the war declaration has expired is. Other way around, mate. A pilot leaving a corp for the duration of a war is perfectly acceptable. Disbanding a corp and reforming it to forcibly remove a wardec is an exploit. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Khudo	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:04:00 - [107] Empire Pvp mechanics are broken. - You can dodge a war as you want when you want. The permission to kill is located at the corp level. What if wardecing a corp gives you, and your attacking corp, "classic" killrights to the players located in the wardeced corp? If a player in the targeted corp just leave, he is still a valid target. The war can be ended with mutual agreement + options to be immune from the attacking corp for an amount of time. (a peace treaty) - The bounty system don't allow you to chase your target in high sec or without loss of ss + the bounty is a gift to the outlaw =p It would be cool if we could trade kill rights (with no combo with said above). - The suicide gankers don't have to fear retaliation. If trading killrights exist, the hauleur could give the right to kill to its corpmates or give it (+ a litle cash) to bounty hunters. Suicide gank could still exists and victims could have some revenge + allowing creation of police sevices + moar fun in pivipi. SO, pirates would be very happy with wardec modification that really annoy people. Honest people can retaliate. Bounty hunters are fixed up. Police corps will be created.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:14:00 - [108] Originally by: Khudo Empire Pvp mechanics are broken. - You can dodge a war as you want when you want. The permission to kill is located at the corp level. What if wardecing a corp gives you, and your attacking corp, "classic" killrights to the players located in the wardeced corp? If a player in the targeted corp just leave, he is still a valid target. The war can be ended with mutual agreement + options to be immune from the attacking corp for an amount of time. (a peace treaty) - The bounty system don't allow you to chase your target in high sec or without loss of ss + the bounty is a gift to the outlaw =p It would be cool if we could trade kill rights (with no combo with said above). - The suicide gankers don't have to fear retaliation. If trading killrights exist, the hauleur could give the right to kill to its corpmates or give it (+ a litle cash) to bounty hunters. Suicide gank could still exists and victims could have some revenge + allowing creation of police sevices + moar fun in pivipi. SO, pirates would be very happy with wardec modification that really annoy people. Honest people can retaliate. Bounty hunters are fixed up. Police corps will be created. I dunno, but all these points seem fair to me. Sure, I'm pretty tired, but if this was implemented I wouldn't cry.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:24:00 - [109] Originally by: Shadow Joy I believe you are wrong on one critical point - reforming under a new name is not an exploit. Rejoining the original corp after the war declaration has expired is. That was pointed out earlier in this thread, and is what I understand the rule to be. Times like these I wish that CCP would post a clear list of what is and is not allowed. Hmm, you might be right there. I too would welcome a post or page where CCP clearly spelled out the rule and policy in regards to this and many other things. Unfortunately the pages I've found so far may be out of date. Originally by: Shadow Joy Back to your story - which I will accept at face value. While it is unfortunate that some groups of friends found themselves in different corps, that relects more on the inadequacies of their leaders than any flaws in the current war dec system. Indeed. I don't see the events in my cited example as a failing of the war system. Clearly either the leadership was ill prepared or there was some other failure within the corporation. The war declaration only provided the pressure needed to speed the corporation's collapse. I do wonder though how many corporations finding themselves in a similar situation might have thrived given more time to mature before exposure to such a war. Originally by: Shadow Joy It also does not reflect on the issue the OP brought up. The group he is declaring war against is not experiencing any disadvantages worth noting. Instead they are enjoying a distinct advantage - as they can avoid the consequences of the war declaration faster than they can brought to bear. Debatable. I could see the effort needed to stay ahead of the original poster's war'decs as being an administrative disadvantage itself. Creating and training alts, then moving members between corporations has got to be somewhat time consuming. I know there would be things I would rather be doing with my time. I am sure whomever is running those corporations had other things in mind when they logged onto EVE before the OP started declaring war.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:35:00 - [110] Originally by: Khudo Empire Pvp mechanics are broken. - You can dodge a war as you want when you want. The permission to kill is located at the corp level. What if wardecing a corp gives you, and your attacking corp, "classic" killrights to the players located in the wardeced corp? If a player in the targeted corp just leave, he is still a valid target. The war can be ended with mutual agreement + options to be immune from the attacking corp for an amount of time. (a peace treaty) No, if I leave a corporation that happens to be at war I should leave that war behind too. The war declaration was made on a group. It should stay with that group. If you had a personal issue with an individual you are free to declare war on any player corporation they my join in the future. As was said in a previous post this can and has been done before. Originally by: Khudo - The bounty system don't allow you to chase your target in high sec or without loss of ss + the bounty is a gift to the outlaw =p It would be cool if we could trade kill rights (with no combo with said above). - The suicide gankers don't have to fear retaliation. If trading killrights exist, the hauleur could give the right to kill to its corpmates or give it (+ a litle cash) to bounty hunters. Suicide gank could still exists and victims could have some revenge + allowing creation of police sevices + moar fun in pivipi. Transferable kill rights I think has merit. I certainly would give something else to shoot at for those so inclined.

Ris Dnalor Minmatar Union Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:35:00 - [111] Why not make it so that for a nominal fee you can war-dec an individual, rather than a corp. Consider it a -20.00 standing -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them... Tralala
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:46:00 - [112] Originally by: Ris Dnalor Why not make it so that for a nominal fee you can war-dec an individual, rather than a corp. Consider it a -20.00 standing Its called griefing... Even according to CCP's EULA it is not allowed to specifically target a person with the intent of driving him out of the game or hurting his game-play. If someone was to follow ME through multiple corps (for example, Ki An has stated they will follow people that leave a corp to avoid a dec) and I can get them to say they are specifically targeting the other corp because of me, that is petitionable. I know people that have been successful in that claim. I know people that have successfully made that claim when they drop corps because of wardecs and then get suicided by one of the previous deccing corps too. Deccing a Corp is NOT griefing because you are targeting the organization, not the individual, even though some players might think it is... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Khudo	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:56:00 - [113] Edited by: Khudo on 13/12/2007 23:00:42 Quote: No, if I leave a corporation that happens to be at war I should leave that war behind too. The war declaration was made on a group. It should stay with that group. If you had a personal issue with an individual you are free to declare war on any player corporation they my join in the future. As was said in a previous post this can and has been done before. Yeah sure, the war must not be against players. BUT it is too easy for the group to dissolve a corporation and create another one. What remains the same: the people. So targeting the people and not the corp could fix the wardec mechanics. If the group don't want to fight anymore, it is called surrender. And when you surrender, the agressor could ask you some things, like to dissolve permanently the group, or leave the region (if not, war again) or pay some isks (for example, a 6 month peace treaty). In the actual configuration, cancelling a corp is too easy, so wardecing, politics and ransoming corps is broken. You know, im a pirate. In my pseudo corp, when wardecing, we use to do 2 things. 1 Only one guy is in the corp, so all the others are stealth and have immunity until they join the gang where the warring guy is. 2 All of us have a corp with 3 wardecs on each corp. then we all gang together. That makes a bunch of targets isn't it ?
Icarus Starkiller Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:58:00 - [114] Wars are stupidly easy to dodge these days... and I'm surprised you didn't get a harassment petition slapped on you (the farmers are always in the right, after all). IMO wars should flag all members of the corp/alliance so that jumping corps won't work. The war flag should remain in place on each pilot for the duration of the war no matter where they go. So if they jump their werdecced corp and join another one... they (and they alone in that corp) are at war with the declaring corp, until the duration lapses. This will prompt people to remain with their corp and work as a team to push off the enemy. Joining a new corp and being all alone at war (new corpies cannot assist if the target is attacks a war target. If the war target attacks them first then the corpies can assist.) - Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:59:00 - [115] Originally by: Nur Vadenn Hmm, you might be right there. I too would welcome a post or page where CCP clearly spelled out the rule and policy in regards to this and many other things. Unfortunately the pages I've found so far may be out of date. Nyphur has said that my original statement was incorrect - which it very well might be. Originally by: Nur Vadenn Indeed. I don't see the events in my cited example as a failing of the war system. Clearly either the leadership was ill prepared or there was some other failure within the corporation. The war declaration only provided the pressure needed to speed the corporation's collapse. I do wonder though how many corporations finding themselves in a similar situation might have thrived given more time to mature before exposure to such a war. In EVE there is joy in accomplishing big goals - precisely because the game mechanics make it difficult. To potential for failure is one of the things I love about this game. Originally by: Nur Vadenn Debatable. I could see the effort needed to stay ahead of the original poster's war'decs as being an administrative disadvantage itself. Creating and training alts, then moving members between corporations has got to be somewhat time consuming. I know there would be things I would rather be doing with my time. I am sure whomever is running those corporations had other things in mind when they logged onto EVE before the OP started declaring war. I doubt very much that processing the applications for a bunch of new members is more than a few minutes of work. You only need two alts to create an string of corporations - limited only by the contents of your wallet. Incidentally, that leads me to a solution I think might limit the amount of corp hopping going on - only allow characters to create one corporation a month. I think that is a very reasonable restriction that does not punish normal corp members. Finally, EVE is a PVP MMO. Regardless of what you log into the game wanting to do, the other players may force you to select from a different set of choices. While that can suck at times, it plays a large part in making accomplishments meaningful.
Khudo	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:03:00 - [116] Quote: Wars are stupidly easy to dodge these days... and I'm surprised you didn't get a harassment petition slapped on you (the farmers are always in the right, after all). IMO wars should flag all members of the corp/alliance so that jumping corps won't work. The war flag should remain in place on each pilot for the duration of the war no matter where they go. So if they jump their werdecced corp and join another one... they (and they alone in that corp) are at war with the declaring corp, until the duration lapses. This will prompt people to remain with their corp and work as a team to push off the enemy. Joining a new corp and being all alone at war (new corpies cannot assist if the target is attacks a war target. If the war target attacks them first then the corpies can assist.) I like this idea too. But ... without flaming any one, i believe that the easy dodging wars is a fact. But the solution is the ccp job... err forget what i said.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:24:00 - [117] You want to make war decs meaningful? Step one, nerf the holy hell out of NPC corps. While a member of an NPC corps: - Can't fly anything bigger than a cruiser, tier 1 indy, and forget about any sort of mining ship or freighter. And you sure as hell aren't flying any CNRs. - May not run missions above level 2. - Can't use tech II anything regardless of trained skills. Ships, modules, you name it. - Can't manufacture or purchase tech II anything regardless of trained skills. - May not use contracts. - May not use jump clones. - May not train skills with a training time multiplier of 6 or higher. - May not enter 0.0 space. Ouch! Ok, now people have got some real reasons to not be in NPC corperations. But it still leaves true noobs room to grow some while learning the game. Now that players really feel a need to be in PCs, time for step two. Nerf corp hopping: - Players may only join one player corperation once per week. - If a player leaves a corperation, they may not rejoin that corperation for 10 days. What's this do? Gives leaving your player corp quite a bit more meaning. Makes corperations that have their **** together quite a bit more attractive. Sure, you can dodge that first war dec. But if there's a follow up dec on whatever corp you hop to... you're going to have to weigh that versus the restrictions of NPC corps. Adapt or do without. Good thing I'm not running the show, eh? ---- WSSH
Khudo	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:34:00 - [118] Edited by: Khudo on 13/12/2007 23:36:40 Quote: You want to make war decs meaningful? Step one, nerf the holy hell out of NPC corps. I like this idea too... But not alone. Players could split, each one in its own corp and still be in warring gangs But yeah i like the way to wardec hauleurs =) there is so much things to do about wardec dodging...
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:59:00 - [119] Edited by: Vadimik on 14/12/2007 00:00:33 Want to make wardec meaningful ? Force attackers to expose some valuable assets to counter-attack and make them pay contibution if they fail to protect the said assests, on top of premature wardec termination. Only then implement any resrictions on avoiding the said wardec. If you go as far as declare a war, there must be a way to beat you it. And since at the moment "attackers" can bail at any time without any penatly (just to resume pew-pew an hour later), it's pretty balanced that "victims" aren't compelled to anything just as well.
Khudo	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:02:00 - [120] I agree, if the attackers fail, the defenders can ask isks in order to sign a peace treaty. But exposing assets is anti liberal (mean heavy game mechs) and that don't fit with eve IMO.

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