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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
61
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Posted - 2012.02.05 16:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
myFORUMalt alts wrote:[quote=Linda Shadowborn]ahh the old 21 years.
women dont play eve, its all a lie
yes of course.. how silly of me *eyerolls* |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.02.05 16:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Linda Shadowborn wrote:ahh the old 21 years.
First off, there is NO need to ever train all skills. EVER. A titan pilot doesnt need maxed out industry/science skills. Most science characters for instance (since that is what this toon does) have little need for advanced ship skills. Fly the orca/charon.. check.. ok thats about it for my ship skills really (what i can fly a lot more well.. yes because i have the science skills i need now).
Most of us who start getting up in skill points look and go "ok i dont have a lot more to train) and many stop training to skill up another alt instead on that account for more flexibility.
You can do a lot with low skillpoints, IF you stop looking at it like: i must have xxx before i can have fun. Heck grab a t1 fitted rifter.. go pew pew.. Its that simple. can do it within what.. 2 weeks easily? Sure some things take longer.. you cant just get into invention within 2 weeks.. BUT those things usually requier a TON of more ISK that a normal 2 week char has available. And if you REALLY are impatient, get some plexes, convert to isk, buy a frikkin character on the bazzar. Done.
Your idea is HORRIBLE!!!! i for one play this game.. well not only but one large reason is: i dont have to grind! I HATE grinding. I am married, with my own business. I dont have time to grind like i did in wow when i was in my 20s and hadnt met the most wonderful man in the world to marry.
See, you're all worked up and my idea is HORRIBLE because it doesn't mimic yours. You donGÇÖt have a lot of time to play or grind and you take advantage of the passive system which is in place, good for you, obviously a change would not benefit your play style.
Not all of us are 21 year old WOW players; IGÇÖm actually an older player that runs the IT function for a pharmaceutical company. So, yes, the passive play style does benefit me as well as I donGÇÖt always have free time to play. My suggestion was to also motivate people that are playing actively. As your own suggestion, anyone can buy PLEX if they are gainfully employed, so whatGÇÖs the need to grind missions for ISK if you can just buy it? I personally donGÇÖt like the idea of purchasing someone elseGÇÖs account or character as you also get their reputation along with their skill points.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
561
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Posted - 2012.02.05 19:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
If you want to gain exp or whatever you call it go play WoW. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
192
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Posted - 2012.02.05 20:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Biomass yourself. |
Dranchela
Flashpoint Industries The ROC
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 20:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play.
No. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
316
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Posted - 2012.02.05 20:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:In the real world, the more you practice the better you get at something but it seems eve rewards you for doing nothing except buying and training skills.
I know, everyone that's been playing for 2 plus years don't like this idea because they have so much time (skill training not real experience) invested in eve.
Here's the problem. EVE is designed around the idea that SP is acquired in a very specific way: by training. The unique selling point of EVE contra other MMOs is that players who grind cannot "get ahead" SP-wise (though they can certainly do themselves favors with regards to ISK). This is linked to the fact that the various activities in the game have a very low barrier to entry: you don't have to have 100mil SP just to do them and in most cases you need far less SP to even perfect said activity (see dramatically diminishing returns and level 5 skill cap).
Having said that, to be any good in a practical way at said activity, you have to actually get out and do it. In fact, an experienced player can perform better than one without experience even with less skill points.
The issues with linking skills to activities is that it immediately makes said activity more valuable than anything else -- and it ends up benefiting old players more than new ones. Link SP to missions? A 100mil SP character can blitz L4s, widening the gap with lower skilled players. On top of that, there is suddenly extensive pressure to do nothing else in order to "keep up". Link SP to pod kills? Constantly pod an alt. Link SP to industry jobs? Bot it, wreaking havoc with mineral prices for legitimate activities.
And before another common trope gets rolled out, no, I probably wouldn't be one of the people "abusing" the new system. But it doesn't matter, because the advantage of the current system is that there is no incentive to abuse it. As soon as you introduce such incentive, abuse will happen.
Rat Farmer wrote:Everyone that doesn't like constructive criticism says to go play wow, well, at least the wow people are earning their levels, not logging on once every 21 days to train a new skill. but the wow people are considered the care bears, go figure.
You know, there have been times when I did only log on to change skills. I had my reasons. Life was too busy, I was out of the country, etc. But why did I keep some connection to EVE? Because I could continue to hold on to at least that one thread. Otherwise I probably would have dropped in and out of the game several times. And that's why I like the system as is. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
119
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Posted - 2012.02.05 20:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
You gain experience in this game by playing, you just don't get to see it on the character sheet as some sort of point scoring system. :) Why are my neocom icons so tiny? Oh, you can widen and narrow the bar. Cool.-á |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2012.02.05 20:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:You gain experience in this game by playing, you just don't get to see it on the character sheet as some sort of point scoring system. :)
Bingo. The real skills are learnt from playing and learning game mechanics and strategies. You're so hung up on skill points because you haven't played the game long enough and/or you are carebearing muppets with no drive or imagination.
I, for one, hope to be playing Eve in 10 years time. Many of us are in it for the long term. Easy skill points will destroy the longevity of Eve. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2012.02.05 20:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:
...well, at least the wow people are earning their levels...
Lul. |
Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.02.06 00:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lemok Sonji wrote: CCP doesn't want EvE to be a grind game like wow (or any other RPG game), where you grind long enough, you get better gear, and you are now "better" and things.
EvE is about skill of the player and the community around him, not of his character.
I just loled hard at this one.
Then tell me why when I log in WoW I can just play BGs/arenas for several hours/day without much need of grind, while in EVE I work either for shiny pve ship or pvp "replacement" ones. EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind.
So stop talking this nonsense please.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
317
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Posted - 2012.02.06 00:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're either choosing to grind in EVE or you're doing it wrong, and honestly without more information it's impossible to tell which. |
R0Y4L
Scifried Strategic Military Industries
4
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Posted - 2012.02.06 00:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
yeah if you want SP for continuing to do the same thing over and over and over and over again go back to WOW IF-á YOU-á-á DONT-á WANNA-á DIE-á DONT-á FLY-á-á |
Msgerbs
Imperial Assualt Guild
3
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Posted - 2012.02.06 02:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Doing missions is not the goal of EVE. Doing missions is income. What you DO with that income is the goal of EVE. Missions are a means to an end, nothing more. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1374
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Posted - 2012.02.06 02:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:For the record, I like eve but I'm also confused with the whole skill point thing.
It is pretty daunting as a new person realizing that I pretty much have some skills to train before I can become effective at pvp, pve, industry or trading. I admit that the skill gain mechanic is cool in the way of being able to train offline but what's the motivation to play? If I'm a low skill point toon I'm not really effective at anything. It would be nice to gain skills based on what you do when you're in the eve universe. In the real world, the more you practice the better you get at something but it seems eve rewards you for doing nothing except buying and training skills.
I know, everyone that's been playing for 2 plus years don't like this idea because they have so much time (skill training not real experience) invested in eve.
Everyone that doesn't like constructive criticism says to go play wow, well, at least the wow people are earning their levels, not logging on once every 21 days to train a new skill. but the wow people are considered the care bears, go figure.
Takes less than a day to train the skills to be an effective member of a small PvP gang; less than a week to be an effective solo pilot. Maybe 3-5 months to max out your frigate of choice, as in perfect everything that affects that ship. If you want to be really good with bigger ships, of course that takes more time, but after a point (this comes very quickly for most), more SP just means a greater variety of ships you fly well and more expensive poddings.
The WoW players may be earning their levels, but they lose nothing if they die. In EvE you always lose the ship you're flying, usually lose the module drop, and sometimes lose your pod with the implants you wear. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tiger Armani
Mialto Corp The Last Chancers.
8
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Posted - 2012.02.06 09:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
You need more experience for keyboard management, propably level 5 with CAPS LOCK management. |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.02.06 10:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Well. This is a horrible idea and will never happen, thankfully.
Goonswarm has a one week training plan for ganking high sec miners. 1 week. And you don't even need to leave high sec.
Remap, train cybernetics V, grind your level 4 missions and buy some +5s. See what difference that makes. |
Ryoko Matsu
Community against Justice ROMANIAN-LEGION
1
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Posted - 2012.02.06 13:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote: blabla...
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP . . .
You are already getting skillpoints "from" a mission!
...it depends on how long the mission takes you, and what your sp/hour are...
simple as that...
example: 30min lvl4 mission, skill training @ 2000sp/h = 1000sp from a mission *\o/*
but now the best thing is...
...you get the sp-¦s also from watching tv... |
Brynhilda
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
81
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Posted - 2012.02.06 14:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
This would completely break the whole character selling market as anyone could just buy an account, put a bot in it, have them run missions endlessly, put the SP into Titans and sell them for billions of isk.
There are many more ways to make isk rather than running missions and mining. If that's the only way you can make isk, this isn't the game for you. How may I drug you with drugs? |
Bent Barrel
22
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Posted - 2012.02.06 14:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
NO
reasons were already stated by other folks before me ... |
Spineker
147
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Posted - 2012.02.06 17:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
OP you can't recommend anything on these forums with the fools that post here. I don't actually want experience but I don't see the need for all the trolls to come out of their doodoo bird shells and pretend Eve can not be improved. Just because it has been broke for 9 years doesn't mean it should remain broke.
Missions need to be completely revamped into a modern style of game play but then the doodoo birds which are Null sec Epeens living in thier moms basement will cry a river of tears. |
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Spineker
147
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Posted - 2012.02.06 17:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Msgerbs wrote:Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Doing missions is not the goal of EVE. Doing missions is income. What you DO with that income is the goal of EVE. Missions are a means to an end, nothing more.
Totally absolutely and completely incorrect. It is this attitude that keeps this game broken in many ways. |
Lemok Sonji
Little Miss Duck
48
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Posted - 2012.02.06 17:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:Lemok Sonji wrote: CCP doesn't want EvE to be a grind game like wow (or any other RPG game), where you grind long enough, you get better gear, and you are now "better" and things.
EvE is about skill of the player and the community around him, not of his character.
I just loled hard at this one. Then tell me why when I log in WoW I can just play BGs/arenas for several hours/day without much need of grind, while in EVE I work either for shiny pve ship or pvp "replacement" ones. EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind. So stop talking this nonsense please.
If you are grinding ISK for hours to pay for a new ship, you are playing the game like its wow. Which means, you are missing the whole point of the game.
In a few hours you can get enough ISK to buy a new shiny ship. Much less time that it takes you to grind arena points in wow every night for several hours to get your shiny new epic weapon.
Marketing play, PvP, plexing, WHs, industry, incursions, they are all paying a huge sum of ISK if you are doing it right. If you are resorting to RMT/sell GTCs to get a new ship, better go back play arenas it wow.
The whole point of wow is the pursuit for the next epic, next upgrade. EvE is about everything else.
Besides, this is off-topc, as the topic is about SP for missioning / doing other things, which is silly. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
323
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Posted - 2012.02.06 18:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Spineker wrote:OP you can't recommend anything on these forums with the fools that post here. I don't actually want experience but I don't see the need for all the trolls to come out of their doodoo bird shells and pretend Eve can not be improved. Just because it has been broke for 9 years doesn't mean it should remain broke.
Hey now. I'm all for change. Change is good. Particularly when it's directed in a way that improves the game. My specific critiques in this thread relate to the fact that the specific change suggested in the thread -- introducing SP rewards for missions -- would have a detrimental effect on the game as a whole. The reasons for this are numerous, but are mostly based in the idea that we don't want to encourage an arms race based on a single specific in-game activity, in this case mission running.
Spineker wrote:Missions need to be completely revamped into a modern style of game play
Of course it does. But I'm a bit unclear as to how that relates to the rest of the thread . |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.02.06 18:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
I still think it's funny how many people say to go back to WOW or (name random mmo here) because EVE is hardcore and blah, blah, blah.
As I stated earlier, I actually like EVE, I just think that the passive skill point grind is crazy and there will never be a level playing field per se. I paid for 6 months, so IGÇÖll see how I feel when itGÇÖs time for me to re-subscribe, until then IGÇÖll post my thoughts as I feel inclined. So, no, I wonGÇÖt go biomass myself, I wonGÇÖt give you stuff, I wonGÇÖt go hang myself in the closet next to your mother and I wonGÇÖt shut up or play another gameGǪ
That saidGǪ I personally know 5 people that wonGÇÖt even try EVE because they say that they will always be so far behind everyone else in EVE when it comes to skill training. Yes, you can be somewhat productive in 3 weeks; I have but I donGÇÖt think that IGÇÖm anywhere near ready to PVP against another active pilot (IGÇÖm not talking about a miner or hauler) even if they are in a frigate as well if theyGÇÖve been playing a couple of more months or years then me.
The game is what it is, is CCP going to change? Probably not. Does that mean that people are not subscribing because they donGÇÖt like the passive training? Definitely! |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.02.06 18:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
Also, if anyone knows anything about business, a new hire is one of your greatest assets. A new person sees things that most long term employees perceive as the norm or have fallen into a routine and just do their tasks like mindless robots. IGÇÖm not saying that every new employee has great ideas, but every so often the company is presented with something that can change their entire business model. On the flip side to that, if you present most long term employees with a change, they shun it as they are afraid of the unknown.
Now apply this to EVE. The new player has a fresh perspective on what they see or how they interact in EVE. When a new player sees things and poses questions on a public forum you sometimes get rubbish and sometimes get little gems. Not everything is a great idea, but not everything is worthless. Some of the old players need to take a step back and broaden their horizons to what can be change whether itGÇÖs construed as good or badGǪ
Anyway, I'm done with this thread. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
2
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Posted - 2012.02.06 19:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
I wish people would respond intelligently to ideas they don't agree with. Some did, and I will continue to read anything they post, because it's actually worth reading. I belive a lot of people are missing the whole point of this thread. It's NOT to destroy their epeens, and come close to their elite 100m SP club... it was an idea to reward a certain style of play with an "exp" like SP payout.
I like the idea to a point - similar to the newbie friendly starter missions, why not help out the first little part of a new players experience by rewarding with SP? Possibly level 1 and 2 missions only... it won't imbalance anything, even botters. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2012.02.06 20:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:Also, if anyone knows anything about business, a new hire is one of your greatest assets. A new person sees things that most long term employees perceive as the norm or have fallen into a routine and just do their tasks like mindless robots. IGÇÖm not saying that every new employee has great ideas, but every so often the company is presented with something that can change their entire business model. On the flip side to that, if you present most long term employees with a change, they shun it as they are afraid of the unknown.
Now apply this to EVE. The new player has a fresh perspective on what they see or how they interact in EVE. When a new player sees things and poses questions on a public forum you sometimes get rubbish and sometimes get little gems. Not everything is a great idea, but not everything is worthless. Some of the old players need to take a step back and broaden their horizons to what can be change whether itGÇÖs construed as good or badGǪ
Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
Go away, you are clueless. Eve has outlasted all other mmorpgs by not pandering to simpletons. |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.02.06 20:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote:Rat Farmer wrote:Also, if anyone knows anything about business, a new hire is one of your greatest assets. A new person sees things that most long term employees perceive as the norm or have fallen into a routine and just do their tasks like mindless robots. IGÇÖm not saying that every new employee has great ideas, but every so often the company is presented with something that can change their entire business model. On the flip side to that, if you present most long term employees with a change, they shun it as they are afraid of the unknown.
Now apply this to EVE. The new player has a fresh perspective on what they see or how they interact in EVE. When a new player sees things and poses questions on a public forum you sometimes get rubbish and sometimes get little gems. Not everything is a great idea, but not everything is worthless. Some of the old players need to take a step back and broaden their horizons to what can be change whether itGÇÖs construed as good or badGǪ
Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Go away, you are clueless. Eve has outlasted all other mmorpgs by not pandering to simpletons.
Good constructive retort from someone that has never heard of Ultima Online (1997) full loot, Ever Quest (1999), Anarchy Online (2001); all still activeGǪ
Get off your elitist high horse. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
2
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Posted - 2012.02.06 20:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote:Go away, you are clueless. Eve has outlasted all other mmorpgs by not pandering to simpletons. Logic is obviously not your forte. But you do get an A+ for being a ****. |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
9
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Posted - 2012.02.06 22:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
I actually like that I donGÇÖt feel obligated to log onto EVE every single day because if I donGÇÖt, somehow I've fallen behind. I like that I decide that I wont play for a couple weeks and not feel like my skill plan is now inferior to others because of my choice to do something other than play EVE.
Granted it is just my opinion of the existing game mechanic but it's something that as a new player and more "casual" player I feel I get to enjoy EVE the same as someone who plays every day.
Thats just how I look at it though... |
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