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Author	Topic
Iwishai Wazahero XxTiggerxX Corp SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Iwishai Wazahero on 13/12/2007 09:23:43 [The Eagle] I think we can all agree that there is a small number of HaC's which have allways kind of sucked ! Well I dont think any of them suck quite as bad as the Eagle.... Which has it's only effective roll of sniping pods and frigates Current Day Eagle 6 High's // 2 Launcher // 4 Turret 5 Mid's 4 Low's Ship Bonus 10% Range Per Cruiser Level 5% Resist Per Cruiser Level 10% Optimal Per HaC Level 5% Damage Per HaC Level With Max Skills 1093.75 PG 547.5 CPU Which all looks very nice on paper, Now lets say we load up this ship with 4 250mm Railgun II/Javelin , and 2 Mag Stabs II in the low's. Now you will be pleased to know that if you actually bother to focus your char's Sp your pure gunboat charachters 10mill+ Sp in Gunnery delivers you an allmighty...... 234 DPS @ 20km Or 134 @ 146km I think I stand for most of EvE's pod pilots when I say WHAT A LOAD OF **. My proposal, Eagle Mk II 6 High's // 1 Launcher // 6 Turret 5 Mid's 4 Low's Bonus's Exactly The Same, But 'Hybrid dmg' changed to 'Railgun dmg' Powergrid + 350 CPU + 50 "6 Turrets you say ? Ridiculous!" Well no, not really. With the following changes a 6 250mm II'd Eagle will deliver the following damage. Using Spike : 224.4 @ 146km Using Jav : 391 @ 20km If anyone believes thats overpowered i'd love to hear why ? Iwishai LaidaiAhero**
Vaal Erit	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:45:00 - [2] Nice, and the Muninn will also get + 2 turrets and tons more PG/CPU to fit them too, right? With the way eve mechanics work, a mid-ranged cruise sniper isn't really of much help, I would like the Eagle + Muninn to be scraped and totally redesigned tbh. I know the 3 people who actually pvp in eagles and muninns will be upset, but it's the right thing to do.
NoNah	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:11:00 - [3] First off, I'd like you to account for those 10 mil Gunnery Skillpoints you speak of... ;) Biggest reason I can think of right now, not to go with your suggestions is the massive amount of whine all the beagles will cause. Postcount: 444220
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Empire Research	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:15:00 - [4] I'd say it should be: 5 High Slots: 5 Turret Hard points; 2 Launcher Hard points. 6 Medium Slots 4 Low Slots See what I did there? I think this way it doesn't make it over powered, but does allow it to be a bit more useful. _____________________________ Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co. Part of the Empire Research Alliance Look us up in Nomaa or Itamo to join!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Goumindong on 13/12/2007 11:13:12 Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero If anyone believes thats overpowered i'd love to hear why ? It does more damage than a Zealot and Muninn at 180km than they do at 100km? **, it already right now, as in on tq, you can get into it right now and do this**, outdamages the Zealot and nearly the Muninn at their optimal ranges for anti-support work. The eagle is fine, it doesnt need changes, unless those changes make no changes to the ships ability as a long range damage dealer, but increase its ability as a short range tackler. The eagle is a fine HAC, it is not nearly close to the mantle of "the worst HAC" edit: simply because you do not do the type of combat where eagles excell does not mean that they do not excell in combat.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 13/12/2007 11:13:12 Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero If anyone believes thats overpowered i'd love to hear why ? It does more damage than a Zealot and Muninn at 180km than they do at 100km? **, it already right now, as in on tq, you can get into it right now and do this, outdamages the Zealot and nearly the Muninn at their optimal ranges for anti-support work. The eagle is fine, it doesnt need changes, unless those changes make no changes to the ships ability as a long range damage dealer, but increase its ability as a short range tackler. The eagle is a fine HAC, it is not nearly close to the mantle of "the worst HAC" edit: simply because you do not do the type of combat where eagles excell does not mean that they do not excell in combat. I was soooooo waiting for this when I first saw the thread :-))) Originally by:** Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Sharkk	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:22:00 - [7] Alls i know is, im a caldari spec'd player with the majority of my skill points in hybrids and i will probibly never fly this ship....hell i may give it a go if ive got 100mil iskies sitting around i dont really need i think i may be able to fart more dps than 4 250mm rails
Kykio Caldari Megadodo Publications The Sphere Confederation	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Hugh Ruka I was soooooo waiting for this when I first saw the thread :-))) Me too , i wish Goumindong would be banned for a month or more from forum . After Trinity Eagle still cant do dmg and now cant trackle frigates and pods, so it is the worts useless HAC in the game. But he think it is fine because I can shoot at something from 200km and do laughable damage. Btw have you ever flown an eagle Goumindong?? I did and it was only good to shoot at small ships at a gate camp ,but now it wont have the tracking and sensors resolution to do that ,so in my opinion this ship is useless. Eagle needs a boost!!!
Dryxonedes Sae Aussie Eve Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:34:00 - [9] The eagle is top of it's class for it's purpose. Removing enemy tacklers/pods from ridiculous ranges is priceless, and this HAC does it with ease. 200'ish dps is more than ample for killing it's intended targets. One of the most entertaining moments I've had was in an Eagle, with a mate in a Muninn, when we waxed an Enyo at 105k's, 2 volleys from the eagle, 1 from the muninn. Sure, looking at the log we got some sweet hits on it, but that's gold any way you paint it. As for a slot change, I could agree it could use some help. Though the only way i'd be content with seeing it go is 5 turret, and drop a high for a mid. Give it the ability to more comfortably push long range without being quite so T1 frig vulnerable (i.e. extra mid for a little more tank if you desire to fit it). As for skills piloting the buggers, I sport HAC5, medium hybrids capped, they do their job just fine, the problem lies with the ****s flying them that want to compete with deimos'. Where's the problem? It's called natural selection - The bottom of the **ing food chain. -Denis Leary
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Kykio Originally by: Hugh Ruka I was soooooo waiting for this when I first saw the thread :-))) Me too , i wish Goumindong would be banned for a month or more from forum . After Trinity Eagle still cant do dmg and now cant trackle frigates and pods, so it is the worts useless HAC in the game. But he think it is fine because I can shoot at something from 200km and do laughable damage. Btw have you ever flown an eagle Goumindong?? I did and it was only good to shoot at small ships at a gate camp ,but now it wont have the tracking and sensors resolution to do that ,so in my opinion this ship is useless. Eagle needs a boost!!! Maybe you should join an alliance that does large scale warfare instead of whining that ships great at large scale warfare arent great at small scale warfare? Its tracking and sensor resolution is fine for its job. Not as good as it was pre-trinity, but still plenty well enough.

Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:44:00 - [11] Ok - I only needed to read the first few lines, and already can tell you know nothing of the eagle. Yes, its description says its a sniper etc. Same as a scorp says its the newest caldari BS - Yet its 5 years old, and after the rokh. Descriptions mean nothing. What its great as, is a blasterboat. Has tank and speed > than a deimos. Therefore, its lack of damage is a balance in many ways. As for the dps - Yeah rails suck mate....But that setup sucks even more. I get i believe 460-500 dps with neutrons, void, and a few mag stabs. Im getting really fed up with people whining now. EVen about things they dont even have a clue about. HECK i fly it, and well - lets just say HA!
Dryxonedes Sae Aussie Eve Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:58:00 - [12] Can agree with waxau to a fair point... It's potential dps isn't quite deimos'esque (yes i do fly both...) if you want to fit tackle aswell, but that said it can tank substantially while there, so I suppose you win some you lose some.... Different horses for different courses. ** Where's the problem? It's called natural selection - The bottom of the **ing food chain. -Denis Leary
Gmoorick R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:23:00 - [13] So you want it to have Using Spike : 224.4 @ 146km Using Jav : 391 @ 20km 250 dps is what battle ship have on 150km. 390 dps is vaga. Ain't it a bit overpowered ? ;) Eagle is the best anti tackler hac for fleets. If you want dps, use deimos.
Shereza	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:00:00 - [14] The only problem I can see with giving the eagle two more turret slots is that it'll do more damage at equal ranges than the vulture. Of course the ishtar can easily do more DPS at comparable ranges to the eos so I guess heavy assault ships doing more DPS than fleet command ships isn't out of the question. Mind you I don't know how damnations and claymores stack up compared to their racial heavy assault counterparts but if this is a common theme then perhaps the eagle should be looked at to be upgraded to do more DPS given similar builds than the vulture. As for making the hybrid damage railgun only I don't see what this would accomplish short of shoving a stick up the craw of blaster users. You aren't even suggesting doubling the bonus or anything to mitigate cutting the guns it covers in half. I see no reason whatsoever to make it railgun-only, just like I see no reason to make gallente bonuses blaster-only.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:07:00 - [15] Sorry about my rather basic reply earlier. The reason i have to disagree with your post is two fold. 1. Personal preference. and 2. Overall balance. Your proposed balance will make the eagle rocket in price, thus increasing the caldari FOTM, and therefore the whines, which in the long run means a nerf obviously. Ontop of this, the current eagle pilots dont have any other way to spend their SP, other than an eagle. Cerb is the only other option, and that has zero turrets. So thus, with the eagle being changed, theres no escape route with their specialisation. Not only that, but there is a rather popular request, being that the Moa, and Ferox hull both get +1 turret. This would then increase the eagles dps enough to make us happy, and by such a little amount realistically, to make the rest of the community not feel worried about it. However, with the changes you've proposed, you've just blown the entire ship we know currently out of the water, with no real reason. Its like saying you want the megathron to be focused on shield tanking, with missiles. Why? No purpose. As the saying goes - If its not broken, dont fix it. (This means you too CCP... )
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:29:00 - [16] First of all the Eagle fires at much higher optimal then your crappy 146 km. If I would fit it like my comrades do, I get 140 DPS @ 170km Optimal. Don't try to tank it more then with a LSE II hint Zealot gets maximum 100km Optimal with around 200 DPS Muninn gets maximum 80km Optima with around 220 DPS When you lower the Range on the Eagle to that you'll get the same DPS then the others. So why we exactly have to change it? . Work in progress: EvE FlashMAP
Neuromandis	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:44:00 - [17] The suggestion is unbalancing. That said, the eagle is in more need of a boost than before, because it excelled at pod/inty/frig sniping before trinity... But now without the targeting resolution of benefit of the sensor boosters, well even that job got difficult. I'd say +1 turret plus a few drones, but I am now open to suggestions... At least beagle is as good as ever... --- If someone else from my Corporation or Alliance agrees with me, he will say so. Assume nobody does :) --- WTB: Scorpion wing (left)
Grif Oberwald	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:50:00 - [18] What the Eagle needs is for HAC's I a subsequent patch to follow the T2 battleship layout, but with say only 3 turret/launcher hard points with 100% bonus to them. AF's could then have 2 turret hard points with 100% bonus to them..... For consistency of course.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.12.13 18:32:00 - [19] I would just ask how the hell u got 224dps with rails on 146km???? All my calculation gives around 150dps on 150km with 4 t2 damage mods. i can get over 200 if i fit 2 launchers, but this are not such a good range.... so how?
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.13 18:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Grytok First of all the Eagle fires at much higher optimal then your crappy 146 km. If I would fit it like my comrades do, I get 140 DPS @ 170km Optimal. Don't try to tank it more then with a LSE II hint Zealot gets maximum 100km Optimal with around 200 DPS Muninn gets maximum 80km Optima with around 220 DPS When you lower the Range on the Eagle to that you'll get the same DPS then the others. So why we exactly have to change it? Don't put a freaking LSE extender on it - you should be aligned, 100km+ from the action and ready to warp out if needed. With the script nerf, both the muninn and eagle need every mid slot they can get (outside of mwd) for TC/SB.

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