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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Riddick37
Bladerunner Research and Industries ZADA ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 05:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play. |
Craggus
Brothers of Madness The Aslyum
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 06:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good luck. I have no suggestion or argument, except that this will never happen. |
Riddick37
Bladerunner Research and Industries ZADA ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... |
Craggus
Brothers of Madness The Aslyum
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 07:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now...
Getting something more than ISK and LP won't fix boredom. They would need to rework how missions are done to fix that. |
Ifly Uwalk
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
151
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Posted - 2012.02.05 07:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
You want EXP? gb2wow
Stop poasting.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
315
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Posted - 2012.02.05 07:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote: Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not...
Frequently. Usually in the Skills subforum where it invariably meets a fiery demise.
Linking gameplay to SP is anathema to everything that makes EVE unique. Specifically linking missions to SP is particularly bad in a self-described PvP-driven game. Why, pray tell, should mission runners get something extra and unique for grinding L4s with little to no risk -- to keep them doing it? |
Riddick37
Bladerunner Research and Industries ZADA ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 07:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Craggus wrote:Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Getting something more than ISK and LP won't fix boredom. They would need to rework how missions are done to fix that.
Well its more to the point that i think SP would be more value to people and, it'd help people skill train somewhat faster and spend a month PVPing/ratting/Missioning/Mining With there new ships and test out there new skills quiker... and it wouldnt to much more boring, |
Riddick37
Bladerunner Research and Industries ZADA ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 07:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
End of the day guys its a game and a sugestion... toward the game. really appreciating the comments. but dont tell me or anyone else here to stop posting... Dont read this subject.. if you disagree |
Riddick37
Bladerunner Research and Industries ZADA ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 08:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Riddick37 wrote: Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not...
Frequently. Usually in the Skills subforum where it invariably meets a fiery demise. Linking gameplay to SP is anathema to everything that makes EVE unique. Specifically linking missions to SP is particularly bad in a self-described PvP-driven game. Why, pray tell, should mission runners get something extra and unique for grinding L4s with little to no risk -- to keep them doing it?
Whats stoping a pvper from running missions? I pvp myself and i still have the time to run missions because well i need the isk somehow to pay for lost ships... i also mine if i feel like it... If your pvper that holds Pods for ransom get your isk and have no need to do missions. well not anyone problem but yours.. Everyone can it its availble to everyone and CCP could make a reason to put a risk behind the mission so its not as easy as it looks to complete it....
Even another sugestion came to mind where pvpers kill someone with out an updated Clone get there SP thats lost split amongst there fleet... yes another bad sugestion.. but then your gonna go on about miners.. they sit for hours on end making isk no need to go missioning, again.. missioning is available TO EVERYONE whether you chose to do it or not is your problem...
That is the way i see it.. |
Oryx Lux
The Drones Club
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 08:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
This seems like a bad idea. Why not give miners skill points for mining ore? How about PI people for doing PI? PVPers for killing other players? Belt ratters for belt ratting? Do you see where this is going? EVE has a skill queue for a reason; it's to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
Missions already have substantial rewards in the form of isk, salvage and LP. EVE is not McDonald's. |
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Riddick37
Bladerunner Research and Industries ZADA ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 09:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ofcourse its not a Mc'Donalds more expensive and classy i want to try get most out of it i can.. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 09:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is one of those times when it IS appropriate to tell the OP to 'go back to WoW.
Doing this would destroy Eve. I've got better things to do than farm XP.
Lol I just noticed you spelt 'ridiculous' as 'rEdiculous'. That just about tells me all I need to know about the mind from which this terrible thread sprang forth. |
Amthala
Lapse Of Sanity
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 11:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Don't be a ****... horrible idea |
Frank Millar
The Corporation Incorporated The Revolution.
14
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 11:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Right now, EvE is different from all those other so-called MMO's, because there is no level grind.
Awarding SP for Missions or whatever, would make EvE exactly the same as those other so-called MMO's.
And me having tried LotRO, I'd want to avoid that at all costs. Level Grind is boring as ****, so I honestly don't see how that would solve your problem of boredom.
So basically, you're doing it wrong and EvE might not be for you. WoW, LotRO and all that generic crap is that way. ---> |
Arnold Blackthorne
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 11:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maybe we should have SP for podding the OP instead for even thinking this idea in the first place |
K1RTH G3RS3N
New Eden Trading and Resources
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 11:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Frank Millar wrote:Right now, EvE is different from all those other so-called MMO's, because there is no level grind.
Awarding SP for Missions or whatever, would make EvE exactly the same as those other so-called MMO's.
And me having tried LotRO, I'd want to avoid that at all costs. Level Grind is boring as ****, so I honestly don't see how that would solve your problem of boredom.
So basically, you're doing it wrong and EvE might not be for you. WoW, LotRO and all that generic crap is that way. --->
dont forget the other 20 wow clones for when you get bored of wow. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 11:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Patience is a virtue and we don't need or want any aspect of EVE to be dumbed down. If EVE is boring for you please go and do something else. |
Firebolt145
ghostco.
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 12:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Terrible idea, would turn EVE into a grind. Nty. |
Lemok Sonji
Little Miss Duck
46
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 12:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hmm I thought EvE giving you only moderate ISK and LP from L4s is because they encourage you to do other things than grind missions.
So why asking them to do the opposite?
Skill points are per how old your character is, not how much free time you have to play 15 hours a day. That will make this game utterly silly, finding just a couple of months old characters having tens of millions of skill points.
Not that I complain about having 100 million SP in 2 months and able to max every skills I want, but it will completely kill the "epicness" feel of the game. |
Sir Livingston
Viziam Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 14:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play. Dear OP,
It's not CCP's fault you are bored with EVE, it's your lack of creativity. Missions weren't designed to entertain players for the lifespan of their character. Move on to greater things. EVE......is......a......sandbox. Go play
Explorer's Log an ongoing video log chronicling my adventures as an explorer of New Eden Click to watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/JonnyPew?feature=mhee Join chat channel: Club Deadspace |
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Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 14:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
For the record, I like eve but I'm also confused with the whole skill point thing.
It is pretty daunting as a new person realizing that I pretty much have some skills to train before I can become effective at pvp, pve, industry or trading. I admit that the skill gain mechanic is cool in the way of being able to train offline but what's the motivation to play? If I'm a low skill point toon I'm not really effective at anything. It would be nice to gain skills based on what you do when you're in the eve universe. In the real world, the more you practice the better you get at something but it seems eve rewards you for doing nothing except buying and training skills.
I know, everyone that's been playing for 2 plus years don't like this idea because they have so much time (skill training not real experience) invested in eve.
Everyone that doesn't like constructive criticism says to go play wow, well, at least the wow people are earning their levels, not logging on once every 21 days to train a new skill. but the wow people are considered the care bears, go figure. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 14:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Your idea is not a good one as it would be ruinous to the game mechanics.
If you get extra SP from doing missions then people will flock to missions so that they can grind up faster. This causes several issues: -It pulls people away from the other PVP activities. -It artificially increases the number of higher SP player, thereby depressing the character bazaar -Given the speed at which one can simply get to higher content faster it would devalue the lower ranking equipment in the game which would have a negative impact on the market. -Mission bots would be an even greater problem -Your concept makes no adjustment for attributes, making it a pump for your low attribute settings (not all SP are equal). -It is exploitable by a group of players and could allow for artificial 'super toons'. One guy grabs a bunch of missions in a shuttle and has his friends do them all, he then turns them all in and gets the credit. By your scoring system he could get a Level V skill a day.
You have an idea, a common one, but you don't really have a plan. Many ideas that get posted here need to be looked at in an overall light and many simply don't take in to account the impact on the overall system. Your idea is based on the current trend of 'instant gratification' which in and of itself is fine if the game was designed around it, just like micro-transactions can be fine. Eve was not designed to be that way. Why are my neocom icons so tiny? Oh, you can widen and narrow the bar. Cool.-á |
Ifly Uwalk
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
153
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 15:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Arnold Blackthorne wrote:Maybe we should have SP for podding the OP instead for even thinking this idea in the first place Now this I could agree with! |
Lemok Sonji
Little Miss Duck
47
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 15:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote: Everyone that doesn't like constructive criticism says to go play wow, well, at least the wow people are earning their levels, not logging on once every 21 days to train a new skill. but the wow people are considered the care bears, go figure.
That is the whole point you are missing.
CCP doesn't want EvE to be a grind game like wow (or any other RPG game), where you grind long enough, you get better gear, and you are now "better" and things.
EvE is about skill of the player and the community around him, not of his character. You are encouraged to want to come online to do something while learning to deal with what you have. Not grind another skill, and another, and than be bored and leave because you have 3 characters at 200 million skill points, and nothing to do.
Missions is one of the smaller part of the game. Hell, in a month you can get into a ship and start blowing stuff up in low/null sec. Or within a week start probing stuff in high sec.
People who reached the point of not having something to learn but wait 21 days, are logging in to do other things with friends. Once you can fly a fleet ready ship, you can still log on and do it. You don't have to wait 21 days more until you join the next fleet. Or if you trained a frigate and kill small things in null, you don't stop playing because you are now waiting to skill for a cruiser. You keep blowing things until you can also kill better things.
There is SOO much to do in EvE with or without much skills.
You don't need skills to have fun. If you don't get that, you are in the wrong game (go play swtor instead of wow if you don't like wow ). |
Bibosikus
Inside out. The G0dfathers
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Indirectly, of course, you do benefit sp-wise from missioning. Virtually every lp store sells attribute-enhancing implants which you can purchase using a combination of lp acquired from completed missions plus isk.
Anyone not missioning has to pay pure isk for said implants.
So missioning gets the right, balanced advantage imho.
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lemok Sonji wrote:You don't need skills to have fun.If you don't get that, you are in the wrong game (go play swtor instead of wow if you don't like wow ).
Just to be clear, IGÇÖve been playing for 21 or 22 days. I actually do play the game when real life permits and the people in the Gallente starter corporation are very friendly and give good advice. In my short time here, IGÇÖve already completed the SOE Epic Arc (solo) and knocked out the beginning (level 1) Gallente Epic Arc missions. I also run missions for the SOE both level 1 and 2GÇÖs. I struggle a little on the 2GÇÖs as IGÇÖm only flying a frigate and trying to get all my core skills to at least 4 before I jump into a cruiser.
I read somewhere (I donGÇÖt recall where) that if you were going to train all the skills in EVE that it would take you around 21 years with maximum skill placement or something. 21 years? Really? And thereGÇÖs no way to gain skill other than passively? IGÇÖm not saying spoon feed everyone, but maybe you should get gain a little skill in combat if you are actually spending time PVE or PVPGÇÖing. Maybe you should gain skill if you (online) manufacture or trade in those respective areasGǪ Also, IGÇÖm not stupid, I do realize that you donGÇÖt need to train for 21 years or even 3 months to be effective at doing something, as I stated above, IGÇÖm just skimming the surface and I am able to do lower level content.
Everyone has an opinion, itGÇÖs not that anyone persons is right or wrong, it can just be different from your own. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
It should be two way SP system some skills should be skilled old way and some should be gained with work ie you shoot alot you get bonus 1% tracking or what ever being that achieved thru pve/pvp is not relevant at all.
As long as it is balanced i see no reason to have both more stuff in game the better and believe me when i said that you couldn't fathom the amount of frak i don't give about Wow liners some of you are trowing around.CCP simply can do it better.
I would like to see EXP based system applied on a ship crew as well if there ever gonna be one that is. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:Lemok Sonji wrote:You don't need skills to have fun.If you don't get that, you are in the wrong game (go play swtor instead of wow if you don't like wow ). Just to be clear, IGÇÖve been playing for 21 or 22 days. I actually do play the game when real life permits and the people in the Gallente starter corporation are very friendly and give good advice. In my short time here, IGÇÖve already completed the SOE Epic Arc (solo) and knocked out the beginning (level 1) Gallente Epic Arc missions. I also run missions for the SOE both level 1 and 2GÇÖs. I struggle a little on the 2GÇÖs as IGÇÖm only flying a frigate and trying to get all my core skills to at least 4 before I jump into a cruiser. I read somewhere (I donGÇÖt recall where) that if you were going to train all the skills in EVE that it would take you around 21 years with maximum skill placement or something. 21 years? Really? And thereGÇÖs no way to gain skill other than passively? IGÇÖm not saying spoon feed everyone, but maybe you should get gain a little skill in combat if you are actually spending time PVE or PVPGÇÖing. Maybe you should gain skill if you (online) manufacture or trade in those respective areasGǪ Also, IGÇÖm not stupid, I do realize that you donGÇÖt need to train for 21 years or even 3 months to be effective at doing something, as I stated above, IGÇÖm just skimming the surface and I am able to do lower level content. Everyone has an opinion, itGÇÖs not that anyone persons is right or wrong, it can just be different from your own.
You know, for the new guy, that's an excellent idea. Have specific sp allocation. build a ship, 1000 industry sp. Kill a player, 1000 gunnery or missile sp. Mine something 100,000 v3 of something. more industry. Do so much invention, 1000 science sp. Do missions, get sp towards engineering/ electronics/ spaceship command.
This would actually encourage all players to dive into other core functions and game plays of eve. Awesome idea from some one only playing the game 3 weeks. BTW three week dude, what ever you do, dont train gallente or caldari weapons, minmatar for the win. Yes, I complain about things I don't like. |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
61
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
ahh the old 21 years.
First off, there is NO need to ever train all skills. EVER. A titan pilot doesnt need maxed out industry/science skills. Most science characters for instance (since that is what this toon does) have little need for advanced ship skills. Fly the orca/charon.. check.. ok thats about it for my ship skills really (what i can fly a lot more well.. yes because i have the science skills i need now).
Most of us who start getting up in skill points look and go "ok i dont have a lot more to train) and many stop training to skill up another alt instead on that account for more flexibility.
You can do a lot with low skillpoints, IF you stop looking at it like: i must have xxx before i can have fun. Heck grab a t1 fitted rifter.. go pew pew.. Its that simple. can do it within what.. 2 weeks easily? Sure some things take longer.. you cant just get into invention within 2 weeks.. BUT those things usually requier a TON of more ISK that a normal 2 week char has available. And if you REALLY are impatient, get some plexes, convert to isk, buy a frikkin character on the bazzar. Done.
Your idea is HORRIBLE!!!! i for one play this game.. well not only but one large reason is: i dont have to grind! I HATE grinding. I am married, with my own business. I dont have time to grind like i did in wow when i was in my 20s and hadnt met the most wonderful man in the world to marry. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
[quote=Linda Shadowborn]ahh the old 21 years.
women dont play eve, its all a lie
Yes, I complain about things I don't like. |
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Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
61
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
myFORUMalt alts wrote:[quote=Linda Shadowborn]ahh the old 21 years.
women dont play eve, its all a lie
yes of course.. how silly of me *eyerolls* |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 16:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Linda Shadowborn wrote:ahh the old 21 years.
First off, there is NO need to ever train all skills. EVER. A titan pilot doesnt need maxed out industry/science skills. Most science characters for instance (since that is what this toon does) have little need for advanced ship skills. Fly the orca/charon.. check.. ok thats about it for my ship skills really (what i can fly a lot more well.. yes because i have the science skills i need now).
Most of us who start getting up in skill points look and go "ok i dont have a lot more to train) and many stop training to skill up another alt instead on that account for more flexibility.
You can do a lot with low skillpoints, IF you stop looking at it like: i must have xxx before i can have fun. Heck grab a t1 fitted rifter.. go pew pew.. Its that simple. can do it within what.. 2 weeks easily? Sure some things take longer.. you cant just get into invention within 2 weeks.. BUT those things usually requier a TON of more ISK that a normal 2 week char has available. And if you REALLY are impatient, get some plexes, convert to isk, buy a frikkin character on the bazzar. Done.
Your idea is HORRIBLE!!!! i for one play this game.. well not only but one large reason is: i dont have to grind! I HATE grinding. I am married, with my own business. I dont have time to grind like i did in wow when i was in my 20s and hadnt met the most wonderful man in the world to marry.
See, you're all worked up and my idea is HORRIBLE because it doesn't mimic yours. You donGÇÖt have a lot of time to play or grind and you take advantage of the passive system which is in place, good for you, obviously a change would not benefit your play style.
Not all of us are 21 year old WOW players; IGÇÖm actually an older player that runs the IT function for a pharmaceutical company. So, yes, the passive play style does benefit me as well as I donGÇÖt always have free time to play. My suggestion was to also motivate people that are playing actively. As your own suggestion, anyone can buy PLEX if they are gainfully employed, so whatGÇÖs the need to grind missions for ISK if you can just buy it? I personally donGÇÖt like the idea of purchasing someone elseGÇÖs account or character as you also get their reputation along with their skill points.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
561
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 19:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
If you want to gain exp or whatever you call it go play WoW. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
192
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Biomass yourself. |
Dranchela
Flashpoint Industries The ROC
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play.
No. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
316
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:In the real world, the more you practice the better you get at something but it seems eve rewards you for doing nothing except buying and training skills.
I know, everyone that's been playing for 2 plus years don't like this idea because they have so much time (skill training not real experience) invested in eve.
Here's the problem. EVE is designed around the idea that SP is acquired in a very specific way: by training. The unique selling point of EVE contra other MMOs is that players who grind cannot "get ahead" SP-wise (though they can certainly do themselves favors with regards to ISK). This is linked to the fact that the various activities in the game have a very low barrier to entry: you don't have to have 100mil SP just to do them and in most cases you need far less SP to even perfect said activity (see dramatically diminishing returns and level 5 skill cap).
Having said that, to be any good in a practical way at said activity, you have to actually get out and do it. In fact, an experienced player can perform better than one without experience even with less skill points.
The issues with linking skills to activities is that it immediately makes said activity more valuable than anything else -- and it ends up benefiting old players more than new ones. Link SP to missions? A 100mil SP character can blitz L4s, widening the gap with lower skilled players. On top of that, there is suddenly extensive pressure to do nothing else in order to "keep up". Link SP to pod kills? Constantly pod an alt. Link SP to industry jobs? Bot it, wreaking havoc with mineral prices for legitimate activities.
And before another common trope gets rolled out, no, I probably wouldn't be one of the people "abusing" the new system. But it doesn't matter, because the advantage of the current system is that there is no incentive to abuse it. As soon as you introduce such incentive, abuse will happen.
Rat Farmer wrote:Everyone that doesn't like constructive criticism says to go play wow, well, at least the wow people are earning their levels, not logging on once every 21 days to train a new skill. but the wow people are considered the care bears, go figure.
You know, there have been times when I did only log on to change skills. I had my reasons. Life was too busy, I was out of the country, etc. But why did I keep some connection to EVE? Because I could continue to hold on to at least that one thread. Otherwise I probably would have dropped in and out of the game several times. And that's why I like the system as is. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
You gain experience in this game by playing, you just don't get to see it on the character sheet as some sort of point scoring system. :) Why are my neocom icons so tiny? Oh, you can widen and narrow the bar. Cool.-á |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:You gain experience in this game by playing, you just don't get to see it on the character sheet as some sort of point scoring system. :)
Bingo. The real skills are learnt from playing and learning game mechanics and strategies. You're so hung up on skill points because you haven't played the game long enough and/or you are carebearing muppets with no drive or imagination.
I, for one, hope to be playing Eve in 10 years time. Many of us are in it for the long term. Easy skill points will destroy the longevity of Eve. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:
...well, at least the wow people are earning their levels...
Lul. |
Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 00:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lemok Sonji wrote: CCP doesn't want EvE to be a grind game like wow (or any other RPG game), where you grind long enough, you get better gear, and you are now "better" and things.
EvE is about skill of the player and the community around him, not of his character.
I just loled hard at this one.
Then tell me why when I log in WoW I can just play BGs/arenas for several hours/day without much need of grind, while in EVE I work either for shiny pve ship or pvp "replacement" ones. EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind.
So stop talking this nonsense please.
|
|
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
317
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 00:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're either choosing to grind in EVE or you're doing it wrong, and honestly without more information it's impossible to tell which. |
R0Y4L
Scifried Strategic Military Industries
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 00:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
yeah if you want SP for continuing to do the same thing over and over and over and over again go back to WOW IF-á YOU-á-á DONT-á WANNA-á DIE-á DONT-á FLY-á-á |
Msgerbs
Imperial Assualt Guild
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 02:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Doing missions is not the goal of EVE. Doing missions is income. What you DO with that income is the goal of EVE. Missions are a means to an end, nothing more. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1374
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 02:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:For the record, I like eve but I'm also confused with the whole skill point thing.
It is pretty daunting as a new person realizing that I pretty much have some skills to train before I can become effective at pvp, pve, industry or trading. I admit that the skill gain mechanic is cool in the way of being able to train offline but what's the motivation to play? If I'm a low skill point toon I'm not really effective at anything. It would be nice to gain skills based on what you do when you're in the eve universe. In the real world, the more you practice the better you get at something but it seems eve rewards you for doing nothing except buying and training skills.
I know, everyone that's been playing for 2 plus years don't like this idea because they have so much time (skill training not real experience) invested in eve.
Everyone that doesn't like constructive criticism says to go play wow, well, at least the wow people are earning their levels, not logging on once every 21 days to train a new skill. but the wow people are considered the care bears, go figure.
Takes less than a day to train the skills to be an effective member of a small PvP gang; less than a week to be an effective solo pilot. Maybe 3-5 months to max out your frigate of choice, as in perfect everything that affects that ship. If you want to be really good with bigger ships, of course that takes more time, but after a point (this comes very quickly for most), more SP just means a greater variety of ships you fly well and more expensive poddings.
The WoW players may be earning their levels, but they lose nothing if they die. In EvE you always lose the ship you're flying, usually lose the module drop, and sometimes lose your pod with the implants you wear. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tiger Armani
Mialto Corp The Last Chancers.
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 09:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
You need more experience for keyboard management, propably level 5 with CAPS LOCK management. |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 10:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Well. This is a horrible idea and will never happen, thankfully.
Goonswarm has a one week training plan for ganking high sec miners. 1 week. And you don't even need to leave high sec.
Remap, train cybernetics V, grind your level 4 missions and buy some +5s. See what difference that makes. |
Ryoko Matsu
Community against Justice ROMANIAN-LEGION
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 13:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote: blabla...
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP . . .
You are already getting skillpoints "from" a mission!
...it depends on how long the mission takes you, and what your sp/hour are...
simple as that...
example: 30min lvl4 mission, skill training @ 2000sp/h = 1000sp from a mission *\o/*
but now the best thing is...
...you get the sp-¦s also from watching tv... |
Brynhilda
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 14:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
This would completely break the whole character selling market as anyone could just buy an account, put a bot in it, have them run missions endlessly, put the SP into Titans and sell them for billions of isk.
There are many more ways to make isk rather than running missions and mining. If that's the only way you can make isk, this isn't the game for you. How may I drug you with drugs? |
Bent Barrel
22
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 14:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
NO
reasons were already stated by other folks before me ... |
Spineker
147
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 17:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
OP you can't recommend anything on these forums with the fools that post here. I don't actually want experience but I don't see the need for all the trolls to come out of their doodoo bird shells and pretend Eve can not be improved. Just because it has been broke for 9 years doesn't mean it should remain broke.
Missions need to be completely revamped into a modern style of game play but then the doodoo birds which are Null sec Epeens living in thier moms basement will cry a river of tears. |
|
Spineker
147
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 17:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Msgerbs wrote:Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Doing missions is not the goal of EVE. Doing missions is income. What you DO with that income is the goal of EVE. Missions are a means to an end, nothing more.
Totally absolutely and completely incorrect. It is this attitude that keeps this game broken in many ways. |
Lemok Sonji
Little Miss Duck
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 17:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:Lemok Sonji wrote: CCP doesn't want EvE to be a grind game like wow (or any other RPG game), where you grind long enough, you get better gear, and you are now "better" and things.
EvE is about skill of the player and the community around him, not of his character.
I just loled hard at this one. Then tell me why when I log in WoW I can just play BGs/arenas for several hours/day without much need of grind, while in EVE I work either for shiny pve ship or pvp "replacement" ones. EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind. So stop talking this nonsense please.
If you are grinding ISK for hours to pay for a new ship, you are playing the game like its wow. Which means, you are missing the whole point of the game.
In a few hours you can get enough ISK to buy a new shiny ship. Much less time that it takes you to grind arena points in wow every night for several hours to get your shiny new epic weapon.
Marketing play, PvP, plexing, WHs, industry, incursions, they are all paying a huge sum of ISK if you are doing it right. If you are resorting to RMT/sell GTCs to get a new ship, better go back play arenas it wow.
The whole point of wow is the pursuit for the next epic, next upgrade. EvE is about everything else.
Besides, this is off-topc, as the topic is about SP for missioning / doing other things, which is silly. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
323
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 18:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Spineker wrote:OP you can't recommend anything on these forums with the fools that post here. I don't actually want experience but I don't see the need for all the trolls to come out of their doodoo bird shells and pretend Eve can not be improved. Just because it has been broke for 9 years doesn't mean it should remain broke.
Hey now. I'm all for change. Change is good. Particularly when it's directed in a way that improves the game. My specific critiques in this thread relate to the fact that the specific change suggested in the thread -- introducing SP rewards for missions -- would have a detrimental effect on the game as a whole. The reasons for this are numerous, but are mostly based in the idea that we don't want to encourage an arms race based on a single specific in-game activity, in this case mission running.
Spineker wrote:Missions need to be completely revamped into a modern style of game play
Of course it does. But I'm a bit unclear as to how that relates to the rest of the thread . |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 18:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
I still think it's funny how many people say to go back to WOW or (name random mmo here) because EVE is hardcore and blah, blah, blah.
As I stated earlier, I actually like EVE, I just think that the passive skill point grind is crazy and there will never be a level playing field per se. I paid for 6 months, so IGÇÖll see how I feel when itGÇÖs time for me to re-subscribe, until then IGÇÖll post my thoughts as I feel inclined. So, no, I wonGÇÖt go biomass myself, I wonGÇÖt give you stuff, I wonGÇÖt go hang myself in the closet next to your mother and I wonGÇÖt shut up or play another gameGǪ
That saidGǪ I personally know 5 people that wonGÇÖt even try EVE because they say that they will always be so far behind everyone else in EVE when it comes to skill training. Yes, you can be somewhat productive in 3 weeks; I have but I donGÇÖt think that IGÇÖm anywhere near ready to PVP against another active pilot (IGÇÖm not talking about a miner or hauler) even if they are in a frigate as well if theyGÇÖve been playing a couple of more months or years then me.
The game is what it is, is CCP going to change? Probably not. Does that mean that people are not subscribing because they donGÇÖt like the passive training? Definitely! |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 18:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
Also, if anyone knows anything about business, a new hire is one of your greatest assets. A new person sees things that most long term employees perceive as the norm or have fallen into a routine and just do their tasks like mindless robots. IGÇÖm not saying that every new employee has great ideas, but every so often the company is presented with something that can change their entire business model. On the flip side to that, if you present most long term employees with a change, they shun it as they are afraid of the unknown.
Now apply this to EVE. The new player has a fresh perspective on what they see or how they interact in EVE. When a new player sees things and poses questions on a public forum you sometimes get rubbish and sometimes get little gems. Not everything is a great idea, but not everything is worthless. Some of the old players need to take a step back and broaden their horizons to what can be change whether itGÇÖs construed as good or badGǪ
Anyway, I'm done with this thread. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 19:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
I wish people would respond intelligently to ideas they don't agree with. Some did, and I will continue to read anything they post, because it's actually worth reading. I belive a lot of people are missing the whole point of this thread. It's NOT to destroy their epeens, and come close to their elite 100m SP club... it was an idea to reward a certain style of play with an "exp" like SP payout.
I like the idea to a point - similar to the newbie friendly starter missions, why not help out the first little part of a new players experience by rewarding with SP? Possibly level 1 and 2 missions only... it won't imbalance anything, even botters. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 20:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:Also, if anyone knows anything about business, a new hire is one of your greatest assets. A new person sees things that most long term employees perceive as the norm or have fallen into a routine and just do their tasks like mindless robots. IGÇÖm not saying that every new employee has great ideas, but every so often the company is presented with something that can change their entire business model. On the flip side to that, if you present most long term employees with a change, they shun it as they are afraid of the unknown.
Now apply this to EVE. The new player has a fresh perspective on what they see or how they interact in EVE. When a new player sees things and poses questions on a public forum you sometimes get rubbish and sometimes get little gems. Not everything is a great idea, but not everything is worthless. Some of the old players need to take a step back and broaden their horizons to what can be change whether itGÇÖs construed as good or badGǪ
Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
Go away, you are clueless. Eve has outlasted all other mmorpgs by not pandering to simpletons. |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 20:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote:Rat Farmer wrote:Also, if anyone knows anything about business, a new hire is one of your greatest assets. A new person sees things that most long term employees perceive as the norm or have fallen into a routine and just do their tasks like mindless robots. IGÇÖm not saying that every new employee has great ideas, but every so often the company is presented with something that can change their entire business model. On the flip side to that, if you present most long term employees with a change, they shun it as they are afraid of the unknown.
Now apply this to EVE. The new player has a fresh perspective on what they see or how they interact in EVE. When a new player sees things and poses questions on a public forum you sometimes get rubbish and sometimes get little gems. Not everything is a great idea, but not everything is worthless. Some of the old players need to take a step back and broaden their horizons to what can be change whether itGÇÖs construed as good or badGǪ
Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Go away, you are clueless. Eve has outlasted all other mmorpgs by not pandering to simpletons.
Good constructive retort from someone that has never heard of Ultima Online (1997) full loot, Ever Quest (1999), Anarchy Online (2001); all still activeGǪ
Get off your elitist high horse. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 20:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote:Go away, you are clueless. Eve has outlasted all other mmorpgs by not pandering to simpletons. Logic is obviously not your forte. But you do get an A+ for being a ****. |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 22:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
I actually like that I donGÇÖt feel obligated to log onto EVE every single day because if I donGÇÖt, somehow I've fallen behind. I like that I decide that I wont play for a couple weeks and not feel like my skill plan is now inferior to others because of my choice to do something other than play EVE.
Granted it is just my opinion of the existing game mechanic but it's something that as a new player and more "casual" player I feel I get to enjoy EVE the same as someone who plays every day.
Thats just how I look at it though... |
|
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 01:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ok fine I will seriouspost.
Much of the vitriol on these forums stems from the fact that most of these ideas have been brought up before debated and roundly rejected. In some cases dozens of times.
Despite the bitter tears of epeen nullsec carebear loser veteran players CCP has actually already significantly reduced the new player skill curve. Hey new guy. did you know there used to be a whole set of skills you "needed" to train that didn't add anything gameplay wise? They were called Learning skills. They are gone now, letting you jump right in to training the good stuff. In addition, CCP has added Remaps for new players as well as some new character insta booster thing (I forget what it's called).
No this will not allow you to jump into a Titan in your first 3 months of playing but it has already greatly reduced the initial "I'm useless" phase.
You can quite easily train competitive pvp skills in less than a month (competitve meaning your character's skills will not be the deciding factor in the fight). Yes, this means the ignominy of frigate and cruiser pvp, but we all have to start somewhere.
Anyways, it is a moot point. There is aleady a mechanism in place to do exactly what the OP has suggested, unfortunately. Go, grind Level 4s. Click on "character bazaar" on these very forums. Trade in-game isk for instant gratification. Done. |
Allyia Base
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 03:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
Czeris wrote: Anyways, it is a moot point. There is aleady a mechanism in place to do exactly what the OP has suggested, unfortunately. Go, grind Level 4s. Click on "character bazaar" on these very forums. Trade in-game isk for instant gratification. Done.
Yes, please do this. I have two still up for sale and another listing next week. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1385
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 05:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:I still think it's funny how many people say to go back to WOW or (name random mmo here) because EVE is hardcore and blah, blah, blah.
As I stated earlier, I actually like EVE, I just think that the passive skill point grind is crazy and there will never be a level playing field per se. I paid for 6 months, so IGÇÖll see how I feel when itGÇÖs time for me to re-subscribe, until then IGÇÖll post my thoughts as I feel inclined. So, no, I wonGÇÖt go biomass myself, I wonGÇÖt give you stuff, I wonGÇÖt go hang myself in the closet next to your mother and I wonGÇÖt shut up or play another gameGǪ
Here's how to stop worrying about skills so much. Pick a short term goal (I suggest either a Frigate or a Cruiser[Cruiser's pushing it] and perfect it. I mean everything related to your fit (yes, one or a very small number of fits) to L5 (some stuff can probably slide at 4 [turret specs, the really long gun support skills, AWU, that sort]), and fly it every single day. And lose it. Lose it several times a day. In about 2 months (maybe less), you will have perfect skills for the frigate (and fantastic core and support skills) and you will still be learning things (more slowly now, since you've put all the giant mistakes behind you). While you learn to harness the power of this frigate, you train the next thing (or hop up to BSes for missions/ratting/whatever).
The ideal way to do this is to pick a frigate that's got relatively forgiving fitting requirements so that your first few dozen times around the block are in T1/Low Meta mods and your total fit is ~750k ISK. Then you get someone to sell you a buddy invite (gaining you ~400m) or sell a PLEX, and it's going to take you a LONG time to burn that nest egg.
If you mix up the locations in which you're fighting (one day NPC Null, next Lowsec, next Baiting in HS, etc) you'll get a good taste of the combat mechanics of each area of space as well (so you can decide where you want to live).
Seriously, it takes ~45min of training to have the SP to be a useful member of a small gang (or big fleet), less than a week to have the SP to be a competent soloist, and maybe 2 months to effectively max out a frigate hull.
Just about any subcap can be flown either excellently or perfectly in under a year. The Vet's advantage is a diversity of choices and effective income sources. Vets don't have all that much in direct combat advantage from SP (compared to a focused newbie). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
40
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 06:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:I still think it's funny how many people say to go back to WOW or (name random mmo here) because EVE is hardcore and blah, blah, blah.
As I stated earlier, I actually like EVE, I just think that the passive skill point grind is crazy and there will never be a level playing field per se. I paid for 6 months, so IGÇÖll see how I feel when itGÇÖs time for me to re-subscribe, until then IGÇÖll post my thoughts as I feel inclined. So, no, I wonGÇÖt go biomass myself, I wonGÇÖt give you stuff, I wonGÇÖt go hang myself in the closet next to your mother and I wonGÇÖt shut up or play another gameGǪ
That saidGǪ I personally know 5 people that wonGÇÖt even try EVE because they say that they will always be so far behind everyone else in EVE when it comes to skill training. Yes, you can be somewhat productive in 3 weeks; I have but I donGÇÖt think that IGÇÖm anywhere near ready to PVP against another active pilot (IGÇÖm not talking about a miner or hauler) even if they are in a frigate as well if theyGÇÖve been playing a couple of more months or years then me.
The game is what it is, is CCP going to change? Probably not. Does that mean that people are not subscribing because they donGÇÖt like the passive training? Definitely!
You've acknowledged the fact that you are new to the game, yet you claim to have a better understanding of it than people who have played for years. Do you not see that it's your understanding of the game that might be flawed?
I'll try and address some of the points you've made. You claim that new players are put off by being too far behind older players but this is just a misunderstanding on their part, perpetuated by idiots such as yourself. There is plenty for a new player to do in the couple of months it takes to get ones core skills. After that, a 6 month old player in a frigate is the same as a six year old player in a frigate in terms of skill points. Do you understand that?
What do you think will happen to the longevity and general gameplay of the game if skill points come easy and everyone is flying super caps? You've failed to look at the consequences of your suggestion and are just crying like a child in a toy shop unable to buy all the toys at once. Eve isn't about instant gratification yet you want to make it that way.
You've also forced me to play the WoW card. As someone who was dedicated to the game (top 100 world raiding guild, rank 14 pvp etc) I can tell you that making the game more accessible killed it. It belittled the efforts of the hardcore players and drove them away from the game. Without the hardcore players the game started to die. Why? Because in Mmos it's the players that create a large part of the culture and meaning to the game. This is even more the case with Eve.
It's not only about attracting subscribers for CCP. It's about the quality of the subscribers and their effect on the game long term. Wow refugees such as yourself (no doubt you never played wow in vanilla or you would know the damage your attitude can cause to an MMO) have yet to understand how Eve works and still have the affront to try to mould the game into what you naively want it to be. This is why you've been met with disgust from many in this thread.
I suggest you get to actually know the game before you come onto the forums raging that you have 7 days left for frigate V. Come back in a year and post. If you still feel this way I'll be astonished but at least you'll be in a better position to talk about it.
As it is, you're a first year Arts student trying to argue with an army of Noam Chomskys. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1385
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 06:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote: As it is, you're a first year Arts student trying to argue with an army of Noam Chomskys.
Best line I've read in a while. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 13:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote:
As it is, you're a first year Arts student trying to argue with an army of Noam Chomskys.
You bring up some valid points but your delivery leaves much to be desired. I have never spoke down to you or anyone else on these forums, so why must you try and belittle me because I may not have had the same grasp of the game that you desire to me to have and that I have an opinion of my progress thus far.
LetGÇÖs stop bringing up all other MMOs as we are talking about EVE and only EVE. As both RubyPorto and you stated/directed, I am building my core skills and I plan on maximizing my frigate skills. I currently donGÇÖt have destroyer or cruiser trained as IGÇÖm only focusing on flying a frigate at this point. What I did was go through the description of all the ships (frigates) attributes for Gallente and decided on flying a Daredevil; this choice made me deviate a little from my original plan as I needed to train Minmatar frigate to 3 (but I donGÇÖt think that they are wasted points).
I have a serious question for you though. How often do you actually fly a frigate? Is this what you mission in to make your ISK? Is the frigate your hull of choice when PVPing?
The reason I ask is that I donGÇÖt see me accumulating that much ISK banging out level 1 and 2 missions for the next 6 months to purchase anything of real value. IGÇÖm lucky if I make 10 million in the span of 4 hours; no, I havenGÇÖt taken salvage, loot or loyalty points into account, IGÇÖm just basing my numbers on ISK from bounties and mission payout. Personally, IGÇÖm not the scamming type, so IGÇÖm not going to go beg for ISK or try selling 1 shuttle for 3.5 billion ISK. And IGÇÖm trying to optimize my skill points, so I have nothing in trade or industry other than what was required or the tutorial missions.
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1388
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 17:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
Rat Farmer wrote:CausticS0da wrote:
As it is, you're a first year Arts student trying to argue with an army of Noam Chomskys.
You bring up some valid points but your delivery leaves much to be desired. I have never spoke down to you or anyone else on these forums, so why must you try and belittle me because I may not have had the same grasp of the game that you desire me to have and that I have an opinion of my progress thus far. LetGÇÖs stop bringing up all other MMOs as we are talking about EVE and only EVE. As both RubyPorto and you stated/directed, I am building my core skills and I plan on maximizing my frigate skills. I currently donGÇÖt have destroyer or cruiser trained as IGÇÖm only focusing on flying a frigate at this point. What I did was go through the description of all the ships (frigates) attributes for Gallente and decided on flying a Daredevil; this choice made me deviate a little from my original plan as I needed to train Minmatar frigate to 3 (but I donGÇÖt think that they are wasted points). I have a serious question for you though. How often do you actually fly a frigate? Is this what you mission in to make your ISK? Is the frigate your hull of choice when PVPing? The reason I ask is that I donGÇÖt see me accumulating that much ISK banging out level 1 and 2 missions for the next 6 months to purchase anything of real value. IGÇÖm lucky if I make 10 million in the span of 4 hours; no, I havenGÇÖt taken salvage, loot or loyalty points into account, IGÇÖm just basing my numbers on ISK from bounties and mission payout. Personally, IGÇÖm not the scamming type, so IGÇÖm not going to go beg for ISK or try selling 1 shuttle for 3.5 billion ISK. And IGÇÖm trying to optimize my skill points, so I have nothing in trade or industry other than what was required for the tutorial missions.
Learn to fly an Ishkur first. Then a Tyrannis. The daredevil is very expensive(~100m for the hull [you'd also want both racial frig skills at 5]).
I suggest you sell 1 plex, buy ~50-100 T1/LowMeta fit Ishkurs and learn to fly it that way(each should cost ~1m Isk). Your googlefu should bring up some guides to fitting it and some guides to flying it. Then once you've spent a few weeks losing all of them (and probably getting a few kills; one T2 gun looted from a wreck will pay for your hull and fit, so these kills will possibly bring you overall profit), you can look at your fit and skills to see what T2 mods would give you the biggest bang for your buck.
To make a significant amount of isk in a short amount of time through PvE activities, you could put an alt in a SB into faction warfare or scam or trade, otherwise you'd need a larger ship. That's why I suggest new players take a plex and blow it on dirt cheap frigates.
It's not going to be easy, but it's probably the cheapest and most effective way to learn to PvP. As for your hangup about scamming; this is EvE, get over yourself. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 19:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
My reply was lost to the ether so I'll just say that I do fly frigates. Pretty much all high sp, active, pvp players love to fly frigates.
If you want to make money in your frigate, do Angel Sound arc. You seem clever enough and I'm sure you'll come up with ideas to make money once you've completed that.
Don't take the tone of some of the replies in this thread personally. Let me know in a year's time if you still endorse OPs ideas. |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 19:58:00 -
[69] - Quote
I'm gussing that the original poster has given up on this thread... |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
32
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 21:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
pretty much one of the main selling points about EVE is there is no exp grind. Skill Points are what they are.
The only grind in EVE is for isk and there are many many ways to make isk in EVE.
if you know what you want and are focused you can generally have the skills needed to fly a ship by the time you can afford to fly it. Keep in mind the first rule of EVE. Do not fly what you can not afford to lose. by the time you have enough isk that losing a ship is not a burden on your wallet you can have all the skills needed to fly that ship well. don't race through the skills to get the minimum needed for a shiny battleship. you will just lose it.
There is far more to flying a battleship in EVE than the minimum skill requirements. learn the game mechanics, perfect your skills with low class ships. frigates are a lot of fun to PVP in and are low cost to replace. Don't PVP in a battleship unless you can afford to replace it every time you undock in it.
EVE has a steep learning curve, but once you get the game, and learn the mechanics that make it work, skill points do not mean so much any more. I have played for over 2 years and still have not maxed all my skills for flying a battleship. but I have been flying battleships for 1 1/2 years. the more I play the game, the better I get. Only with experience and the knowledge of what modules to use in what situations, and how to best use those modules, will you really benefit from the skill points giving you the most out of those modules.
Many new players come to EVE saying this is bull***. but EVE is the only PVP focused MMO that is still going strong past its 8th year. most MMO's drop off and die after 4-5 years at the most. EVE's continued success is an indisputable testament to the fact they they pretty much got it right. Don't come here in all your noobness and tell us it needs to be changed. Look what happened to SWG when the developers listened to the complaints of the new players rather than the feed back of the veterans. |
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Nex apparatu5
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
165
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 21:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
Across my characters, i can (and have) flown almost every ship class, and I can say the most fun I've had in eve was in not a titan or supercarrier, but in an assault frig. |
Ivar Avar
The Fallen Brigade
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 23:08:00 -
[72] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Msgerbs wrote:Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Doing missions is not the goal of EVE. Doing missions is income. What you DO with that income is the goal of EVE. Missions are a means to an end, nothing more. Totally absolutely and completely incorrect. It is this attitude that keeps this game broken in many ways.
So the goal of EVE is to do missions? I'm glad you aren't in charge of game development. Not sure what you mean about modernizing missions but it had better not be "kill 10 guristas" or something WoWish. The best part of EVE is that there is no grind unless you create one for yourself. Imaginiation > Repetition. The OP's idea is absolutely terrible and I am glad to see only a couple people in this thread couldn't see that. You don't need max skills to be effective in EVE at any task. All you need to do to compete at low skill points is specialize and use what you got. If that fails make a friend or something. |
Aedeline Belacqua
1st MC
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 00:21:00 -
[73] - Quote
Hello,
I'm a quite new player in EVE too, and the idea isn't totally bad, but it would need some restriction.
As a new player we need to skill quickly to the core and the gunnery/missiles (depending on what we wanna fly) skill, and then the tanking skill. We also need to be able to quickly earn some ISK, not billions but enough to afford loosing several frigs a day. Wich can be done (to fly a drake with all support skill to at least 4, some tackling frig and some little usefull thing like salvage or cloak) in 4 month according to my skill plan, using +3 implants and a remap. It's few, and it's also a lot. It's few for all the vets as they have many month behind them, BUT for a brand new player, it seems it's unreachable and that's not even the best thing possible, it's just a starting point. Myself i don't feel it as impossible as i got a good team to learn me, but for loads of new players, that won't be as lucky as me it must be hard and prevent them from resubscribing.
What would be a good compromise, would be to have a mechanic to increase skillpoint (withouth replacing the passive learning) until we reach a deadline like 10M skillpoint. It would help the begginner, he would perhaps focus on it to build his skillplan, but it wouldn't give him overpowered skills, he would just be able to fly something with good skill in a decent amount of time and he would feel more considered and would more likely continue to play EVE
Some have talked about the character bazaar, if i was running missions, i wouldn't earn enough ISK to buy a toon, before my drake skillplan is over, so is that really interesting? And would it really worth it? I would really feel inconfortable if i were playing on a character that isn't mine, have a bad reputation, and haven't the skin i want to have
(about the option to buy a plex and sell it, i won't even think of it as using my credit card to buy virtual currencies make me sick)
Aedeline |
Cambarus
Socially Awkward Pancreas
123
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 00:48:00 -
[74] - Quote
Aedeline Belacqua wrote: Wich can be done (to fly a drake with all support skill to at least 4, some tackling frig and some little usefull thing like salvage or cloak) in 4 month according to my skill plan, using +3 implants and a remap. It's few, and it's also a lot. It's few for all the vets as they have many month behind them, BUT for a brand new player, it seems it's unreachable and that's not even the best thing possible, it's just a starting point. Myself i don't feel it as impossible as i got a good team to learn me, but for loads of new players, that won't be as lucky as me it must be hard and prevent them from resubscribing.
A fair while back a bunch of people from failheap made accounts on Serenity, the chinese eve server. They started up their new characters, and on literally the first day of their new accounts, they started ganking people: http://killboard.nl/en/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2231
Fast forward about 2 weeks, and they killed a carrier, using 2 week old nubs in frigates: http://killboard.nl/en/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=29803
People assume you need 20million SP to be able to do anything in eve, and this is provably false. Granted, it takes experience to do well in pvp, but in eve especially numbers play a much larger role than actual skill levels. New players don't need more SP, they just need to go out and pvp more. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1390
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 01:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Aedeline Belacqua wrote: Wich can be done (to fly a drake with all support skill to at least 4, some tackling frig and some little usefull thing like salvage or cloak) in 4 month according to my skill plan, using +3 implants and a remap. It's few, and it's also a lot. It's few for all the vets as they have many month behind them, BUT for a brand new player, it seems it's unreachable and that's not even the best thing possible, it's just a starting point. Myself i don't feel it as impossible as i got a good team to learn me, but for loads of new players, that won't be as lucky as me it must be hard and prevent them from resubscribing.
A fair while back a bunch of people from failheap made accounts on Serenity, the chinese eve server. They started up their new characters, and on literally the first day of their new accounts, they started ganking people: http://killboard.nl/en/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2231Fast forward about 2 weeks, and they killed a carrier, using 2 week old nubs in frigates: http://killboard.nl/en/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=29803People assume you need 20million SP to be able to do anything in eve, and this is provably false. Granted, it takes experience to do well in pvp, but in eve especially numbers play a much larger role than actual skill levels. New players don't need more SP, they just need to go out and pvp more.
And the ISK you can get from starting a 21d trial from someone who'll split the isk from the PLEX they get (I offer a 90/10 split, with me getting the 10) will keep you rolling in cheap frigs for a LONG time. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Bent Barrel
23
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 07:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
Spineker wrote:OP you can't recommend anything on these forums with the fools that post here. I don't actually want experience but I don't see the need for all the trolls to come out of their doodoo bird shells and pretend Eve can not be improved. Just because it has been broke for 9 years doesn't mean it should remain broke.
Missions need to be completely revamped into a modern style of game play but then the doodoo birds which are Null sec Epeens living in thier moms basement will cry a river of tears.
and you omitted the link to your great mission revamp idea just by mistake ...
you are missing a crucial point here ... the conservatives and the radicals need to mix in a proper ratio to not break the game. going from extreme to extreme does ruin things very fast ... |
Bent Barrel
23
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 07:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Rat Farmer wrote:I still think it's funny how many people say to go back to WOW or (name random mmo here) because EVE is hardcore and blah, blah, blah.
As I stated earlier, I actually like EVE, I just think that the passive skill point grind is crazy and there will never be a level playing field per se. I paid for 6 months, so IGÇÖll see how I feel when itGÇÖs time for me to re-subscribe, until then IGÇÖll post my thoughts as I feel inclined. So, no, I wonGÇÖt go biomass myself, I wonGÇÖt give you stuff, I wonGÇÖt go hang myself in the closet next to your mother and I wonGÇÖt shut up or play another gameGǪ
Here's how to stop worrying about skills so much. Pick a short term goal (I suggest either a Frigate or a Cruiser[Cruiser's pushing it] and perfect it. I mean everything related to your fit (yes, one or a very small number of fits) to L5 (some stuff can probably slide at 4 [turret specs, the really long gun support skills, AWU, that sort]), and fly it every single day. And lose it. Lose it several times a day. In about 2 months (maybe less), you will have perfect skills for the frigate (and fantastic core and support skills) and you will still be learning things (more slowly now, since you've put all the giant mistakes behind you). While you learn to harness the power of this frigate, you train the next thing (or hop up to BSes for missions/ratting/whatever). The ideal way to do this is to pick a frigate that's got relatively forgiving fitting requirements so that your first few dozen times around the block are in T1/Low Meta mods and your total fit is ~750k ISK. Then you get someone to sell you a buddy invite (gaining you ~400m) or sell a PLEX, and it's going to take you a LONG time to burn that nest egg. If you mix up the locations in which you're fighting (one day NPC Null, next Lowsec, next Baiting in HS, etc) you'll get a good taste of the combat mechanics of each area of space as well (so you can decide where you want to live). Seriously, it takes ~45min of training to have the SP to be a useful member of a small gang (or big fleet), less than a week to have the SP to be a competent soloist, and maybe 2 months to effectively max out a frigate hull. Just about any subcap can be flown either excellently or perfectly in under a year. The Vet's advantage is a diversity of choices and effective income sources. Vets don't have all that much in direct combat advantage from SP (compared to a focused newbie).
THIS...
took me 5 years of previous eve subscription to realise this simple truth ... now I am in my 3 month on this one and having much more fun then in the previous 5 years.
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1394
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 08:17:00 -
[78] - Quote
Spineker wrote:OP you can't recommend anything on these forums with the fools that post here. I don't actually want experience but I don't see the need for all the trolls to come out of their doodoo bird shells and pretend Eve can not be improved. Just because it has been broke for 9 years doesn't mean it should remain broke.
Missions need to be completely revamped into a modern style of game play but then the doodoo birds which are Null sec Epeens living in thier moms basement will cry a river of tears.
Revamping missions would be a fantastic idea (this coming from someone you might classify as a "Null sec Epeen") as they're fantastically boring. The sticking point in any suggestion is and always been "How?"
From the ground up, we have (generally) 3 areas of space, ideally organized thusly: Hisec: Low Effort, Low Reward Lowsec: Moderate Effort, Moderate Reward Nullsec: High Effort, High Reward
(Please note, I use the word "Effort" not "Risk" because in all areas there are risks, they're just of differing natures and require differing amounts of effort to mitigate)
Right now the landscape looks more like Hisec: Low Effort, High Reward Lowsec: Moderate Effort, Moderate Reward Nullsec: High Effort, High Reward
So there's a problem, and any revamping of missions in Hisec would need to address that problem. So, whoops that would be the dreaded nerf word. Thus starts the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the mourners of missionbear.
Remember, not all changes to EvE will be to your benefit (I've been on the receiving end of quite a few). Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
28
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 08:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
Changing missions is not related to SP gain imo.
I also do not think there is a need to *change* missions, only a need to continue to introduce new content that makes missions less important.
Since 2007 when I started, anomolies, wormholes, exploration content and incursions have been added, and all of these have reduced the importance of missions, and thats the process that needs to continue.
For those that want to gain SP by doing missions, here is the solution.
1 - do missions. 2 - save money from missions. 3 - sell character 4 - buy new character with old character + mission money, gaining SP.
If you have a character worth 4bil, and you save 4bil, you can make quite a jump (enough such that tidying up the new character is not a problem).
|
Callista Nueva
Geminous inc Payment Required
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 12:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
In all honesty i have played wow, istaria and various other so-called MMO's and EVE online is a game i love as you dont just grind to get everything You play it in whatever way you want, you could just simply mine, belt run, mission run, PvP, Hell or join a null sec alliance and get involved ina massive war which you may not understand just for the thought of killing other in-game players whom also know the risks, if you're bored of playing Eve go null sec and go war it out!
The reason the skill queue is so brilliant is that it brings players to wait for stronger equipment, stronger, bigger ships or even upgraded technology, But the thing is granted some skills take more than a Day or even amonth (regaurding to larger capital based ships) but through this you learn that things take time, EVE is not designed for impatient players, hell i have to wait 39D just for a proteus i couldnt care about the wait as in 2D i get a RattleSnake and i get to test it out, its the long/short wait then heading out and testing your grande new ship to its limit's or be a BOSS and do lvl 1's in it >:O
In all honesty its your choice personally i would leave EVE and i know a lot more players would as well if EVE gave SP Awards.
Its a great idea only its not what EVE needs, its one of the few things that makes EVE unique and fun, i would sure as hell not want to have a SP addition to skills and stuff. Are we losing our title as Demi-God? what if their will be an upgrade? such as a D.E.M.I-GOD V1.2?-á -Scourged through the years .. Revived through fire, born through machinery, killed through silence. |
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Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone Ironworks Coalition
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 12:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
Good troll, OP. 8/10 for tears harvested thus far. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 16:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
Versuvius Marii wrote:Good troll, OP. 8/10 for tears harvested thus far. +1 douche for non-content |
Darkness Descend
Eternal Phoenix Rises Dark Phoenix Rising.
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 17:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
lol. just... lol. Farmers would become ++ber skilled, and PVP'ers would stay as it was normally + If you want to get EXP, go to another game please.
One of the best things about eve is that you dont have to be online 23/7 to become better.
-1 from me. |
UAB
Kandor Fleet Systems
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 20:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:Lemok Sonji wrote: CCP doesn't want EvE to be a grind game like wow (or any other RPG game), where you grind long enough, you get better gear, and you are now "better" and things.
EvE is about skill of the player and the community around him, not of his character.
I just loled hard at this one. Then tell me why when I log in WoW I can just play BGs/arenas for several hours/day without much need of grind, while in EVE I work either for shiny pve ship or pvp "replacement" ones. EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind. So stop talking this nonsense please. Now I have to answer to this. I was borex with eve once, was only logging for 10 minutes every 2 days and still making 1bil per month per char doing pI and trading. My point is, u dont need allmost any skills to make iskies in eve. And that way you can buy chat fast enough with skills you want. I see no need to add exp for certain activies. There are tons of guides and spreadshies on internet to help you to be effcient! AND like someone told real experience comes with learning tactis in eve (I know, lost billions last month learning wh zurvival basics:-)
sorry for mistakes, writing from phone:-D |
Eve Is Real
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 21:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
That wouldn't be fair mate Experience and reason for CSM7 |
Kira Deschain
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 22:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
I have typed a response to this thread at least 5 times already and every time I cancel the post.... I guess because I feel like I'm beating a dead horse by saying this is a bad idea. But you asked for comments so...
I have to agree that making a change like this for missions only would be extremely unfair. CCP would have to add skill point rewards for doing just about anything in the game in order to make it fair. Skill points per rat killed, complex completed, roid mined, etc., etc. That would turn EVE into every other MMO ever made, and that would really, really suck. I fail to see the benefit in ruining one of the more unique aspects of EVE. |
Borun Tal
Cubicle Warriors from 'merica
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 23:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
I approve of this idea! I'd love to be able to use PayPal to put down a couple hundred bucks for a high-sec Titan with an OMGWTFBOOM DD to kill some frigate rats in .8 space...
(Cuz, ya know, them frigate rats in .8 are fast and TOUGH!) |
Borun Tal
Cubicle Warriors from 'merica
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 23:24:00 -
[88] - Quote
Versuvius Marii wrote:Good troll, OP. 8/10 for tears harvested thus far.
... and no, that wasn't a good troll. Back to Troll Detection Class for you! |
GreenSeed
17
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 23:35:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ifly Uwalk wrote:You want EXP? gb2wow
excuse me sir, we dont use the "W" word here.
Tekashi Kovacs wrote: Then tell me why when I log in WoW I can just play BGs/arenas for several hours/day without much need of grind, while in EVE I work either for shiny pve ship or pvp "replacement" ones. EVE is actually biggest grinding game I've ever played, and I played basically every known MMO during last 10 years. If you dont RMT/sell GTCs (both equally lame and counts as cheating imo), then nothing comes close to EVEs grind.
then please leave.
theres only one thing that makes eve be what it is, and that is.... well, what it is! you're asking to change the one thing that keeps the OLD school eve players playing this game.
and when i say "playing this game" i should say "making this game". because if you take out the vets that manage corps, alliances, the mayor ship building ventures or hell, even jita ganking... the game is dead, theres nothing in it that will keep anyone playing. oh, and btw, none of the ppl that do the things i mentioned do it for "profit" be it ingame or outside, they do it because its fun.
if you came to EVE expecting "content" as in "stupid **** made by so called 'game devs', that youre supposed to do untill new content is released" then myfriend you are in the wrong place. go away, and nothing of value will be lost.
this is a sand box, the players are the content. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
52
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 03:35:00 -
[90] - Quote
the oldschool superbillion SP club wont ever let this pass ... they want to keep their advantage as it is.
In a way its annoying that your activity level in the game doesent help your skill points gathering in anyway. |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1400
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 04:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:the oldschool superbillion SP club wont ever let this pass ... they want to keep their advantage as it is.
In a way its annoying that your activity level in the game doesent help your skill points gathering in anyway.
In a way it's awesome that poopsockers don't get some massive advantage over everyone else.
EDIT: Sorry, I meant "In Every Way" Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes. |
Steven Fonulique
The Phantom Regiment The House Of Cards.
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 10:32:00 -
[92] - Quote
I've been wanting to post something here since yesterday when I first read found this topic just haven't had the time to put a post together that didn't make me sound like narrow minded nay sayer regarding this particular suggestion, anyway here goes.
One of the basic mechanics used in any rpg is the concept of making your character grow more powerful (evolve) over time. In eve this evolution mechanic is designed in such a way that is requires very very little interaction between the player and the actual game, it's a simple case of deciding what skill you want to train and dropping it at the top of your skill queue and the rest happens automatically. As with all rpgs there are factors that affect the speed at which this evolution occurs but at the end of the day there is a limit to how many of these skill points can be obtain over a given period of time. The Limit for eve is 2700 skill points per hour which translates to 64800 per day.
Now it seems to me one of the intentions behind the OP's suggestion is to introduce a way to increase this limit above the current maximum based on the amount of time a player spends interacting with the game in a specific way. The only real effect this will have is the number of skill points obtainable on a given day will be 64800 from passive training + whatever is achievable by running missions. If ccp were to agree that the current maximum daily limit is too low they could quite easily just increase the passive hourly gain from 2700 to whatever they feel is more appropriate. Now lets assume ccp know what they are doing and indeed want 64800 to be the maximum achievable in a given day then in order to allow for sp rewards from missions or any other ingame activity they would have to reduce the passive sp gains accordingly. Then it needs to be decided if they want the maximum to be achieved by spending all 23.5 hours the server is online by performing the chosen activity or if they want to allow players to gain the skill points in only a few hours and cap it off at the chosen limit.
At the end of the day each active eve account has the same potential for gaining skill points as every other (old and new alike) and no matter what system is used there will always be a limit to how many skill points one can obtain in any given period of time. The idea of changing the current system to negatively affect people who spend less time per day/week playing eve and create the illusion of benefitting those who play more doesn't really seem to me like it will improve the game in any way. |
Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone Ironworks Coalition
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 11:19:00 -
[93] - Quote
Malamber wrote:Versuvius Marii wrote:Good troll, OP. 8/10 for tears harvested thus far. +1 douche for non-content In that case, have a +1 yourself.
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Atsushi Aishai
No Point of Dispute Point of Dispute
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 11:31:00 -
[94] - Quote
First of all. My drones can take out a frigate. And my avatar is a bit older then 1 month.
So I will see it as a terrible thing if you get SP from missions. What you earn from playing is that the other pilots will recognise you. Even if you are not able to fly a navy something with T2 fit, you are still able to do something with others, like pvp og null-sec mining.
Also EVE is not about grinding. But taking your time. Yes. It takes sometime to be able to fly the ship you want to fly. But even a decent fit is great if used the right way. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
66
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 11:33:00 -
[95] - Quote
I actually like the idear but only to a limit.
I think having this for a limit of 5m skill point and mabe only by doing the tutorial missions. It would help new players get going a bit faster, and it would also make new players actually do the tutorials. The Turotial mission covers most aspects in the game now, so maby boost this skill in the categori they do missions instead of a skillbook.
Beside that i agree with most in this topic, this is not like other MMOs. Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
309
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 13:44:00 -
[96] - Quote
HARE-BRAINED and USELESS idea.
This will be SOOOOO abused.
Skillpoints have gotten enough LOVE. Folks don't even have to deal with Learning Skills anymore.
One huge gignormous NO to this. Kill it at once.
And boredom relief as an excuse for this ? Oh Lord this is so wrong..................... OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
309
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 13:46:00 -
[97] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:the oldschool superbillion SP club wont ever let this pass ... they want to keep their advantage as it is.
In a way its annoying that your activity level in the game doesent help your skill points gathering in anyway.
And the fact skills train while logged off unlike OTHER games is not enough ??? Puh-leaze........ OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
309
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 13:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
Steven Fonulique wrote:I've been wanting to post something here since yesterday when I first read found this topic just haven't had the time to put a post together that didn't make me sound like narrow minded nay sayer regarding this particular suggestion, anyway here goes.
One of the basic mechanics used in any rpg is the concept of making your character grow more powerful (evolve) over time. In eve this evolution mechanic is designed in such a way that is requires very very little interaction between the player and the actual game, it's a simple case of deciding what skill you want to train and dropping it at the top of your skill queue and the rest happens automatically. As with all rpgs there are factors that affect the speed at which this evolution occurs but at the end of the day there is a limit to how many of these skill points can be obtain over a given period of time. The Limit for eve is 2700 skill points per hour which translates to 64800 per day.
Now it seems to me one of the intentions behind the OP's suggestion is to introduce a way to increase this limit above the current maximum based on the amount of time a player spends interacting with the game in a specific way. The only real effect this will have is the number of skill points obtainable on a given day will be 64800 from passive training + whatever is achievable by running missions. If ccp were to agree that the current maximum daily limit is too low they could quite easily just increase the passive hourly gain from 2700 to whatever they feel is more appropriate. Now lets assume ccp know what they are doing and indeed want 64800 to be the maximum achievable in a given day then in order to allow for sp rewards from missions or any other ingame activity they would have to reduce the passive sp gains accordingly. Then it needs to be decided if they want the maximum to be achieved by spending all 23.5 hours the server is online by performing the chosen activity or if they want to allow players to gain the skill points in only a few hours and cap it off at the chosen limit.
At the end of the day each active eve account has the same potential for gaining skill points as every other (old and new alike) and no matter what system is used there will always be a limit to how many skill points one can obtain in any given period of time. The idea of changing the current system to negatively affect people who spend less time per day/week playing eve and create the illusion of benefitting those who play more doesn't really seem to me like it will improve the game in any way.
You put WAY too much thought into this nonsense. Just had to say : tl;dr.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 15:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
Darkness Descend wrote:lol. just... lol. Farmers would become ++ber skilled, and PVP'ers would stay as it was normally + If you want to get EXP, go to another game please.
Not that it would matter, because in pvp, common sense + pvp reflexes >> skill points.
Not that I agree with the OP, I ran missions a lot when I actively played and was rewarded enough for it.
-1 too. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 16:12:00 -
[100] - Quote
Steven Fonulique wrote:I've been wanting to post something here since yesterday when I first read found this topic just haven't had the time to put a post together that didn't make me sound like narrow minded nay sayer regarding this particular suggestion, anyway here goes.
One of the basic mechanics used in any rpg is the concept of making your character grow more powerful (evolve) over time. In eve this evolution mechanic is designed in such a way that is requires very very little interaction between the player and the actual game, it's a simple case of deciding what skill you want to train and dropping it at the top of your skill queue and the rest happens automatically. As with all rpgs there are factors that affect the speed at which this evolution occurs but at the end of the day there is a limit to how many of these skill points can be obtain over a given period of time. The Limit for eve is 2700 skill points per hour which translates to 64800 per day.
Now it seems to me one of the intentions behind the OP's suggestion is to introduce a way to increase this limit above the current maximum based on the amount of time a player spends interacting with the game in a specific way. The only real effect this will have is the number of skill points obtainable on a given day will be 64800 from passive training + whatever is achievable by running missions. If ccp were to agree that the current maximum daily limit is too low they could quite easily just increase the passive hourly gain from 2700 to whatever they feel is more appropriate. Now lets assume ccp know what they are doing and indeed want 64800 to be the maximum achievable in a given day then in order to allow for sp rewards from missions or any other ingame activity they would have to reduce the passive sp gains accordingly. Then it needs to be decided if they want the maximum to be achieved by spending all 23.5 hours the server is online by performing the chosen activity or if they want to allow players to gain the skill points in only a few hours and cap it off at the chosen limit.
At the end of the day each active eve account has the same potential for gaining skill points as every other (old and new alike) and no matter what system is used there will always be a limit to how many skill points one can obtain in any given period of time. The idea of changing the current system to negatively affect people who spend less time per day/week playing eve and create the illusion of benefitting those who play more doesn't really seem to me like it will improve the game in any way. +1 because I agree with basis - but - as with Ynot Eyob and someone else (sorry, can't remember your name!), I think this would be awesome IF LIMITED TO NEW PLAYERS. Isn't the point of new players to prolong the games life? They'll learn soon enough not to expect "free" skill points... but the boost to the fun factor would help retain some I think.
Versuvius Marii wrote:In that case, have a +1 yourself. The difference is that I actually try and contribute. Your moronic "contributions" really don't count. |
|
Drew Solaert
University of Caille Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 15:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
Simply terrible.
Don't post again.
Seriously everyone would just bot the hell out of courier missions as they slept. |
SpaceSquirrels
261
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Do it for taking some objectives or space in pvp (0.0 and FW) to be distributed amongst contributing parties before even think of SP from missions lol.
You can afk missions for Christ sake. |
Fedimart
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 04:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
Let me think... Umm No and No... Did I say No? |
Yahrr
The Tuskers
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 15:26:00 -
[104] - Quote
Go back to w... wait, don't we still need a fix for low sec? Have them earn tiny amounts of skillpoints by killing rats in low sec belts, awarded by Concord and we soon have more targets than we have scramming points! |
Fedimart
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 16:27:00 -
[105] - Quote
I sure hope CCP doesn't do anything stupid to break the basic concepts of the game. Things like training skills over time and a market that doesn't require spending real money need to stay! I agree about lowsec needing something to bring it more life. I don't think even skill points would lure hard core Carebears to PVP. I've seen incursion runners refuse to make one jump thought lowsec in cheap T2 fitted battleships even with friendly scouts on the gates and no other incursions going on. |
Nechradile
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 22:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Please tell me your trolling. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:11:00 -
[107] - Quote
terrible |
Vixorz
Cabronazos
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:10:00 -
[108] - Quote
Yahrr wrote:Go back to w... wait, don't we still need a fix for low sec? Have them earn tiny amounts of skillpoints by killing rats in low sec belts, awarded by Concord and we soon have more targets than we have scramming points!
I like that idea :) |
McRoll
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 21:13:00 -
[109] - Quote
Guys, you know how best to react to **** proposals like these?
Simply don't post, let the thread die. Has been discussed millions of times already. Won't happen and it is good that way.
(I know, I know, I posted as well but somebody has to tell) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2920
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 22:07:00 -
[110] - Quote
Yahrr wrote:Go back to w... wait, don't we still need a fix for low sec? Have them earn tiny amounts of skillpoints by killing rats in low sec belts, awarded by Concord and we soon have more targets than we have scramming points!
Closely followed by endless complaints that players are "punished" for wanting to get the SP/hr they "need" in lo-sec. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
stup idity
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 11:27:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kira Deschain wrote:.. beating a dead horse ...
is still better than beating a living one, because that would be cruel. Rather beat your slaves, they probably deserve it.
Also I demand SP for forum posting, so all us forum alts can get our skills up. You know... grammar, orthography, trolling...
I reign supreme. |
Amee Lee
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 21:20:00 -
[112] - Quote
To the Original Poster:
I couldn't agree with you more. I tried eve once. Quit because I felt like I was at too much of a disadvantage.
I am trying eve again, and the disadvantage still hurts and the whole making & losing ISK seems quite pointless.
Right now, I intend to give eve one last chance. I'm training for Logistics. I won't be playing for the next 40 days while I'm training for it. If being a logistics pilot doesn't get me into some profitable fleets doing L5s, Incursions, or WHs, then I'm done with eve forever. I'll either try to sell my account for real world money, or just suicide the character.
The thing is, I don't think I'd feel that way if PVE rewarded SP as the OP suggests. Right now, "playing" feels quite pointless, but it wouldn't if there were a SP reward.
Oh well. It'll probably be healthier for me in the long run not to waste my time on this game. |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
135
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:15:00 -
[113] - Quote
Amee Lee wrote:To the Original Poster:
I couldn't agree with you more. I tried eve once. Quit because I felt like I was at too much of a disadvantage.
I am trying eve again, and the disadvantage still hurts and the whole making & losing ISK seems quite pointless.
Right now, I intend to give eve one last chance. I'm training for Logistics. I won't be playing for the next 40 days while I'm training for it. If being a logistics pilot doesn't get me into some profitable fleets doing L5s, Incursions, or WHs, then I'm done with eve forever. I'll either try to sell my account for real world money, or just suicide the character.
The thing is, I don't think I'd feel that way if PVE rewarded SP as the OP suggests. Right now, "playing" feels quite pointless, but it wouldn't if there were a SP reward.
Oh well. It'll probably be healthier for me in the long run not to waste my time on this game.
So you are going to train up while not playing and expect to get fleets even though you have no idea what you are doing? Good luck with that snowflake.
The journey is the reward. If you can't see that perhaps it's time to return to the elves.
|
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
231
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
Amee Lee wrote:To the Original Poster:
I couldn't agree with you more. I tried eve once. Quit because I felt like I was at too much of a disadvantage.
I am trying eve again, and the disadvantage still hurts and the whole making & losing ISK seems quite pointless.
Right now, I intend to give eve one last chance. I'm training for Logistics. I won't be playing for the next 40 days while I'm training for it. If being a logistics pilot doesn't get me into some profitable fleets doing L5s, Incursions, or WHs, then I'm done with eve forever. I'll either try to sell my account for real world money, or just suicide the character.
The thing is, I don't think I'd feel that way if PVE rewarded SP as the OP suggests. Right now, "playing" feels quite pointless, but it wouldn't if there were a SP reward.
Oh well. It'll probably be healthier for me in the long run not to waste my time on this game.
sweet necro full of tears |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:51:00 -
[115] - Quote
Amee Lee wrote:To the Original Poster:
I couldn't agree with you more. I tried eve once. Quit because I felt like I was at too much of a disadvantage.
I am trying eve again, and the disadvantage still hurts and the whole making & losing ISK seems quite pointless.
Right now, I intend to give eve one last chance. I'm training for Logistics. I won't be playing for the next 40 days while I'm training for it. If being a logistics pilot doesn't get me into some profitable fleets doing L5s, Incursions, or WHs, then I'm done with eve forever. I'll either try to sell my account for real world money, or just suicide the character.
The thing is, I don't think I'd feel that way if PVE rewarded SP as the OP suggests. Right now, "playing" feels quite pointless, but it wouldn't if there were a SP reward.
Oh well. It'll probably be healthier for me in the long run not to waste my time on this game. why would you necro such a stupid thread!? i'm almost crying right now.... |
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1477
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 23:59:00 -
[116] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Amee Lee wrote:To the Original Poster:
I couldn't agree with you more. I tried eve once. Quit because I felt like I was at too much of a disadvantage.
I am trying eve again, and the disadvantage still hurts and the whole making & losing ISK seems quite pointless.
Right now, I intend to give eve one last chance. I'm training for Logistics. I won't be playing for the next 40 days while I'm training for it. If being a logistics pilot doesn't get me into some profitable fleets doing L5s, Incursions, or WHs, then I'm done with eve forever. I'll either try to sell my account for real world money, or just suicide the character.
The thing is, I don't think I'd feel that way if PVE rewarded SP as the OP suggests. Right now, "playing" feels quite pointless, but it wouldn't if there were a SP reward.
Oh well. It'll probably be healthier for me in the long run not to waste my time on this game. why would you necro such a stupid thread!? i'm almost crying right now....
To let us drink the sour nectar of necrotic grapes.
@Amee Lee: I don't think you understand what this game is about. (HINT: Newbie players don't need a large income, cause the ships they tend to fly are cheap [if they're moderately intelligent]) Single-Shard, Player DrivenSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Coolsmoke
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 01:13:00 -
[117] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Amee Lee wrote:To the Original Poster:
I couldn't agree with you more. I tried eve once. Quit because I felt like I was at too much of a disadvantage.
I am trying eve again, and the disadvantage still hurts and the whole making & losing ISK seems quite pointless.
Right now, I intend to give eve one last chance. I'm training for Logistics. I won't be playing for the next 40 days while I'm training for it. If being a logistics pilot doesn't get me into some profitable fleets doing L5s, Incursions, or WHs, then I'm done with eve forever. I'll either try to sell my account for real world money, or just suicide the character.
The thing is, I don't think I'd feel that way if PVE rewarded SP as the OP suggests. Right now, "playing" feels quite pointless, but it wouldn't if there were a SP reward.
Oh well. It'll probably be healthier for me in the long run not to waste my time on this game. So you are going to train up while not playing and expect to get fleets even though you have no idea what you are doing? .. The journey is the reward. If you can't see that perhaps it's time to return to the elves.
QFT.
Eve is not, and never has been, for the faint-hearted.
There is no shortcut. There is no "easy way". You learn this game, almost as you do real life (ooh!)
Eve is, quite simply, the most challenging, frustrating, complex and downright NASTY MMORPG there is.
Love it or hate it, that is Eve.
|
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame Flaming Nebula
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:21:00 -
[118] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now...
i feel it's a long shot and certainly will not pass / approved / will be trolled / what ever ... but i congratulate you for trying and hopping!
totally support any idea of extra skillpoints, because ccp keeps adding new skills with the years pass, and new players have more and more things to train.
some of them end up being useless with with time, and people waste some time training for things that will be nerfed and obsolete ...
|
Sid Hudgens
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
The market has taken care of this already:
missions -> isk -> character bazaar "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
This post has been brought to you by an NPC corp alt. |
Sid Hudgens
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:28:00 -
[120] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: why would you necro such a stupid thread!? i'm almost crying right now....
Dammit I didn't notice the the dates on the OP before replying... oh well... "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
This post has been brought to you by an NPC corp alt. |
|
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1478
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:47:00 -
[121] - Quote
Katy Ling wrote:Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... i feel it's a long shot and certainly will not pass / approved / will be trolled / what ever ... but i congratulate you for trying and hopping! totally support any idea of extra skillpoints, because ccp keeps adding new skills with the years pass, and new players have more and more things to train. some of them end up being useless with with time, and people waste some time training for things that will be nerfed and obsolete ...
So you're saying that New Players have more options like it's a bad thing? Huh? As for nerfed things, nerfs are a risk you take when following FotM; sorry if that burned you. As for useless, what commonly available skill has absolutely no use? (Whether or not you *make* use of your skills is up to you. For instance, I have a ton of mining SP that I don't use at all, but I don't complain about it).
More importantly, why are your tits sharp? Single-Shard, Player DrivenSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Zanza Mechonis
Vulkan Innovations
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 13:19:00 -
[122] - Quote
You can get faster skill points through missioning. Just buy the implants with LP. (The advantage of EVE is that people with a lot of time to spend have no "ability-advantage" compared to people with little time. Only advantages they get is experience with game mechanics, isk, and possibly LP, killmails, epic ores, or the chance to see that pretty titan blow up... Also more social contacts in-game. |
Herr Ronin
Malum Crusis
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:12:00 -
[123] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play.
Just putting this out there, You are a Idiot.
Go back to your DeathKnight and raid some Panda's. Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
|
Gibbeous Moon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 07:23:00 -
[124] - Quote
If Eve was all about Experience Points gained from mashing rats or doing the same mission fifty times (how many times do we need to kill the same Heiress?) then one fundamental change is going to happen to the game.
For example I could spend my time, as I do, poring over spreadsheets and maps trying to improve my position. I may not be out killing rats or earning XP but I am still contributing to EVE.
look further at applications such as Eve HQ, EFT, the industry applications, the trade apps, Aura thats' on my phone. Would any of these have been built if the developers were out grinding? I expect that other MMOs will have some similar apps by the player communities but how many of those have the quality and depth as these provide? These developers have used their non-grind time to make great things.
In the course of next week I am planning on moving my market alt into, starting from scratch, LoSec with 100 Rifters and see what I can do in a month. One doesn't need XPs in Eve. |
Zarere
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 09:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Dear OP, i have two words for you:
**** off |
Iron Civire
Brothers At Arms Hades.
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 10:06:00 -
[126] - Quote
Gotta <3 those ppl who think missioning is the only way to play EvE.
EvE is hard, you have to remember this. |
Niko Takahashi
United Starbase Systems
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 10:32:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ifly Uwalk wrote:You want EXP? gb2wow
Stop poasting.
While I agree this is really getting old.
|
Boz Wel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:04:00 -
[128] - Quote
If you want to level faster, take advantage of the free market in EVE and save up your ISKs to buy a higher SP character. |
Signal11th
478
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:11:00 -
[129] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play.
This happens and the day after EVE dies, in fact you can almost see Hilmar switching the lights off with a sad look on his face. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:06:00 -
[130] - Quote
Imo just sell SP for cash... $1 for 1000 SP, *kaching* all proceeds go towards Soundwave's retirement fund. |
|
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Exhale.
242
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
I read the EVE forums and have therefor come across some of the dumbest **** on the internet. But this....WOW....
W. I. E. O. D. V. R. E. E. S. A . R. T.
Yes, it needed to be said vertically. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 03:19:00 -
[132] - Quote
You say EVE doesent have "level grind" .... Are you blind ? ... EVE has a grind that last years ... just to get on the same "support skills + ships mandatory skills" line as the older players.
When you think about it ... This is worse in many ways. |
Malamber
Lightning Squad
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 14:50:00 -
[133] - Quote
To be one of the cool kids, you have to say "badpoast", "gbtWoW", "Ur an idiot" to every new post that rehashes an exsisting idea that has been shot down before. People are so caught up in cool new ways to snipe newbies, that they skim posts and assume that because all the other cool kids are bashing it, that the post deserves it without reading the thread.
To those people - grow up, and learn to think for yourselves. Please.
I personally agree with SOME of this idea, and not with other aspects. I can't articulate like some of the other good posters, because I don't have the experience in-game to comment on some of the more telling points. But... I also see the logic in newer players not wanting to grind through the "lower levels". As a newbie, you are going to want to grind - this is all new, and exciting. And you get nothing FOR that grinding. I think if newer characters saw early progress - even knowing it won't last - they may just stick around to learn the intricasies of the douche population, and decide intelligently if they can hack that. After all, in a PVP game it should be learning to deal with the people not the game itself that determines if a person wants to stick around.
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Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:22:00 -
[134] - Quote
Can we let this die please?
Every new arrival wants to plop the template for their Skinner Box game on EVE. Won't happen. Ever. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
191
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:57:00 -
[135] - Quote
The reason that we flame every noobiot that starts this thread isn't JUST that we are bittervets.
Mainly, it's that this is a bad idea. No matter how many times you propose it, it is still bad.
I'll try to stay away from gb2wow, but really, if this progression style doesn't suit you, then this is not the game for you. SP are fundamentally vital to the unique nature of EVE, it forces people to take a long-term view, and this lets EVE avoid a bunch of the things people don't like about other MMOs. When you remove the "kill for experience" setup, you free people from the necessity of questing/missioning/grinding to stay competitive. Is there a grind? Yes, but you can do that same grind while you mission, mine, haul, trade, research, copy, troll, scam, FW, PVP, hotdrop, afk-cloaky-camp, explore, ninja salvage, or forum warrior.
As soon as you institute action->sp, you take that freedom away. |
Arc Typ
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:57:00 -
[136] - Quote
I absolutely love the idea. I'm a new player and I would love a way to earn some skill points to help make myself more powerful and create more options for my character.
Although, the character bazaar is an abstract way of turning missions into SP, and is probably more efficient in regards to time per SP earned. |
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1485
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 01:13:00 -
[137] - Quote
Arc Typ wrote:I absolutely love the idea. I'm a new player and I would love a way to earn some skill points to help make myself more powerful and create more options for my character.
Although, the character bazaar is an abstract way of turning missions into SP, and is probably more efficient in regards to time per SP earned.
What activities can you do at high SP that you can't do now? Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
stoicfaux
1046
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 01:35:00 -
[138] - Quote
Looks like the Faction Warfare overhaul is the answer to the OP's proposal: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28659
Instead of free skill points, FW can get you cheaper LP items (skill requirements are very low for faction items,) cheaper implants, better isk for your LP, etc.. Never mind the exciting PvP necessary for taking, holding and upgrading systems for even more bonuses.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian Pinked
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 01:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
reduce it to tenths of a skillpoint and it might be better. I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 04:24:00 -
[140] - Quote
well you may trust in stupidity the rest of us do not. |
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Koritougamaw
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 08:32:00 -
[141] - Quote
NO.
Riddick37 wrote: And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
LOL
|
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 08:46:00 -
[142] - Quote
NO |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 11:14:00 -
[143] - Quote
This is a Terrible idea, and one that never be implemented. Because giving SP as mission rewards will create even more of an incentive for Mission-Bots. Think about it. Bot runs missions 23/7, and very quickly builds up a vast amount of SP on top of the ISK pile they are creating, enabling the owner of the account to make even more illegal ISK by selling the character for huge ISK and huge RMT. Because it is so profitable to Bot missions, Botting programs/macros will get more sophitisticated, becoming even more difficult to spot. End result: Game ruined.
Seriously, don't do this. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 12:55:00 -
[144] - Quote
This is the worst idea ever written on these forums.
I hope you feel bad for what you've done. |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 19:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
So many straw men in this thread
EVE is a veteran heavy game but remember that when you fly a Rifter with decent skills the other pilot may have 100 mil SP but they very well may not be directed at Rifters or weapons and modules that Rifters commonly use.
My Large Railgun Spec V is of no use when I'm flying a Cormorant with T2 blasters.
Edit: No, SP for missions is stupid. Play the game don't grind it. |
Ymmi Stenson
Aquila Crysaetos
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 12:35:00 -
[146] - Quote
Hell no. |
The Cake
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 21:06:00 -
[147] - Quote
OP, why? If you want to catch up to vets it's already easier.
In the character bazaar you can buy a year old character for 10Bil. That's about 18-20m skillpoints or 500isk per skp.
An hour of lvl 4 missions nets from 12m-60m depending on ships, missions, standings, location & skill. Doing the math that's anywhere from 24000 to 120,000 skp per hour of grinding.
Just glancing at the char bazaar I see one guy is selling a 33m skp industrial char for 8 Bil min bid. Do the math on that grind. If you want to grind skp then there's already a mechanic for you to do that. (242.2 isk per skp or approximately 50,000 to around 250,000 skp per hour) |
Katalci
Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 23:27:00 -
[148] - Quote
No. Not now, not ever. |
Jakob Anzomi
Anzomi Enterprise
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 23:58:00 -
[149] - Quote
Katalci wrote:No. Not now, not ever.
So, you are saying, there's a chance?
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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 00:09:00 -
[150] - Quote
Jakob Anzomi wrote:Katalci wrote:No. Not now, not ever. So, you are saying, there's a chance?
No. Never there will be anything resembling a chance that this will be acceptable. |
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Sunviking
The Shining Knights
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 06:51:00 -
[151] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:This is a Terrible idea, and one that never be implemented. Because giving SP as mission rewards will create even more of an incentive for Mission-Bots. Think about it. Bot runs missions 23/7, and very quickly builds up a vast amount of SP on top of the ISK pile they are creating, enabling the owner of the account to make even more illegal ISK by selling the character for huge ISK and huge RMT. Because it is so profitable to Bot missions, Botting programs/macros will get more sophitisticated, becoming even more difficult to spot. End result: Game ruined.
Seriously, don't do this.
I just thought I should say this again. |
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1493
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 06:47:00 -
[152] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:Jakob Anzomi wrote:Katalci wrote:No. Not now, not ever. So, you are saying, there's a chance? No. Never there will be anything resembling a chance that this will be acceptable.
I think he was trying for a movie reference.
And failing. Tragically, utterly failing. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Relient Tolemus
Fist of Eargon The Jagged Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:40:00 -
[153] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:Craggus wrote:Riddick37 wrote:One can only try. CCP doesnt have to do it like that but with in reason of something like that.. CCP needs to give something other then just ISK and LP To work for... its starting become abit boring now... Getting something more than ISK and LP won't fix boredom. They would need to rework how missions are done to fix that. Well its more to the point that i think SP would be more value to people and, it'd help people skill train somewhat faster and spend a month PVPing/ratting/Missioning/Mining With there new ships and test out there new skills quiker... and it wouldnt to much more boring,
No. It would "be of more value" to people who do missions. What about Miners, Traders, Pirates, Low Sec and Null sec folks, what about wormhole corps and pretty much anyone else who doesn't do missions? Before you post such things, please take a look around you and consider everyone else. This is not WoW and there is more to do in this game than just missions.
And as for the boring part, I'll assume you only do missions. If you try to play eve like any other MMO you will find it boring eventually, just like any other MMO. Difference is, if you get bored in Eve go do something else, Pvp, Mine, Trade, start a damn corp or go explore. If you still find eve boring then this just isn't the game for you. It's also important to remember that this is a signature. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:48:00 -
[154] - Quote
OP, your suggestion is awful, point of Eve skill system is thats there no grind. Your suggestion will just make it mindless grind (and what about other avenues of making ISK, ratting, null plexing/incursions/WHs, how they fit into your picture? Should tehy give SP too?). For mindless grind look into other MMOs available on the market. This game is different, and thats reason many of us play it. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
452
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 12:25:00 -
[155] - Quote
Guys guys I keep doing the same thing over and over again and now i'm bored so here's an idea to not make my thing less boring but give it rewards that will break this game so I can move onto other games and repeat the cycle anew! |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
599
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 14:10:00 -
[156] - Quote
Relient Tolemus wrote:
No. It would "be of more value" to people who do missions. What about Miners, Traders, Pirates, Low Sec and Null sec folks, what about wormhole corps and pretty much anyone else who doesn't do missions? Before you post such things, please take a look around you and consider everyone else. This is not WoW and there is more to do in this game than just missions.
And as for the boring part, I'll assume you only do missions. If you try to play eve like any other MMO you will find it boring eventually, just like any other MMO. Difference is, if you get bored in Eve go do something else, Pvp, Mine, Trade, start a damn corp or go explore. If you still find eve boring then this just isn't the game for you.
Why would you necro this horrible thread?
|
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
265
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 14:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
Relient Tolemus wrote:Rise zombie thread and eat the brains of your visitors!
what's wrong with you? did you not get enough attention as a child?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Zicon Shak'ra
Vacuo Anomalia
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 17:31:00 -
[158] - Quote
Bad idea is bad. There are relatively few things in the game that you cannot do at least decently within two months.
Things You Can Do Decently Well: - Missions - Exploration - Ratting - Frigate/Cruiser PVP - Trading - Mining - Scouting - Planetary Interaction - T1/T2 Manufacturing - Invention - Moon mining - Booster production - Salvaging - Piracy - Scamming - Can Flipping - Factional Warfare
Things You Cannot Do Decently Well: - Wormholes - Capital Ships - Battlecruiser/Battleship PVP - T3/Capital Manufacturing - Incursions
Please, tell me more about how long you have to wait in order to do fun things. |
Malgalad
Phoenix Legion Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 18:19:00 -
[159] - Quote
Riddick37 wrote:After playing Eve for awhile and other games Eve has stood out with its Skill train way... other games you kill something you get EXP ((experience points)) and that allows skills to level, here yah just wait... could it get anymore boring? Yes Mine? PVE? PVP? but there is a line where Making Isk and losing isk gets boring... How about work for something worth more.... something we all want.. SKILL POINTS
Angents reward Loyalty points some dont, couldnt CCP make ones the reward Skill points? not rediculous amounts but a reasnoble amount. like
Level 1 missions Range From 0-100 SP Level 2 Missions Range From 101-200SP Level 3 Missions Range From 201-300SP Level 4 Missions Range From 301-400SP and Level 5 Missions Range From 401-500SP
Im not sure if someone has tried to sugest and idea like this before or not... this would Promote missions alot more... added we get abit of ISK as well with the Reward... And even have a choice to have a LP reward OR SP Reward..
I know i would be doing Missions that rewarded like that, Instead of just waiting 30+days with lvl 4 Inplants to train a skill and it wouldnt detour new gamers from playing this game if they found out there was also a quick way to train skills...
CCP you guys would be making a killing off this game cause for some reason i love it i have 4 accounts on here of my own.. and im slowly getting bored of the game because im sick of making isk and losing it.... waiting to long to try out a new mod or ship cause i have to wait almost 2-3 months to fly it properly... If anyone else can sugest/argue to my idea go ahead.. end of the day its just a sugestion to Promote missioning and game play.
NO! I like eve cause it doesn't have the grind, i can do a mission or RvB and not have to worry that i could be getting that ship or mod that bit quicker if i sat there doing missions non-stop. Eve is different from other games as it has a skill queue and no way to get more skill points from other in game activity's.
you got it a lot better now that it was, with no learning skills and remaps.
and if you're getting bored cus you're sick of making isk and losing it then i can only guess you pvp a lot, so fly something cheaper, skill points ain't going to help there.
|
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
197
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 19:26:00 -
[160] - Quote
Sure!
...if you treat your actual playing skills as skill points.
Trust me, once you get efficient hotkey mapping V, Correct target prioritization IV and Mission Memorization IV, your missions will go much faster.
If you have a 2nd monitor, I'd suggest getting "Youtube Video distraction resistance" to at LEAST rank III In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
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Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
271
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 22:35:00 -
[161] - Quote
Holy thread necro Batman! |
BlackPyroStorm
Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 04:15:00 -
[162] - Quote
Patience young grass hopper |
Ayiana Sive
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:08:00 -
[163] - Quote
No. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 13:05:00 -
[164] - Quote
Maybe we can let this thread die now... there will be no SP reward for missions :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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stoicfaux
1327
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 13:53:00 -
[165] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Maybe we can let this thread die now... there will be no SP reward for missions :) Your lips words say "no", but your eyes accountants say "yes"...
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
268
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:07:00 -
[166] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maybe we can let this thread die now... there will be no SP reward for missions :) Your lips words say "no", but your eyes accountants say "yes"... you are a bad person.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
532
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:10:00 -
[167] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maybe we can let this thread die now... there will be no SP reward for missions :) Your lips words say "no", but your eyes accountants say "yes"... you are a bad personposter.
CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:59:00 -
[168] - Quote
@OP
ekhm ekhm... mi mi mi mi mi...... ok, here it goes:
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
kdog666
Orbital Construction and Demolition
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:10:00 -
[169] - Quote
I feel sorry for this guy... 9 pages of people telling him how much of a blithering idiot he is/was. @OP I am sure it seemed like a good idea in your head at the time you thought of it, but let's face it, doing missions is all about going afk and watching my little pony on your 52" LED SmartTV.
C'mon guys, let's all band together and donate a single isk to help this guy along. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
605
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:10:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: you are a bad personposter.
one of the best posts I've seen in 4 years of eve-o |
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Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
273
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:14:00 -
[171] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:CCP Affinity wrote: you are a bad personposter.
one of the best posts I've seen in 4 years of eve-o +1 tbh |
Pipa Porto
548
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:27:00 -
[172] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maybe we can let this thread die now... there will be no SP reward for missions :) Your lips words say "no", but your eyes accountants say "yes"... you are a bad personposter.
Dev Troll of my Heart. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
KillaGouge
Methodical Prostitution The Methodical Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:59:00 -
[173] - Quote
Why not bring back the old method of character creation? Pick your school and specialty and start with some decent skills in the area you want to participate in. |
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