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LadyShu
Federation of Synthetic Persons STYX.
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Posted - 2007.12.14 23:17:00 -
[1]
I skilled towards blackops right after they were announced by ccp (also cloak 5 as it was a rumour that it would be required for Black Ops *sigh*)
The role of this ship for clandestine operations behind enemy lines sounded perfect to me and my playstyle.
I jumped into a panther when they were available on sisi and tried some fittings and tested the ship in general especially the jump drive stuff, i made suggestions in the gamedev forum and discussed with other possible blackop pilots, and in my opinion ccp failed again with a ship for a given role.
Tons of testers mentioned that the jumpdrive fueluse is a joke... nothing happened.
I got a pretty expensive panther on sisi today and really nothing changed :(
- 4 ly jumprange may be enough on the paper... it should be enough to bypass some gatecamps etc, but the system layout of the most systems doesnt allow big jumps, and if so it needs like what? 800+ isotopes?! if you have enough fuel with you for 2 4ly jumps you cant carry much capboosters and very little ammo.
- The Jumpbridge is a joke... you cant jump many recons, even if everyone brings in there own fuel, the jumpbridge only holds a few seconds and you really need to work with cans.
- The Slot and Grid...
Well you have 8 high slots. I tried (at least on the panther) 800er artillerys, 650er etc. doesnt really happen which ACs you fit (dont even think about fitting 1400ers artis...) you get troubles with at least 2 highslots... you need 5 guns, 1 cloak, 1x bridge generator.. impossible if you want a decent tank (if not fitted for speed)...
This ship (panther) actually is a limited phoon which can move when cloaked, thats it. And since you cant warp cloaked everyone sees you coming.
I dont demand a solo pwn mobil (the dps isnt high enough on this ship for this either...) but for the price of this ship, the very high skill requirements (i guess you can easy go for caps after this ^^) and the limited use its just a waste of isk.
My suggestions would be:
- more cargospace (more fuel?)
or
- possibility of warp cloaked (make cov op cloak available to black ops its atm a bs sized recon after all...)
or
- let them jump 8ly instead 4ly, then people could live with the limitations.
I cant see a future for Black Ops if the stay like they are :/ The idea was pretty good and the solo combat functionality is great in blackops, but it really lacks some bonuses for its intended role.
sorry for my poor english ... EveTUBE.COM - Your bandwidth will be owned sir. |
Mrsticks
Minmatar RNCGM Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:11:00 -
[2]
This is why in a Different post I Requested to allow Blockade runners the Ability to jump With Covert ops. Whis would give you the Ability to carry Fuel and ammo for the team, And if you have a Brasent pilot Could Contribute a little to Combat with its Gun/Missle(Minmatar)
CCP - The Industrial players would like to play and be Usefull to NAMIT!1!!!
Long Live TEXAS! Texans join the Texas channel in game plz.
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achoura
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:47:00 -
[3]
Well they stated the jump capabilities are supposed to be a "massive resource drain" a while back.
Total would probably have been a better choice of word and currently (i could be wrong) the general effort is in fixing up bug and glitches > holiday drinking > "wtf is black ops?" ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 15/12/2007 01:10:30
I'm going to give CCP the benefit of the doubt and assume that these ships entered the game pre-nerfed. However, seeing how fairly useless they are right now... combined with the fact that they show up in local (see this thread)... makes them a major disappointment.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Eka Maladay
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Posted - 2007.12.17 07:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mrsticks This is why in a Different post I Requested to allow Blockade runners the Ability to jump With Covert ops. Whis would give you the Ability to carry Fuel and ammo for the team, And if you have a Brasent pilot Could Contribute a little to Combat with its Gun/Missle(Minmatar)
CCP - The Industrial players would like to play and be Usefull to NAMIT!1!!!
I like this idea.
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Kel Zon
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Posted - 2007.12.17 09:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kel Zon on 17/12/2007 09:33:15 Edited by: Kel Zon on 17/12/2007 09:32:42 Not sure why they thought everyone would jump for joy to spend 1-3 months training to fly a Battleship with BC stats.
Right now they gave us a Combat Recon (no CoC) with Force Recon stats. Thier offence bonuses make it seem like CCP expected people to put them in front line combat. Only the super rich or crazy would currently take on anything more dangerous than a couple T2 Cruisers in these things.
If you really want to make them sneaky and fulfull the role YOU gave them they NEED Covert Ops Cloak.
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Waccamaw
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Waccamaw on 17/12/2007 10:04:32 Look at the sails in Jita:
panther: sold 1 on market: 20 (sucks most and I have a panther for sale) redeemer sold 5 on market: 15 (sucks too) sin: sold 7 on market: 23 (ok, but poor stats for a new ship, which is supposed to be wanted by many ppl) widow: sold 12 on market 23 (ok, could be better)
This is causing many inventors and producers a lot of stress and unhappness. There will be no mery X-mas for them right now in Eve. With the given skill requirements not everybody could test these ships. So we had to trust in CCPs ability to create a good ship. Hearing now again, blackops suck and seeing prices on the market, which undercut the cost of ivnetion and production, makes me unhappy.
Any idea is welcome. The idea with the blockade runenr sounds good.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:11:00 -
[8]
How to fix BlackOps: allow them to use COC2s and remove all locking penalties and scan res penalties from using the cloak. Problem solved.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus How to fix BlackOps: allow them to use COC2s and remove all locking penalties and scan res penalties from using the cloak. Problem solved.
No, allow the use of CoC 2's, but the locking delay penalty should stay... Would be a tad too much if it did. The speed while cloaked bonus should then change to reduction to locking delay after decloaking that goes to 100%(?), 50%(?) - I'll let the devs ballance that- at lvl5. There's no scanres penalty on CoC2's. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.17 11:04:00 -
[10]
5 guns.... check
less hp... check
ok what is the point of these? if a typhoon can kill one what is the point.
Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.17 12:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MotherMoon 5 guns.... check
less hp... check
ok what is the point of these? if a typhoon can kill one what is the point.
The redeemer looks sexy, which is probably the only reason I'll be getting one.
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.17 12:15:00 -
[12]
How bad whould it be to just give them the cov ops cloak? I see no reason why this would bring fourth balance issues.
Cov ops frigate: scout Cov ops crusier: ewar, support Cov ops battleship: dps bringer
Right now they are gloryfied stealth bombers.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Will Stronghold
Firing Squad
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:08:00 -
[13]
Stealth Bomber is currently deadlier then the Black-Ops. SB has really small signature, moves many times faster and gets major damage bonuses. Also costs like 100 times less :)
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2007.12.17 16:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dristra How bad whould it be to just give them the cov ops cloak? I see no reason why this would bring fourth balance issues.
Cov ops frigate: scout Cov ops crusier: ewar, support Cov ops battleship: dps bringer
Right now they are gloryfied stealth bombers.
I agree - why the Black Ops comes pre-nerfed and cant warp while cloaked is astounding: its really not worth its massive price tag, or the intensive skill training required. A great idea, just poorly implemented.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Relyen
Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cailais I agree - why the Black Ops comes pre-nerfed and cant warp while cloaked is astounding: its really not worth its massive price tag, or the intensive skill training required. A great idea, just poorly implemented.[/quote
Technically pre-nerfed is a good thing. Cause everyone is happy when they get buffed. But if they come overpowered and get post-nerfed, everyone throws a fit :P
So, I have no doubt in time they'll buff it some :)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Waccamaw Edited by: Waccamaw on 17/12/2007 10:14:47
Look at the sails in Jita:
panther: sold 1 on market: 20 redeemer sold 5 on market: 15 sin: sold 7 on market: 23 widow: sold 12 on market 23
This is causing many inventors and producers a lot of stress and unhappness. With the given skill requirements not everybody could test these ships. So we had to trust in CCPs ability to create a good and wanted ship. Hearing now again, blackops suck and seeing prices on the market, which undercut the cost of invention and production, makes me unhappy.
Any idea is welcome. The idea with the blockade runenr sounds good. Better stats for these ships are also welcome. Come on, they cost a lot of iskis!
The argument: buff the ships as I have done a bad investment and I am losing isk building them is a bit weak.
A lot of people has joined the BS invention bandwagons thinking they would be the first to build one and sell with to a huge overhead. The net result is that the market is oversaturated from day one, while the prospective buyers are still training for the ships.
So the sellers don't sell and the prices are in vertical fall.
Why I should buy a ship that some day ago was at 2 billions and today I have seen sold at 650 millions when I don't have jet the skills.
Maybe I will buy one of the T2 BS when they reach 500 millions or if the price start to climb.
About the OP post and subsequents: I really hope that CCP will wait at least some month before changing the T2 BS. They are too recent and we still have to see the full potential of those ships. If in 2-3 months they are still consideredd too weak it will be the time to see what to change, not before.
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Muskogee
Caldari nicomedes inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.17 18:56:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Muskogee on 17/12/2007 18:56:30
@ Venkul Mul
You missed the whole point. Do you really think CCP created a new ship to have only 1 in case of the Panthers sold? These ships are no titans, just t2 BS. They should be more mass compatible. Many Carrier pilots should be very close to fly a black ops. They simply do not want these ships, because they have currently no use for them. The prices are already a desaster for most producers. For example:
Somebody, who invented with a 1,8 decryptor has a ME -4 BPC and built costs of appr. 650 mil. (at current jita prices) for a panther.
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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.12.18 10:14:00 -
[18]
To the OP:
How on earth did you find Black Ops Ships 'good on paper'?? The only good thing about them (and I mean whole class) is 4 med slot Geddon, THATS IT!!
They are designed so badly that my eyes want to bleed, no strong points, no uses or roles (if you call jumpin 3-4 recons to next system a role then you are a ******), no NOTHING... FAILURE ALL THE WAY.
Sad thing about it is that, CCP doesn't like being told what to do and is even more unhappy about admitting a mistake (remember how 'ECM' wasn't overpowered and 'being looked at' for about a 1.5 year but on the other hand was banned from Alliance Tournament that took place during that time?). Thats why if you are counting on some fast change for Black Ops, you are going to be really disappointed. ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.18 11:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Khan Soriano To the OP:
How on earth did you find Black Ops Ships 'good on paper'?? The only good thing about them (and I mean whole class) is 4 med slot Geddon, THATS IT!!
They are designed so badly that my eyes want to bleed, no strong points, no uses or roles (if you call jumpin 3-4 recons to next system a role then you are a ******), no NOTHING... FAILURE ALL THE WAY.
Sad thing about it is that, CCP doesn't like being told what to do and is even more unhappy about admitting a mistake (remember how 'ECM' wasn't overpowered and 'being looked at' for about a 1.5 year but on the other hand was banned from Alliance Tournament that took place during that time?). Thats why if you are counting on some fast change for Black Ops, you are going to be really disappointed.
Actually some clueless people say "omghax @ black ops, can jump SB's into enemy fleet and pop frigs!!111, Stealth bombers a goooood!" and I just sort of want to die when I read it.
And the people that say ccp will buff it: you are wrong, ccp is like the snail of buffing, but a real hawk at nerfing, afraid they will be forgotten as some legacy of trinity.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Amarr Holymight
deii feram Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.18 11:42:00 -
[20]
A cov-ops ship that doesn't have cov-ops abilities seems like a major fail. I like the blockade runner idea.
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.18 11:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight A cov-ops ship that doesn't have cov-ops abilities seems like a major fail. I like the blockade runner idea.
Sure, cram any feature into the black ops, anything to make it viable, the redeemer looks sexy and I need a reason to train for it, currently its just meh, and I really don't want to dedicate my training to something that gives that little bang for the buck.
Cov ops cloak would save it really, cov ops cloak with no calibration time would be beyond the sex though :P
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Little Wabbit
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Posted - 2007.12.18 19:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Little Wabbit on 18/12/2007 19:31:29 how about changing the bonus of the ships: instead of bonuses to large projectile weapons give em a bonus to medium ones would fix all the problems (well, exept for the jumprange)
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SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr Deathwatch Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.18 22:29:00 -
[23]
well from what i've read, i think i have found several possible fixes to the Black Ops, Reguarding the Jump Drives, Covert Cloaking devices (how we could possibly get them fitted/allowed), and the cargo.
All can be found here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=663604&page=1
Reguards
SoulOfAnnihilation D3ATHWATCH INC. American Timezone PvP Director
"åill D3ATH Do Us Parå" |
Hami Sa
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Posted - 2007.12.18 23:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Little Wabbit Edited by: Little Wabbit on 18/12/2007 19:31:29 how about changing the bonus of the ships: instead of bonuses to large projectile weapons give em a bonus to medium ones would fix all the problems (well, exept for the jumprange)
...
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Brother Welcome
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: LadyShu I skilled towards blackops right after they were announced by ccp (also cloak 5 as it was a rumour that it would be required for Black Ops *sigh*)
The role of this ship for clandestine operations behind enemy lines sounded perfect to me and my playstyle.
Like many of the suggestions in this thread, but I think we need to be clear on purpose.
The purpose of black ops is to cause trouble behind the lines. They need to be fighting ships.
They additionally have the job of making a hole. Helping other ships in to do other things.
What black ops are not about is recon. They are elite heavy strikers and wall breachers, not scouting units.
For that reason I sign to longer jump range, lower fuel costs, and covert ops cloak use.
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Shamsah Malik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.06 20:38:00 -
[26]
Or give them the ability to jumpbridge any ship that has a hull size of Frigate, Destroyer, or Cruiser. That would make them worth the price tag.
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Julius Romanus
Blood Corsair's Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.06 20:42:00 -
[27]
It doesnt help that at least the blackops i've looked at seem very cpu limited, making it very hard to even fit an improved cloak :\
Add to that the lack of range, inability to jump an appropriate number of recon's, and you've got a class that seems pointless to train towards. 4 mids geddon is sweet and all, but a 4mid geddon that needs all faction gear to even think of fitting a decent cloak doesnt work for me.
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Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2008.02.06 21:59:00 -
[28]
None of the Covert OPÆs ships or any ship for that matter have even close to 10000tf CPU to natively use the Covert OPÆs Cloak. CCP just gives a ôRole Bonusö of 96% to 100% reduction in Covert OPÆs Cloak CPU usage per skill level in order to be able to use them.
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.07 04:35:00 -
[29]
Blackops need a special cargo bay added to them that can only be loaded with fuel. This would go a long way to solving the issues with the jump portal generator and jump fuel amounts.
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Kil'Roy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.07 06:18:00 -
[30]
I don't know about you, but I don't set my CovOps up with a tank...
I don't set my Recon up with a tank...
Why would you set up a Black Ops up with a tank..? I don't, and can fit for some nice dps.
Some say that it has stats like a BC, yes it does. And with the right fitting, it will fly like one, with BS damage.
You may laugh, but I say don't blame CCP if you can't think outside the box.
This was never meant to be ship for the masses. It needs some tweaking, but if CCP isn't careful, it would be the ultimate gank machine, and I think they know it.
That's my .25 isk.
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